Infusions should also be purchased with currencies instead of only being a rare drop

[Fuchslein.8639]

23 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

I am on the phone, I couldnt really hover over the profile name

You can also Just Go into youre settings under ignore User.  Makes this Forum a Lot  more chill.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Ultramex.1506]

Pfft, no matter what Anet do, there are gonna be complaints:

-Guaranteed infusion = more eyesore shiny flashy players = gw2 become a health hazard (I've given up on "reduce player effects" option, its a lost technology to Anet apparently)

-Ridiculous currency amount because infusions are rare and expensive = people whine about having to grind in an MMO

[Hawken.7932]

Come on, no.  The last thing that the game needs is more glowy, sparkly infusions. 

[firedragon.8953]

I'll be honest, I didn't read everything.

But infusions already are purchasable with currency...
Gold.
🤔

[IndigoSundown.5419]

There are two basic types of reward systems under discussion here.

 

1. Serendipity (one gets a drop via RNG)

PROS

* A lot of people like the thrill of anticipation before every chance

* The more rare the drop, the greater the drop's value (this value could be gold, prestige or personal satisfaction

CONS

* You may never get that drop (aka "RNG Hates Me Syndrome")

* Even if you get do get it, the time frame to obtain could be lengthy

 

2. Aggregate (each participation accumulates a currency, which eventually allows you to purchase the desired item)

PROS

* Anyone who wants it can get it

* The time required to get X is a known quantity (it may still be long, but it is not open-ended)

CONS

* The drop's value is only personal satisfaction.  Once anyone who wants X can get it, the prestige of having it tanks.  Further, ANet tends to make such items account bound to encourage participation in the content, so there is no gold value.

* The anticipation tends to get put off until one gets the final piece of currency needed to get X.

 

If you look at the pros and cons for each, they're pretty much mirror opposites.

 

A common complaint about GW2 over the years has been that the game feels unrewarding.  Every time these complaints accumulate, ANet throws in an event that drops greater amounts of salvage bait and other materials.  However, the complaints keep coming back because the game's reward system lacks excitement.  RNG drops provide that excitement.

 

So, will ANet keep the few RNG drops the game has?  Likely.  It's in their interest to cater to as many different wants as possible.  Be thankful they allow you to purchase infusions via currency at all -- if they made the ultra-rare drops account bound, that would go away.  However, since it would also remove the desire on the part of some players to get those drops to sell them, that's not likely.

 

Is it "wrong" to ask?  Of course not!  Are you likely to get what you ask for in this case?  I don't know, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 😉

 

[Labjax.2465]

3 hours ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

There are two basic types of reward systems under discussion here.

 

1. Serendipity (one gets a drop via RNG)

PROS

* A lot of people like the thrill of anticipation before every chance

* The more rare the drop, the greater the drop's value (this value could be gold, prestige or personal satisfaction

CONS

* You may never get that drop (aka "RNG Hates Me Syndrome")

* Even if you get do get it, the time frame to obtain could be lengthy

 

2. Aggregate (each participation accumulates a currency, which eventually allows you to purchase the desired item)

PROS

* Anyone who wants it can get it

* The time required to get X is a known quantity (it may still be long, but it is not open-ended)

CONS

* The drop's value is only personal satisfaction.  Once anyone who wants X can get it, the prestige of having it tanks.  Further, ANet tends to make such items account bound to encourage participation in the content, so there is no gold value.

* The anticipation tends to get put off until one gets the final piece of currency needed to get X.

 

If you look at the pros and cons for each, they're pretty much mirror opposites.

 

A common complaint about GW2 over the years has been that the game feels unrewarding.  Every time these complaints accumulate, ANet throws in an event that drops greater amounts of salvage bait and other materials.  However, the complaints keep coming back because the game's reward system lacks excitement.  RNG drops provide that excitement.

 

So, will ANet keep the few RNG drops the game has?  Likely.  It's in their interest to cater to as many different wants as possible.  Be thankful they allow you to purchase infusions via currency at all -- if they made the ultra-rare drops account bound, that would go away.  However, since it would also remove the desire on the part of some players to get those drops to sell them, that's not likely.

 

Is it "wrong" to ask?  Of course not!  Are you likely to get what you ask for in this case?  I don't know, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 😉

 

I was kind of with you until you said the RNG drops are catering to excitement. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons for complaints about this game's reward system is that the RNG drops worth any kind of excitement are so rare, you could go years without ever seeing one, if you ever see one at all. So 99% of what you experience is getting the same basic stuff you salvage and/or sell, every single time. It's consistent at least in that you can save up and get stuff, but that's not exactly "exciting."

I also think another problem of the RNG drops system is that because everything revolves around gold (to make gems to gold sales profitable for anet) some of the most "exciting" drops boil down to "you have a chance of looting a bunch of gold all at once," which takes away from some of the specialness of it, since that's already 99% of what you're doing, you just got something that can speed up your gold gain.

Mind you, this is not me saying we need more account bound drops. I don't have a strong take on what would make the game feel rewarding (it might require dismantling the gold/gems connection, which will never happen). I'm just disagreeing on reasons for why it doesn't feel rewarding enough.

[Fuchslein.8639]

It's crazy that No one is talking about the black Market. Even when you Farm this insane amount of Money over time, it can Take ages to get the actuall Thing save over the Trading post. But normaly you need WAY more gold then These lousy 10k in the end when you don't want to wait even longer. And then you need to Trust people AND anet that this is all Safe or of you loose all in the end.

 

Rare Drops are okay for me, but make them so that there is No need for a freaking out-game Exchange. People pay insane amounts of gold/Money for this because there is No other way around then Just "don't do it". And when "Just don't do it" is the way, why are These infus even exist?

[Killerblade.5612]

3 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

It's crazy that No one is talking about the black Market. Even when you Farm this insane amount of Money over time, it can Take ages to get the actuall Thing save over the Trading post. But normaly you need WAY more gold then These lousy 10k in the end when you don't want to wait even longer. And then you need to Trust people AND anet that this is all Safe or of you loose all in the end.

 

Rare Drops are okay for me, but make them so that there is No need for a freaking out-game Exchange. People pay insane amounts of gold/Money for this because there is No other way around then Just "don't do it". And when "Just don't do it" is the way, why are These infus even exist?

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but the 10k restriction on the auction house isnt the only reason why GW2 players use a trading reddit/discord over the auction house. Even if you increased the possible sell amount to idk 50.000gold and every rare item could fall into the 1 copper to 50.000g category, people would still be enticed not to pay thousands of golds just to sell this rare item on the market and instead pay a middle man from a trading discord a much smaller fee to safely transfer the item and payment. This already happens with items far below the 9.999g benchmark with legendaries and infusions that dont exceed the 10k price being sold at 90-80% of their market value


I also on this note want to emphasize, that cosmetic infusions are an absolutely optional item. I dont see why arenanet would ever rework how some rare infusions drop by giving them guaranteed by the few players that want these that much. Ontop of this cosmetic infusions are generally seen as a bad thing by the community with most atrocious characters shown often using multiple cosmetic infusions. I dont think adding even more access to cosmetic infusions will increase the visual fantasy of gw2 at all, infusions are a status symbol. You dont use chak infusion or aurelium infusion because they look good and you wont find characters that are build around them. You use them because having them means you potentially have thousands of golds equipped. Just like how many people keep the skins of legendary weapons on sets that really dont fit the legendary weapon

[Fuchslein.8639]

4 minutes ago, Killerblade.5612 said:

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but the 10k restriction on the auction house isnt the only reason why GW2 players use a trading reddit/discord over the auction house. Even if you increased the possible sell amount to idk 50.000gold and every rare item could fall into the 1 copper to 50.000g category, people would still be enticed not to pay thousands of golds just to sell this rare item on the market and instead pay a middle man from a trading discord a much smaller fee to safely transfer the item and payment. This already happens with items far below the 9.999g benchmark with legendaries and infusions that dont exceed the 10k price being sold at 90-80% of their market value


I also on this note want to emphasize, that cosmetic infusions are an absolutely optional item. I dont see why arenanet would ever rework how some rare infusions drop by giving them guaranteed by the few players that want these that much. Ontop of this cosmetic infusions are generally seen as a bad thing by the community with most atrocious characters shown often using multiple cosmetic infusions. I dont think adding even more access to cosmetic infusions will increase the visual fantasy of gw2 at all, infusions are a status symbol. You dont use chak infusion or aurelium infusion because they look good and you wont find characters that are build around them. You use them because having them means you potentially have thousands of golds equipped. Just like how many people keep the skins of legendary weapons on sets that really dont fit the legendary weapon

I wasn't talking about raising the 10k Limit. And the rest is just youre opinion so pls Refrain from saying "the Community".

[Debesyla.7102]

I agree - we should be able to get infusions for 1000 legendary insights or 100 gifts of battle.

(I am joking, of course, but imagine if it came to be - people would be furious that they are "forced" to play the game to get the stuff.)

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.
Regards.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 9/8/2022 at 3:01 AM, andreiblue.8231 said:

The perfect example is the imperial everbloom infusion. It is a rare drop from CM strikes, but an account bound version can be purchased with a high amount of green shards and ectoplasm.

... if you can complete the Harvest Temple CM, that is, so it will never become purchaseable for the majority of players.

In general, I agree. I'd like to see other methods of acquisition for super rare infusions. I just don't see it happen.
 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[andreiblue.8231]

4 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

... if you can complete the Harvest Temple CM, that is, so it will never become purchaseable for the majority of players.

In general, I agree. I'd like to see other methods of acquisition for super rare infusions. I just don't see it happen.
 

They will probably nerf the HT CM eventually, I havent done it yet, but reached soo won's second phase in statics before, it's not impossible, it just takes skill, like the abyssal infusion.

[Vavume.8065]

I agree there should be other ways to obtain infusions other than luck. KIll the boss 300+ times or something via an achievement and get it as a reward.

[Sobx.1758]

22 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

It's a fact though that RNG disproportionately screws over some players, while others get lucky. Just because of how averages work. Making some kind of bypass for that, whether it's direct purchase or RNG protection, wouldn't necessarily make the item significantly less rare (maybe a bit less so in the long term, depends on how it's implemented and what the requirements are). The main benefit would be in helping the people on the low end of the luck curve who get screwed the worst by RNG.

Frankly, I don't understand where the belief is coming from that doing such a thing is somehow against these items being rare/prestige.

No, in context of this thread it doesn't "disproportionatrely screw over some players". If it was a fact, it would mean a lot/most people get infusions and some are just extremely unlucky, so they get "screwed by bad luck". Meanwhile that's not the case when talking about super rare cosmetics, since it's the other way around: most people don't drop it (hence the price), it's the ones that drop it getting really lucky.

And as it was already pointed out many times: if you don't want to count on luck, farm up gold instead.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

23 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Not exactly, the discussion revolves around "being purchasable for currency if you never get -very- lucky". Any other limitation is added here in an attempt to sidestep the fact you can already farm out currency to buy them.

Exactly.

One already earns currency doing the content that can provide these infusions. One can get lucky and get the drop, in addition to the currency. What the OP is requesting is not that the infusions be purchasable via currency but rather that they be made cheaper so that HE can get them with less effort.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Labjax.2465]

Farming a herculean amount of gold while resisting the urge to spend it on anything else, essentially kneecapping 99% of account progress you can do in this game while you save up, is not the same thing as farming out a specialized currency. The latter could be even harder than the former, depending on the numbers, but is easier psychologically for continued enjoyment of the game, since you don't have to exclude 99% of account progress you can do while working towards it.

Note that the main case that is like this in the game (legendaries) have gifts you can invest your gold into, so you are not being faced with saving up 2k gold at once or whatever, you can gradually put gold into gifts and work on it at your own pace, without the temptation to divert all investment away from it.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Sobx.1758]

20 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Exactly.

One already earns currency doing the content that can provide these infusions. One can get lucky and get the drop, in addition to the currency. What the OP is requesting is not that the infusions be purchasable via currency but rather that they be made cheaper so that HE can get them with less effort.

True -and that's after OP admitted he already capitalized on their high price:

On 9/8/2022 at 3:01 AM, andreiblue.8231 said:

And just to be clear I made this post as someone who DID get one of those rare infusions, I got a dragon pristine left eye which I sold for 9k gold

 

I'm curious if he's ready to throw out (well, "give back"?) the gold he got by that drop or is it more of the "I want to keep the gold AND get easier/cheaper infusion now" type of deal?

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Farming a herculean amount of gold while resisting the urge to spend it on anything else, essentially kneecapping 99% of account progress you can do in this game while you save up, is not the same thing as farming out a specialized currency.

Not really, for example many players don't start crafting leggies until they know they can afford the full product. Which is also measured in thousand/s of gold. You're free to make your own choices and do with your gold what you want, but that is in no way somehow "kneecapping account progress".

Edited September 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"I want to keep the gold AND get easier/cheaper infusion now" type of deal?

This IMO. He sold it and now wants a system in place which would drive down the price so he could buy one again while keeping much of the gold.

[andreiblue.8231]

48 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Exactly.

One already earns currency doing the content that can provide these infusions. One can get lucky and get the drop, in addition to the currency. What the OP is requesting is not that the infusions be purchasable via currency but rather that they be made cheaper so that HE can get them with less effort.

Not about me, I even dislike most of the expensive infusions like khan ur's, confetti and queen bee

[andreiblue.8231]

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

True -and that's after OP admitted he already capitalized on their high price:

 

I'm curious if he's ready to throw out (well, "give back"?) the gold he got by that drop or is it more of the "I want to keep the gold AND get easier/cheaper infusion now" type of deal?

Good job ignoring the fact that the infusion already dropped 9 times in price and acting as if I should "give back" the gold to a specific someone. I am not sore about not getting gold or infusion, I simply think they should be more accesible to everyone and not owned just by 0.0001% of all players. I really liked how gen 3 legendaries are cheaper and more accessible than old gen, right now the antique summoning stones are the only thing keeping the price high, but while the number of them you can buy weekly is limited it is dirt cheap and eventually the price will fall

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

Good job ignoring the fact that the infusion already dropped 9 times in price and acting as if I should "give back" the gold to a specific someone. I am not sore about not getting gold or infusion, I simply think they should be more accesible to everyone and not owned just by 0.0001% of all players. I really liked how gen 3 legendaries are cheaper and more accessible than old gen, right now the antique summoning stones are the only thing keeping the price high, but while the number of them you can buy weekly is limited it is dirt cheap and eventually the price will fall

They aren't exactly cheaper the same way the infusion you dropped wasn't without value, but indeed was an equivalent of the gold you sold sold it for. When you get "weekly limited antique stones", they're not somehow free, you can still ell them, so by putting 100 of them into legendary, you're actually putting the equivalent of their value in gold into the weapon. Not sure why some people decide to consistently ignore that "detail".

Yeah, everything can naturally become cheaper with time. That's never a reason to "help them devalue faster", so I'm not sure I get the point you're making here.

6 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

Saw it at about 1400 gold, it did drop in price and there is no such thing as "real stable price" when it comes to the rare infusions because their number is really small, today a tp baron may decide to buy all of them and make their price be 9k gold again.

Yes, it did drop in price. I was not saying it's somehow not cheaper now. I was talking about the relatively stabilized price (which was achieved in about a month from the release) and 9k was not even close to it.

Yes, there is a relatively stable price and bringing up the price when they're barely introduced into the game, so there's literally just a few of them with people not knowing their drop rate/actual value yet is, lets say, misleading -intentionally or not.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[andreiblue.8231]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They aren't exactly cheaper the same way the infusion you dropped wasn't without value, but indeed was an equivalent of the gold you sold sold it for. When you get "weekly limited antique stones", they're not somehow free, you can still ell them, so by putting 100 of them into legendary, you're actually putting the equivalent of their value in gold into the weapon. Not sure why some people decide to consistently ignore that "detail".

Yeah, everything can naturally become cheaper with time. That's never a reason to "help them devalue faster", so I'm not sure I get the point you're making here.

Yes, it did drop in price. I was not saying it's somehow not cheaper now. I was talking about the relatively stabilized price and 9k was not even close to it.

The price of this stuff can change over night, the bee queen infusion price fluctuated a lot.

Also you can buy 4 out of 5 summoning stones without gold, the 100 stones may cost 600 gold now and had an even higher price before, but if you wanted the infusion you wouldnt have to spend any gold on them if you bought them weekly with other currencies since the release of the expansion.

You say that's a bad thing for an item to devaluate, but in my opinion no item in this game should be worth over 2k gold. I got a shoulder skin from a guaranteed wardrobe unlock, the skin is worth 2.2k gold, it is ugly and the only reason it is worth that much is because there are few.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

Also you can buy 4 out of 5 summoning stones without gold, the 100 stones may cost 600 gold now

It doesn't matter for how much you can buy them from weekly npc, it matters for how much you can reasonably/reliably sell them to other players. Their value isn't 1 gold "because you can buy one for one gold", it isn't 10 green shards "because you can buy one for 10 green shards". Their value is for how much you can sell them on tp, because that's what you're making the choice between: 100 stones or the gold you could simply sell them for instead. The exact same way you did with the infusion. It wasn't worth 0 gold, because you dropped it for free. Was that somehow not clear from the first time I wrote that in my previous post? Which part is still unclear?

2 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

You say that's a bad thing for an item to devaluate, but in my opinion no item in this game should be worth over 2k gold. I got a shoulder skin from a guaranteed wardrobe unlock, the skin is worth 2.2k gold, it is ugly and the only reason it is worth that much is because there are few.

And you weren't of that opinion when you were selling it? Why didn't you sell it for 2k?

I don't know why you're bringing up "ugly skin that's worth a lot because it's rare". Are the infusions you want here ugly for you? Then why do you want them? If you think they're ugly, you probably don't want to use them since why would you. If you think they're not ugly then you've just attempt to use a strawman by comparing it to an ugly item you don't want.