Pure OW PvE idea for legendary armor

[chaosdurza.3291]

20 minutes ago, kettering.6823 said:

People aren't asking to get it for free, they're just asking for another method to achieve it, which would include appropriately tedious work just like legendary weapons.

COMPLETELY agree with this point. My only caveat, is that legendary armor is clearly more exclusive than weapons, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. Keep it a bit more exclusive by having the unlock process demand a significantly higher amount of time, while keeping it exclusively in open world content. That way the unlock process does not require a high amount of skill to do, it's something you can chip away at over the months/years as you're playing the game. I think requiring 6 gifts of exploration per piece alone would be a great starting point, since that's kinda one of the pinnacle open world achievements. 

[Ultramex.1506]

Always irk me that these post don't consider raid as player versus environment, it is just as part of PvE as any contents that involve fighting only npcs with other players. "Pure PvE" post like this are cringe.

 

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Always irk me that these post don't consider raid as player versus environment, it is just as part of PvE as any contents that involve fighting only npcs with other players. "Pure PvE" post like this are cringe.

Yup, it's just a rather obvious attempt at setting up a false narrative to help build the claim that some players are somehow excluded when they're not.

47 minutes ago, kettering.6823 said:

Also keep in mind that most of the player population is mostly (if not only) playing open world PvE... it makes sense why most of the achievements would be locked behind it lol.

Sure, but then again it also makes perfect sense to keep using 2 previous gear tiers if someone doesn't want to play more of the game's content no matter what. Or do you think there's anything wrong with that?

And while we're at it, I'll also bite your rather interesting claim from the previous post:

59 minutes ago, kettering.6823 said:

Like it or not, GW2 is a casual game. Getting angry at people for being casual/'bad' is just stupid.

Can you point out who and where is somehow angry at people for being casual/bad? 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Woof.8246]

1 hour ago, kettering.6823 said:

 I mean, you already have legendary armor for raids, WvW, and PvP. I'm not sure why also adding another PvE way to achieve them would take away from that. If you already got your legendary armor from one of those methods, unless you are a devoted skin hunter in which case you would be doing everything regardless, then you wouldn't need to fuss over doing it again. 

Also keep in mind that most of the player population is mostly (if not only) playing open world PvE... it makes sense why most of the achievements would be locked behind it lol.

This is a good observation  , it will motivate people to go for the 4 legendary set-skins and play longer

Edited September 14, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Undeadrage.5106]

I don't really mind if open world gets legendary armor. But they will need to make it annoying to get and uglier than all the other armors as it's a huge quality of life added to the easiest game mode so you don't even need level 80 to start working towards it. It should probably be locked behind an expansion and it shouldn't be simply kill some bosses and get a  legendary armor piece. Legendary gear is expensive and it should stay expensive as it rewards the time and effort you put into the game. 

[disco.9302]

Came back, this thread isn't closed yet, hilarious 😂

Just saw somebody saying new ow players are likely to quit if there is no pve legendary armour outside of raids. In reality there are 3 things that actually happen when normal people get to the stage they want legendary armour:

1. Players accept that there is content which rewards the gear they want and do it.

2. Players refuse to go into any content with legendary gear, because they might not like it and accept the fact that this decision means they just manage without the legendary items.

3. Players come and complain on forums and nothing changes.

 

At the end of the day, you need to look at this realistically: do you want the reward enough to do the content or not? 

P.s. Devs already made the process easier by adding LI to strikes.

[Gibson.4036]

3 hours ago, chaosdurza.3291 said:

COMPLETELY agree with this point. My only caveat, is that legendary armor is clearly more exclusive than weapons, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. Keep it a bit more exclusive by having the unlock process demand a significantly higher amount of time, while keeping it exclusively in open world content. That way the unlock process does not require a high amount of skill to do, it's something you can chip away at over the months/years as you're playing the game. I think requiring 6 gifts of exploration per piece alone would be a great starting point, since that's kinda one of the pinnacle open world achievements. 

Gifts of exploration aren’t repeatable, though. Your suggestion would require the purchase of 49 additional character slots to get three full sets of armor.

[Linken.6345]

10 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Gifts of exploration aren’t repeatable, though. Your suggestion would require the purchase of 49 additional character slots to get three full sets of armor.

Well depends on what expansion  is neded if its EoD there is no problem.

 

[Cynder.2509]

You do know that raids are PvE, right? It's not hard to get raid armor lol 

[crepuscular.9047]

22 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

My understanding is raids take from 6-12 weeks, pvp 24 weeks, wvw 22 weeks.

 

 

Calculations are off

raid really depends on whether you can full clear with efficiency, they may be fast in terms of weeks, but what offset this is difficulty and time investment to full clear.

 

PvP and WvW are pure time investment.

PvP, not hard, you can get it done with in 48 days by PvP non stop everyday for 8-10 hours; you can easily get 100 asc shard per day with the time investment to get the 4,800 asc shards, this still amounts to 400-480 hours

WvW, even need less player attention, just need to cap an objective every 10min; maximum 365 tickets per week, 29 weeks to get the 10,500 tickets needed. assuming your world always have in the lead, tier 3 in your wvw rank level, 1450 pips / 10 pip per tick / 12 ticks in an hour = a bit over 12hr per week, times this by 29 weeks = approximately 348 hours

[Solvar.7953]

OP here - some thoughts/corrections:

1) I should have titled this 'Pure Open World Legendary Armor'

2) The requirement of tokens was meant as a replacement for claim tickets/LI/etc - other parts of collection still need (materials, gifts, etc).

3) My idea was try to put in a similar time constraint as other method.  Measuring difficulty is impossible - as others have noted, WvW is not difficult at all to get claim tickets - it just takes a lot of time.

My issue is that I have 30-60 minutes to play/day.  That makes scheduling instanced content difficult.  This is also why I did not include metas - I'm not against metas rewarding tickets (though daily cap should remain), but being able to do those in limited play time is difficult.  There is a world boss every 15 minutes, so even if I only have 30 minutes to play some evening, I can probably manage to get 1 in.

I've done some WvW.  Claim tickets is pure time gate - ~20 hours to get max rewards.  With my play time, I maybe get through the wood chest - that is 17 tickets.  Maybe I manage to pick up up a bronze chest or 2 - lets say 27 tickets.  At 1095 tickets for the LWI, that is 40 weeks for a piece of armor.

Of course, I could grind that out, play raids (I've done a few, not to my liking anyways), or just not try for it.  But there are really not a lot of endgame goals - legendary items is one of the few ones out there.  Trying to force me into content I don't want to play will just result me playing a different game (and stop spending money on GW2).  Providing me a reasonable & enjoyable path to legendary armor is likely to keep me playing.

In terms of requiring other OW content (jumping puzzles, etc) - simpler to just require a gift of exploration.  Doing the gift of exploration should cover a lot of the OW content.

Though as others have mentioned, the fact one can not repeat getting one of those on a character could make it annoying (I'm not likely to delete & recreate characters to get it, and I'm not going to buy 20 character slots for new characters)
 

[Linken.6345]

25 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

OP here - some thoughts/corrections:

1) I should have titled this 'Pure Open World Legendary Armor'

2) The requirement of tokens was meant as a replacement for claim tickets/LI/etc - other parts of collection still need (materials, gifts, etc).

3) My idea was try to put in a similar time constraint as other method.  Measuring difficulty is impossible - as others have noted, WvW is not difficult at all to get claim tickets - it just takes a lot of time.

My issue is that I have 30-60 minutes to play/day.  That makes scheduling instanced content difficult.  This is also why I did not include metas - I'm not against metas rewarding tickets (though daily cap should remain), but being able to do those in limited play time is difficult.  There is a world boss every 15 minutes, so even if I only have 30 minutes to play some evening, I can probably manage to get 1 in.

I've done some WvW.  Claim tickets is pure time gate - ~20 hours to get max rewards.  With my play time, I maybe get through the wood chest - that is 17 tickets.  Maybe I manage to pick up up a bronze chest or 2 - lets say 27 tickets.  At 1095 tickets for the LWI, that is 40 weeks for a piece of armor.

Of course, I could grind that out, play raids (I've done a few, not to my liking anyways), or just not try for it.  But there are really not a lot of endgame goals - legendary items is one of the few ones out there.  Trying to force me into content I don't want to play will just result me playing a different game (and stop spending money on GW2).  Providing me a reasonable & enjoyable path to legendary armor is likely to keep me playing.

In terms of requiring other OW content (jumping puzzles, etc) - simpler to just require a gift of exploration.  Doing the gift of exploration should cover a lot of the OW content.

Though as others have mentioned, the fact one can not repeat getting one of those on a character could make it annoying (I'm not likely to delete & recreate characters to get it, and I'm not going to buy 20 character slots for new characters)
 

Well sound to me like WvW is the way to go since if and thats a big IF Anet implement something like this it will be slower then the current WvW method for sure.

[chaosdurza.3291]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Gifts of exploration aren’t repeatable, though. Your suggestion would require the purchase of 49 additional character slots to get three full sets of armor.

Well you get two for 100% completing the full core tyria map, so 3 full clears per piece. 18 clears total for one set. There's absolutely nothing stopping someone from full clearing the map, deleting that character, and then making a new one to full clear again! The best part is, it's completely free, no expansion needed. With the difficulty of open world being exceptionally low, a significantly longer grind would absolutely be warranted.

 

Granted, with my other suggestions, all the expansions with all the living world episodes would be necessary. A few thousand petrified wood isn't going to collect itself after all. 

[Silent.6137]

6 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

It's easy only by exploiting a loop hole within WvW's broken reward system.

Although they sound good, you really have no clue what exploits and loopholes are. It was just a bad design that the people used to their advantage, which was changed not that long ago.

2 hours ago, disco.9302 said:

 Just saw somebody saying new ow players are likely to quit if there is no pve legendary armour outside of raids.

Anyone claiming that is just grabbing at anything when they can't come up with a concrete justification. If that's true, lots of players would have quit a long time ago since PvE Legendary Armors has been around  for more than 5 years.

46 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

You do know that raids are PvE, right? It's not hard to get raid armor lol 

Think most who wants Openworld requirements already knows that.

48 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

In terms of requiring other OW content (jumping puzzles, etc) - simpler to just require a gift of exploration.  Doing the gift of exploration should cover a lot of the OW content.

If it's going to be Pure Openworld, then it should encompass the whole spectrum of the Openworld. As some had stated, you can practically just afk at World Bosses and still get credit. The process should be more involved than just doing World Bosses daily.

Any changes should be based upon the average players. It's unfortunate you can't spend more than 30~60 mins per day but you are an exception rather than the norm.

[chaosdurza.3291]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well depends on what expansion  is neded if its EoD there is no problem.

It should definitely be core tyria world map completion! EoD, HoT, and PoF map completion can be done in a single play session (a whole expansion, not all 3 that'd be ridiculous). I've full cleared all heart of thorns maps in under a day multiple times making my HoT legendary weapons, we're talking some legendary armor here. It's gotta feel legendary. Full core tyria, 3 times per piece, is not a big ask considering the difficulty of the content involved.

[Vilin.8056]

59 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

It was just a bad design that the people used to their advantage, which was changed not that long ago.

That's exactly what exploiting a loophole means. AFK players are getting WvW rewards by not playing WvW.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Vilin.8056

[Xerac.1542]

Since world bosses might be a little too boring and repetitive here are some nice open world activities that might be a source of the tokens or even needed requirements toward the new legendary armor set:

 

- chalice of tears JP completed 6 times (I imagine progressing the new armor like the decade armor set. So first go for helmet, after that is done go for next piece and each piece will bring you back to this activity) 

 

- diving goggles around the world. Especially the ones in "not so secret JP" (also needed for each piece) 

 

- similar to aurora in which case you need to unlock some weapon skins make the armor require the luminicent armor unlocked per weight class (could also use this as precursor) 

 

- Gift of Battle needed per armor piece (just like PvE legendary weapons) 

 

Just some interesting ideas for open world content off my head. 

 

Additionally please Anet, if you add a new legendary armor set give it an even better skins than the raid ones, would love to see a new animated armor. 

 

 

[Vilin.8056]

2 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

My issue is that I have 30-60 minutes to play/day.  That makes scheduling instanced content difficult.  This is also why I did not include metas - I'm not against metas rewarding tickets (though daily cap should remain), but being able to do those in limited play time is difficult.  There is a world boss every 15 minutes, so even if I only have 30 minutes to play some evening, I can probably manage to get 1 in.

Like many other similar threads, this is just asking low investment effort for one of the most premium items available in this game. This has been debated dry since 2016, but never adopted for the last 7 years for obvious reasons.

Out of all 3 sets of my legendary armor collections, I made 2 full sets also by playing 1 hour each day after work. Instanced contents usually last 15 minutes per boss level, it's not a time issue, only a skill gap issue. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Vilin.8056

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

6 hours ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Always irk me that these post don't consider raid as player versus environment, it is just as part of PvE as any contents that involve fighting only npcs with other players. "Pure PvE" post like this are cringe.

 

Obviously raids are PvE.  But that's like saying both sPvP and WvW are part of competetive play, so WvWers should just go into PvP.

 

Open World and raids are wildy different content.

[Silent.6137]

33 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

That's exactly what exploiting a loophole means. AFK players are getting WvW rewards by not playing WvW.

As I said, you have no clue what the words means in the context. Exploiting will be using a tool or a program to enable something that was not designed as such. What the players were doing were just using this bad design to their full advantage. Playing what the game gave you is not synonymous with exploiting.

A loophole will be something that was not designed to work that way but players circumvent it. Such as a mapbreak.. Repairing walls is part and parcel of the defense in WvW. And part of the rewards was the participation. The problem was the length of grace period before participation level drops. In trying to address this issue, Anet went overboard and make repairing walls as part of defense useless.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

6 hours ago, chaosdurza.3291 said:

COMPLETELY agree with this point. My only caveat, is that legendary armor is clearly more exclusive than weapons, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. Keep it a bit more exclusive by having the unlock process demand a significantly higher amount of time, while keeping it exclusively in open world content. That way the unlock process does not require a high amount of skill to do, it's something you can chip away at over the months/years as you're playing the game. I think requiring 6 gifts of exploration per piece alone would be a great starting point, since that's kinda one of the pinnacle open world achievements. 

You're setting the bar too high.  Armour isn't more exclusive than weapons by design, it's more exclusive than weapons because PvE is way more popular than WvW, and weapons were around since the beginning of the game.  If WvW was the primary game mode, and Weapons were introduced later in PvE, then the situation would be reversed.

 

If armour intentionally meant to be prestige then (1) the PvP and WvW requirements would have been set differently, and (2) the armour would be way more expensive (it's roughly the same to buy armour as it is one Gen 3 legendary.

 

You can make the argument that the Raid skins are meant to be prestige and exclusive, and they are, so there really isn't an issue here.  Open World armour should be balanced to be the same as WvW.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

5 hours ago, Undeadrage.5106 said:

I don't really mind if open world gets legendary armor. But they will need to make it annoying to get...

This feels like an oddly common mindset in this forum.  Why do so many players want the game not to be fun?  Especially for content that takes an extremely long time?

Do you all want people to actually buy and play it?

 

The whole point of this thread is that there isn't a path to Legendary Armour for content that the vast majority of players actually enjoy.

[Vilin.8056]

16 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

As I said, you have no clue what the words means in the context. Exploiting will be using a tool or a program to enable something that was not designed as such. What the players were doing were just using this bad design to their full advantage. Playing what the game gave you is not synonymous with exploiting.

A loophole will be something that was not designed to work that way but players circumvent it. Such as a mapbreak.. Repairing walls is part and parcel of the defense in WvW. And part of the rewards was the participation. The problem was the length of grace period before participation level drops. In trying to address this issue, Anet went overboard and make repairing walls as part of defense useless.

Then you clearly don't know the difference between an exploit and a cheat.

Abusing a fault within the game's participation check so they can be rewarded without playing as developer intended makes it an exploit. You can find tons of exploits in GW2 and in fact, many MMOs available on Google, none require 3rd party programs.

The obvious is still there, AFK players are getting rewards from WvW by not playing WvW, but that doesn't make a legitimate reason to call WvW easy.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Vilin.8056

[yoni.7015]

21 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Obviously raids are PvE.  But that's like saying both sPvP and WvW are part of competetive play, so WvWers should just go into PvP.

 

Open World and raids are wildy different content.

The differences between WvW and PvP are bigger than the differences between open world and raid. You use different gear and build in WvW and PvP.
WvW and PvP are independent game modes, just like PvE. Open world is not. 
Even Anet seems to see it that way, they balance WvW, PvP and PvE. 
And what is so wildly different in Open and raids? The only difference is that raids are instanced. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by yoni.7015

[The Boz.2038]

7 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Twenty minutes per week is a part time job?

*hours*