I'm so confused and sadden as to why the Twisted Marionette was not properly implented into the story journal and/or open world after S1E4 release.

[CrimeDog.5614]

Why couldn't they move the chopper currently located at Eye of the North to Marionette's Landing in Lornar's Pass, still keep the same timer with private instance option, and even add a flavor text warning message to the instance acceptance menu just like they added for the Tower of Nightmare chopper instance acceptance menu. I feel like this would get some much more traffic than at EotN. It's so bizarre to me to miss out on such an easy implication for a moment of season one that is so major that it has a POI in a Core map named after it. Fine, don't add it to the story journal (even though it would not have been that big of a deal to bundle it with Tower of Nightmare, or even episode 3), but at least have it more comprehensively implemented into the world.

 

And speaking of story spoiler warning message, why not quickly go into the side story events that pop up in Core maps like the portal invasions for Scarlet from season 1, or Joko from season 4, or the Mordemoth events from season 2 and the others and type of a little warning within the event's description to help resolve some continuity confusion such as 'this event is part of living world season 1 episode 3 and may contain spoilers.' This is an idea they clearly had with the Tower of Nightmare's chopper instance acceptance menu, so why not add the idea in other places where it matters.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by CrimeDog.5614

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

I think it is likely due to the fact, that as far as I recall the chopper in eve of the north takes you strictly to the Dragonstorm - Marionette was another fellow "mist strager" behind said chopper 😉

[Zok.4956]

2 hours ago, CrimeDog.5614 said:

I feel like this would get some much more traffic than at EotN. It's so bizarre to me to miss out on such an easy implication for a moment of season one that is so major that it has a POI in a Core map named after it. Fine, don't add it to the story journal (even though it would not have been that big of a deal to bundle it with Tower of Nightmare, or even episode 3), but at least have it more comprehensively implemented into the world.

 

I agree. It feels like a missed opportunity to add more visibility to the Marionette fight.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

That's truly an oversight there. I was hoping for better visibility, too.

[Luthan.5236]

With the option to change the normal map based on the living world story selected ... it should be possible to implement something into the regular map where this happened. At least some outside dialogue. Then an instanced fight with own instance - if needed. (I do not know if the instance from EotN covers most dialogue exactly as it had been back there.)

Then again: Not sure how much of the map would need to be changed. (I think this one was in Lornar's pass?.) For the tower it did not affect a lot - people around you could move the - regardless of which map state they'd see. Best would have been to fully make an instance (cut out part of the map) - with all the dialogue and the player only taking part in one lane (that he could chose while others were managed by NPCs). Would have needed a bit more work to implement this I guess.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

While it also wasn't required as a story journal step, at least after completing the final Clockwork Chaos chapter, you got a letter from Caith directing you to the Twilight Arbor Aetherpath. They didn't even do that much for the Twisted Marionette, they just added an achievement that your average player probably wont even find. >.> 

Edited September 16, 2022 by OtakuModeEngage.8679

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

18 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

I think it is likely due to the fact, that as far as I recall the chopper in eve of the north takes you strictly to the Dragonstorm - Marionette was another fellow "mist strager" behind said chopper 😉

I mean, that's not that hard to fix. Delete the "mist stranger," and add the Twisted Marionette as an additional destination option at the Thunder Ridge Camp chopper. Conversely they could have also moved the instance entrance to its point of interest, and just had a mail or something directing us to go there and check it out. Both options would have made the story flow better, and either way its an easy fix, because they don't have to chance the instance itself, just the entrance. 

The reason this matters is, because when we are doing the story in canonical order, it doesn't make sense to go to the Eye of the North base, which, at this point of the story, we shouldn't have unlocked yet(and new players wouldn't have unlocked yet), to talk to a "Mist Stranger" about 'revisiting the fight', when we are actually doing the real fight(not the vision) for the first time.

It is both an easy fix, and one that just makes sense, so why didn't they do it?

Edited September 16, 2022 by OtakuModeEngage.8679

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

15 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

With the option to change the normal map based on the living world story selected ... it should be possible to implement something into the regular map where this happened. At least some outside dialogue. Then an instanced fight with own instance - if needed. (I do not know if the instance from EotN covers most dialogue exactly as it had been back there.)

Then again: Not sure how much of the map would need to be changed. (I think this one was in Lornar's pass?.) For the tower it did not affect a lot - people around you could move the - regardless of which map state they'd see. Best would have been to fully make an instance (cut out part of the map) - with all the dialogue and the player only taking part in one lane (that he could chose while others were managed by NPCs). Would have needed a bit more work to implement this I guess.

They don't need to change anything, they can keep the fight as an instance, and just move the access point so it flows more naturally with the story.

Edited September 16, 2022 by OtakuModeEngage.8679

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

This is especially bad since the Knight of Rot is extremely hard to beat (many players are saying it's impossible currently, while many others are recommending a cheese strat with condis, combat locking and rezzing as the only viable tactic) blocking the achievement for many players, and newer players won't have a way to get to marionette (Assuming they know it exists) since they won't have access to Eye of the North. It's bad enough how often marionette fails (due to not having been adjusted to deal with 50 player instance vs 150+ open world it was designed for originally) but it's basically hidden content as well.
 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

This is especially bad since the Knight of Rot is extremely hard to beat (many players are saying it's impossible currently, while many others are recommending a cheese strat with condis, combat locking and rezzing as the only viable tactic) blocking the achievement for many players, and newer players won't have a way to get to marionette (Assuming they know it exists) since they won't have access to Eye of the North. It's bad enough how often marionette fails (due to not having been adjusted to deal with 50 player instance vs 150+ open world it was designed for originally) but it's basically hidden content as well.
 

Dident they open up eye of the north to anyone with pof expansion?

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

21 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Dident they open up eye of the north to anyone with pof expansion?

And LW1 to anyone period.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Healix.5819]

8 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Dident they open up eye of the north to anyone with pof expansion?

It's open to everyone at level 80. The expansions are only needed for the extras.

[Luthan.5236]

Marionette isn't even required for the meta achievement. A bit weird since there is one more than needed (you can avoid the marionette)  while for the previous chapter they required all ... including the Twilight Arbor path. Some people might not want to go to the EotN ... to not spoiler themselves. When playing in order of release.

... so this mainly comes down to the story/lore part ... they would then skip. (Since the achievement is not needed.) They could make it to the main map (I think Lornar's pass?) ... and then having it similar to the guy at the camp in Kessex Hills where the dialogue changes. (When you have done it already ... after story completion and while the story is not active or you are at the end step ... he will have the dialogue where you re-experience/remember your adventures there.)

Still ... then people would have someone to direct them to that NPC. Unless you really just want to keep it as a bare achievement with the achievement having the option to show the location.

The Knight of the Rot can just be beaten slowly. Yes there is a timer. And at the end it even gives the message that the tower will collaps in 30 seconds. But that does not happen. You can just continue ... and even respawn  (he does not reset health ... at least did not happen for me when I walked back quickly). They probably did not balance that one with the timer in mind. Since it took me way longer and probably would need a good party with strong builds (maybe raid optimized) ... to manage it within the timer.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 9/18/2022 at 7:21 AM, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

This is especially bad since the Knight of Rot is extremely hard to beat (many players are saying it's impossible currently, while many others are recommending a cheese strat with condis, combat locking and rezzing as the only viable tactic) blocking the achievement for many players, and newer players won't have a way to get to marionette (Assuming they know it exists) since they won't have access to Eye of the North. It's bad enough how often marionette fails (due to not having been adjusted to deal with 50 player instance vs 150+ open world it was designed for originally) but it's basically hidden content as well.
 

If the timer runs out, nothing happens and you can still defeat him by taking your time to get the AP. Great quality control huh?

[HotDelirium.7984]

Um isn't the point of season 1 to fill in the breaks in the lore.....but with no lead into the marionette fight.....we don't ever find out lore-wise why she created it or it's role in the season 1 lore-fix this was supposed to be. K.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Um isn't the point of season 1 to fill in the breaks in the lore.....but with no lead into the marionette fight.....we don't ever find out lore-wise why she created it or it's role in the season 1 lore-fix this was supposed to be. K.

To be fair, other than the mail there was no lead in to the Twisted Marionette. Though there was the preview changes during Wintersday 2013 to the Lornar's Pass map with Aetherblades constructing the lanes (which as far as I could find there is zero forums, articles, videos, or pictures of this having happened - makes me wonder if I dreamed it up sometimes tbh).

 

There was, however, a following story instance which lead players to Scarlet's Secret Lair that is still in-game.

[HotDelirium.7984]

8 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

To be fair, other than the mail there was no lead in to the Twisted Marionette. Though there was the preview changes during Wintersday 2013 to the Lornar's Pass map with Aetherblades constructing the lanes (which as far as I could find there is zero forums, articles, videos, or pictures of this having happened - makes me wonder if I dreamed it up sometimes tbh).

 

There was, however, a following story instance which lead players to Scarlet's Secret Lair that is still in-game.

um...why isn't that story step in this new season 1 revisit? ._.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

um...why isn't that story step in this new season 1 revisit? ._.

We haven't gotten that far yet, technically. The Origins of Madness came a month after the Tower of Nightmares.

So we might get it during Battle of Lion's Arch. It could be how the final episode opens up as I brought up in another thread. We'll have to wait and see and hope.

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

23 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

We haven't gotten that far yet, technically. The Origins of Madness came a month after the Tower of Nightmares.

So we might get it during Battle of Lion's Arch. It could be how the final episode opens up as I brought up in another thread. We'll have to wait and see and hope.

We wont. They did the same thing with the Twisted Marionette that they did with the Twilight Abor Aetherpath, just added it as a side achievement in the previous episode that unlocks upon completing the last story step. At least with aetherpath, you also got a letter that further directed you to the next (hidden) story step. But with TM they didnt even send a letter, you just have to find it in your achievements, which i dont think the average player does, which means many people will miss out on this story step.

Edited September 22, 2022 by OtakuModeEngage.8679

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

7 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

We wont. They did the same thing with the Twisted Marionette that they did with the Twilight Abor Aetherpath, just added it as a side achievement in the previous episode that unlocks upon completing the last story step. At least wait aetherpath, you also got a letter that further directed you to the next (hidden) story step. But with TM they didnt even send a letter, you just have to find it in your achievements, which i dont think the average player does, which means many people will miss out on this story step.

Aetherpath didn't introduce a new character nor have a follow-up story instance.

Aetherpath was also made mandatory for the meta achievement, while Twisted Marionette was not.

So I wouldn't say they're completely comparable. I'm still holding out hope that Taimi will show up in more than one story instance. She HAS to since the entire point of Season 1 return is to solve the issue of new players going into Season 2 and asking who the kitten are these people.

It's bad enough that Canach's beginning is taken away, but if he also doesn't show up in the literal one time we talk to him as part of the main story outside Southsun, it'll be a kitten travesty.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Aetherpath didn't introduce a new character nor have a follow-up story instance.

Aetherpath was also made mandatory for the meta achievement, while Twisted Marionette was not.

So I wouldn't say they're completely comparable. I'm still holding out hope that Taimi will show up in more than one story instance. She HAS to since the entire point of Season 1 return is to solve the issue of new players going into Season 2 and asking who the kitten are these people.

It's bad enough that Canach's beginning is taken away, but if he also doesn't show up in the literal one time we talk to him as part of the main story outside Southsun, it'll be a kitten travesty.

I don't disagree that these two pieces of content(Twlight Abor Aetherpath and Twisted Marionette) are of a different level of importance to the story, my point was that ANet gave them the same side story treatment, by regulating them to achievements instead of including them in the story journal. By extension my point was i don't think they will add TM to the story journal(at least not short term), because they already added it to the Tower of Nightmares achievements, in the very same manor that they skipped including the Aetherpath into the story journal after adding it into the Clockwork Chaos achievements. IE these two pieces of content are in the same situation, even if arguably they shouldn't be. 

 

That said, i agree the TM got the short side of the stick, as it:

1. Didnt get a letter inviting the player to explore it.

2. Isnt required in the meta achievement

3. Is still located in the Eye of the North, which is immersion breaking for players playing this the first time.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

45 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

By extension my point was i don't think they will add TM to the story journal(at least not short term),

I never said they might add TM to the story journal though.

I said they might add the story instance from The Origins of Madness that came after TM.

I am referring to this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Origins_of_Madness:_A_Moment's_Peace

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

On 9/22/2022 at 2:55 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I never said they might add TM to the story journal though.

I said they might add the story instance from The Origins of Madness that came after TM.

I am referring to this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Origins_of_Madness:_A_Moment's_Peace

Oh, my bad. Yeah, they really do need to add it.