We need more group focused content.

[Firebeard.1746]

7 hours ago, Luks.4230 said:

Sure it was pugged nowadays but thats not the point. It was an example of group based content. Playing in a squad of 50 ppl only to share boons an such without any tought of gameplay or coordination its just like a single player game. You dont even need to join a squad to get the meta done. All group based content is abandoned and only left is truly single player gameplay, you guys dont even realite 

 

Have you killed Dhuum yet? Just curious if you've done the hard group content while complaining there is none.

 

Also, which metas are you doing with absolutely no coordination? Alot of metas have points where players need to kill things around the same time, or split up and maintain objectives. Also in some metas, like pinata you can earn more rewards by coordinating with other players doing sub objectives like killing bandits.

I'm also confused what the difference is between 50 man content people can do without coordination in WoW vs Gw2. Just because it was hard back in the day, suddenly gw2 is worse, even if there's not a ton of difference in how players are playing between the two games nowadays?

Edited September 28, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Moradorin.6217]

Just to think out loud about the OP. It seems like what you are asking for is content that feels more group oriented in the sense that people care about the group outcome more? Sort of more meaningful social aspect? I sorta think that in gw2 the Guild was meant to facilitate this aspect. However, guilds I think need to have relavent Missions/Mission rewards, and maybe an update to allow guild groups to be formed via the panel for things with some extra bonus to provide a tangible reason for people to prefer to group w the guild group other than ONLY for optimal performance.

 

The issue w GW2 ends up being allot can be done alone or in unorganized groups, then pretty much the rest like raids, strikes you just need to fill correct meta rolls, stack ppl and be aware of the mechanics then it can become this transactional thing in which everyone does a job and gets a reward, but afterwords some players may feel like..ok..but so what... this silly reward doesnt satisfy me. I want a human connection/link of a shared experience w my friends/guild/clan/whatever. The only way I can see people getting that connection is through doing it outside the game in RL via discord, etc or for Anet to revamp Guild System.

 

So I would suggest what you really want is a revamp to the guild system, guild missions, mission rewards.

[Gehenna.3625]

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

I don't actually believe this is as good as it gets because I believe the MMO space has little competitors at the moment that if GW2 play its card right then it can go back to sit with the top games.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree here, but I can't be sure I'm right either. 

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Yes the game was not about endgame in the traditional sense with gear grinds and whatnot. But it doesn't mean anything about not having endgame content in general. GW1 was the same with no traditional endgame. It had even less gear grinds but there is a slew of endgame content with vanquish, dungeons and whatnot.

Well GW1 has 18 dungeons , UW, FoW, DoA, The Deep and Urgoz's Warren iirc. To say that that was a lot of traditional endgame, dunno... Especially those 18 dungeons weren't there till the last expansion.

Vanquishing is mostly done solo because hero's and mercenaries are really good. And even Dungeons in GW1 are mostly soloable and so 55-monks run most dungeons for tips or platinum. I wouldn't call that a slew of group/endgame content. Even UW and FoW were soloable for the most part at some point.

This game has 8 dungeons, 11 Strike Missions, 7 Raids (wings) and fractals. And there's the meta's as well. And fights like the Marionette and Dragon Storm. And that's also not a slew of endgame content but it seems to me that GW1 wasn't better than GW2 with that.

What GW1 was better at, imo, was pvp. I did quite a bit of pvp there, but I hate it here.

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Endgame content to me isn't just group hardcore content. It is simply fun rewarding content that is replayable. This has traditionally be difficult to solve in MMO as players will always finish content faster than developers. So what is the traditional solution? Gear grinds to incentivize people to play. GW2 can't have this, so it tried at first with living world and they failed because they do not have the resource to create good content fast enough.

Well there is an optional gear grind with Ascended Gear and especially Legendary Gear. I'm convinced that that's why they came out with the legendary armory: to get more people to grind for legendaries.

But you're right, they do not have the resources to create content fast enough...for some people. I still have lots of stuff to do in this game myself. But where the numbers lie exactly I couldn't tell ya. But you've gotta figure that their main source of income is the gem store and people who spend cash there. Are they to be found mostly in OW/Story content or mainly in group content? I don't know but I do have a suspicion.

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

So what exactly can they do? I believe this is the core issue is that they still do not have a good grasp on what the GW2 endgame should be.

That's in the nature of many MMOs these days. They want to cast as wide a net as possible to appeal to various player groups. But that also means you have to keep all of them happy. I mean a lot of people see Fashion Wars as endgame. What can you say? It's a thing and Anet plays into that with the gem store; their main source of income.

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Just OW is not cutting it. I don't think do just raids will be it as well. They need content that people will be willing to play over and over because is fun, not like RIBA or drizzlewood or dragonstorm where is literally impossible to fail and incredibly boring but people still do it because is lucrative despite you can practically afk it.

This is entirely subjective though. You cannot say that what you consider fun goes for everybody and therein lies the issue for MMO makers. As I said, they cast a wide net...perhaps too wide. But then again they do have to make money. Individual groups have proven unable to support an MMO fully by themselves. That used to be different, but the appeal of an MMO for a lot of people is that they can shut off at the end of the day and just roam around in a fantasy world. And meet other players left and right and have conversations with them, if they so desire. 

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

I think content like Soo Won is a good step. It is an OW even with some difficulty and decent rewards. The major problem is that it takes too long. I think marionette has potential, the issue is just that the reward is too low. I think stuff like this mixed with group content is what they should try to do. Reusing existing asset like what they are doing with strikes as well.

Well I have no idea whether Soo Won was a good step or not. It clearly works for you (except the length). I did complete it but I didn't continue playing because I felt it was a lame fight with lame mechanics. So boring essentially. But I will say that this game is not just for me. So I'm not against content like that.

Incidentally, I tried it a couple of days ago (I was going there for jaidite ore but fell right into the preparation phase, so I figured what the heck) and we failed in the end Why? Lots of afk'ers but also lots of people who were running around with no clue what to do. Now you can say, well, there's new players now but I don't think new players will have over 300 mastery points. The Soo Won fight (just like Triple Trouble) does have a high chance of failure with a PUG. And that attracts afk'ers cause if it fails, it was no trouble to them and if it works they can reap the rewards.

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

There is no doubt one of GW2's greatest strength is the open world design. The problem is that often times is not enjoyable to replay it.

Well you say this but this is also very subjective. Others will disagree with you. I play OW and WvW myself. That's all. I mean I help guildies out with fractals or strikes occasionally (you know, to fill out the group) or a dungeon here or there but essentially that's it. Personally the story line has no replay value to me, but there are many who would disagree with me on that as well.

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

I feel they should mix it together and try something like GW1 vanquishing. If done right, this should use comparatively less effort due to the ability to reuse asset as well as providing "endgame" content for all players. It doesn't have to be this, but I believe this is the sort of direction the game should try to do, by combining its strength of open world with the combat system and create good content.

Well, vanquishing worked in GW1 because the zones were instanced, so only inside towns could you meet other players and when you went outside it was just you and your group there (I vanquished everything with a group of heros/mercenaries). I would have no idea how they could replicate this in GW2 or anything like it but at some point it just wasn't that much of a challenge anymore. So also in GW1, things became easier and easier is what I'm saying.

20 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

tl;dr: Make fun rewarding replayable content, group or solo

tl; dr: But fun for whom?

[Linken.6345]

7 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Dude... Gotta read... 

 

"Guild Wars 2's third expansion, End of Dragons, appears to have gone down well with its community. To the extent that, in a giant post detailing what's next for the game, the studio also takes a moment to celebrate the game's popularity of late."

 

"We're seeing incredible growth in the community," writes ArenaNet. "In fact, the number of active Guild Wars 2 players has more than doubled over the last three years. This growth has helped Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons outsell our previous expansion, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire."

 

"I asked Guild Wars 2's game director Josh Davis what, specifically, counts as an active player—and whether that increase was driven by alt accounts over regular fresh blood."

 

"Active players are defined as those who log fully into the game and load into a map," Davis writes. "Our growth over the last three years is largely driven by new players coming to the game and the return of veteran players. A lot of live service games saw significant growth during the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. We've been able to sustain that growth well into 2022 and see no signs of slowing down, especially with a release on Steam and future expansions on the horizon. Players with alt accounts are a very small percentage of our overall player base."

 

Dude...

 

ArenaNet Studio Update: The Future of Guild Wars 2 – GuildWars2.com

 

"This long-term focus is paying off—we’re seeing incredible growth in the community. In fact, the number of active Guild Wars 2 players has more than doubled over the last three years."

 

 

...I would do some research next time before you make any claims about the game. 

By that definition I am 5 people since I do daily on 5 accounts each day.

[Vayne.8563]

8 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well we'll have to agree to disagree here, but I can't be sure I'm right either. 

Well GW1 has 18 dungeons , UW, FoW, DoA, The Deep and Urgoz's Warren iirc. To say that that was a lot of traditional endgame, dunno... Especially those 18 dungeons weren't there till the last expansion.

Vanquishing is mostly done solo because hero's and mercenaries are really good. And even Dungeons in GW1 are mostly soloable and so 55-monks run most dungeons for tips or platinum. I wouldn't call that a slew of group/endgame content. Even UW and FoW were soloable for the most part at some point.

This game has 8 dungeons, 11 Strike Missions, 7 Raids (wings) and fractals. And there's the meta's as well. And fights like the Marionette and Dragon Storm. And that's also not a slew of endgame content but it seems to me that GW1 wasn't better than GW2 with that.

What GW1 was better at, imo, was pvp. I did quite a bit of pvp there, but I hate it here.

Well there is an optional gear grind with Ascended Gear and especially Legendary Gear. I'm convinced that that's why they came out with the legendary armory: to get more people to grind for legendaries.

But you're right, they do not have the resources to create content fast enough...for some people. I still have lots of stuff to do in this game myself. But where the numbers lie exactly I couldn't tell ya. But you've gotta figure that their main source of income is the gem store and people who spend cash there. Are they to be found mostly in OW/Story content or mainly in group content? I don't know but I do have a suspicion.

That's in the nature of many MMOs these days. They want to cast as wide a net as possible to appeal to various player groups. But that also means you have to keep all of them happy. I mean a lot of people see Fashion Wars as endgame. What can you say? It's a thing and Anet plays into that with the gem store; their main source of income.

This is entirely subjective though. You cannot say that what you consider fun goes for everybody and therein lies the issue for MMO makers. As I said, they cast a wide net...perhaps too wide. But then again they do have to make money. Individual groups have proven unable to support an MMO fully by themselves. That used to be different, but the appeal of an MMO for a lot of people is that they can shut off at the end of the day and just roam around in a fantasy world. And meet other players left and right and have conversations with them, if they so desire. 

Well I have no idea whether Soo Won was a good step or not. It clearly works for you (except the length). I did complete it but I didn't continue playing because I felt it was a lame fight with lame mechanics. So boring essentially. But I will say that this game is not just for me. So I'm not against content like that.

Incidentally, I tried it a couple of days ago (I was going there for jaidite ore but fell right into the preparation phase, so I figured what the heck) and we failed in the end Why? Lots of afk'ers but also lots of people who were running around with no clue what to do. Now you can say, well, there's new players now but I don't think new players will have over 300 mastery points. The Soo Won fight (just like Triple Trouble) does have a high chance of failure with a PUG. And that attracts afk'ers cause if it fails, it was no trouble to them and if it works they can reap the rewards.

Well you say this but this is also very subjective. Others will disagree with you. I play OW and WvW myself. That's all. I mean I help guildies out with fractals or strikes occasionally (you know, to fill out the group) or a dungeon here or there but essentially that's it. Personally the story line has no replay value to me, but there are many who would disagree with me on that as well.

Well, vanquishing worked in GW1 because the zones were instanced, so only inside towns could you meet other players and when you went outside it was just you and your group there (I vanquished everything with a group of heros/mercenaries). I would have no idea how they could replicate this in GW2 or anything like it but at some point it just wasn't that much of a challenge anymore. So also in GW1, things became easier and easier is what I'm saying.

tl; dr: But fun for whom?

Comparing the 18 dungeons in Guild Wars 1 with the 8 dungeons in this game is a bit rich. Or are you saying TA Aetherblade path is the same as TA Up Up? 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Vayne.8563

[Eponet.4829]

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

By that definition I am 5 people since I do daily on 5 accounts each day.

 

Yes, and the thing you quoted already acknowledged that. It also said in the very same paragraph as the definition.

 

"Players with alt accounts are a very small percentage of our overall player base."

 

You aren't the typical player. The vast, vast majority of people only play on one account.

[soul.9651]

On 9/28/2022 at 7:59 AM, Krzysztof.5973 said:

How low did we fall that we get threads asking for more group content in an MMO?
How low did this community fall that so many are against it?

^this

It blows my mind aswell 

At this point people commenting against this they just dont know themselfs what do they want.. and i think its not community itself but few people from forums who speaking the loudest against this and at the same time it seems they dont even play the game themselfs that much but most of the time just sit here and comment..

[Vayne.8563]

19 hours ago, Luks.4230 said:

Its in a constant state of decline since release, you only need to look in the LFG. You dont think it is because of megaservers. Why do you think megaservers exist in the first place and why they were introduced? Its simple.. because of the declined playerbase

Just though about this, and this proves you know less than you think you do. There was no lfg at launch, nor for a long time after. Obviously as more content gets added to the game, the population is going to thin out, but this isn't evidence. This is your annecdotal experience.  You're speaking as if you know the truth. In reality, you have the same amount of knowledge I do. It's your annecdotal experience vs my annecdotal experience.

The difference is, quaterly reports exist and anyone can do the research and see if the game is actually in a state of decline. Now I'm not saying that it didn't have more people at launch than now, because that's not what steady decline mines. Steady decline means it's consistently less than it was, except we keep having periods of time where the population renews itself.  The bless online fiasco is one of them.  A lot of people walked away from WoW and some of them came here.  People are walking away from ESO now and coming here (because in that specific case, this game is closest to ESO).  And now the game has launched on steam.

 

The sales numbers go up and down but over time, they don't see to have reduced lower than they were at different parts of the game's past. If the numbers are going up and down, if older quarters are lower than now, then the game isn't in a steady state of decline.  Saying there are less people than at launch is true, but that's true of the vast majority of games. However, you have no real idea of how many people are playing and you have no evidence to support your claim. I had least have quarterly reports.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Vayne.8563
clarity

[soul.9651]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:57 AM, Firebeard.1746 said:

Yet WoW, an MMO that built itself entirely around group content just suffered one of the worst exoduses ever. And really just about any meta is "group content". It's just not organized, and plenty of metas still require some level of coordination. What initially hooked me in GW2 was its looser group content design, it made the game feel much freer, I do more organized content these days. If I had to say which of their game modes is best in terms of how group content feels, I'd say their raids for the most part nail it. WvW is also pretty cool, if the leaders are fun. When you find a community to play with, the feel in that content is the best I've ever had in an MMO. Outside a community it can feel kind of brutal or empty depending on the group, for both. 

The game has to be fun enough to play without other people around just so there's people to play with for the group content on hand. 

Dont cherry pick why wow is suffering, you know what other reasons was to that? Boosting, botting, raid selling and mtx, and people needing to wait half a year for any updates in content or balance in that game, also just an awful lfg system its not just "group content" what caused people leaving wow. And the same problems we have in gw2 aswell, same unhappy people and only the matter of Time if situation doesnt change when the exodus is gonna happen here, plus even more ridiculous is when wow was suffering the most and had the least players in its whole history the gw2 population still wasnt even close what wow had at that point, the only game which had more players was ff14

[Vayne.8563]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

By that definition I am 5 people since I do daily on 5 accounts each day.

Sure but the quarterly dollars aren't going down either. Are you spending money on all five accounts regularly?

[Woof.8246]

On 9/27/2022 at 9:59 PM, Krzysztof.5973 said:

How low did we fall that we get threads asking for more group content in an MMO?
How low did this community fall that so many are against it?

Depends .

Will we able also , to speedup the process of the WvW armor  acquisition ?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Gehenna.3625]

6 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Comparing the 18 dungeons in Guild Wars 1 with the 8 dungeons in this game is a bit rich. Or are you saying TA Aetherblade path is the same as TA Up Up? 

Well that just proves my point even more that GW1 isn't the best example of having more group content as the other person was saying. It just adds to my point really. So thanks for that.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well that just proves my point even more that GW1 isn't the best example of having more group content as the other person was saying. It just adds to my point really. So thanks for that.

Always happy to help. lol

[Woof.8246]

6 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

Boosting, botting, raid selling and mtx, and people needing to wait half a year for any updates in content or balance in that game, also just an awful lfg system...

.....plus even more ridiculous is when wow was suffering the most and had the least players in its whole history the gw2 population still wasnt even close what wow had at that point, the only game which had more players was ff14

We should copy the systems of FF114 then . Such as an LFR with quickness/alacrity/dps requirements  and gear progression (sockets with increasing stats ,that only work in CM modes) . Also Strikes ,  plus Raids  combo (2-3 per year)

Rather than wasting money to innovate(and people not liking it and need to innovate once again)  , we simply copy other games successful features. And we instead waste innovation money on other modes (such as WvW).

 

Edit:Imagine every 2hours the WvWs people can participate in an GW1-open-pve-world-format to capture bases , while the Normal PvEr's are unaffected or can hop in vehicle or speedy suicidal-mounts to (acts as 3rd faction with the goal to extents the duration of the match , and none can reach the "enemie's end boss") . 

Or the PvErs can join the empty WvW (while the rest fight in the open-PvE) and capturing objectives in WvW  changes the PvE-Meta-Event-rotation for that day (each objective has a random codename/meta event name associate with it ) . Rather than scratching the boring doors  , the PvE player can hop in the nearby portal near the Keep-Castle to fight the boss in an istance format  like a Strike Mission . Defenders are transformed into NPCs (multiply lives)

 

Edit2: Or imagine Edge of the mist > 3x PvE Raid Guild tournament on twitch to kill the last boss  race . Each objective removes a "defiance damage bar" from the boss (Alterac Valley-WoW). The system choose randomly when you meet an opponent to either transform you or him into a PvE NPC of your choice (Balthazar/ HoT leap frog) . The WvW/PvE crowed , gain progression toward an OW-Legendary set if the match extent longer than 30 min (and stacks...and hopefully they will destroy the bridges )

Edited September 29, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Woof.8246 said:

Depends .

Will we able also , to speedup the process of the WvW armor  acquisition ?

Please, someone explain to me what does this screenshot have to do with the post he quoted because I must be missing something crucial here 🤔

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Linken.6345]

7 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Sure but the quarterly dollars aren't going down either. Are you spending money on all five accounts regularly?

Cant say I do I funnel stuff from the 4 alts to the main.

[Ultramex.1506]

Oh dear, two opposite contents request threads?

Rytlock: Commander, whatever mess you've gotten yourself into has turned into a real clusterf —(static)

[soul.9651]

11 minutes ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Oh dear, two opposite contents request threads?

Rytlock: Commander, whatever mess you've gotten yourself into has turned into a real clusterf —(static)

I think it just shows that people in general want more new content in this game :d

[Ultramex.1506]

51 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

I think it just shows that people in general want more new content in this game :d

Yea but opposite request next to each other? I'll pass, i need mine sanity intact

[soul.9651]

1 minute ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Yea but opposite request next to each other? I'll pass, i need mine sanity intact

Well at least both of them were made by a different people. Or at least i hope so ..😄

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

6 minutes ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Yea but opposite request next to each other? I'll pass, i need mine sanity intact

This may be an oversimplification, but I believe the explanation boils down to:

 

There isn't any high level endgame content for solo players, so they asked for some.  A few group oriented players really object to this, for some reason, so started a protest thread.

 

Basically if you want to discuss something you'd enjoy in the game, assume there'll be an influx of people who think you're incredibly selfish for bringing it up, and telling you to go play something else 🙂 

[Woof.8246]

10 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

This may be an oversimplification, but I believe the explanation boils down to:

 

There isn't any high level endgame content for solo players, so they asked for some.  A few group oriented players really object to this, for some reason, so started a protest thread.

 

Basically if you want to discuss something you'd enjoy in the game, assume there'll be an influx of people who think you're incredibly selfish for bringing it up, and telling you to go play something else 🙂 

Yeah this thread ask for more hardcore OW events and your thread is also in the same wave lane , with offering open maps with more difficulty (more people participating on that "hardmode" open worldmap , the more community interaction) 

You just lost them because you mentioned "OW legendery gear" , haha

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

Yeah this thread ask for more hardcore OW events and your thread is also in the same wave lane , with offering open maps with more difficulty (more people participating on that "hardmode" open worldmap , the more community interaction) 

You just lost them because you mentioned "OW legendery gear" , haha

That's a great theory, except this thread was up a day before that thread.

And I still do agree with OP about effectively having less faceroll content, something the current power creep pushed further in ways that devolve someof the encounters into just standing here and keep dpsing. With recently mentioned example of it: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/122053-suggestion-make-dbs-invulnerable-while-riftstalkers-are-up/

So I wouldn't just stop at providing newer content, but also ensure the enconter design still works like it was meant to work. Hopefully the first 4 OW bosses weren't "just for show for new steam players", but instead a proof the awfully trivialized encounters are getting looked into.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Woof.8246]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's a great theory, except this thread was up a day before that thread.

And I still do agree with OP about effectively having less faceroll content, something the current power creep pushed further in ways that devolve someof the encounters into just standing here and keep dpsing. With recently mentioned example of it: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/122053-suggestion-make-dbs-invulnerable-while-riftstalkers-are-up/

So I wouldn't just stop at providing newer content, but also ensure the enconter design still works like it was meant to work. Hopefully the first 4 OW bosses weren't "just for show for new steam players", but instead a proof the awfully trivialized encounters are getting looked into.

If power-creep  is creating such a problem , then it will better to nerf the boons .

20% Quickness / 250Power-Condition at 25 stack of might .

 

Then we don't have worry if we are missing a crucial buff

Edited September 29, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Linken.6345]

11 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

If power-creep  is creating such a problem , then it will better to nerf the boons .

20% Quickness / 250Power-Condition at 25 stack of might .

 

Then we don't have worry if we are missing a crucial buff

Why not just remove them then since they dont matter?

Then we can just got 9 dps and 1 healer where the dps thats hurt just rotate into the healer spot to get toped off.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Linken.6345