I think AFK players dislike being repeatedly downed in few hits...

[Nabbut.7480]

When you are downed in under two seconds, with no possible counterplay but stay out of range (aka "run"), or do it by yourself (aka "play Scrapper") it sure is demoralyzing.

I am but a slowpoke Silver casual and my opinion is nothing compared to esteemed hyper-enchanted Platinums, but doing another massive sPvP overall damage nerf could make it playable for people like me again. Until then, I will be better off farming some hoof-beasts in Gendarran Fields than being farmed myself.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

When you are downed in under two seconds, with no possible counterplay but stay out of range (aka "run"), or do it by yourself (aka "play Scrapper") it sure is demoralyzing.

I am but a slowpoke Silver casual and my opinion is nothing compared to esteemed hyper-enchanted Platinums, but doing another massive sPvP overall damage nerf could make it playable for people like me again. Until then, I will be better off farming some hoof-beasts in Gendarran Fields than being farmed myself.

If you die in under 2 seconds with no posible counterplay..... then your build succs.

Its 2022 my guy. Everyone is rocking builds with stupid ammounts of blocks/evades/invulnframes.

I have invulnframes that last longer then your two seconds 😄

 

If you are silver and try to improve, maybe go for a sidenoder build. Their excessive Sustain leaves room for mistakes.

Also learning the enemy builds will help you improve immensly.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Nabbut.7480]

Sadly, Necromancer does not haves stupid ammounts of blocks/evades/invulnframes, and after Eternal Life nerf he doesn't haves lifeforce either. And yes, my build literally succs the health and lifeforce out of my enemies.

But I am not always on the receiving end of almost-insta-downs. In my latest ranked game I got 15/0 K/D because, you guessed it, enemy players were repeatedly downed in under 2 seconds except for one clever asura engi who held somewhat longer by running in circles while his mech was doing pew-pew. I was doing so well because they were dying so fast that I took almost no damage and was swimming in lifeforce from kills. And after we spawn-camped them, you guessed it, some of them went AFK.

So yeah, I think that it is not my personal build problem, but the widespread issue of overall damage being too high that it does not allows for meaningful counterplay in lower leagues.

[Sahne.6950]

25 minutes ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

Sadly, Necromancer does not haves stupid ammounts of blocks/evades/invulnframes, and after Eternal Life nerf he doesn't haves lifeforce either. And yes, my build literally succs the health and lifeforce out of my enemies.

But I am not always on the receiving end of almost-insta-downs. In my latest ranked game I got 15/0 K/D because, you guessed it, enemy players were repeatedly downed in under 2 seconds except for one clever asura engi who held somewhat longer by running in circles while his mech was doing pew-pew. I was doing so well because they were dying so fast that I took almost no damage and was swimming in lifeforce from kills. And after we spawn-camped them, you guessed it, some of them went AFK.

So yeah, I think that it is not my personal build problem, but the widespread issue of overall damage being too high that it does not allows for meaningful counterplay in lower leagues.

Damage already got lowered by approx. 30% 2 years ago. The infamous Feb2020 patch.

Since then you have alot of never ending fights. I myself play bunkertempest and i have alot of games where i have literally 2 people trying to get me off their homenode for the entirity of the game, but my healthbear wont drop. Since the feb2020 patch, there is alot of tankier builds that can literally survive pressure from 1 or even 2 people infinitly. If you nerf damage even more... the meta will spawn even more stupid bunkerbuilds, because they literally will be unkillable.

If you think damage is too high.... play something diffrent, something more tankier and you will know what i am talking about.....   because the damage is actually pretty low, compared to 2 years ago.

You have fights on the sidenode that take MINUTES.... if 2 good bladesworns meet its a literal snoozefest....

 

 

If you play necro, try and get some weaknessspam into your build. And get rid of the trait "weakening shroud" its currently bugged and does nothing.

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[DeanBB.4268]

I'm confused. What does this have to do with being AFK?

[Nabbut.7480]

When a player is killed so fast that he cannot fight back, he decides that AFK in spawn is better than running out and getting slaughtered because the game is lost anyway.

And the cause of getting killed very fast is high damage. Seems quite logical to me.

[Nabbut.7480]

47 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I myself play bunkertempest and i have alot of games where i have literally 2 people trying to get me off their homenode for the entirity of the game, but my healthbear wont drop. You have fights on the sidenode that take MINUTES.... if 2 good bladesworns meet its a literal snoozefest....

In my games I don't recall that happening because after one side gets quickly wiped on mid, the victors rotate to sidenodes and do a wipe there as well. But as I said, I am Silver.

And yes, I have some weakness with Reaper shout, although I cannot say if it makes any difference.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I'm confused. What does this have to do with being AFK?

SpiderZ.9146 probably assumes that the people, who are afk in the spawn for the majority of matches, just hate playing against people who can quickly down them.

However, I doubt this assumption reflects the reality.

[ThrakathNar.4537]

11 hours ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

When you are downed in under two seconds, with no possible counterplay but stay out of range (aka "run"), or do it by yourself (aka "play Scrapper") it sure is demoralyzing

 

4 hours ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

Sadly, Necromancer does not haves stupid ammounts of blocks/evades/invulnframes, and after Eternal Life nerf he doesn't haves lifeforce either. And yes, my build literally succs the health and lifeforce out of my enemies.

 

If the enemy Scrapper (or Mech) is playing Rifle, Corrosive Poison Cloud is a must play skill for any necro build. Put that thing down, and they can't touch you at all for several seconds (it also works fine if they're playing grenades or mortar kit).

 

Also, engineer builds at the minute are all incredibly weak to condis. Either core condi necro or harbinger will melt through them, because they can't outcleanse what you can do.

[Luthan.5236]

Wrong decision to go afk because you get killed fast. The game is team-based ... unless it is the mini season with death match where the team with the first player downed usually loses. Maybe try not to run melee into multiple enemies all by yourself. Yes: Ranged is an option and should be used and ideally you make use of ranged + melee (or only ranged) and not only melee. Even the engineer that can't have a secondary weapon set (well we now have one but we can't swap in combat in PvE and in PvP during the whole match) can use a kit to combine it with the main weapons.

Going afk only makse sense when the whole team is getting destroyed hard - cause of bigger imbalances in the whole matchup.

Also you can play a more bunker-ish build. (I still would not recommend to fight multiple enemies then. At least not with the aim to kill ... you should kite then and buy time - for example.)

I also play in mid-tier ... between mid silver and mid-gold. Changing the play-style can help a lot - making a huuuuge difference. Noticed this when I tried to stay alive a bit more. Adapting to the situation. Trying to kite a bit more. Instead of rushing into the action straight and just going for the fight. (Now I even run if defending seems useless and it might be better to regroup and get a kill and then recap ... instead of keeping the point a few seconds more defended but giving them the kill then - and the option to heal up and prepare for the next one of my team mates trying to to there.)

Necro ... I did not play it a lot. (I mainly play only engineer. Rarely tried other professions for the backpack achievement and necro was considered easy cause of the high healthbar and shroud with basically extra health.) But I think the main problem was that it has not a lot of own stability/stun breaks (very vulnerable to stuns). I think I used it ranged and melee - when 1 vs. 1 ...  and running into more enemies only if other team mates were there in melee as well. (Instead of trying to solo tank when other team mates are standing around ranging only. Then I prefer ranged as well.)

Edited September 28, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Stalima.5490]

1 hour ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Wrong decision to go afk because you get killed fast. The game is team-based ... unless it is the mini season with death match where the team with the first player downed usually loses. Maybe try not to run melee into multiple enemies all by yourself. Yes: Ranged is an option and should be used and ideally you make use of ranged + melee (or only ranged) and not only melee. Even the engineer that can't have a secondary weapon set (well we now have one but we can't swap in combat in PvE and in PvP during the whole match) can use a kit to combine it with the main weapons.

Going afk only makse sense when the whole team is getting destroyed hard - cause of bigger imbalances in the whole matchup.

Also you can play a more bunker-ish build. (I still would not recommend to fight multiple enemies then. At least not with the aim to kill ... you should kite then and buy time - for example.)

I also play in mid-tier ... between mid silver and mid-gold. Changing the play-style can help a lot - making a huuuuge difference. Noticed this when I tried to stay alive a bit more. Adapting to the situation. Trying to kite a bit more. Instead of rushing into the action straight and just going for the fight. (Now I even run if defending seems useless and it might be better to regroup and get a kill and then recap ... instead of keeping the point a few seconds more defended but giving them the kill then - and the option to heal up and prepare for the next one of my team mates trying to to there.)

Necro ... I did not play it a lot. (I mainly play only engineer. Rarely tried other professions for the backpack achievement and necro was considered easy cause of the high healthbar and shroud with basically extra health.) But I think the main problem was that it has not a lot of own stability/stun breaks (very vulnerable to stuns). I think I used it ranged and melee - when 1 vs. 1 ...  and running into more enemies only if other team mates were there in melee as well. (Instead of trying to solo tank when other team mates are standing around ranging only. Then I prefer ranged as well.)

The problem is that every kill will give the enemy 5 points so literally not playing would be statistically more beneficial for your team if dying instantly.

[Luthan.5236]

Depends. Yes dying instantly will only benefit the enemy team. But if you can do something that is worth more than the 5 points ... then it will help. Even if you are not alive tooo long. Adapting to the situation and teams (own and enemy team) ... is very important imo. Anticipate their movement ... do not try to 1 vs. 1 a guy that easily killed you before and try some other guy instead and/or stay grouped with the other team mates.

Sometimes it is fun to notice that you kill someone easily while the team mates have trouble in 1 vs. 1 with that guy ... when you get killed by another one where the other players of the team have no trouble. (Depending on the builds and stuff. Conditions have been mentioned by someone else - as something recommended to be used vs. engineers. Guardian probably will just automatically cleanse them all the time with passive cleanses from virtues and stuff.)

Edited September 28, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[shion.2084]

If an Engi scrapper is your problem then generally they don't have many stun breaks (2 max for any kind of a competitive build) extremely limited stability, likely none.   Last thing is, scrappers generally have crap condi cleanse (no one runs the purge gyro, so likely elixir-gun for one field that can do it).    

Necro is a tough match up for a scrapper that is geared for DPS.

[Bazsi.2734]

14 hours ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

When you are downed in under two seconds, with no possible counterplay but stay out of range (aka "run"), or do it by yourself (aka "play Scrapper") it sure is demoralyzing.

I am but a slowpoke Silver casual and my opinion is nothing compared to esteemed hyper-enchanted Platinums, but doing another massive sPvP overall damage nerf could make it playable for people like me again. Until then, I will be better off farming some hoof-beasts in Gendarran Fields than being farmed myself.

You know if we slowed the game down, you'd still be beaten by people who react 3 times as fast as you do. They would just be more bored while wiping the floor with you. Also if you keep playing ranked matches, over time the game will recognise that you are indeed a silver player, and match you with others with the same performance record. And from that point on you should be fine... until the next hard rating reset.  😄 

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

 Also if you keep playing ranked matches, over time the game will recognise that you are indeed a silver player, and match you with others with the same performance record.

That's not how the matchmaking currently happens.

Due to the insufficient amount of players still engaging in sPvP, everything from platinum to bronze can be in the same match.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Sahne.6950]

49 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

That's not how the matchmaking currently happens.

Due to the insufficient amount of players still engaging in sPvP, everything from platinum to bronze can be in the same match.

well yes, but no.

[Luthan.5236]

It is not that extreme. At least not in the EU. (I think in the US the playerbase is even lower and it is more of a problem.) Silver with bronze and gold ... can happen I think. Maybe a 200 range - if you are at the top of silver you might get matched with players that are mid-gold ... if not enough top silver and low gold are available - for example.

The big problem is the soft reset every season. While it takes "only" 10 matches to get your placements (then the rating changes get smaller leading to a stable rating ideally ... if we don't take into accont the big loss/win streaks) ... you need to also factor in that not everyone is playing the same amount of matches or starting at the same time.

I usually say it takes about 2 weeks for the matches to get better - after a season start. Personally I play 3-4 matches each day. Finishing placements early. (And some finihs even earlier than me - if they play a lot or mainly/only PvP.) But there might be those that only start later - maybe playing weekend only. Or playing 1-2 matches each day or not playing every day. Platin guy with 1600 (after the soft reset 1400) ... getting matched with 1200s ... can happen. Should not happen that extreme though after most players have done their placements.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I never stick to just one class in pvp. Necro is a low skilled class made for new comers. It's best to move to a more aggressive, more defensive, fun and damage dealing class honestly. 

A necro player complaining about getting killed when they can literally have 25k+ hp is hilarious to read. This meta may not be the necro meta anymore. And good riddance. After 9 years of ez necro gameplay they are finally getting put in there place.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:40 AM, SpiderZ.9146 said:

When you are downed in under two seconds, with no possible counterplay

I can be literally 5v1 and survive longer than two seconds, far longer in fact. It seems there is in fact possible counterplay

[Nabbut.7480]

On 9/28/2022 at 11:30 PM, Luthan.5236 said:

I mainly play only engineer.

The rest is tl:dr.

 

On 9/29/2022 at 6:51 PM, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

I can be literally 5v1 and survive longer than two seconds, far longer in fact. It seems there is in fact possible counterplay

Are you mainly playing only engineer? And I strongly suspect you are exaggerating.

[Nabbut.7480]

On 9/29/2022 at 4:11 PM, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

A necro player complaining about getting killed when they can literally have 25k+ hp is hilarious to read.

Yeah. Scrapper walks to me, stuns me and downs me and my 27k hp in the time span of me pressing a stunbreak and trying to make an autoattack or two. That's hilarious,  I agree.

In the current state of sPvP hitpoints are meaning almost nothing (because stun bam bam bam dead), only hard invulnerabilities, invisibility and distance matter and Necromancer doesn't haves the first. And the second.

[Warscythes.9307]

2 minutes ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

Yeah. Scrapper walks to me, stuns me and downs me and my 27k hp in the time span of me pressing a stunbreak and trying to make an autoattack or two. That's hilarious,  I agree.

In the current state of sPvP hitpoints are meaning almost nothing (because stun bam bam bam dead), only hard invulnerabilities, invisibility and distance matter and Necromancer doesn't haves the first. And the second.

Why are you letting the scrapper walking up to you and stun then down you so fast that you can't press a stunbreak? Were you just afking? Your stunbreaks are literally instant casts. You would have to be both in full squish gear and it would still take at least a couple casts to kill you. This sounds like skill issue.

[Nabbut.7480]

Another game, another fine example of what I am talking about. I got two kills and it was top kills because me and the rest of my team were instantly popped like mesmer clones. Skill issue? Sure. Not only my skill though, but an entire team's. No AFK's though, because my teammates were so dead inside that they just kept running out and dying like flies, myself included. Any sensible person with feelings would have stayed in spawn.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

46 minutes ago, SpiderZ.9146 said:

Are you mainly playing only engineer? And I strongly suspect you are exaggerating.

No to both. Doesn't matter what class I'm on, there's absolutely no way I'm ever getting downed in 2 seconds unless I simply wasn't paying attention

[Cuks.8241]

Maybe you could share what build you are playing? Necro is a very broad spectrum. 

Also what I notice is usually the largest difference between teams at lower ratings and why players feel that they blow up in seconds. One team focus targets, other dont. Its not that you get killed in 2 sec by another player, you get blown up by their whole team, expecting to survive a full team frontal assault in the open (or players just straight up walking into a bunch of DH traps). Call target button is your friend and following up with your team is the way to go. Randomly doing dmg to some random player is generally useless.