Any one else disappointed with the upcoming balancing patch?

[DaniTheHero.6318]

I'm aware that this was more of a PVP (sPVP/WvW) focused patch, but still.
I read through the patch notes, and while some things are pretty cool and welcome, the lack of some obvious changes and some more questionable actual changes disappoint me.

First of all, there's barely any changes to Mechanist.
Again, i'm aware that this wasn't a PVE focused patch, and in PVP game modes Mechanist falls a bit off, but seriously.
This Elite profession is simply broken in PVE. It is the "Best"/Strongest or one of, in every single role in the game. It's practically in it's own category.
Ask literally any random player, watch or read any guides or trusted GW2 content creators. Mechanist is simply TOO good.

Healer? Godlike.
Offensive Support/Boons? Godlike.
DPS? One of the highest, while being the easiest and safest to get there. Condi or Power? Who cares, either one Out DPS's most other classes.
And while it isn't as fantastic in PVP games modes, it's still really high up there, and incredibly powerful for how simple it is, and near impossible to mess up playing it.

It's simply unfair that a single class is able to be fantastic at EVERYTHING. Every role, every game mode. When already Engineers is pretty much the most represented. Holosmith and especially Scrapper right now have their own place in specific metas, and core engineer is pretty much the best Core class. I don't understand if this is due to some internal favoritism or ongoing balancing issues.
 

On the other end of the spectrum there's warrior, that for years has been literally a joke. Prior to BladeSworn, picking warrior was practically a troll pick for the nearly the entirely of the games life span, and in PVE although obviously viable and simple to play,  was pretty much useful in a single role. Warriors has been literally known as "Weaker Guardian", due to how many similarities they have, yet how varied gameplay as Guardian can be (Power DPS as DH, Condi DPS or Support as FB, core Guardian before elites pretty much was the only healer and so on).

Here comes Bladesworn, finally an Elite that brings warrior back. You can suddenly play PVP, and not only not be a troll but actually be in the proper Meta.
You can potentially reach TOP dps in PVE, but far far harder to accomplish and far less safe compared to other contenders (Mechanist? Scourge?)

And what do we get? Quite the big nerf for BladeSworn in PVP gamemodes.
Berserker does seem to receives changes in turn, but while it does seem like quite the buff for PVP play (Defensive trait line, hammer and CC application), we'll have to see how it pans out. I'm not too sure it's enough to make Berserker "meta" in PVP, and if it actually improves it proper in PVE. It's already quite meh as it is compared to other options in the game.

Spellbreaker? Some small PVP tweeks. Does anyone play Spellbreaker other than one specific WvW build? It's practically dead in instanced PVE.

Also a side note, healer scourage still fundamentally breaks instanced PVE, but remains unaddressed. When every difficult run can be solved by someone swapping into scourage, there's a problem.

Edited October 1, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

As for Heal Scourge, its balanced by the fact that it doesn't bring any boons except Might. This makes it leagues below other healers even if the actual healing and reviving is the best in the game, but its never taken unless necessary as it has no Alacrity, Quickness or even Fury sharing.

 

Its just not viable outside of encounters where its required (like Boneskinner).

Edited October 1, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[DaniTheHero.6318]

45 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

As for Heal Scourge, its balanced by the fact that it doesn't bring any boons except Might. This makes it leagues below other healers even if the actual healing and reviving is the best in the game, but its never taken unless necessary as it has no Alacrity, Quickness or even Fury sharing.

 

Its just not viable outside of encounters where its required (like Boneskinner).
 

Isn't it a problem when there's a class where, sure you will be weaker and may take longer to clear certain encounters, you pretty much cannot wipe with it?

Besides, it's not like scourage isn't represented pretty much in all other roles or other gamemodes.
Unlike something like Druid, you can pretty much play Scourage anywhere and it'll still be considered at the upper Echelon, even if not specifically top tier/meta.


 

Edited October 1, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[soul.9651]

I just hope they wont do a random nerfs which would put vindicator to 30k or something like that  now when they change the dodge -.-

[Zaret.1450]

The mec was adressed in the stream, they said some trait, i think the rocket or aomething like that, wont work on mec or something like that to reduce the brainless dps.

Warrior i have just started playing wvw and dont usually play pvp so i dont know there, but berserker has allwais been a good class, the thing is most warrs were banners before and you usually dont find a lot of warriors, but they have allwais had good dmg, one time bs was one of the top dps, BS not dps warr, so i think its not that hated, as for the patch, well theyre changing warrior the most so calm down and see how it goes man.

and last i think you mentioned scourge? scourge is a training group ambulance as a healer, you either learn it to teach people how to play or as a last resort when you have an awfull day and need to kill something, its kinda broken in its job but it only does that one job and it isnt allwais needed so i think it isnt breaking the game

[DaniTheHero.6318]

1 hour ago, zaswer.5246 said:

The mec was adressed in the stream, they said some trait, i think the rocket or aomething like that, wont work on mec or something like that to reduce the brainless dps.

Warrior i have just started playing wvw and dont usually play pvp so i dont know there, but berserker has allwais been a good class, the thing is most warrs were banners before and you usually dont find a lot of warriors, but they have allwais had good dmg, one time bs was one of the top dps, BS not dps warr, so i think its not that hated, as for the patch, well theyre changing warrior the most so calm down and see how it goes man.

and last i think you mentioned scourge? scourge is a training group ambulance as a healer, you either learn it to teach people how to play or as a last resort when you have an awfull day and need to kill something, its kinda broken in its job but it only does that one job and it isnt allwais needed so i think it isnt breaking the game

Yes, they are changing two minor things, that only effect the DPS aspect of the class and unless a Mechanist main here can correct me, it doesn't seem like it will drastically change that much. So it'll be top 5 instead of top 3. It's still going to be utterly brainless as well, not like the method of dealing said damage has changed.

It also doesn't address it's Godlike healing or Boon giving, where it's in a Tier of it's own.

You have to remember, it's not just the fact that Mechanist is literally godly in every role in PVE and pretty decent elsewhere. It's the fact of how EASY it is to achieve that usability.
If I'm not a pro player, what incentive do I have to play anything other than mechanist?
I will out DPS most pugs by just pressing 1, I will provide amazing heals or boons as a support regardless of the order or rotation of the things I press.
You can't have the easiest class in the game ALSO being the strongest nearly everywhere at the same time.

Warrior is hardly "good" in WvW.  Only spellbreaker is somewhat viable in a very specific build, and not fun at all to play.
Every build that you can think of for warrior in WvW, a different class can do the exact same thing, but better.
Why go bow Berserker for example if you can go DH, Herald or even Power Guardian.

They are indeed changing Warrior, they are nerfing Bladesworn quite heavily (Can stop Dragon Trigger far more easily due to no stab, when it's already making you immobile and an easy target) and pretty much removes the ShoutBuild, which is what makes BladeSworn so good in sPVP to begin with.
Berserker IS getting buffed, but not for the playstyle people currently play the class for. It's defensive trait lines, CC heavy builds, which for all I know could be great, but not the change I'd assume Berserker mains were looking for.

Scourage overall is a class that is S tier or at the very least Good/viable in every piece of content in the game. If there's one class where you can truly be an OTP and pretty much not need to ever swap regardless of content it's Scourage (Granted it isn't completely broken like Mechanist that is pretty much Godlike in anything PVE related, but it's more versatile when you include solo open world, and PVP gamemodes as well). Pre EoD it sort of was what mechanist is now.

Heal scourge specifically, as I said before, breaks instanced PVE.
Sure it lacks the boon coverage of other healers, making runs slower, it does however pretty much guarantees you not wiping on almost all of that content.
Is it really a good design choice to allow a class to exist that if you include it in a squad, you are pretty much funneling it into a near guaranteed clear? Sure it would take slower, but it's far faster than wiping multiple times running the 'better' Supports if you aren't fully experienced.
 

Edited October 1, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Woof.8246]

Hopefully they will buff Ele , because it some people can only do 19k in the Raiding environment , they get left out

[DaniTheHero.6318]

1 minute ago, Woof.8246 said:

Hopefully they will buff Ele , because it some people can only do 19k in the Raiding environment , they get left out

 

Sad reality where he could swap into mechansit, and most likely out dps his main on his first attempt with a fraction of the effort.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Isn't it a problem when there's a class where, sure you will be weaker and may take longer to clear certain encounters, you pretty much cannot wipe with it?

Besides, it's not like scourage isn't represented pretty much in all other roles or other gamemodes.
Unlike something like Druid, you can pretty much play Scourage anywhere and it'll still be considered at the upper Echelon, even if not specifically top tier/meta.


 

My friend, AlacHeal Druid is currently meta after the increase to axe DPS and groups will readily welcome Druids in any kind of content provided they already have a source of Quickness. And if you mean PvP/WvW, Druid was always used in those modes as a solo roamer due to its mobility.

 

While I agree on some of your points, mostly you just seem to like being upset at things.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[DaniTheHero.6318]

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

My friend, AlacHeal Druid is currently meta after the increase to axe DPS and groups will readily welcome Druids in any kind of content provided they already have a source of Quickness. And if you mean PvP/WvW, Druid was always used in those modes as a solo roamer due to its mobility.

 

While I agree on some of your points, mostly you just seem to like being upset at things.

Could of been a bad example on my part, though i'm not entirely convinced. Scourge is still better than Druid in that content overall, and far less niche in its use.

Regardless, general points here -
1. Mechanist is completed overtuned and way too easy to play for what it provides.
1.5 Maybe engineer overall is a bit too favored?

2. ANET seems to REALLY hate warrior. If we look at the entire lifespan of the game, and at this upcoming patch as well, it really is a black sheep. It's just mediocore at everything, and when it finally had one build (DPS BladeSworn, and Shouts in PVP) to make it proper meta, it gets gutted down.

3. Heal scourage breaks Instanced PVE (In my opinion). There shouldn't be a "pick to win" class in the game. you will NOT fail on nearly any of the encounters by slightly reducing DPS when the exchange is getting absurd amount of heal and revive potential.

Edited October 1, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Inari Kamihara.6908]

Most raiders and strike runners don't bring heal scourge to anything that isn't Boneskinner, and that's only because that fight is so broken with the incoming damage that doing the mechanic correctly and keeping torches lit is actually by far riskier, if not impossible for most groups to do successfully. And ArenaNet have shown no inclination to fix old encounters that are that horribly broken. If heal scourge gets nerfed, the Boneskinner probably never gets cleared again by most players that are even currently bothering to touch it now.

 

Aside from that, in any other scenario most people who take raiding seriously don't bother bringing it to any other encounter, and there are those who would view it as an insult if it was brought to any regular run. It doesn't bring any desired boons, as might is pretty much a universal constant otherwise. It serves no other purpose than barrier and revive bot, and the low DPS value it provides means you actually see more mechanics that can lead to wipes.

 

As for DPS mechanist, it's seeing a dps nerf of several thousand, so it won't be the be-all, end-all it is right now. It'll still be a solid option for new raiders, and players who want low-intensity builds that accommodate common disabilities (joint pain, slower reaction times, etc.) that they may or may not have. Anywhere from 33-35k DPS is a good place for it. Condi mech was already nerfed, far harder than it needed to be, imo. The bigger outlier to look at would be condi virtuoso, especially the Chaos variant.

 

Before the banner change, warrior was always a solid pick and it wasn't that uncommon to see it top DPS charts as a support, so I'm really not sure where the anger comes from. The June balance patch made it less worthwhile to take, but that got remedied in short order with some decent adjustments.

[Linken.6345]

So Op mechanist is the new firebrand.

So yea we already had a class that was god in everything before.

[fatihso.7258]

6 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

First of all, there's barely any changes to Mechanist.

 

Have you watched the actual balance stream or vod? If you did you would not make this thread. 

 

Here you go, picked the time for you:

 

 

 

[DaniTheHero.6318]

30 minutes ago, Teoman.9713 said:

 

Have you watched the actual balance stream or vod? If you did you would not make this thread. 

 

Here you go, picked the time for you:

 

 

 

I actually have not watched the actual vod but only went through patch notes directly.
I was not aware that they are planning on addressing this in Novemeber.

This is reassuring that even they are aware that there's still an issue with Mechanist even after this DPS nerf, though having to wait ( at least) another month or two before it actually gets "fixed" is disheartening. There's also no guarantee it's going to happen or if it'l be impactful enough.

Bladesworn nerf is still heartbreaking, hopefully Berserker buffs will be fruitful.

Edited October 1, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

24 minutes ago, Teoman.9713 said:

 

Have you watched the actual balance stream or vod? If you did you would not make this thread. 

 

Here you go, picked the time for you:

We are definitely thinking about possibly looking at this class. That's a confident bunch of devs right there.

 

 

 

[Zaret.1450]

10 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Yes, they are changing two minor things, that only effect the DPS aspect of the class and unless a Mechanist main here can correct me, it doesn't seem like it will drastically change that much. So it'll be top 5 instead of top 3. It's still going to be utterly brainless as well, not like the method of dealing said damage has changed.

It also doesn't address it's Godlike healing or Boon giving, where it's in a Tier of it's own.

You have to remember, it's not just the fact that Mechanist is literally godly in every role in PVE and pretty decent elsewhere. It's the fact of how EASY it is to achieve that usability.
If I'm not a pro player, what incentive do I have to play anything other than mechanist?
I will out DPS most pugs by just pressing 1, I will provide amazing heals or boons as a support regardless of the order or rotation of the things I press.
You can't have the easiest class in the game ALSO being the strongest nearly everywhere at the same time.

Warrior is hardly "good" in WvW.  Only spellbreaker is somewhat viable in a very specific build, and not fun at all to play.
Every build that you can think of for warrior in WvW, a different class can do the exact same thing, but better.
Why go bow Berserker for example if you can go DH, Herald or even Power Guardian.

They are indeed changing Warrior, they are nerfing Bladesworn quite heavily (Can stop Dragon Trigger far more easily due to no stab, when it's already making you immobile and an easy target) and pretty much removes the ShoutBuild, which is what makes BladeSworn so good in sPVP to begin with.
Berserker IS getting buffed, but not for the playstyle people currently play the class for. It's defensive trait lines, CC heavy builds, which for all I know could be great, but not the change I'd assume Berserker mains were looking for.

Scourage overall is a class that is S tier or at the very least Good/viable in every piece of content in the game. If there's one class where you can truly be an OTP and pretty much not need to ever swap regardless of content it's Scourage (Granted it isn't completely broken like Mechanist that is pretty much Godlike in anything PVE related, but it's more versatile when you include solo open world, and PVP gamemodes as well). Pre EoD it sort of was what mechanist is now.

Heal scourge specifically, as I said before, breaks instanced PVE.
Sure it lacks the boon coverage of other healers, making runs slower, it does however pretty much guarantees you not wiping on almost all of that content.
Is it really a good design choice to allow a class to exist that if you include it in a squad, you are pretty much funneling it into a near guaranteed clear? Sure it would take slower, but it's far faster than wiping multiple times running the 'better' Supports if you aren't fully experienced.
 

about mecanist think that they have nerfed all its builds be it suport heal and now dps, maybe not enought, fair, but at least it was nerfed and other are buffed, i still have hope there, for warrior think that sworn trigger is too excessive, charge, launch and OH ko, if it has less stab it gives more optiin for others to stop you, but again i dont realy play it, so whatever the people think.

But for scourge think this, its condi dps has been non existant for a loooon time before torment changes and eod, and again while the ambulance is good hiw many do you realy see? it is a training/oh st we need a carry build, and most encounters dont need nor see a heal scourge, if it was everywere and was as goos as, say mecs and firebrands, then id understand it being nerfed, but in reality seing one just says that either the scuad is new in the boss, or youre having a bad day and need something to rezz you so i dont see it being meta defining nor overpowered, its just amazing at one thing and lacks anything else

[kitkat.2745]

there hasn't been a PvP/WvW focused patch in so long... most of them are for PvE. so I think having just one patch where the changes are focused on  competitive is fine lol. I'm sure they're aware of the issues with PvE mechanist, and will address them the next patch after this one. let the competitive players have their moment!

[Funky.4861]

Heal scourge is good, but has trade-offs in terms of dps and boons. I bring mine to qadim 1 (barriers and cleanses for the tank whilst i'm on pylon) and Dhuum (i'm golem-catcher) for clutch pull-res out of aoe's and boon-stripping after teleport. In strikes i bring it for ol' boney and whisper of jormy (though really it's just to keep flesh wurm alive). I'll sometimes roll it out for my daily meta run (ley line anomaly-> chak gerent-> tarir-> dragonstorm because getting/keeping people up feels good for both them and me.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

15 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Here comes Bladesworn, finally an Elite that brings warrior back. You can suddenly play PVP, and not only not be a troll but actually be in the proper Meta.
You can potentially reach TOP dps in PVE, but far far harder to accomplish and far less safe compared to other contenders (Mechanist? Scourge?)

And what do we get? Quite the big nerf for BladeSworn in PVP gamemodes.
Berserker does seem to receives changes in turn, but while it does seem like quite the buff for PVP play (Defensive trait line, hammer and CC application), we'll have to see how it pans out. I'm not too sure it's enough to make Berserker "meta" in PVP, and if it actually improves it proper in PVE. It's already quite meh as it is compared to other options in the game.
 

I just want to point out something here.

Bladesworn in competitive modes is currently pretty heavily carried by its sustain. It has very bloated self healing which is just straight up unhealthy for PvP. It is really skirting the line to Bunker meta and we do not want that to come back. The Shout heals needed to be shaved down so that its largest source of healing (Combat Stimulant) did not get so heavily augmented by its ability to refresh its Shout healing with Tactical Reload; which has allowed Bladesworn to exist in the meta almost purely because it wins by attrition.

Spellbreaker had this same problem at one point in its lifespan in PoF due in large part to Might Makes Right and how much Might it generated from Magebane Tether and how easy it was to proc Adrenal Health with Full Counter. The damage from Full Counter didn't even need to hit, the attack just needed to be activated. Admittedly ANet went about addressing this in the wrong way with Spellbreaker by hitting its damage instead (because that definitely made a lot of sense...), but they are actually addressing Bladesworn's bloated sustain properly this time by targeting the right thing.

Agree with it or not, people have gotten a deluded idea of Bladesworn's gameplay in competitive modes because its mechanical flaws are overshadowed by its ability to just live. I am genuinely curious to see how things will go with Bladesworn in PvP/WvW after this patch.

[Suyheuti.1732]

10 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

I actually have not watched the actual vod but only went through patch notes directly.
I was not aware that they are planning on addressing this in Novemeber.

This is reassuring that even they are aware that there's still an issue with Mechanist even after this DPS nerf, though having to wait ( at least) another month or two before it actually gets "fixed" is disheartening. There's also no guarantee it's going to happen or if it'l be impactful enough.

Bladesworn nerf is still heartbreaking, hopefully Berserker buffs will be fruitful.

 

You cant be serious. Bladesworn nerf is heartrelieving. I said Bladesworn in sPvP was OP 1 month after EOD release. Anet nerfed Vindicator, Harbinger, Willbender, Catalyst but they didnt even touch Bladesworn. Its sustain is insane. That Shout build takes Healing medal in a party which has healer support. Think about it, healer support cannot heal entire group better than BD's self heal. 

For the patch. My opinion is better than I expected. Vindicator's 2nd dodge will be awesome. I hope Anet wont nerf Vindicator dodge damage. I'm hardly disagree about Spellbreaker in instanced PvE content. Its DPS is approx 35k(GS-D/A) (Hammer-D/A version has 34k benchmark atm), that means better than Power Berserker. I cannot wait to try new Hammer Spellbreaker build in instanced PvE with the new trait upgrades. 

[Lynx.9058]

Seems like you're just whining about mechanist at this point.

[Ashgar.3024]

Its not in the notes but it was confirmed by CmC that Power Mec is getting nerfed during the stream.

 

The Mec no longer inherits Ferocity and it won't proc AAR either, both changes are roughly a 3500 bench DPS loss dropping it from 37kish to 33500ish while benching using Snowcrows' parameters.

 

Still a bit high in my opinion due to how uninvolved the build is but at least won't outperform most of the harder builds as easily.

 

Honestly having a Power DPS option on Mecanist was probably a mistake to begin with. Should had been Condi/Condi Alac/ Heal Alac, mirroring Firebrand for Medium armor.

 

Note that the AAR change also unnecessarily nerfs Condi Mec a little bit as well as it also runs it due to a lack of any other options in that row of the Explosives line for Condis.

 

As far as the op's whining about Scrapper/Holo/Core i'll just address it with this : lol

 

None of these builds are the best at what they do. Scrapper in particular suffers from major design issues, specially as far as the Support variation is concerned (at least in PvE). Holo is just an alright power dps option that competes with about half a dozen other similar builds and Core is just as much of a meme as any other core build as they're all stuck using dead traitlines as their 3rd (in this case, Tools).

Edited October 2, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

1 hour ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Seems like you're just whining about mechanist at this point.

That's all they know what to do. Mech sux in WvW and PVP. Underwater doesn't even exist and all focus is on pve and nerf mech.

And, there is Fractal CMs ruled by scourge and nobody even cares. Also, FB is required on any group composition.

At the point, I'd rather they remove the espec and change it something else. Tired of these elites crying.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[LSD.4673]

1 hour ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

That's all they know what to do. Mech sux in WvW

 

It doesn't suck in roaming though, which is super annoying. Loads of mechs now roam to T2+3 camps to AFK clear them without getting hurt, and they're more of a pain to fight than they should be because of how hard they burst. If you don't bring a block/reflect or at least a way to quickly close the distance, you get the shame of losing to a mech.

[Naxx.6203]

This whole post just screams "I don't actually know what I'm talking about but I'll keep going".