Vindicator Dodge

[Polar.8634]

11 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

so we can change them and it would open space for more needed/better option on aliance

oh, i misunderstood then. i wrote exactly that few posts below. both healer and dps options could be easily reincarnated with this

[Zaret.1450]

13 hours ago, vekkth.5206 said:

Absolutely dislike the change. It felt great to slambomb, it did fit nicely into rotation. Now it feels like you are a bouncing rabbit. 

you were already a bouncing rabbit before, as for fitting nicely well, it can be said that camping gs, shiro IO and jalis hammers you realy didnt have much things to do out of AA and jump, also the slam is the same, it hits a bit less but think that power dps is low overall, i hope power dps and vindi get some buffs where they should be, that would also increase the dodge dmg, and in wvw you literaly couldnt jump calmly before as there are too many things you need the jump to evade and survive.

The feeling might be different but overall it is better for us to have 2 dodges, and the big badabum numbers can be given with different balance.

[EyzKold.8247]

Enjoy the double dodge now before it gets nerfed.  Mech haters will be in this forum soooooon.

[Zaret.1450]

Its the same complain they had with scrapper, well look at scrapper in wvw now, obliterated, and fun thing is new vindi heal in wvw with the jumps is great XD so all those saying its a nerf can stop now, as for identity i like a class i can play thanks, nerf endurance traits and energy mend or completely change them, we dont realy need perma dodge anyway

[Vindi.6105]

As a guy who only plays Vindicator, i dislike the new playstyle, i feel like the skill cap of this spec went downhill and thousands of hours into the spec seem worthless now, 2 dodges is always something i wanted, but not like this. :x

[captrowdy.9561]

As much as I like rev and excited for the two dodges so I can finally play vindi in wvw this is a bit much. I just hope they don’t over do it with the nerf. Just remove energy meld for something else and tone down the traits that give dodge. 

[Zaret.1450]

2 minutes ago, Vindi.6105 said:

As a guy who only plays Vindicator, i dislike the new playstyle, i feel like the skill cap of this spec went downhill and thousands of hours into the spec seem worthless now, 2 dodges is always something i wanted, but not like this. :x

But what is it that you dislike? i mean yeah the change is huge from 1 megaslow badamub dodge to 2 fast minibadabum dodges, and now we kinda dodge more, but i think its better now, they can allwais change endurance traits so we dont cap endurance that often

[Zaret.1450]

I allwais thought aliance neede change, a trait that focuses on vick, maybe strengethin him while blocking vik or making vik skills not heal in an area, another that does the oposite, better vik and make arch hit less but maybe share boons on both legends, and as a 3 option we could get something like :

Each time you swap legends or aliance you gain a bit of endurance and your next gs skill has improved effects or something that could make aliance and legends more... Main identity, and not the dodge that is and has allwais been like a thief bounce.

[Vindi.6105]

3 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

But what is it that you dislike? i mean yeah the change is huge from 1 megaslow badamub dodge to 2 fast minibadabum dodges, and now we kinda dodge more, but i think its better now, they can allwais change endurance traits so we dont cap endurance that often

Well, one massive thing i enjoyed was using the tablet with the slow dodge while you're chilling in the air, I don't know how to explain it, it was just enjoyable to counter that downtime you're waiting to land by using tablet in the meanwhile.

 

I agree if you just kinda nerf the endurance traits, am sure i'd love the faster playstyle as well.

[Zaret.1450]

its true that fitting dwarf hammers or other skills that made effect during the dodge was rewarding, but was rewarding because you felt you werent loosing time, not because you realy felt you were doing something great, if you know what i mean, its kinda "oh im not being punished, great" and its a bit of a... you know whatbi mean? kinda sad we got to that point.

[vekkth.5206]

1 hour ago, zaswer.5246 said:

you were already a bouncing rabbit before, as for fitting nicely well, it can be said that camping gs, shiro IO and jalis hammers you realy didnt have much things to do out of AA and jump, also the slam is the same, it hits a bit less but think that power dps is low overall, i hope power dps and vindi get some buffs where they should be, that would also increase the dodge dmg, and in wvw you literaly couldnt jump calmly before as there are too many things you need the jump to evade and survive.

The feeling might be different but overall it is better for us to have 2 dodges, and the big badabum numbers can be given with different balance.

Well now you are TWICE as much a bouncing rabbit, I think its a big deal. 

[Polar.8634]

I used to sort my inventory while in long dodge so from that point of view ofc new dodge is big nerf. Now i need to press more buttons instead of hang in air.

[Gibson.4036]

15 hours ago, vekkth.5206 said:

Absolutely dislike the change. It felt great to slambomb, it did fit nicely into rotation. Now it feels like you are a bouncing rabbit. 

Vindispringer

[Zaret.1450]

38 minutes ago, vekkth.5206 said:

Well now you are TWICE as much a bouncing rabbit, I think its a big deal. 

for me it just means i have more things to do out of autoattacking, also before i often forgot the dodge because it was a, use, sleep till landing, land, use 3 skills or autoattack, keep autoattacking, oh dodge is back, dodge.

now at least i feel like i have something to do

[Zaret.1450]

wasnt ranger untamed something like an old gw1 build? how was it called? i think it was something about rabbits or bouncing or smth, now you have bouncenant, or the reverabbitoh i know i know, BOUNCENATOR

[Catchyfx.5768]

If they rework middle traits, 2 dodges will be ok. We just get them back wery quickly now.

I wrote rework because Im afraid of tuning numbers to 1sec. of vigor or very low endurance gains, like in pvp with retribution, trait that do nothing.

Keep energy meld, rework it, let us choose trait(middle part) what it should do. 

Boom

 

Edit: I would keep scavenger burst as it is, in 1v1 it will not make you bunny, but in zerg play it will help you a little.

Same with Tree Song(this one is more hardcore on stamina gain then SB)

Edited October 5, 2022 by Catchyfx.5768

[Angesombre.4630]

If you look at it, the only thing that changes in comparison to the other specialization classes is the intermediate stamina traits that nobody else has. The Daredevil has 3 different dodges as well, one of which allows you to jump and land on your opponents and in addition he had the staff with the 5 which allows you to make other jumps on your enemies. So the problem comes from the traits for me, otherwise the dodge would be a problem for all the classes because everyone can have the sigils with about 2 dodges.

For a long time I was counting the vindicators I saw and it wasn't that many either, besides I was surprised every time I saw one.

So maybe by changing the intermediate features of the vindicator we could polish it without making it ultimate. As said in another post we could increase his dps, his heal or his buffs.

"If you look at Mirage, he complains about having only one dodge and we've seen that it's not something that works"

[Buran.3796]

13 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

It was already an incredible duelist even after the nerfs and the fact that they didn't pay any attention to the middle traits when splitting the dodges says they have zero idea of the capabilities of the spec both before and after this patch

   I disagree with this part. In PvP, the Vindicator has been out from MATs since two and half months ago (when the July 19th patch nuked the cooldowns from Selfish Spirit/Selfless Spirit heals from 10 to 30 seconds and a massive barrage of other nerfs greatly reduced its heals and vigor access):

• Selfish Spirit: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Reduced energy cost from 10 to 5 in PvP only.
• Selfless Spirit: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Reduced energy cost from 10 to 5 in PvP only.
• Song of Arboreum: Reduced vigor duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
• Unwavering Avoidance: Reduced vigor duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only when the Vindicator specialization is equipped.
• Saint's Shield: Reduced base healing and barrier from 1,738 to 1,054 in PvP only. Reduced healing and barrier attribute scaling from 0.7 to 0.5 in PvP only.
• Unyielding Devotion: Reduced strike damage reduction from 15% in 10% in PvP only.

    Since then the spec not only fell out of meta but also almost entirely faded from ranking, with players mostly running either the same Herald build that has been around for 8 years, or the tuned down Renegade. It was clear that in PvP wasn't "an incredible duellist even after the nerfs", at all.

   Now, is is not that weird seen a once powerfull PvP spec eating dust (Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Mirage...), but what was a novelty was seen a freshly released new spec being largely unpopular in all of the game modes at the same time. And that's bad because ANet spent time stealing animations from other specs to "make" the Vindicator, and designed its convoluted mechanics, and if no one is running it, is a bad business...

   Now about the balance patch & Vidicator: the first thing they should do to trim down the current overperformance of the dodge is halving the duration of Song of Arboreum's vigor from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP and from 4 seconds to 2 in WvW and PvE. They already made the cut in the past and now that restored the endurance cost of the dodge from 100 to 50 effectively doubling the stored evading potential they should cut that vigor by half.

   Then they should make adjust on other vigor sources in the Vindicator traitline, since the changes in balance should be restricted on how affects this spec, not on how other extrenal sources of vigor (as Retribution, Energy sigils, etc) affects other Rev specs, including core.

   What I found weird is that finally the Energy Meld instant cast promised in the showcase didn't happened, and they instead halved the endurance delivered (which is good but pointless: current Vindi has so much endurance generation that can live in the air whitout even using EM).

   Finally, is imperious that ANet ends adding a sort of PRT to the game to test in advance future patches, as a lot of other games make (Diablo III, etc). You can't asume the risk of introducing a massive amount of changes without having any kind of intense pre-release testing, searching for bugs, exploits or just broken things...

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Buran.3796

[Angesombre.4630]

24 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I disagree with this part. In PvP, the Vindicator has been out from MATs since two and half months ago (when the July 19th patch nuked the cooldowns from Selfish Spirit/Selfless Spirit heals from 10 to 30 seconds and a massive barrage of other nerfs greatly reduced its heals and vigor access):

• Selfish Spirit: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Reduced energy cost from 10 to 5 in PvP only.
• Selfless Spirit: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Reduced energy cost from 10 to 5 in PvP only.
• Song of Arboreum: Reduced vigor duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
• Unwavering Avoidance: Reduced vigor duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only when the Vindicator specialization is equipped.
• Saint's Shield: Reduced base healing and barrier from 1,738 to 1,054 in PvP only. Reduced healing and barrier attribute scaling from 0.7 to 0.5 in PvP only.
• Unyielding Devotion: Reduced strike damage reduction from 15% in 10% in PvP only.

    Since then the spec not only fell out of meta but also almost entirely faded from ranking, with players mostly running either the same Herald build that has been around for 8 years, or the tuned down Renegade. It was clear that in PvP wasn't "an incredible duellist even after the nerfs", at all.

   Now, is is not that weird seen a once powerfull PvP spec eating dust (Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Mirage...), but what was a novelty was seen a freshly released new spec being largely unpopular in all of the game modes at the same time. And that's bad because ANet spent time stealing animations from other specs to "make" the Vindicator, and designed its convoluted mechanics, and if no one is running it, is a bad business...

   Now about the balance patch & Vidicator: the first thing they should do to trim down the current overperformance of the dodge is halving the duration of Song of Arboreum's vigor from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP and from 4 seconds to 2 in WvW and PvE. They already made the cut in the past and now that restored the endurance cost of the dodge from 100 to 50 effectively doubling the stored evading potential they should cut that vigor by half.

   Then they should make adjust on other vigor sources in the Vindicator traitline, since the changes in balance should be restricted on how affects this spec, not on how other extrenal sources of vigor (as Retribution, Energy sigils, etc) affects other Rev specs, including core.

   What I found weird is that finally the Energy Meld instant cast promised in the showcase didn't happened, and they instead halved the endurance delivered (which is good but pointless: current Vindi has so much endurance generation that can live in the air whitout even using EM).

   Finally, is imperious that ANet ends adding a sort of PRT to the game to test in advance future patches, as a lot of other games make (Diablo III, etc). You can't asume the risk of introducing a massive amount of changes without having any kind of intense pre-release testing, searching for bugs, exploits or just broken things...

 

I almost agree with everything, but in the videos the trait used "Reaver's Curse" which makes him jump all the time because of the allies nearby

[Buran.3796]

10 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

I almost agree with everything, but in the videos the trait used "Reaver's Curse" which makes him jump all the time because of the allies nearby

   It has huge repercussions in PvE/large groups WvW:

   Take in consideration that in the first Vindicator beta the Saint of Zu Heltzer trait (the bottom one in the last column) had a 50 endurance cost BUT the Vindicator wasn't able to stack two dodges (so you had the damage jump with 150 cost, the boon jump with 100 endurance cost and the heal/barrier jump with 50 cost, but endurance stacking  was capped to s single no stackable jump for each trait, no matter the cost).

   Now we have two stackable dodges with 50 cost (which is nice) but makes the jump a better dodge than a regular one. The problem is that vigor access is now just too much in the whole traitline. We should be able to evade as other classes, not once every 2-3 seconds...

Edited October 5, 2022 by Buran.3796

[Angesombre.4630]

13 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   It has huge repercussions in PvE/large groups WvW:

   Take in consideration that in the first Vindicator beta the Saint of Zu Heltzer trait (the bottom one in the last column) had a 50 endurance cost BUT the Vindicator wasn't able to stack two dodges (so you had the damage jump with 150 cost, the boon jump with 100 endurance cost and the heal/barrier jump with 50 cost, but endurance stacking  was capped to s single no stackable jump for each trait, no matter the cost).

   Now we have two stackable dodges with 50 cost (which is nice) but makes the jump a better dodge than a regular one. The problem is that vigor access is now just too much in the whole traitline. We should be able to evade as other classes, not once every 2-3 seconds...

If you add some ventari trait you can increase the stamina gain even more

[artharon.9276]

6 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

 i like a class i can play thanks, nerf endurance traits and energy mend or completely change them, we dont realy need perma dodge anyway

 

I dont understand your point. You mean bugatti should make their cars slower just because some people can't drive it?

 

Lol. Thanks.

[foxof.8752]

3-5 of us just fought the new dodge vind in wvw, it is broken, it is untouchable with all the evade, dodge, staff evades etc. This guy purposely come to the spawn to show off the dodges.

I can conclude that Anet does not play test among themselves, they do not have QA test.

[vekkth.5206]

1 hour ago, artharon.9276 said:

 

I dont understand your point. You mean bugatti should make their cars slower just because some people can't drive it?

 

Lol. Thanks.

I think Bugatti should make cars that are fun to drive. Cosplaying bunnies isnt the funniest thing to do.

[Dawdler.8521]

40 minutes ago, foxof.8752 said:

3-5 of us just fought the new dodge vind in wvw, it is broken, it is untouchable with all the evade, dodge, staff evades etc. This guy purposely come to the spawn to show off the dodges.

I can conclude that Anet does not play test among themselves, they do not have QA test.

Minstrel vindicator has probably now taken the crown for the dumbest build to ever grace WvW. And compared to the competition that says alot.