Thief megathread: Oct 4th patch discussion

[Solstice.5790]

Personally, I don't play the other thief elites that much. But at least I understand what they're supposed to do.
This balance patch left me completely baffled as to what Specter is supposed to be.

When EoD launched I was really excited for a support thief, especially with the ally targetting, to have the option of playing some sort of dps with the ability to bridge the "oh sh..."-moments when the fight goes downhill for a groupmate - possibly even to fully support a group while doing a little bit of damage via rotwallow venom.
But the way it was implemented makes no sense at all. Attacks that immobilize enemies while shadowstepping you away from them, low range wells that always force you exactly to where the damage is happening, baselines and coefficients that lead to similar support no matter what gear you're using...
And now there's Stability at the end of a movement ability, and a nerf to the very ressource that actually makes you heal and support your group when you convert it.

I don't know what this class is anymore, but it's definitely not a support, and it's definitely not fun in WvW or PvE.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Solstice.5790

[Vismooth.4128]

  I think it's terribly funny that, out of all possible solutions, they've chosen to move ahead with the one that affects every possible variation of Specter in existence (effectively deleting one of them entirely and severely crippling the rest).
  Like, there are so many ways to do what they wanted without completely destroying the class, making it even more of a mess design-wise.
  With what we have right now, I wouldn't hope for much. Most of the feedback that had been provided since even the beta of EoD had been promptly discarded. Anet either don't have enough people to collect the data or simply don't care to go over it, as continuous prominence of specter's bugs suggests - and you don't even have to go far to replicate them, just move diagonally while casting twilight combo.
  Saying this, if we're to ponder hypothetical ways out of this putrid pit we've been placed into, what I think could work, is:
  First and probably the easiest, bring the shroud health coeff to 0.85. That'd make the health about 18-22k on average depending on the build. BUT, in addition to this change, rework Consume Shadows to take 10-50% (based on stacks) WITHOUT wiping the entirety of the shroud pool, healing exactly for the amount consumed. In addition to this, it would be great if the healing ALWAYS came out as 50% health healing (with overhealing translating into more barrier, like previous functionality) and 50% barrier to ENSURE rot wallow stacks are always applied and DPS is not affected.
  Second, more questionable from my perspective, is buffing Specter's personal torment application in the relevant places (which means not on the AAs, thanks🙂), while making a significant change to how rot wallow venom is applied. Instead of providing additional stacks of relatively low-duration torment, make it provide a small, albeit scalable with healing power, heal.
  This solves reliance on allies for damage and provides extra healing tools at the same time.
  My perspective is purely PvE based, so feel free to chime in where needed.

[JaxLeo.7912]

15 hours ago, Eleandra.4859 said:

Let me put it like this:

If nerfing Specter on this level was felt necessary, this implies that Anet seriously failed in the design of the elite spec from the beginning.

 

Anet should own their failure and redesign the trait lines instead of this atrocity.

 

 

honestly at this point they should bite the bullet and redesign the whole class entirely from the ground up along with all 3 elite specs, they owe us that much, delete this broken design and make a class with a new focus, selfishness stealth and initiative are the issue? fine, then re-make the class entirely and focus it on quickness and positioning around a main target with the option to cleave for lower damage, i'm honestly sick of this ever since i started playing is the same story with thief

Edited October 6, 2022 by JaxLeo.7912

[nopoet.2960]

By the way, which one of you told the devs there wasn't enough access to endurance in the acro line?

 

Also I can't figure out what elite the new hard to catch is supposed to enhance. Spinny knives already has evade.  Stony poison actually stops attacks so most likely don't need evades when you use it.  Hep Frenz! gets used in a safe space during the combat flow (this is actually hard to describe, does anyone know what I'm talking about?) I think this is a result of the casting time.  DD elite, hard cc again.  DE elite you're in stealth.  Specter elite, again your targets are being controlled.  Am I missing something?

[Mincsk.6028]

9 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:

By the way, which one of you told the devs there wasn't enough access to endurance in the acro line?

 

Also I can't figure out what elite the new hard to catch is supposed to enhance. Spinny knives already has evade.  Stony poison actually stops attacks so most likely don't need evades when you use it.  Hep Frenz! gets used in a safe space during the combat flow (this is actually hard to describe, does anyone know what I'm talking about?) I think this is a result of the casting time.  DD elite, hard cc again.  DE elite you're in stealth.  Specter elite, again your targets are being controlled.  Am I missing something?

I bet 1 of 2 things is going on. Not a single one of them plays the thief or another companies mole is sabotaging the balance devs. The 28th patch... now this, Idk it seems really strange to me. Like the 28th banner change was just so illogical it felt unreal. The s.a change now this... Idk, somethin don't feel right.

[saerni.2584]

50 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:

By the way, which one of you told the devs there wasn't enough access to endurance in the acro line?

 

Also I can't figure out what elite the new hard to catch is supposed to enhance. Spinny knives already has evade.  Stony poison actually stops attacks so most likely don't need evades when you use it.  Hep Frenz! gets used in a safe space during the combat flow (this is actually hard to describe, does anyone know what I'm talking about?) I think this is a result of the casting time.  DD elite, hard cc again.  DE elite you're in stealth.  Specter elite, again your targets are being controlled.  Am I missing something?

My first thought is that with DD elite you have a finisher built in. So in PvP you could (with quickness preferable for the whole chain) activate it and gain evasion while executing the stomp. But that is niche and doing Acro-DD would probably be a bit of a meme. 
 

Deadeye could also use the extra evasion on Shadow Meld to help avoid damage. Even in stealth you don't get a pass on large AoE or channeled skills. That said, highest value would also likely be in the form of covering a stomp like with DD. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by saerni.2584

[Androx.8572]

It seems a big number of users are pissed off.

Myself included.

I propose we organize and punish Arena Net in a way for either :

1.Putting the wrong people for this job calling out “balances” that end up making gamer experience worse.

2. Not listening to what the customer wants aka bad customer service. 
 

3. Because by doing these changes without polling us the users , they send our in game experience to trash, and also our investments in gems and such. And there is now way to fix this at will but every patch which gets more ee dee Oo teek  than the previous .

 

Any ideas? 
 

 

[Bern.9613]

3 hours ago, nopoet.2960 said:

By the way, which one of you told the devs there wasn't enough access to endurance in the acro line?

 

Also I can't figure out what elite the new hard to catch is supposed to enhance. Spinny knives already has evade.  Stony poison actually stops attacks so most likely don't need evades when you use it.  Hep Frenz! gets used in a safe space during the combat flow (this is actually hard to describe, does anyone know what I'm talking about?) I think this is a result of the casting time.  DD elite, hard cc again.  DE elite you're in stealth.  Specter elite, again your targets are being controlled.  Am I missing something?

No you're not missing anything. The "rework" falls in line with the disemboweling of SA. Give you less of something you already had, call it the best thing since sliced bread, then tell you it's not urine, it's raining.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 10/5/2022 at 11:08 AM, AikijinX.6258 said:

The next ‘balance’ I predict will be them just completely getting rid of SuperSpeed on stealth. They’ll notice that the nerf from 2s down to 1.5 wasn’t enough.

It doesn't even really affect deadeye rifle. Superspeed doesn't stack, so dodging on rifle used to give 2s of superspeed that got refreshed to 2s one second later, giving 3s total. Now it gives 1.5s then 1.5s one second later for 2.5s total superspeed. I'm not even sure the devs thought that through at all. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Thief gets 5 endurance on Shadowstep, vind gets literal perma dodge lmao , typical anet. Does the vind dodge at least do 1l0th of boundings dps?

Edited October 6, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

17 hours ago, Vismooth.4128 said:

  I think it's terribly funny that, out of all possible solutions, they've chosen to move ahead with the one that affects every possible variation of Specter in existence (effectively deleting one of them entirely and severely crippling the rest).
  Like, there are so many ways to do what they wanted without completely destroying the class, making it even more of a mess design-wise.
  With what we have right now, I wouldn't hope for much. Most of the feedback that had been provided since even the beta of EoD had been promptly discarded. Anet either don't have enough people to collect the data or simply don't care to go over it, as continuous prominence of specter's bugs suggests - and you don't even have to go far to replicate them, just move diagonally while casting twilight combo.
  Saying this, if we're to ponder hypothetical ways out of this putrid pit we've been placed into, what I think could work, is:
  First and probably the easiest, bring the shroud health coeff to 0.85. That'd make the health about 18-22k on average depending on the build. BUT, in addition to this change, rework Consume Shadows to take 10-50% (based on stacks) WITHOUT wiping the entirety of the shroud pool, healing exactly for the amount consumed. In addition to this, it would be great if the healing ALWAYS came out as 50% health healing (with overhealing translating into more barrier, like previous functionality) and 50% barrier to ENSURE rot wallow stacks are always applied and DPS is not affected.
  Second, more questionable from my perspective, is buffing Specter's personal torment application in the relevant places (which means not on the AAs, thanks🙂), while making a significant change to how rot wallow venom is applied. Instead of providing additional stacks of relatively low-duration torment, make it provide a small, albeit scalable with healing power, heal.
  This solves reliance on allies for damage and provides extra healing tools at the same time.
  My perspective is purely PvE based, so feel free to chime in where needed.

1 good thing we could do is make rotwallow applied to allies trigger leeching venoms to give them sustain, this would make for some nice team comps, make an f3 for an aoe heal/barrier based on remaining or current shadow shroud for an instant heal and or barrier whilst inside shroud on a 3s cooldown at cost of a % of shroud per use 

 

Scenario would be in non shroud team fight u can spam f3 for 1 initiative gain per foe struck on 3s cooldown (effected by alac) but also gain a chunk of shroud generation back while NOT in shroud...itll have some sort of aoe buff for 5 teammates like shadow armor or something or protections, switch to shroud, spamming it 3s dishes out barrier and heals based on vitality per use based on % of shroud and also gives 1 initiative per use and foe struck...another idea is allow a benefit per ally struck up to 5 but the caps would be 5 allies and 5 enemies, not just 5 TOTAL targets.

 

Throw in leeching venoms allowance of rotwallow and you are a true support. With both the mentioned changes. A shadow sunspot if u will

1. Sustain through leeching venoms + rotwallow

2. Aoe support and offense for all  build types (power, condi, support, healing, tank)

3. Different effects but both offensive and defensive buffs/utility from the new f3 in AND out if shroud

4. Excelling in single target ally support via rotwallow application  but having more group support than usual through barrier application and boons

@Double Tap

Edited October 6, 2022 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[AikijinX.6258]

42 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

1 good thing we could do is make rotwallow applied to allies trigger leeching venoms to give them sustain, this would make for some nice team comps, make an f3 for an aoe heal/barrier based on remaining or current shadow shroud for an instant heal and or barrier whilst inside shroud on a 3s cooldown at cost of a % of shroud per use 

 

Scenario would be in non shroud team fight u can spam f3 for 1 initiative gain per foe struck on 3s cooldown (effected by alac) but also gain a chunk of shroud generation back while NOT in shroud...itll have some sort of aoe buff for 5 teammates like shadow armor or something or protections, switch to shroud, spamming it 3s dishes out barrier and heals based on vitality per use based on % of shroud and also gives 1 initiative per use and foe struck...another idea is allow a benefit per ally struck up to 5 but the caps would be 5 allies and 5 enemies, not just 5 TOTAL targets.

 

Throw in leeching venoms allowance of rotwallow and you are a true support. With both the mentioned changes. A shadow sunspot if u will

1. Sustain through leeching venoms + rotwallow

2. Aoe support and offense for all  build types (power, condi, support, healing, tank)

3. Different effects but both offensive and defensive buffs/utility from the new f3 in AND out if shroud

4. Excelling in single target ally support via rotwallow application  but having more group support than usual through barrier application and boons

@Double Tap

That admittedly sounds broken asf. Good concept, but with it being effected by alac, you’ll pretty much have like a 80% up time if not more (I’m ball parking the math) by using this in a Zerg v Zerg setting or PvE Zerg. As well as getting initiative back per for struck. You’d pretty much always get refunded in ZvZ settings and there really would be no need for shroud, that would just be a bonus. 

The support would be off the charts. Without needing  to spec into healing power, since you said the healing and barrier and such scales off vitality. Good concept. But admittedly would just be another thing that people outcry over.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

27 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

That admittedly sounds broken asf. Good concept, but with it being effected by alac, you’ll pretty much have like a 80% up time if not more (I’m ball parking the math) by using this in a Zerg v Zerg setting or PvE Zerg. As well as getting initiative back per for struck. You’d pretty much always get refunded in ZvZ settings and there really would be no need for shroud, that would just be a bonus. 

The support would be off the charts. Without needing  to spec into healing power, since you said the healing and barrier and such scales off vitality. Good concept. But admittedly would just be another thing that people outcry over.

Require initiative to use it plus a shroud cost in both versions. No cooldown. Like 3 per use

[Zacchary.6183]

18 hours ago, nopoet.2960 said:

Also I can't figure out what elite the new hard to catch is supposed to enhance.

Pretty sure it was targeted towards specter since that is the secondary method of support Specter can provide: spamming sword 2 or d/p 3.

[Mincsk.6028]

On 10/5/2022 at 10:33 PM, Androx.8572 said:

It seems a big number of users are pissed off.

Myself included.

I propose we organize and punish Arena Net in a way for either :

1.Putting the wrong people for this job calling out “balances” that end up making gamer experience worse.

2. Not listening to what the customer wants aka bad customer service. 
 

3. Because by doing these changes without polling us the users , they send our in game experience to trash, and also our investments in gems and such. And there is now way to fix this at will but every patch which gets more ee dee Oo teek  than the previous .

 

Any ideas? 
 

 

Considering they nerf to destroy. like a civil war doctor amputating entire builds/especs. I just don't like having my favorite toys broken.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Mincsk.6028

[Kstyle.5829]

I don't understand how people think PVE is ruined by changes.  The whole point of PVE is to fight as a team and overcome a challenge.  If your complaint is that you are competing for dps in PVE then you're missing the point of PVE in the first place.  That's like being passive aggressive bc you're too afraid to confront people, if you want to fight people go do PVP.   At this point you can literally do PVE at the highest level with any spec in the entire game, and if someone tells you otherwise they are just bad... which wouldn't surprise me bc most PVE players are bad.  That's the real challenge of PVE.  Finding people who don't backpedal and click their abilities while looking straight down at their keyboard

[Eleandra.4859]

3 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

I don't understand how people think PVE is ruined by changes.  The whole point of PVE is to fight as a team and overcome a challenge.  If your complaint is that you are competing for dps in PVE then you're missing the point of PVE in the first place.  That's like being passive aggressive bc you're too afraid to confront people, if you want to fight people go do PVP.   At this point you can literally do PVE at the highest level with any spec in the entire game, and if someone tells you otherwise they are just bad... which wouldn't surprise me bc most PVE players are bad.  That's the real challenge of PVE.  Finding people who don't backpedal and click their abilities while looking straight down at their keyboard

I could answer you by dissecting your post and trying to counter your individual arguments, but I think given the quality of your post that would be a waste of time.

 

Following your general thought, it would be prudent to change thief's health to 1 hp, damage to 0 dps and give it absolutely no utility. This would qualify as a "change" and should be okay because you could still come together and overcome a challenge.

 

On a more serious note (in case you are, despite the content of your post, interested in a conversation): People in this thread are not against change, or afraid of changes, or feeling that "change" ruins PVE.

 

Actions have the capacity to lead to something good or bad depending on HOW they are executed, the general consensus seems to be that the specific set of changes introduced in the October 4th patch was done in a very poor way, and indeed did to some extend ruin certain game experiences.

 

On an additional note: Statistically speaking the probability that most other players in this game are roughly on your skill level is higher than the other way around. That means that everyone of us should dial down the arrogance towards their fellow gamers as long as they do not have objective evidence of their own superiority.

 

And before you embarrass yourself: Watch streams of people playing this game at the highest level and check out their verdict and see if it might differ from your own. This does not mean you have to abandon your opinion but it might hint at the fact that your opinion is actually not in line with the objective truth.

[Doggie.3184]

Do you think Shroud nerf would be less awful if they made ours unique in the aspect of it doesn't passive degen at all and is only reduced/broken from damage received?

Edited October 8, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Kstyle.5829]

5 hours ago, Eleandra.4859 said:

I could answer you by dissecting your post and trying to counter your individual arguments, but I think given the quality of your post that would be a waste of time.

 

Following your general thought, it would be prudent to change thief's health to 1 hp, damage to 0 dps and give it absolutely no utility. This would qualify as a "change" and should be okay because you could still come together and overcome a challenge.

 

On a more serious note (in case you are, despite the content of your post, interested in a conversation): People in this thread are not against change, or afraid of changes, or feeling that "change" ruins PVE.

 

Actions have the capacity to lead to something good or bad depending on HOW they are executed, the general consensus seems to be that the specific set of changes introduced in the October 4th patch was done in a very poor way, and indeed did to some extend ruin certain game experiences.

 

On an additional note: Statistically speaking the probability that most other players in this game are roughly on your skill level is higher than the other way around. That means that everyone of us should dial down the arrogance towards their fellow gamers as long as they do not have objective evidence of their own superiority.

 

And before you embarrass yourself: Watch streams of people playing this game at the highest level and check out their verdict and see if it might differ from your own. This does not mean you have to abandon your opinion but it might hint at the fact that your opinion is actually not in line with the objective truth.

Taking the extremes and using that as a straw man argument doesn't prove anything.  That's a hyperbolic emotional reaction pretending to appeal to reason.  The main issue I was addressing is that the issues PVE players complain about are baseless  the vast majority of the time.  PVP players wanting classes to be balanced matters because you are fighting each other.  PVE classes don't need to be as balanced because you are on the same team.  If they perceive one class as being bad it's usually that they are just bad because you literally can beat PVE with a combination of any spec in the game.  If you gave them 1 hp and did 0 damage this would not be true anymore and you would have a reason to complain. The balance is pretty good.   The question is are most people complaining because their class is literally too bad to complete PVE content?  No, it's that they are bad and can't face that fact.  They will find statistics that show their class is 1% underperforming compared to another, when it doesn't matter bc they aren't playing at maximum capacity anyway.  If you are good at this game you can literally make anything work in PVE.  And I know this because you can look on youtube and find people who have completed all areas of the game with every spec in the game. 

[Noko Anon.9154]

“Anecdote” is not the singular of “data”, and “can” is not synonymous with “should”.

PvE classes do need to be balanced with each other or else it creates a situation where only one class is permitted to fill a given role. This creates an artificial scarcity, which negatively impacts the mode. If only firebrand could bring quickness, every team would want a firebrand. That would make FB be a guaranteed slot for PvE content, which would encourage more players to make a FB. That reduces the number of other professions in the game. Fewer professions being played in favor for one class is bad game design. This is why other options need to be made available, like chromomancer, herald, and scrapper, to create more opportunities for other classes to be accepted into a team.

Now, perhaps a team wants to prove content can be done without alacrity or quickness. That’s fine. It -can- be done. However, that requires an agreement between at least five people, who then work together to be as efficient as possible for achieving a given objective. -Should- players doing PvE have to deal with a, say, tempest who refuses to bring alacrity, because the content can be completed without it? Of course not. Quickness and alacrity greatly speed up the fighting, and faster fights mean more content is cleared, which is a greater use of everyone’s time.

PvE is mostly about efficiency, which is where the struggle to balance the game comes from. Make a profession too efficient, and other professions complain; make it too inefficient as a result, like where we are with specter, and the players of said class will ask for it to be fixed.

[Kstyle.5829]

15 hours ago, Noko Anon.9154 said:

“Anecdote” is not the singular of “data”, and “can” is not synonymous with “should”.

PvE classes do need to be balanced with each other or else it creates a situation where only one class is permitted to fill a given role. This creates an artificial scarcity, which negatively impacts the mode. If only firebrand could bring quickness, every team would want a firebrand. That would make FB be a guaranteed slot for PvE content, which would encourage more players to make a FB. That reduces the number of other professions in the game. Fewer professions being played in favor for one class is bad game design. This is why other options need to be made available, like chromomancer, herald, and scrapper, to create more opportunities for other classes to be accepted into a team.

Now, perhaps a team wants to prove content can be done without alacrity or quickness. That’s fine. It -can- be done. However, that requires an agreement between at least five people, who then work together to be as efficient as possible for achieving a given objective. -Should- players doing PvE have to deal with a, say, tempest who refuses to bring alacrity, because the content can be completed without it? Of course not. Quickness and alacrity greatly speed up the fighting, and faster fights mean more content is cleared, which is a greater use of everyone’s time.

PvE is mostly about efficiency, which is where the struggle to balance the game comes from. Make a profession too efficient, and other professions complain; make it too inefficient as a result, like where we are with specter, and the players of said class will ask for it to be fixed.

I'll make this simple for you.  Lets say you take a group of the best classes in the game right now and have them played by noobs who have had this game for 1 month.  Now take the objectively WORST classes in the game.  Worst spec of worst class, and let them be played by the top 10 players in the whole game.  Do you think they wont be able to complete literally every single part of PVE content?  They easily will, and they will be bored doing it.  

 

PVE is really easy, in fact its designed for casual players who can't play this game at effective capacity.  If the group leader is class restricting he's an idiot.  The most important part of making a group is ensuring players are skilled, not that their class is "viable".  The main mistake PVE groups make is focusing on having the PERFECT distribution of utility/buffs/debuffs/dps/healing instead of vetting the players for ability.  Class balance is NOT perfect and it NEVER will be.  That's not realistic to expect, but it's good enough to do what needs to get done in PVE.   If you want perfectly homogenized classes that all do roughly the same DPS you can go play WoW. I personally find that boring.

 

The main takeaway is that the forum is full of people complaining about class balance.  This would lead you to believe the game has horrible balance.  The reality is that it has decent balance, and horrible players.  Players that don't have the self awareness to see that their bad performance is their own fault, not Anets.  

Edited October 10, 2022 by Kstyle.5829

[Noko Anon.9154]

You're talking about three different things. You're saying "bring the player, not the class" while also saying "PvE is too easy" and "PvE doesn't warrant balancing". Whether the content is easy or not doesn't matter, the issues we're discussing are "bring the player, not the class" and "PvE needs balancing". I agree with you. A good player can make a bad build work. (Please note that "can" does not mean "will be able to".) We aren't arguing you on this. We're pointing out that PvE for specter needs a reexamination. To make this simple for you, we're pointing out the difference between "can" and "have to".

Players liked playing the old specter. The old specter was a good build and gave thief something new to do. Now, specter can't perform like it used to. The specter we currently have is worse than the old specter. We aren't in a position anymore where someone "can" play a bad specter build, they "have to" play a bad specter build if they still want to play specter. Good, bad, or otherwise, if you want to play specter in its current state, compared to its previous one, it is now worse. How does specter compare to renegades and willbenders vying for the same role in PvE? Worse. Specter is put into a position where some baddies "have to" play renegade or willbender because they can't stand out of the flashing yellow circles and Shadow Shroud can't absorb the impacts like they used to rely on, and good players who want to play specter instead of willbender or renegade "have to" play a bad specter build. A group leader isn't the one class restricting, the current game's balancing state is class restricting by putting players into "have to" positions, rather than "can" ones.

Whether or not PvE is easy is irrelevant. We're discussing the feelings of the players, as well as the elite spec and how it compares to other professions in the current game state.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Noko Anon.9154
A typo.

[Zero.6725]

Healspecter was dead on arrival in large-scale WvW. Shroud does not last more than 2 seconds in fights. The last-minute group support additions to the shadow arts trait line were clunky. Instead of going for “nearby allies gain x upon entering or exiting stealth”, they chose a detrimental approach. Did you ever try to catch up to a fighting ally, drop a smoke field and blast it?

The recent balance patch put even more emphasis on the glaring issue: Specter lacks reliability.

The change to Well of Bounty added stability to a skill with cast time, that suffers from pathing issues. Thus making it unreliable.

Heal through shadow step forces you out of position each time. Infiltrator’s Strike is as bad as Measured Shot in fights that are not stationary.

The old 1.5 conversion was not remotely enough for large-scale WvW. The best option to support was to take Shallow Grave and ignore the shroud entirely. In your shroud, you are supposed to go ham on the enemy and cleave in order to maximize the support. The incoming damage does not allow you to do that at all. Shroud health is a limiting factor.

Consume shadows was only working during the beta without the 5 second penalty.

Even Siphon is unreliable. Do you want to build up Shadow Shroud, strip boons or give boons, then use it on an enemy and pray your allies do not need it. You should add another f-skill for the allied tether and make the 33% revive baseline.

 

Specter is supposed to be an offensive barrier support like scourge and not a boon heavy healer like Firebrand, Tempest or Druid. Currently it is barely hanging on in small-scale and roaming. Almost every other spec outshines it, because its niche is non-existent. Single target healing without additional value is bad. Thief is severely lacking in that regard.

 

The shroud nerf is slightly annoying for DPS Specter in PvE. Shroud is unreliable for people that do not dodge.

IMO it was a mistake to nerf it in PvE, sPvP and WvW if the issue was only in sPvP. It is the game mode with the least amount of damage, which made Specter tankier as it was supposed to be. Just get rid of the shroud health and add vitality to a minor trait. Buff Specter’s life to the likes of Warrior or Necromancer. While you are at it, make the shadow force generation abundant or get rid of it as well and turn shroud into a kit like photon forge.

[Kodama.6453]

On 10/6/2022 at 2:18 PM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

It doesn't even really affect deadeye rifle. Superspeed doesn't stack, so dodging on rifle used to give 2s of superspeed that got refreshed to 2s one second later, giving 3s total. Now it gives 1.5s then 1.5s one second later for 2.5s total superspeed. I'm not even sure the devs thought that through at all. 

Superspeed does stack, up to a maximum duration of 10 seconds.

It got changed in June 2021, more than 1 year ago.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

4 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Superspeed does stack, up to a maximum duration of 10 seconds.

It got changed in June 2021, more than 1 year ago.

Hmm. I definitely didn't feel like I was getting 4s of superspeed on deadeye rifle when I tried it, felt like 3s, so maybe I'm wrong there. Thanks for the heads up about superspeed tho haha