Do y’all consider dev time for suggestions you make.

[captrowdy.9561]

Y’all know they can’t just create this stuff out of thin air. It baffles me that people come up with these wild ideas and think it’s possible. 

[Balgorath.2604]

I'm pretty sure there's a huge difference between giving suggestions and demanding something be put in the game.....

[Khisanth.2948]

Pretty obvious the answer is no in many cases just from reading the post. Other times the poster tries to hand wave away because it will be accomplished by simply believing.

[DeanBB.4268]

They use computers, right? Just push a few buttons and it happens, right? 🤔

[sorudo.9054]

i am more annoyed by the people who think the devs never did anything, that they need to be pampered.

[Zaret.1450]

I think most of the "opinions" or posibilities we propose, for example in balance forums, arent realy because we ask exactly for that, or because we want them for yesterday, i for once think revenant is in need of a rework in energy and cooldown mecanic, do i think it is somwthing easy and that can be done in 2 days? no, but we should propose and they should answer, not every forum, not every day, but they should have people looking at balance and game proposals, and then make a post themselfs, like "we read several proposals on X class balance, for example this this and that, and we think its not viable, or it would take time or well work on it" having a one side comunication ends up being frustrating for many people too.

Also lately they have been making little changes, patches werent big but the changes were good, they can keep it that way and try to make comunication more fluidly and control more the forums. Win win situation

[Khisanth.2948]

7 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

I think most of the "opinions" or posibilities we propose, for example in balance forums, arent realy because we ask exactly for that, or because we want them for yesterday, i for once think revenant is in need of a rework in energy and cooldown mecanic, do i think it is somwthing easy and that can be done in 2 days? no, but we should propose and they should answer, not every forum, not every day, but they should have people looking at balance and game proposals, and then make a post themselfs, like "we read several proposals on X class balance, for example this this and that, and we think its not viable, or it would take time or well work on it" having a one side comunication ends up being frustrating for many people too.

Also lately they have been making little changes, patches werent big but the changes were good, they can keep it that way and try to make comunication more fluidly and control more the forums. Win win situation

The problem with most "balance" suggestions is that it would be more accurate to call them "imbalance" suggestions since they often tunnel vision on a single class or even a single build or role of a class.

[Balgorath.2604]

3 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The problem with most "balance" suggestions is that it would be more accurate to call them "imbalance" suggestions since they often tunnel vision on a single class or even a single build or role of a class.

Not to mention most people who scream for "balance" is because they just got owned in PvP and can't fathom that someone out-skilled them

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

For a couple of years, most of the suggestions and ideas I post on this board are strictly focused on consuming as little resources and development time as possible. Whenever there is an existing mechanic/feature that can be recycled/adjusted, I try to figure out a way to utilize it instead of creating something completely new. The highly complex stuff is mostly for entertainment and inspiration rather than "I want it to be exactly like that."

Regarding the processing time, I have no real expectations. What I have learned with the bug/exploit reports is that player-perspective and developer-perspective of 'important' are two completely different things. I've reported stuff that I considered game-breaking which was left untouched for years. On the other hand I remember reporting some minor bugs that got patched within <24h. As I am not a game-developer, I just assume that the suggestions/bugs/exploits have multiple layers, where I can only see one.

Whenever I see a player-suggested feature ingame, I smile. Even if I do not like it. It is progress and more than other MMORPGs do. Imo they implement a lot more player-suggestions than we are aware of. I just wish some players would not be so aggressive with their requests. 

[Ashen.2907]

It is not my job as a consumer to analyze a company's labor model, staffing, productivity, etc. I, as a customer, can suggest what would convince me to spend more on the company's product, or keep using it at all. It is then up to the company to determine whether or not my suggestion is actionable, or worth considering in light of THEIR knowledge of the complexity of the product and their available resources. Again, not my job to do that for them.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Sarius.9285]

16 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

It is not my job as a consumer to analyze a company's labor model, staffing, productivity, etc. I, as a customer can suggest what would convince me to spend more on the company's product, or keep using it at all. It is then up to the company to determine whether or not my suggestion is actionable, or worth considering in light of THEIR knowledge of the complexity of the product and their available resources. Again, not my job to do that for them.

only correct answer in here

[Dawdler.8521]

How long would people estimate the dev time it takes to make a roughly 4x2 meter 3D box with 10 polygons (dont need the bottom), complete with an already existing game texture?

The cornerstone in WvW has been broken and invisible for 5+ years. 

ANET has released 2 full expansions and countless living stories in the time they've failed to dedicate the dev time needed for this.

Aaaaaaaaaany year now. 

That kitten is complicated!

Will it ever be possible?!??!

[Khisanth.2948]

24 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

It is not my job as a consumer to analyze a company's labor model, staffing, productivity, etc. I, as a customer can suggest what would convince me to spend more on the company's product, or keep using it at all. It is then up to the company to determine whether or not my suggestion is actionable, or worth considering in light of THEIR knowledge of the complexity of the product and their available resources. Again, not my job to do that for them.

Sure if all you are doing is just suggesting "so and so should exist" but is that what OP was referring to?

This is just me jumping to conclusions and making assumptions but I think OP is referring to the more demanding and entitled posts. Partly because those seem to be a lot more common.

[Cyninja.2954]

43 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

It is not my job as a consumer to analyze a company's labor model, staffing, productivity, etc. I, as a customer can suggest what would convince me to spend more on the company's product, or keep using it at all. It is then up to the company to determine whether or not my suggestion is actionable, or worth considering in light of THEIR knowledge of the complexity of the product and their available resources. Again, not my job to do that for them.

This.

What does become an issue is when suggestions turn into expectations, which occasionally happens for some players. They start to expect that their suggestion get implemented.

Otherwise useful or thought-out suggestions even if they are outside of the scope can be useful for the developers in their future designs and ideas.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

What does become an issue is when suggestions turn into expectations, which occasionally happens for some players. They start to expect that their suggestion get implemented.

Otherwise useful or thought-out suggestions even if they are outside of the scope can be useful for the developers in their future designs and ideas.

Agreed. 

A suggestion is radically different than a demand or a claim of entitlement.

Early on I suggested weapon dying, even if it required special dyes that were bought with gems or were rare drops, as a means of expanding character customization. ANet has since said that implementing this would not be feasible with the resources available, particularly considering how deep into the code they would have to go. Ok. I, and others, recognized that the opportunity cost of making this change was not worth it, shrugged our shoulders, occassionally say something to the effect of, "oh well, wouldnt it have been nice," and got on with our exploring of the game...no harm, no foul.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Sure if all you are doing is just suggesting "so and so should exist" but is that what OP was referring to?

This is just me jumping to conclusions and making assumptions but I think OP is referring to the more demanding and entitled posts. Partly because those seem to be a lot more common.

He said, "suggestions,"  and, "wild ideas," not demands, entitlement, etc. Perhaps he meant other than what he said, but my response is to what he said, not some guessed at ulterior meaning.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Balgorath.2604]

27 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

He said, "suggestions,"  and, "wild ideas,"  ot demands, entitlement, etc. Perhaps he meant other than what he said, but my response is to what he said, not some guessed at ulterior meaning.

Thing is, more often than not suggestions turn into, "Wtf is wrong with this dev team?  Why couldn't they just add an extra hair follicle on my Charr so their hair would look more complete.  Are these "insert expletive" devs "insert expletive" incompetent?"  

 

Maybe not so much here as I'm aware that the moderating team of these forums are pretty heavy handed on shutting down discontents 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Balgorath.2604

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

It is not my job as a consumer to analyze a company's labor model, staffing, productivity, etc. I, as a customer can suggest what would convince me to spend more on the company's product, or keep using it at all. It is then up to the company to determine whether or not my suggestion is actionable, or worth considering in light of THEIR knowledge of the complexity of the product and their available resources. Again, not my job to do that for them.

Suggestions should always be welcomed. Even the wildest ones will sometimes turn into something really good for the game after they had been refined. It's particularly annoying to me when some poster will dismiss them completely because they will take "resources away from some mysterious projects". Give the Devs some credit. They wouldn't be doing what they do if they can't discern the good from the bad (not saying they can't be wrong). They need ideas to work with. I really don't care if those regular posters "prefer resources be allocated somewhere else". It's not your call.

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

What does become an issue is when suggestions turn into expectations, which occasionally happens for some players. They start to expect that their suggestion get implemented.

And if they don't see changes to what they want personally, then they'll hurl abuse at Anet. "My class just got nerfed. Anet sucks". "The Devs are stupid. They can't balance anything.", etc., etc.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Ashen.2907]

16 minutes ago, Balgorath.2604 said:

Thing is, more often than not suggestions turn into, "Wtf is wrong with this dev team?  Why couldn't they just add an extra hair follicle on my Charr so their hair would look more complete.  Are these "insert expletive" devs "insert expletive" incompetent?"  

 

Maybe not so much here as I'm aware that the moderating team of these forums are pretty heavy handed on shutting down discontents 

The possibility that some might turn a suggestion into something rude does not mean that suggestions are a bad thing. People can be whiny, obnoxious, jerks about everything, this does not mean that there should be nothing in order to avoid giving them something to complain about. Can you imagine developing a product where every single possible idea is nixed because some customer somewhere might complain?

[Ashen.2907]

19 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Suggestions should always be welcomed. Even the wildest ones will sometimes turn into something really good for the game after they had been refined. It's particularly annoying to me when some poster will dismiss them completely because they will take "resources away from some mysterious projects". Give the Devs some credit. They wouldn't be doing what they do if they can't discern the good from the bad (not saying they can't be wrong). They need ideas to work with. I really don't care if those regular posters "prefer resources be allocated somewhere else". It's not your call.

And if they don't see changes to what they want personally, then they'll hurl abuse at Anet. "My class just got nerfed. Anet sucks". "The Devs are stupid. They can't balance anything.", etc., etc.

In my opinion, if they are the kind of person to be abusive over a balance issue, or something of the sort, then they will find something to be abusive about no matter what ANet does. 

[Balgorath.2604]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

The possibility that some might turn a suggestion into something rude does not mean that suggestions are a bad thing. People can be whiny, obnoxious, jerks about everything, this does not mean that there should be nothing in order to avoid giving them something to complain about. Can you imagine developing a product where every single possible idea is nixed because some customer somewhere might complain?

No one is saying suggestions are bad.  No one.  People are saying entitled clowns who make demands, which tend to drown out the actual suggestions, are the problem as they tend to be the loudest and most obnoxious

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, Balgorath.2604 said:

No one is saying suggestions are bad.  No one.  People are saying entitled clowns who make demands, which tend to drown out the actual suggestions, are the problem as they tend to be the loudest and most obnoxious

In the post I responded to the point was made that a suggestion could turn into something abusive. I was just attempting to point out that ANet cannot take some loudmouth's inclination to mouth off as somehow a reflection of suggestions. The fact that something good (anything good actually) can be turned into something bad by someone intent on doing so is irrelevant to the effort to do that good thing. My apologies if my wording was misleading

[Danikat.8537]

I don't think it would be practical for players to make that judgement in a lot of cases, because we don't know enough about game development or what else Anet has scheduled to know how much time it will take. This comes up frequently in my job (which is not game development) even though I only deal with people who work in the same field I do. Their estimates of how long something will take are often irrelevant to me because they don't know all the steps which will be involved (which is why they're talking to me - to find that out). It's much better for them to tell me what they need to happen and if there's a deadline and then I can tell them how long that will take. (And it's exactly the same for me when the process is reversed - things I think will take ages might be simple and my 'quick fix' could be so complicated it's not worth considering.)

On that note I think it's important to remember that a lot of players are leaving the time aspect entirely up to Anet - it's rare for someone to suggest something and say when they want it by. Even with time-sensitive things like ideas for the next festival it may just be when they had the idea, they rarely say they want it by the next time that festival comes along. So they may well be aware that their idea would take a lot of time, and expect Anet to schedule it appropriately, or they're aware they have no idea and so don't specify at all.

Anet can and do produce big pieces of work which will take the entire company months to finish - like expansions. It's not like they only ever do tiny incremental updates or minor changes, so I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest bigger things too and unless someone specifies I think it is unreasonable to assume they're expecting it quickly.

Also I think it's important to remember that not all ideas posted on this forum are suggestions, certainly not realistic ones. Earlier today I posted an idea I have for an entire new game. The fact that I posted it does not make it a suggestion or mean I'm expecting Anet to actually make it, so the time it may take is irrelevant. I just wanted to share the concept with other players and see if it would interest them, exactly like I would on fan forums for other games where I'm certain the developers will never see anything that gets posted.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Danikat.8537

[IvoryOwl.3275]

I don't expect every single piece of feedback to matter but there's a chance some of it might. 
Also, sometimes, what's being suggested isn't as important as showing interest and engaging with the community and devs.

Imagine an early-access game and the people who write (negative) feedback about it. There's always someone who tries to dismiss such criticism by pointing out the game is still in its early stages and everything is liable to change. That person forgets the devs aren't omniscient; that they can overlook things and make mistakes. The point of early access is to accrue some funds and receive feedback.

You can either wait for things to change by themselves (and risk waiting forever) or you can be the agent of change and make it happen yourself. A cool suggestion (that wasn't planned) may be added just because a lot of people asked for it. A community that shows little interest in the game (or is mostly inactive), doesn't do a whole lot of the game and just extends the amount of time it remains in early access.

You lose nothing by asking.


 

Edited October 12, 2022 by IvoryOwl.3275

[Gryphon.2875]

17 minutes ago, IvoryOwl.3275 said:

A cool suggestion (that wasn't planned) may be added just because a lot of people asked for it. A community that shows little interest in the game (or is mostly inactive), doesn't do a whole lot of the game and just extends the amount of time it remains in early access.

You lose nothing by asking.


 

Mounts, for example.