ToT Value is gona crash hard cause they removed all the food and utility drops. [Merged]

[X T D.6458]

They removed the food/utility consumables from the Wintersday gifts too 😒. Really disappointing move by Anet, and this could have been easily avoidable by making these items not produce research notes from salvaging. No point in opening unless you want to gamble for a rare item and good luck with that.

[Kuraito.9162]

Can we get some Dev input on this one? Is it intentional that now the only way to get these utility items is a recipe that costs up to 50s a pop, making them basically useless items? This is one of the few times I've ever really wanted to speak to a dev about a change made.

[Moradorin.6217]

They could have just made them all non-salvageable or made new item IDs for identical items that are non-salvageable and repopulate the boxes with those. Im pretty sure I have seen them do a simple ID change of identical items before kinda like that. *shrug*

 

Seems thoughtless or mean spirited. Its hard to tell what the real reasoning was beyond the research pages.

[branwen.1049]

44 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Seems thoughtless or mean spirited. Its hard to tell what the real reasoning was beyond the research pages.

Yeah, it definitely takes the spirit of the holiday out of the event losing the treats and goodies the bags had solely because they don't want people who don't use them for actual game utility using them as research note salvage instead 😕

[Vampirikfox.6421]

Wow this sucks. And the same for the Wintersday Festival.

 

Sure would be nice if enough people flooded the forum to get them to revert this change., or make the food items un salvageable...I actually used the food items. It certainly makes the Festivals less fun...

[Ashantara.8731]

I really hope they will reconsider and bring the food items back.

[Farohna.6247]

17 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I really hope they will reconsider and bring the food items back.

I really hope so too, it really feels lacking to just get toilet paper and eggs.  Treats, Anet, treats!  Let's hope this year is a learning experience.  

[X T D.6458]

10 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

I really hope so too, it really feels lacking to just get toilet paper and eggs.  Treats, Anet, treats!  Let's hope this year is a learning experience.  

The toilet paper will be used to wipe tears after Anet makes bad decisions. And we can always throw the eggs at Asura'

[itspomf.9523]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:59 AM, wolfyrik.2017 said:

Fully agree. Research notes are dreadful and this cheap move of removing the staple that was halloween buffs and utilities, is just plain nasty and makes me resent them more, too.

They've taken away something that's fun and has been around so long that it has an element of nostalgia for us all, something that people look forward to every year, just so that we have to engage with something that we already have to engage with.

For anyone not interested in the cantha content, all Anet have done, is take something away.

 

Disappointing, pointless, cynical. Arguably mean spirited. There is no positive for players in this move.

Yeah, this is probably the last Halloween for me.  Might even skip Wintersday this year.

... though at least my tendons will thank me for not grinding Bell Hero for days.

[Danikat.8537]

So far it doesn't look like there's been any significant drop in ToT prices. It always drops to around 3-4s during Halloween (and peaks around June or July) and this year is so far matching the pattern from previous years.

I'm not sure if that's because it's taking a long time for the majority of players to notice that the food is missing or if it wasn't a significant factor in why they'd buy bags and so isn't putting them off this year. I can't really comment on that myself because I only bought bags in 2014 when I was trying to get the mini Gwynefyrdd.

[Luthan.5236]

Only keeping bags for myself - I do not buy/sell. With other festivals I had a bit more luck with the Kodan vendor weapons. (Cheaper from getting them myself than buying directly. While the new daily 3 bags ... I never got one of the new weapons.)

There might be people that still try for the new weapons from the Kodan vendor. Afaik those can be in the bags. Though they are "super rare". Appearing much less than the ones from the previous festivals. The people selling big - that could drop prices - probably all are professional farmers that must have noticed that the food is gone.

Buying ... I don't know? Would people buy the bags in huge amounts for the food - instead of buying the food directly? Prices should balance itself. Before the change the food would have to drop as well - to make buying food directly vs. buying the bags ... somethat similar. (Bag slightly more expensive cause it can have chance for better stuff maybe. Or cheaper because of the lot of trash that also drops? :D)

Certainly the prices of the food items itself ... should increase though. If they need to be crafted to be sold - which is more costly than getting them from bags.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Labjax.2465]

On 10/20/2022 at 3:15 PM, Wild.1705 said:

I feel the same as many others. Don't like research notes and miss my "TREATS" in my trick-or-treat bags.

 

I recently learned of a design process in school called "design thinking". It is unique in that it tries to understand it's audience's needs as well as critical thinking. Here is a simple quote explaining the basic concept

 

"Design Thinking is an iterative process in which we seek to understand the user, challenge assumptions, and redefine problems in an attempt to identify alternative strategies and solutions that might not be instantly apparent with our initial level of understanding. At the same time, Design Thinking provides a solution-based approach to solving problems. It is a way of thinking and working as well as a collection of hands-on methods."
Source:Interaction Design.org

 

I'm not saying that design thinking would solve everything, but it should be somthing ArenaNet looks into, as I feel many of their recent design decisions (the siege turtle egg comes to mind) are fundamentally flawed.

 

They simply dont try and understand the feelings of others. In an MMO design space, this will ultimately lead to design decisions that negatively impact many people. Decisions like this.

 

 

I'm sure some of them consider how players feel some of the time, but there definitely appears to be a disconnect, overall. Decisions being made that appear to be focused on mechanical thinking over user experience... and if the user experience is subordinate to the mechanics of it, then what are you even doing at that point, ya know. I can't help wondering if there's a cynicism going on; this mindset like "people are going to complain no matter what, so just do what makes sense on paper and hope they don't complain too hard." I mean, they could be putting way more thought into it than we think, but unless they show their work, all we have to go on are the results. And in instances like these, the results look very foolish. This is one of the reasons I don't like the hush hush of it all. It leaves us to relentlessly speculate and try to fill in the blanks, but never really come to an airtight conclusion.

[Vampirikfox.6421]

I mean really the quick and simple solution is to reinstate the food in the festival bags/gifts and make them unsalvageable.

 

If they really want to allow people to craft food to salvage then they could tag that with a flag that designates it was crafted and not a drop so then it could be salvaged. Not sure how much difficulty/involvement that would be...

 

Definitely reminds me of a corporate mentality. "We implemented this change and it is terrible and people hate it but we are so committed to it we have to keep using it instead of cutting our losses and admitting our faults and rolling back."

[Kuraito.9162]

Still not happy about this change. Are we going to get any comment from a Dev on if we can expect a rollback on this decision?

[Vampirikfox.6421]

How do you engage or get Dev attention? Not sure how frequently they go through the forums/reddit. 

 

 

[Danikat.8537]

We know they read the forum because sometimes they'll reply or changes are made to the game which were requested on the forum. But there's no way to make them reply to a topic and if they do it's more likely to be a vague "we'll consider the feedback" than a definitive answer. Once they've made their minds up to change something they'll just do it, rather than posting about it on the forum first.

In this case if ToT bags aren't changed by the end of Halloween, and more importantly (considering Halloween only has about a week left) if Wintersday gifts aren't updated to restore the food or add new ones, it's safe to assume they're confident in the change and think it's worth sticking with, regardless of what players think.

[Labjax.2465]

27 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

In this case if ToT bags aren't changed by the end of Halloween, and more importantly (considering Halloween only has about a week left) if Wintersday gifts aren't updated to restore the food or add new ones, it's safe to assume they're confident in the change and think it's worth sticking with, regardless of what players think.

Idk, I view it a bit more... cynically than that. I would say if that happens, it's safe to assume they believe the relative outrage surrounding it and damage done by it is not greater than the dev resources required to fix it, so they don't want to bother. If they were at all confident in the change, they could post about why they are confident that in spite of the outrage, they think it's worth sticking with. The way I see it, their silence implies they know it's a problem, but if they acknowledge it as a problem, now they will be expected to fix it and they don't want to bother. Maybe "want" is not quite the right word, but "don't believe they can justifying devoting resources to it" might be the more business way of putting it. If, for example, making the foods non-researchable as many have suggested, is a non-trivial change, then they prob don't want to do it in general, much less responsively. Of course, they could say that if that's the case, but that would be embarrassing, so. There's also just the fact that this problem relates to bigger problems with the whole research notes system, which we can only hope is at least prompting some internal discussions about how it should function going forward, but which we can't expect big changes to quickly. 😩

[Randulf.7614]

21 hours ago, Vampirikfox.6421 said:

How do you engage or get Dev attention? Not sure how frequently they go through the forums/reddit. 

 

 

You don’t. You just post and hope.

I agree though, this needs reversing for Wintersday. Completely unfair to the rest of us not going after research notes

[Moradorin.6217]

It doesnt seem like it would take much, but I am not a game designer. That said, I have seen plenty of functionally identical items that with different item IDs. Seems like all that would need to be done is make a list of the food/etility items to be swapped. Make new list of item IDs then assign them the same attributes as the old food but with the salvage value set of no then swap those IDs back into the boxes in the same place the old IDed food was? I mean in my casual coder mind that seems like a simple few minutes to make a script to run and do that for each item in the list. I dont expect them to, but just saying I dont think it would have been much if any more work to have made the food non-salvagable, but I know spagetti code. That said, they used to do ID changes allot on stuff like this.

[Moradorin.6217]

22 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Idk, I view it a bit more... cynically than that. I would say if that happens, it's safe to assume they believe the relative outrage surrounding it and damage done by it is not greater than the dev resources required to fix it, so they don't want to bother. If they were at all confident in the change, they could post about why they are confident that in spite of the outrage, they think it's worth sticking with. The way I see it, their silence implies they know it's a problem, but if they acknowledge it as a problem, now they will be expected to fix it and they don't want to bother. Maybe "want" is not quite the right word, but "don't believe they can justifying devoting resources to it" might be the more business way of putting it. If, for example, making the foods non-researchable as many have suggested, is a non-trivial change, then they prob don't want to do it in general, much less responsively. Of course, they could say that if that's the case, but that would be embarrassing, so. There's also just the fact that this problem relates to bigger problems with the whole research notes system, which we can only hope is at least prompting some internal discussions about how it should function going forward, but which we can't expect big changes to quickly. 😩

It deleted my response when I pasted this. Some times this forum is so bad...

TO be very brief. It seems like it would be trivial to me to have done an ID change and swap the IDs. Make a list of the food/util to change, make script to copy each items attributes to new item ID and swap the 2 IDs in the container? Im not a game designer just a casual coder, but seems like thats more or less what would be needed.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Rebecca.5816]

Hello again.  I posted one page 2 and want to post another update.

Again, I use those candy buffs on all 10 characters every minute of game play!  NOT great buffs but CHEAP buffs.  So look forward to every Halloween to stock up on the candy to last the next year!  Now ArenaNet, you have taken that away from me.

I also use those candies to make compost from to grow the seeds.  I spend almost 200 hours, 50 days of farming 4 hours a day, just for the seeds to grow in my garden for the next year.  You only allow us to plant 12 seeds per day.  I farm enough seeds to last a tad bit over a year, about 4,380 seeds.

Just to make ONE seed to grow requires:

5 fine/blue candies to compost                         current value                            13 silver 20 copper

5 master/green candies to compost                 current value                              8 silver 75 cooper

5 rare/yellow candies to compost                     current value                            13 silver 80 copper

10 exotic/gold candies  to compost                 current value                             32 silver 50 copper

5 piles compost starter                                       vendor price                                7 silver 48 copper

Total cost to craft JUST ONE Exquisite Extract of Nourishment needed for EACH seed =   75 silver 73 copper !

ANet, I defy you to show me just ONE seed on the AH which sells for over 80 silver!

 

I have enjoyed the farming and planting of these seeds for many years.  What good is trying to do that now when it costs more to craft the darn seeds than you can sell them for?

 

ANet, you say this is "your game"! True, you developed it and brought it to the world!  Thank you for that, it is a GREAT game!

But it stopped being "your game" when you brought other people into it and made them Guild Wars 2 family!

Each person playing GW2 is family in this game!  And they choose THEIR  play style to suit how they wish to enjoy the game.  Because GW2 is THEIR game also !

 

ANet, you make the decisions on what YOU want in the game and you force everyone else to either accept it or else.  It is YOUR game, correct?

 

I am kind of funny in that I personally feel EVERY person has the right to chose what they wish to do or not.  And NOT have decisions FORCED upon them which they do not want.

 

I have watched and waited to see you, ANet, correct this "misunderstanding" with the Halloween and Wintersday candy.  Return them to the bags!  So far ANet you have ignored we players who want the candy to stay in the bags.

 

Well, my farming and time and efforts mean NOTHING to you, Anet!

 

I will  finish out Halloween and will pop on and off every now and then until Wintersday, hoping to see you replace the candies in the bags.  IF you stand firm and refuse to replace the candies,  continue to ignore us players who WANT the candies, continue to remind everyone that this is indeed "YOUR GAME" and we players don't count, then my almost 8 years of association with YOUR GAME will come to an end!

11,618 hours 21 minutes, 2,759 days.

 

I REALLY enjoyed farming and planting and selling those seeds.  After all, what do you do when you have completed all the stories and maps 10 times!  I have all  the legendary items I want.  What is next?

Edited November 1, 2022 by Rebecca.5816

[Ashantara.8731]

On 10/20/2022 at 2:39 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

This is why they removed them btw.

Yes, because they couldn't tag them as non-salvageable with Research Kits instead.

There are so many ascended weapon drops from EoD strikes which you can't salvage, so how hard would it have been to do the same with festival-specific food?

This Halloween is not only boring but also has nothing of value to offer for me.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

24 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Yes, because they couldn't tag them as non-salvageable with Research Kits instead.

There are so many ascended weapon drops from EoD strikes which you can't salvage, so how hard would it have been to do the same with festival-specific food?

This Halloween is not only boring but also has nothing of value to offer for me.

Yeah, I got the AP that I wanted and went back to running EoD metas for Imperial Favor.

[Vampirikfox.6421]

Yea, just make the bag/gift drops not salvageable and make the crafted food "Grandma's whatever food name" and it can be salvageable. That to me sounds like the easiest solution.

 

I agree with the others, right now I log in do the dailies and log back off. Before I was constantly doing event things to get more bags/gifts. Now its just a waste of time. All you get is stupid tonics...hell make them salvageable instead of the food....at least that way they would then be useful...

 

 

[Vampirikfox.6421]

Has anyone seen any indication about fixing the bags/gifts food drops for festivals? I think when they removed them it was kinda buried and almost hidden if I read others correctly...