in future if new expansion will come, what option you prefer more of that 2 options?

[Parasite.5389]

Sure, you could make 3 new classes, each with 3 Elite.specs, which means the Devs are making 9 new specs in total, which would be the same workload as making 1 new elite.spec for all the current classes;  but what does that give the players?

people who main a single class, or don't have any spare character slots to make a new character(or the desire to delete and old one, or buy a new slots) aren't getting anything out of the expansion, save some new mastery features and maps they can access with a TP to friend

[Fueki.4753]

33 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

They seem to have tried with Virtuoso.

Theme: Music based mesmer

Mechanic: Phantasmal blades instead of phantasms.

???????

Other than the new Shatters being called "Bladesongs" and the Bloodsong Grandmaster trait, I don't see any connection to music at all.

And even then, the "song" part of these terms could simply refer to the sound the blades make when cutting through the air on the way towards their target.

I wouldn't say there's an actual Musical theme behind Virtuoso.

An easy achievable musical theme for Mesmer would be to replace Shatters with instrument-themed kits (similar idea to Firebrand).

Edited November 1, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Gibson.4036]

Just now, Fueki.4753 said:

Other than the new Shatters being called "Bladesongs" and the Bloodsong Grandmaster trait, I don't see any connection to music at all.

And even then, the "song" part of these terms could simply refer to the sound the blades make when cutting through the air on the way towards their target.

I wouldn't say there's an actual Musical theme behind Virtuoso.

That was kinda my point.

[Einsof.1457]

Anet can barely balance the 36 (9 core, 27 elite) specs we already have, and you guys want MORE?  I can't wrap my head around that. Expacs should have story content, new zones, new masteries, new raids/fractals/strikes, and all the other stuff. We shouldn't have new profs/elites ever again. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[Sarrs.4831]

New espec.

While it might feel a little formulaic for expansions to always come with new elite specializations, honestly I'm inclined to think that's good. What's the fundamental difference between bundling together LS4 into an expansion, and Path of Fire? Especs.

People are saying "i want cool maps out of an expansion" and "i want good story" yeah me too but they're built by different teams and they meet the wants of different playerbases. WvW and sPvP players want new toys to play with and new especs are basically all they get at the moment.

I don't know if I'd ever really want ANet to add new base classes to the game. I'd be very on-the-fence about it. If the idea was right, maybe I could be convinced, but honestly I'd be inclined to think "why was this not added as an Elite Spec" unless the idea was perfect.

What I'd love to see in an expansion, outside of elite specializations or new classes, would be new core specializations and weapons. I think that there would be a lot of cool options that could be added, like Necromancers getting Shields or Rangers getting offhand Swords. Engineers feel awkward to me because they don't have a Power-based offhand, and they've received Power mainhands for both of their last especs.

[Nash.2681]

On 10/31/2022 at 10:43 PM, Gehenna.3625 said:

To be fair, GW1 had the added issue of dual classes, which made things that much harder to balance. The dual class system was a nightmare from the start and that's why they didn't do it in GW2. 

Although, when I think about it, elite specs are the dual specs of GW2 as it turns out. I think that the worst thing they can do is bring out more elite specs. I mean, how much more inventive can they be within the same classes? The issue with new elite specs is that they do have to take the core classes into account and follow that pattern to at least a certain extent. 

That's why I think that if we do have to choose between the two that new classes are the better choice, because at least it gives the devs the freedom to start from scratch and think up something entirely new. Though 3 new classes would be a bit much. I would say one new class, so that quality can be maintained. It means that there will be fewer new skills than 9 elite classes as well, which frees up resources also to focus on something else.

More elite specs just makes things that much harder to balance because it's more complex than adding new classes, because you have to work within the framework of the core classes and I think that with some elite specs Anet already proved that they reached the end of their creativity...just like with the mounts. Whatever they do, it has to be something entirely new or nothing at all...imo.

You're correct about GW1 and the dual class system which lead to.... I don't remember the exact number of possible class and skill combinations, but it was really huge. And I also agree with your comparison on Elite Specs being the new dual classes. Would be interesting to see the number of possible build choices per class including all trait, weapon and utility skill choices. May be some1 with more time and who's better at math than I can do it. But I estimate the number already to be somewhere in the millions.

About your "one new class suggestion"- I can see where you're coming from and it might be a compromise, but I see quite an issue- what armor class should that new class wear? No matter what you chose, there will always be a big chunk of players favoring one of the two left out armor classes and thus be upset.

[illuminati.8453]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:55 AM, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

pick what you prefer more aut of that 2 options

I just want them to fix bugs.  There are so many frustrating moments in this game because of poor quality standards.  

[AppleSauce.4578]

3 new classes mean 9 new elite specs am I right

[Gehenna.3625]

23 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

You're correct about GW1 and the dual class system which lead to.... I don't remember the exact number of possible class and skill combinations, but it was really huge. And I also agree with your comparison on Elite Specs being the new dual classes. Would be interesting to see the number of possible build choices per class including all trait, weapon and utility skill choices. May be some1 with more time and who's better at math than I can do it. But I estimate the number already to be somewhere in the millions.

About your "one new class suggestion"- I can see where you're coming from and it might be a compromise, but I see quite an issue- what armor class should that new class wear? No matter what you chose, there will always be a big chunk of players favoring one of the two left out armor classes and thus be upset.

To be honest, it was just going by the OP's premise of having to choose between new classes or new elite classes. What I really want is that they revisit the core classes, pick one spec of the core class and buff it up a little and make it unavailable to the elite specs...but that wasn't an option. 

Just like GW1 had a main attribute that you couldn't use as a dual class. Strength for warrior, soul reaping for necromancers, etc. It could also solve the issue of core builds being weaker than elite specs because elite specs have access to all the core specs. I mean, just look at snowcrow builds and see how many of them are core builds (spoiler: it's zero).

It would give core builds a reason for being beyond being a pool for elite specs to use. And sure, I get that it might upset some of the things that elite specs can do, but that can be rebalanced or it might even be a good thing.

You're right though, no matter what Anet does, there will always be people that are happy and those that are upset. So yeah, it's not an ideal option, but I'd rather they do one thing properly than 3 things half-assed.

 

[Nash.2681]

4 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

To be honest, it was just going by the OP's premise of having to choose between new classes or new elite classes. What I really want is that they revisit the core classes, pick one spec of the core class and buff it up a little and make it unavailable to the elite specs...but that wasn't an option. 

Just like GW1 had a main attribute that you couldn't use as a dual class. Strength for warrior, soul reaping for necromancers, etc. It could also solve the issue of core builds being weaker than elite specs because elite specs have access to all the core specs. I mean, just look at snowcrow builds and see how many of them are core builds (spoiler: it's zero).

It would give core builds a reason for being beyond being a pool for elite specs to use. And sure, I get that it might upset some of the things that elite specs can do, but that can be rebalanced or it might even be a good thing.

You're right though, no matter what Anet does, there will always be people that are happy and those that are upset. So yeah, it's not an ideal option, but I'd rather they do one thing properly than 3 things half-assed.

 

I... actually really like this approach! Sure, one could argue, that this would just be some form of "Elite Spec light", but this idea surely has potential. 👍

And I definetly agree with your last sentence.

[Gibson.4036]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:03 AM, Nash.2681 said:

You're correct about GW1 and the dual class system which lead to.... I don't remember the exact number of possible class and skill combinations, but it was really huge.

10 professions if you have all campaigns. 90 possible permutations.

[Hashberry.4510]

Just think what more of a dud EoD would have been without elite specs. Thats what you will get.

[Cuks.8241]

I would prefer a new class, one is enough with 3 especs. And they take the time with it and make it fun and unique. 

Especs are already bloated. There are a few I havent even tried yet or barely touched them.

[Nash.2681]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

10 professions if you have all campaigns. 90 possible permutations.

I can count, thanks ^^. I was talking about all possible combinations of classes, attribute values and skills what made balancing flat out impossible. Those summed up to an impressive number in the millions, if not billions.

[Caille.7214]

How about you learn it's spelled ''ballance'' and not ''belluns'' first?

[Hindenburg.3415]

Neither.

I would like to see higher quality maps ( at least on HOT level ) and new dungeons.

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

I can count, thanks ^^. I was talking about all possible combinations of classes, attribute values and skills what made balancing flat out impossible. Those summed up to an impressive number in the millions, if not billions.

My apologies. No offense intended.

[Nash.2681]

11 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

My apologies. No offense intended.

No offense taken, just wanted to clarify what I ment since apparently there was room for interpretation.

[Drakz.7051]

Fresh new classes because we know they'd do new elite specs anyway. Plus those new classes would get 3 elite specs each for the previous expansions 🤣

But I know this is just a dream, they should add Dervish as an elite spec for Guardian though and have it work similar to how Gunsaber for bladesworn works.