Reaper Changes Feedback - 29 November balance preview

[God.5728]

I am reposting this quote so that this informative post does not get lost in the sea of comments in the official thread.

I hope Reaper gets more attention.

Just like how the community managed to get Arenanet to revert the scrapper well changes, I am hoping we can get some real changes done to Reaper and not this weak sauce update that doesn't even touch on it's outdated traits and shout skills.

@Westet.3068

Quote

Hey all,

I don't often post stuff on here but I'm hoping one more voice could help bring more attention to reaper. The changes shown for reaper are nice and a step in the right direction again, but at that pace no one will be playing reaper for the next 5 years.

The issue is that it's just not enough. Yes shroud 2 and 5 are now better than simply doing one auto attack chain in shroud and yes doing a gravedigger instead of a greatsword auto chain would theoretically be better, it's not accounting for the fact that in both of those cases you're not using skill that generate life force.

For some strange reason reaper which was already the only class to lose all its damage when getting hit got nerfed and takes more damage in shroud and will now be even more starved for life force. From my rough testings these changes will only result in a dps increase of about 6-7%, potentially beating some support builds.

It's nice to see some love for reapers but we just need so much more to not be a complete joke of a dps build... We still run the same horrid elite skill that does nothing and just mindlessly attack on its own, the only alternative is there for precasting on some fights and it's not even that big of an increase, greatsword auto is still horrifyingly bad and we're still not on par with what we used to be before the unique buffs removal.

Even if we were, 34k for a benchmark is horrendous when you consider the fact that you basically cannot take damage because it'll drop your dps below the healers and the burst is nowhere near what good options can dish out. It's a sad build that you only play because you want to but you know you're making it harder for everyone in the squad by inherently doing A LOT less dps than what you could be doing on something like bladesworn.

The cooldown reduction on nightfall is nice but will probably not amount to anything significant, you still need to use both well of darkness and well of suffering which still have a 25 seconds cd so no rotation changes there, not accounting for the fact that shroud is still gated behind a cooldown on top of needing life force which you generate barely any of while below 50%.

What I wish we could get for reaper is a big buff to all shroud coefficients to finally justify the life force struggles, greatsword/staff/axe buffs as well as an offhand buff because we still have no viable offhand on necromancer, be it for power or condi which is kind of hard to imagine, and a lich form rework because let's face it, it feels extremely outdated as it stands and could have so much potential to bring an interesting rotation. Make it have next to no cast time and usable skills so that reaper's rotation would look like something other than shroud auto attacks. We need better traits too and as it stands reaper is simply not going to be a good pick. Benchmark damage will be too low, actual fight damage will be a lot lower than other classes because of the life force situation and you still don't provide anything to your team to justify any of it. The only thing you can bring is dps and you're not bringing more than supports so why would you ever play reaper.
I hope this can be useful.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by God.5728

[Apokriphos.7042]

From a WvW perspective, I think the changes to necromancer are extremely disappointing. 

Not only is the latest spec completely invalidated by any sort of projectile block, but core, scourge and reaper usefulness in any particular fight is at best a delay, and usually a free bag. They are definitely the first class I target in any engagement. 

I am surprised no one else is complaining about the state of necromancer in WvW. Its terrible.

[captrowdy.9561]

32 minutes ago, Apokriphos.7042 said:

From a WvW perspective, I think the changes to necromancer are extremely disappointing. 

Not only is the latest spec completely invalidated by any sort of projectile block, but core, scourge and reaper usefulness in any particular fight is at best a delay, and usually a free bag. They are definitely the first class I target in any engagement. 

I am surprised no one else is complaining about the state of necromancer in WvW. Its terrible.

There’s scourges all over wvw. Pretty important for groups. Reaper could use a buff but harb is one of the best roamers. 

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

4 hours ago, Apokriphos.7042 said:

I am surprised no one else is complaining about the state of necromancer in WvW. Its terrible.

Reaper is useless in a 1vs1 fight against anything but other necros. We can't escape or catch anything so roaming is a no-no for us.

in a zerg tho, once you learn how to play properly and start ignoring those memebattle builds, you'll realize how good a Reaper can be in big fights.

[Subli.8217]

Hi. Just stopping by to say that I find the reaper buffs rather underwhelming. 

Here are some ideas that I feel would help power builds for necromancers, not just reaper.
 

1. Buff focus, dagger and axe
2. Buff Death Magic to be able to spec into damage increase rather than defense increase
3. Add an elite well, elite signet because they are missing! Spectral healing skill too
4. If you're reducing Nightfall cooldown then also reduce the well of darkness and well of suffering cooldown to match, because otherwise it will feel out of sync
5. Make signets work in shroud (the signet trait would still be an upgrade if someone wants to spec into signets)
6. Make staff marks give life force and be unblockable by default, add a new trait to Soul Reaping
7. (Optional) completely rework staff skills because 4 circles on the ground is boring design when we could cast actual interesting, necrotic spells

[AlopiasGW.1932]

I think ANET wanted to buff Power Reaper but in the end Condi Reaper will be king. That 8 to 3 second reduction will have a big impact on the trait deathly chill....I think

[Oberwaldmeister.8239]

5 hours ago, Sublimatio.6981 said:

Hi. Just stopping by to say that I find the reaper buffs rather underwhelming. 

Here are some ideas that I feel would help power builds for necromancers, not just reaper.
 

1. Buff focus, dagger and axe
2. Buff Death Magic to be able to spec into damage increase rather than defense increase
3. Add an elite well, elite signet because they are missing! Spectral healing skill too
4. If you're reducing Nightfall cooldown then also reduce the well of darkness and well of suffering cooldown to match, because otherwise it will feel out of sync
5. Make signets work in shroud (the signet trait would still be an upgrade if someone wants to spec into signets)
6. Make staff marks give life force and be unblockable by default, add a new trait to Soul Reaping
7. (Optional) completely rework staff skills because 4 circles on the ground is boring design when we could cast actual interesting, necrotic spells

Tbh this

Like the Idea for signets.
Elite Skill decision should not only be "cc bot" Or "big lich but its only usefull for 1 of its abilities for a slightly better burst even though pReaper doesnt has a >>burst<<"

 

And just a few Ideas from my side (may be overlapping with already meantioned Ideas)  (PvE):

- adjust GS AA (faster and/or more dmg)
- give GS more Life Force Generation
- compensate the precision losses from last patches
- make a second weapon set more attractive and fun to use for a power DPS class (Axe/Wh/Focus/Staff...)

Im not sure, but maybe it would be nice to revert the dmg reduction change from 50% to 33%. Could be biased opinion.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Oberwaldmeister.8239

[Dadnir.5038]

 

Quote

 

Core

• Corrupt Boon (PvP only): Reduced ammunition from 2 to 1. Increased number of boons converted into conditions from 2 to 5. Increased cooldown from 24 seconds to 30 seconds.
• Spectral Armor (PvP and WvW): Reduced duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 30 seconds.
• Signet of Spite: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Signet of the Locust (PvP and WvW): Increased healing per target struck from 500 to 800. Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.

 

• While those are not thrilling, the necromancer can live with it.

• Quote

  Soul Barbs: Increased duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE only.

  The most impactful change of this patch. This will allow smoother rotations and longer time spent in shroud, so, theoretically, that's where most of the dps increase will be.

Quote

Chilling Nova: Reduced cooldown from 8 seconds to 3 seconds in PvE only

A nice buff in PvE for condi reaper.

• Quote

   

  • Nightfall: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
  • Dusk Strike: Increased power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.2 in PvE only.
  • Chilling Scythe: This skill now reduces the recharge of Gravedigger when striking an enemy.
  • Death's Charge (PvE only): Increased power coefficient of initial strikes from 0.125 to 0.25. Fixed an issue that prevented the damage of the initial strikes from being listed on this skill's tooltip.
  • Executioner's Scythe (PvE only): Increased power coefficient against targets at or above 50% health to 3.0. Increased power coefficient against targets below 50% health to 4.0. Increased power coefficient against targets below 25% to 5.0.

   

  These will likely have close to 0 impact on the reaper. Still it's always nice to get number buffs.

   

  Quote

   

  • Feed from Corruption: The following boon applications from this trait have been adjusted in WvW only:

  • Might: Reduced stacks from 3 to 1.
  • Protection and resolution: Reduced duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds.
  • Regeneration: Reduced duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds.
  • Stability: Reduced from 2 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 3 seconds.
  • Vigor: Reduced duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds.

   

  Those nerfs likely won't be as impactful as they appear to be.

 

All in all, that's an unimpressive patch note for the necromancer.

[Strider.7849]

Would've liked to see them increase the bleed stacks on deathly chill to 2 in pvp/wvw for condi reaper. Right now against a live opponent I'm only average around 12-16 stacks of bleed. The problem is, versus if I had gone power reaper, said opponent would've been in down state with a comparable  number of hits before it even reached half those stacks.

[Juan.6124]

15 hours ago, Apokriphos.7042 said:

From a WvW perspective, I think the changes to necromancer are extremely disappointing. 

Not only is the latest spec completely invalidated by any sort of projectile block, but core, scourge and reaper usefulness in any particular fight is at best a delay, and usually a free bag. They are definitely the first class I target in any engagement. 

I am surprised no one else is complaining about the state of necromancer in WvW. Its terrible.

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/necromancer/boonstrip-scourge/

Scourge has been a meta defining spec in WvW since PoF came out, but hey.

Edited November 12, 2022 by DirtyDan.4759

[Raizel.8175]

Going to copy this from my post in the general thread:

Necromancer

• The increased Soul Barb duration could be nice to have to Harbinger, but will be more or less useless for Reaper since Reaper bleeds to much life force due to how Reaper Shroud works and due to the nerfs to Reaper's Shroud. Either rework a trait to make Reaper Shroud work like Harbinger Shroud as a DPS option or increase overall life force generation or buff Reaper's Shroud again.
• Increasing the damage of Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe won't help much since you rather want to avoid using these skills in order to maintain a decent amount of life force. Your main DPS skills in Shroud are the auto-attack-chain and Soul Spiral anyway. The other skills are predominantly used for their functionality.
• I do like the idea of Chilling Strike reducing the CD of Gravedigger as this makes the auto attack chain more rewarding. In that sense, I'd increase the overall damage of Gravedigger in exchange for the below 50% gimmick though. That gimmick was always one of the reasons why Reaper had such a bad reputation after all.
• What has not been adressed are the massive lack of precision on Reaper - using Thief runes and thus needing to flank on a Melee bruiser is ridiculous - and Reapers 2nd weapon set. There need to be some buffs and/or redesign of core pDPS weapons like Axe, Focus and/or Warhorn.

[Dadnir.5038]

11 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

The increased Soul Barb duration could be nice to have to Harbinger, but will be more or less useless for Reaper since Reaper bleeds to much life force due to how Reaper Shroud works and due to the nerfs to Reaper's Shroud. Either rework a trait to make Reaper Shroud work like Harbinger Shroud as a DPS option or increase overall life force generation or buff Reaper's Shroud again.

You should consider that peoples were already pushing their rotation beyond the 10s mark on reaper in order to squeeze an additional AA chain. This change offer the reaper more room to abuse RS high dps AA chain and, incidentally, reduce the instances in which you wouldn't have been able to catch up to your Wells CD and soul spiral.

For once, It's a QoL change and we should always be welcoming to QoL changes.

[Gaeb.2837]

I welcome the changes for Reaper (Soul Barbs change is a good minor buff for Harb and Scourge too), but there's still some fundamental things I wish ANET would revisit: Reaper Shouts   

  

• Chilled To The Bone is flat out worse than Flesh Golem in PVE, and should be strictly better than it in group content (strike/raid/fractal). Flesh Golem has a nice position it won't be dislodged from in solo or open world content as a second HP bar/tank, provides constant damage over time (670 DPS unbuffed per wiki) with no direction required, constantly applies Crippled, and provides a 332 defiance bar / knockdown on demand (and ~at range) on 40s cooldown with 3/4 cast time. CTTB, in comparison, just SUCKS: 5/4s cast time, 90s cooldown (THE COOLDOWN IS 30s SHORTER IN PVP/WVW!), aoe 2s stun for 200 defiance damage, 4s chill, and 2 stacks of 10s stability (on a 5/4s cast time - like, really ANET, this isn't remotely an emergency button of a skill. The cast time is insane) which doesn't really add value in group content (both because of support providing stab and because the cast time is SO LONG + can't be used in shroud to begin with). 
   
• PROPOSED Chilled To The Bone: 1/2s cast time, 40s cooldown, 2 stacks of 5s stability, 600 radius 1s stun on cast, and drop 600 radius well with 5 pulses (1x / second) of ~6k strike damage per pulse (6k at full raid buffs) + 2s chill per pulse + 2s weakness per pulse for 5 seconds. That's similar DPS (but stationary and not automatic, the 5x chill would create 5x bleed in a condi build), more defiance damage, on a similar cooldown, and thematically creates a zone of strength for the Reaper (enemy has chill/weakness/takes damage if they stay close) which makes sense for an up-close bruiser. Drop the weakness if it's too OP but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask... I think this would also be a reasonable PVP/WVW iteration (with tweaked numbers - not an expert on Reaper PVP).   
   
• Utility Shouts Suck In Group PVE - I don't know how this is still the case. There's some defensive utility in Rise (pets/tanking) and You Are All Weaklings (stunbreak/buffs/weakness aoe) that have some viability solo, but none really make muster for an offensive ability that would be worth slotting in team content. I'd suggest buffing either Nothing Can Save You or Suffer so that they compete with other utilities for single-target, end-game PVE damage (or buff both - the first for power, the second for condi - make them a better damage option than Well of Darkness is a no brainer).   
   
• POTENTIAL Utility Shout Suggestion: One approach: Make Augery of Death trait provide a similar effect to Glyph of Elemental Power (+25% damage on next 5 hits and/or conditions applied on next 5 hits) on all utility shouts. The problem with the shouts is they're inherently AOE and we need them to ideally provide enough raid-target damage to make them worth slotting over Well of Darkness (which, ironically, is also aoe and does looooooads more damage), but we don't need that damage to be AOE (Reaper's cleave is already excellent). 
   
• DAYDREAM Utility Shout: Replace Nothing Can Save You with Get Over Here, a 900 range single target fast projectile, 1/2s cast 20s cd, that 1) pulls target to reaper on hit 2) marks target (a la deadeye) 3) provides a 10s damage buff to the Reaper on just the target. Solves for a single target damage dealing ability that's welcome in raids and you don't mind spamming off cooldown. Reaper needs a strike equivalent for Blood is Power and this would fit the bill.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Gaeb.2837

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Not one significant buff, nothing to greatly improve, overall DPS, no improvements to CC, nothing substantial to bring to a raid group. These changes are once again a slap in the face of every long term Reaper player since it's release. This is why I'm walking away from the game, I've waited long enough and I'm just done waiting. Nothing changes regardless of who is running the balance department and there is no reason to support a game that continues to ignore a player base for this long!

 

https://preview.redd.it/2kv5i1hvbpz91.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=3cd57f938ed8aaad5e65c814d72a343bcd175aa8

[ElderNewt.5840]

It's been a long running joke. I'm amazed the joke still has energy to continue lol

[Raizel.8175]

10 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You should consider that peoples were already pushing their rotation beyond the 10s mark on reaper in order to squeeze an additional AA chain. This change offer the reaper more room to abuse RS high dps AA chain and, incidentally, reduce the instances in which you wouldn't have been able to catch up to your Wells CD and soul spiral.

For once, It's a QoL change and we should always be welcoming to QoL changes.

While that's true, it's still very situational. In several encounters, you bleed far too much life force due to continuous incoming damage that pushing AAs beyond the 10s mark is more detrimental than beneficial. Currently, I'd rather take Spectral Grasp for life force generation rather than Well of Darkness for DPS.

[Asum.4960]

 

I'm also going to copy my Reaper Feedback from the Patch Preview thread into here.

 

On 11/11/2022 at 7:51 PM, Double Tap said:

Necromancer

Power reaper is another damage build that we've sought to improve in PvE, bringing up some of its less potent skills in Reaper Shroud and giving it a bit more consistent pressure while out of shroud.

Core

• Soul Barbs: Increased duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE only.

Reaper

• Chilling Nova: Reduced cooldown from 8 seconds to 3 seconds in PvE only.
• Nightfall: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
• Dusk Strike: Increased power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.2 in PvE only.
• Chilling Scythe: This skill now reduces the recharge of Gravedigger when striking an enemy.
• Death's Charge (PvE only): Increased power coefficient of initial strikes from 0.125 to 0.25. Fixed an issue that prevented the damage of the initial strikes from being listed on this skill's tooltip.
• Executioner's Scythe (PvE only): Increased power coefficient against targets at or above 50% health to 3.0. Increased power coefficient against targets below 50% health to 4.0. Increased power coefficient against targets below 25% to 5.0.

 

I just want to sum up why I think these Reaper changes are bad and don't achieve their goal. 

First of all the Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe Buffs - can we please, please stop with the trend of making all skills DPS skills to be pressed off-cooldown?

It's okay to have skills with the primary function of Mobility, CC or other (situational) Utility. Not everything needs to be mashed off-cooldown. 

 

Nightfall is used in conjunction with Well of Suffering, Well of Darkness and Grasping Darkness before entering Shroud to benefit from Death's Perception and Reaper's Onslaught's extra Critical Damage. What do all of those skills have in common? 25 second Cooldowns.

Not that a CD reduction is a bad thing, but I don't know what you expect this to accomplish as a means to increase Reaper's DPS. 

 

Chilling Scythe reducing the CD of Gravedigger - great.. more Gravedigger Spam. Why is this a bad change? Reaper already has massive Lifeforce Issues. 

Where does Reaper get a lot of it's already lacking LF from? The third hit of the AA on both Greatsword and Shroud. 

What do these Chilling Scythe, Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe buffs want you to do? Auto Attack less in GS and Shroud.

How do you expect this to work out?

 

So that leaves us with Soul Barbs, Chilling Nova and Dusk Strike buffs. 

 

More Soul Barb duration certainly is a plus, but it's really not going to do much at all either. Once again, Reaper simply doesn't have the LF to stay in Shroud for an extended amount of time. In real fights with incoming damage, especially post 50% Boss Health Gravedigger spam, Reaper genuinely a lot of times can't even stay in Shroud for the 10 seconds, sometimes barely getting a Soul Spiral in - something that will be even worse LF wise if trying to Utilize these buffed skills and Auto Attacking less.

This will mainly increase the low but already inflated Golem Benchmark slightly where LF management is easier due to not having to deal with incoming damage, without doing much in actual use cases.

 

Chilling Nova's ICD reduction is nice and probably the most significant Buff out of all of these, but since this can't Crit even this is fairly marginal and more of a Condi Reaper Buff with Deathly Chill, but okay. More Chill uptime is nice for Solo play at least.

 

And then there is a 0.2 coefficient buff on the first GS Auto, which you now want us to use less for even more Gravedigger usage. Any buff is a welcome one, but this is just so far off being enough - especially from the big PvE patch of the year which even has a focus on boosting underused power DPS Specs, like Reaper. 

Frankly, this is stuff I expect from monthly hotfixes, not changes worth waiting years for. 

 

Sooner or later you will have to put the work in to rework and buff Core Necro Weapons, especially the Off-Hands, as well as Spite Traits, especially the Master and Grandmaster Minors. 

I probably speak for most players in that we are so tired of watching you guys shuffle around coefficients for years and years, usually in the wrong places.

 

Why does Necro still have a "Deal 25% increased Damage while Downed" Trait in Spite? Why are you intent on buffing the damage of Skills like Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe, which already have very real use cases in PvE for Mobility and CC, but skills like Unholy Feast on Axe are practically never worth pressing/way too situational? Speaking of Axe, why is the AA so awful (and even more so Staff)? How come it's only skill semi-worth pressing is Ghastly Claws - and that took 10 buffs over 10 freaking years!?

What is the point of Dagger MH? 

Why isn't there a single solid core Off-Hand on Necro? How about a single comparable Damage skill to Whirling Axe, Whirling Defense or even Shackling Wave, etc.? 

Even Ranger Warhorn as support weapon with AoE Fury, Might, Swiftness, Weakness, Daze and Blast Finisher (+Regen if Traited) on Call of the Wild has a better/more reliable damage skill with Hunter's Call than all Necro off-hands. 

Necro Warhorn is just utterly pathetic in comparison to everything else.

 

If you want to give Reaper "a bit more consistent pressure while out of shroud", this is where to start - and it needs more than "just a bit".

[Methuselah.4376]

Any buffs are welcomed of course. But once again, these change, while in the right direction, are not enough. As others have pointed out, Nightfall's CD reduction doesn't necessarily make sense as when used in rotation it's meant to align with Well of Suffering and Well of Darkness, both of which have 25 seconds CD. But still the reduction might be nice in open world (after all, raids aren't the only game mode in GW2). I actually was hoping for the 15s Soul Barbs since they introduced it. It's not a massive change but it's a nice QoL change. The Chilling Nova CD reduction will help with both power and condi dps, condi more than power but any little helps. Now if they allowed it to crit again, it will be a significant boost. 

Signets should be made to work in Shroud as a baseline. Also a few more damage modifiers will help along with some decent rework of core weapons. Revert that stupid change to Locust Swarm, and redo focus 4 to a similar function to Guardian's focus 4. MH dagger needs a lot of power improvements, maybe even include a lifesteal on the dagger auto's final hit. Axe auto should chance into a chain that actually is worth using.  

[Dadnir.5038]

45 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Why does Necro still have a "Deal 25% increased Damage while Downed" Trait in Spite?

Thematic 😉

46 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Why are you intent on buffing the damage of Skills like Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe, which already have very real use cases in PvE for Mobility and CC, but skills like Unholy Feast on Axe are practically never worth pressing/way too situational?

Good question.

46 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Speaking of Axe, why is the AA so awful (and even more so Staff)?

The official reason since 2012 is that it's a range attack that's not affected by projectile hate.

47 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

How come it's only skill semi-worth pressing is Ghastly Claws - and that took 10 buffs over 10 freaking years!?

Ghastly claw is, objectively, in a pretty good state.

48 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

What is the point of Dagger MH?

It's a theoretical weapon focused on sustain. One of tthe core tenet of the necromancer is that it's an attrition profession. Not only in the sense of vomiting conditions but also in the sense of outlasting your opponent. Dagger main hand was designed with this goal in mind as a weapon that allow high amount of self sustain through LF and health generation (Let's keep in mind that there are still people begging the devs for a "vampire" e-spec and dagger main hand is just that: a "vampire weapon").

55 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Why isn't there a single solid core Off-Hand on Necro? How about a single comparable Damage skill to Whirling Axe, Whirling Defense or even Shackling Wave, etc.? 

One can argue that spinal shivers have a coefficient high enough to rival those upon removing 3 boons. But, really, the reason necromancer's off-hand suck is a matter of historical choices. For a long time the necromancer's community had to point out to the devs the lack of active defense on the necromancer and they choose to adress it by gutting introducing life leeching onto the off hand skills. From their point of view it was probably a thematic way to answer the issue that would please the "we want to feel like vampire" crowd.

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

Necro Warhorn is just utterly pathetic in comparison to everything else.

On the paper, if all stars align, warhorn in it's current state is pretty strong. Wail of doom can proc many traits effects while locust swarm have the potential to heal 5 allies for a large amount within a large radius (the potential hp/s is even slightly higher than vampiric presence in optimal conditions). Obviously, locust swarm will seldom find optimal condition in PvE end game and building around wail of doom isn't really going to bring anyone far either, but, nonetheless, the potential is here.

[Acanthus.8120]

I have some feedback regarding reaper and necro in general.

 

Weaponry: One of the greatest flaws of necromancer in general that carries over into reaper is that its weapons skills are generally not that great, even the "good" ones. For example, reaper greatsword, despite being toted as a slower, but harder hitting (which is in itself generally a negative trade-off), often doesn't have power coefficients to justify the slow speed, particularly on the auto-attack chain. The first two strikes are, on average, have 50% increased animation length and the final strike is doubled in length by comparison. The coefficient for the third strike of the other classes (except mesmer because it's ranged) is between 1.3 (vindicator only) and 1.5 (warrior only). Reapers, for having double the animation time of everybody except ranger, gets a whopping 1.8. Woo~... I sincerely doubt that the average 161 higher base damage makes up for that. The first strike of the chain is even worse in that it has neither a higher coefficient NOR base damage than some classes, so adding a meager 0.2 to the coefficient of dusk strike won't fix how bad the chain is. Only really the second hit in the chain is appropriately compensated. On top of all this, the life force gain for the weapon, the weapon for the e-spec that requires melee range in shroud, has lackluster life force gain. I do not want all the power of the weapon loaded into gravedigger. I would like for the most frequent attacks (the auto-attack chain) to not feel like crap to use. These types of major flaws are prevalent across nearly all necromancer weaponry.

 

Shouts: Suffer is a skill that doesn't do enough. If you're going to AoE condi transfer, this is truly the skill that should work like plague signet by taking one condition from 5 allies, then transferring 1 condition per hit. "You are all weaklings" is actually a good skill aside from having too long a cooldown for doing less than blood is power in both might duration and not having charges. Rise is cool, but what is its use case? Reaper isn't the ideal minion master. "Nothing can save you" is a pure PvP skill through and through, so no comment. Chilled to the Bone is worse in every way than Flesh Golem. Lower its cooldown by at least 50 seconds, make it only give a 1 second chill, and make it proc chill on your next 3 attacks 1 second each. Why? Because reaper can modify chill to add vulnerability and/or bleed. This will at least give it a use case.

 

Signets: Signets are horrifically incongruent in design. Signet of spite has a fantastic passive and active... that have zero synergy. Plague signet is literally unusable because it would be too easy to kill yourself with it with the way power has increased across the board in the game. Signet of the Locust's active is just strange. It's not really bad, but you wouldn't use it for the heal, you wouldn't use it for movement speed except in PvP, and there are much better options for boonstrip in necro kit. Signet of undeath is truly useful. Signet of Vampirism is just... why? The rework was just why? And why no elite?

 

Corruption skills: Corruption skills are a shell of their former selves except for blood is power, which continues to be truly amazing. Epidemic was castrated to the point that no one should ever take this, ever. If it's that hard to balance, give us a different skill to slot at least. Corrosive poison cloud is a skill that has poor offensive uses in exchange for blocking projectiles. While that is useful, the best place to use the defensive portion is on yourself, while the best place to use the poison is on the enemy. Corruption skills are best paired with the ranged weapons since neither dagger nor greatsword offer condi, so this skill suffers from being subpar at both damage and defense (because reflect is the better choice, so you will never slot this unless you're cherrypicking this for a specific fight solo). It also has weaken, which would be good if defiance wasn't in the game. You never fear normal or veteran mobs as a reaper, so this eats up power budget for no reason. All in all, mediocre skill. Corrupt boon is just inferior in every way to well of corruption except cooldown. Plaguelands is there, I guess. It's cast on self, which is weird since, again, you're incentivized to take range on condi builds.

 

Traits (Reaper): Augury of Death is a true noob trap trait. This needs to be something else. Preferably not something that modifies shouts. Maybe something that modifies you when you use shouts, like ranger's resetting attack of opportunity. Soul eater: Why does this not have any effect in shroud? Just make it 1% lifeforce per skill hit without allowing multi-hit or something. Reaper's onslaught: Just about every reaper is locked into this skill, which means every reaper has permanent quickness on self. Every reaper has 50% animation speed increase permanently and is still massively underperforming in numbers compared to just about everyone despite having no support capabilities, no mobility, no defensive options besides raw hp and cleanse, and no unique modifiers like lethal tempo, kalla's fervor, or fencer's finesse. And on top of that, necro in general has no boon enhancements (like other classes getting increased performance from boons using certain traits). I would LOVE to get 50% crit chance fury (and more) like rev, 25% crit chance resolution (and more) like guardian, not that we can self-apply that, bonuses from quickness (guardian again), bonuses from vigor (ranger) or regen (mesmer) or swiftness (engineer), and elementalist gets bonus ferocity from fury and 150 bonus power at 10 or greater might stacks. Hell, warrior gets more power from might from a MINOR. We have to lose condition damage, something that our class always applies in some fashion, to get increased power from might on a major (which we will never take since power builds require signets, and that competes with signets of suffering trait). Why is necromancer shafted in EVERY category?

 

Traits (base): I don't want to go to deep into detail, but a lot of traits are either outdated or have way too much overlap because of how narrow necromancer was intended to be (example: how many might might generation options there are, but only for the necromancer). In some cases, like blood magic, the trait system isn't even good at what it's intended to do because the class was designed to be selfish.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Acanthus.8120

[Asum.4960]

10 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Thematic 😉

....

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The official reason since 2012 is that it's a range attack that's not affected by projectile hate.

It's also single target with zero cleave - and while being a non-projectile is nice, that imo doesn't excuse an AA being unusable without nuking your damage. So the question stands, especially so in PvE. 

Staff AA doesn't even have the non-projectile excuse.

This was mostly rhetorical. Point is, there isn't a satisfactory answer. They are just bad.

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Ghastly claw is, objectively, in a pretty good state.

Yes, it's a decent skill, but in the context of the kit in Axe that it is in (as single useable skill), in addition to being entirely single target, Axe isn't in a great state and never has been. If it or the AA had cleave (and higher damage on the AA), as well as if Unholy Feast was a valid skill in PvE as a proper AoE nuke, this could be a decent kit - but alas it isn't.

 

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It's a theoretical weapon

 

Ah, cool.

 

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One can argue that spinal shivers have a coefficient high enough to rival those upon removing 3 boons. But, really, the reason necromancer's off-hand suck is a matter of historical choices. For a long time the necromancer's community had to point out to the devs the lack of active defense on the necromancer and they choose to adress it by gutting introducing life leeching onto the off hand skills. From their point of view it was probably a thematic way to answer the issue that would please the "we want to feel like vampire" crowd.

Yea, a single target skill that theoretically barely does high enough damage only if it removes 3 boons. Fantastic.

And let's not blame the community for Anet's terrible design choices, speculated to be based on valid community complaints. 

Theme follows design or at best slightly informs it, not the other way around. 

If a profession is lacking in X, you give it X and then think about how to integrate and dress it up thematically. You don't give it y because it's "thematic", with the profession still desperately lacking x - and y not really doing anything.

And I swear "Thematic" is genuinely a trigger word for me at this point in relation to or as excuse for god awful design and balance.

 

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On the paper, if all stars align, warhorn in it's current state is pretty strong. Wail of doom can proc many traits effects while locust swarm have the potential to heal 5 allies for a large amount within a large radius (the potential hp/s is even slightly higher than vampiric presence in optimal conditions). Obviously, locust swarm will seldom find optimal condition in PvE end game and building around wail of doom isn't really going to bring anyone far either, but, nonetheless, the potential is here.

 

I'm not sure if you are trolling with your comments about Warhorn, truly. If a weapon is good in 0.1% of gameplay scenarios, and kitten in 99.9%, then it's kitten. 

"If all stars align" shouldn't be a conditional for a weapon to perform. Absolutely ridiculous. 

[Dr Meta.3158]

Necromancer is quite the mess. A lot of the traits, weapons and utilities need reworks. I just don't have the time to write up an entire document of necessary changes to anything. I value myself and my time too much for that only for it to go to waste anyway. I honestly suggest the same from you all.

[Dadnir.5038]

40 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Theme follows design or at best slightly informs it, not the other way around.

That's where you're wrong, design follow theme, not the opposite.

The theme is "GW necromancer" and the design revolve around this theme. "GW necromancer" is an attrition character that delve in spite, curse, dark magic and blood magic but mostly play around the boundaries of life and death. It's a wicked beast that ruin and feast on it's foes to full himself. The necromancer don't build defense for himself he rip them out of it's foes forcefully, hurting them in the process. The theme dictate that the necromancer don't need to build his own sustain because he got foes to take it from. And the way the necromancer's tools are designed is here to express this theme (that's basically why we got boon conversion, life leeching, barrier, life force... etc. If we want an aegis we need to rip it out of our foes)

If the necromancer is lacking something, you first look at the theme and then see how you can bend it to incorporate the necessary tools.

Unfortunately it's difficult to bend the theme of the necromancer to give it what it lack.

- How do you get CC counter by ripping it out of a foe? Scourge offer an answer by taking the boon he corrupt. Harbinger get it by using external means, taking in foreign energy. Even reaper somehow try to use ice to answer this question through it's elite skill.

- How do you support allies with such a theme? Core necromancer share part or byproduct of it's ability to steal life energy, Scourge expand on the theme and share a portion of what he rip from it's foes. While harbinger use mainly external means.

The next necromancer e-spec might very well rip out of their foes the very same bundles the thief steal from them. (Afterall, thief got both shroud and life stealing so I don't see why necromancer wouldn't get stolen skills. Thematically there is nothing against such concept)

 

Let's be honest. People that voice their grievance about reaper want a "competitive strike damage reaper" regardless of whether it's balanced or not. They will say that it's dps is low (which is true) and have virtually 0 support (true again) yet only have drawback (which isn't true). When you point them out the strengths of the reaper they will deny them. When you suggest things in line with the strength of the reaper they will be "confused".

[Asum.4960]

42 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's where you're wrong, design follow theme, not the opposite.

I fundamentally disagree - Gameplay is king. 

Again, theme can inform/tweak design at times, but ultimately theme has to follow good game design, otherwise you are setting yourself up for failure. 

That's especially true since theming is vastly easier than good game design. 

 

A fun and effective gameplay mechanic is incredibly easy to theme well - in turn a "thematic" mechanic may be impossible to make into a fun and effective gameplay mechanic. 

 

If a Necromantic themed character/class needs certain elements for gameplay purposes, you give them that and then theme them. Needs a Block? Easy, summons a bone shield, coagulates it's blood, etc. Need an Invuln? Disappears in a pool of blood, becomes spectral/incorporeal momentarily, etc. Needs to support allies? Enhances them via Blood Magic, Dark Rituals, etc. - there are literally countless options to make good, fun and needed mechanics thematically appropriate. 

 

If you start with what you think is a thematic addition, which then doesn't end up working well mechanically for your game, you are now just stuck with a bad, impossible to balance or make fun gameplay element. 

How do you fix that? By designing good mechanics and then theming them.

 

If you go design first, worst case scenario you got a fun and effective skill with a weak theme (which can be flavoured with just a better name and skill effect). 

If you go theme first, worst case you got a bad and unfun skill with a cool theme (which has to be entirely reworked to be worthwhile).

What would you rather actually play with?

Edited November 14, 2022 by Asum.4960

[God.5728]

5 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

 

I probably speak for most players in that we are so tired of watching you guys shuffle around coefficients for years and years, usually in the wrong places.

 

I feel this. Here are some changes that comes to mind.

Pathetic changes like this as an example. Only took them 5 years to buff Life rend's coefficient by 0.025. Noice.

Life Rend

August 23, 2022

(PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 0.875 to 0.9.

November 07, 2017	Increased damage by 25%.
February 22, 2017	Increased damage by 17%.

 

Rending Claws

December 12, 2017	Increased damage by 13%.
May 16, 2017	Applies twice as much vulnerability while your target is below 50% health.
October 18, 2016	The damage of this ability has been increased by 15%.
September 29, 2015	Increased the range to 900. Increased damage by 10%.

Edited November 14, 2022 by God.5728