The Patch Note Intro I Want to See

[Zuko.7132]

Warrior

 

Warrior has struggled to find a place in competitive. While we are pleased to see the rise of hammer spellbreaker play after the hammer and defense buffs and feel it has a solid foundation, there are a few more tweaks we wish to make to spellbreaker as a whole. Unfortunately, despite our recent attempt at buffing berserker, it has not seen much increased play and still struggles to find a viable role. In this patch, we wish to cement berserker as a solid teamfighter spec. Bladesworn has also fallen off, and we have decided to take a serious look at improving the gunsaber kit and the risk reward balance of dragon trigger after the change to dragonscale defense. Furthermore, we have taken a pass at improving a few bladesworn traits, especially Daring Dragon and Immortal Dragon, which currently cannot compete with Unyielding Dragon. We have also taken a look at warrior traits that contain an on hit component, and have changed some to on use while tweaking some numbers accordingly. We also feel that many core weapons and utilities along with the arms traitline required a pass to bring them up to speed. We have decided to add more active defenses to warrior weapons, to improve or add mobility to some skills to ensure warrior can more reliably land its damage, and to improve damage on some iconic and lackluster skills. As far as utilities go, we took a look at the mainstay choices such as shake it off, bulls charge, and endure pain and asked ourselves what could make other utility choices compete. Arm has received a rework that should make it an attractive traitline for both power and condi builds. Arms has also received a few sustain options to compete with the survivability offered by other traitlines, but it will remain a more offensive choice compared to defense or tactics. Finally, we have decided to improve the baseline profession mechanic of warrior. Fast hands is now baseline. We are excited to see what builds this change will open up. Core warrior has also received an f2 that breaks stun and generates adrenaline to help it compete with the elite specs. We're really proud of these changes, and we know our beloved warriors have been asking for some of these for a long time. Your feedback matters to us, and we've taken it to heart for this patch.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

What i dont get. There is a MASSIV list of things that they can work on.

Any start would be appreciated. Anywhere.

But this patch just fixes Holes that should never have been there in the first place, while creating new ones again.

Out of the 9 Notes:

• 4 of them should not even be there because that should have been the default.
• 1 is just NUMBER UP!
• 1 is a nerf.
• 3 of them is just ????? why ??? Who asked for that?

[oscuro.9720]

Patch notes intro that I desire;

 

My brothers of war, we have come here to ask for penance. The mists have clouded our vision for too long, the clones hath deceived us, the virtues hath formed binds we were unaware of! But we shall cast aside the crutches of the lesser professions, we has break the bindings we have let wrap us in their malicious grasp. The path is long, the way is hard, but it is through the difficulty that Warrior shall grow beyond the limitations of the lesser professions and assume its rightful place atop the mountain, poised to drive even higher into the night sky, ever seeking what lies beyond; beyond space, beyond time, beyond the infinite domain of reality. The sword grows heavy yet we swing. The legs tremble so we seek deeper into the horse stance. Our vision fades from exhaustion but eyes were but a means by which to be deceived. Further onward! 

[Telgum.6071]

You know I understand Warrior hasn't been in a good spot for a while, but there is a difference between being a proud struggler and being a whiner. This subforum is awful and way worse than the Rev subforum.

[Zekent.3652]

All warrior offhand weapons are the same thing, dps and nothing else, apart from shield and warhorn, and maybe mace because of the CC (and it's lacking), the other offhand weapons are just pretty meh, it's them all trying to compete with axe offhand, doing dps and nothing else.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Zekent.3652]

49 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

You know I understand Warrior hasn't been in a good spot for a while, but there is a difference between being a proud struggler and being a whiner. This subforum is awful and way worse than the Rev subforum.

Oh man, then don't check the ranger, thief and ele subforum XD

[Dadnir.5038]

14 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Oh man, then don't check the ranger, thief and ele subforum XD

Any subforum, truly. Nobody's satisfied with what they have (even guardians find ways to complains).

 

Personally, What I'd want to see is:

- The devs admitting that warrior don't fare well in competitive modes.

- A talk on how bad of an impact the change on hard CC skills damage output and resistance effectiveness had on warrior.

- Then list of things they did to solve those and why they choose to do so in this way.

- A note on how they understand that GW2 is a fast paced game and that specs revolving around slow hard hitting skills that root the character are ill-fit for such a game would be an unexpected by appreciated bonus.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

Quote

- A note on how they understand that GW2 is a fast paced game and that specs revolving around slow hard hitting skills that root the character are ill-fit for such a game would be an unexpected by appreciated bonus.

Personally, i want us to go back to when slow, hard-hitting skill would be the norm for damage output. I just dislike how fastpaced ( and boon vomiting ) the game became as a whole. Things like Quickness/Alacrity should be extremely rare, and should be tied to extremely long cooldowns ( like WoW's Bloodlust for instance ), but when Anet designed themselves into corners with their Elite Specs NEEDING to have weird changes in gameplay, they made those specs bloated. I think it was Scrapper that had a insane output of Superspeed, and then Anet bit the bullet and said "we need to give everyone this, or it'll be unfair", when to me, it should be REMOVED from Scrapper except in specific moments.

I think the game should go back to it's roots where reading animations was the main way of seeing how things would fare. I would like to have the option of hard-hitting slow weapons competing with fast weapons. I would like the game to be less bloated around yelling FGJ all the time to keep up 25 might stacks, and instead, it had a measure where damage between builds n ever oscilated around 50%-100%-150% damage. That would make characters less dependant on boon generation, which would make solo play more rewarding, and gearing more tailored to what you want to do. It would still reward top end players with their glasscannons, but i REALLY dislike the system right now where if you don't play a Axe/Axe Warrior, you're just griefing because the difference between Axe and the other weapons is massive.

We can either speed up/change all other weapons to bring them to Axe levels ( which is ok to me ), or we can tone the entire game down to a more balanceable approach and Anet start using metrics to keep builds within arms reach of each other, because this game is IMPOSSIBLE to balance as long as something performs on 6x better than something else.

And maybe, for the love of god, can they add roles in this game already? This "quickDPS/AlacDPS/PureDPS/Healer" thing doesn't work. Go Tank/Healer/DPS/Support, for the love of god.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

I only use arms for burst precision 100% crit rate, and the signet mastery trait is fun when your opponent thinks their safe hiding in their bubbles and holding up their blocks thinking they can sit comfy then whamo! The attack still lands because of unblockable.

I'm still upset about unblockable being nerfed.

[felix.2386]

22 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

You know I understand Warrior hasn't been in a good spot for a while, but there is a difference between being a proud struggler and being a whiner. This subforum is awful and way worse than the Rev subforum.

LOL worse than rev subform? are you for real?

 rev sub is a huge joke, because the class has such a high skill ceiling

there's top10 top25 revs telling how revs are fine and get like 40 confuses by average revs who can't even press buttons properly and think rev is complete garbage.

at least, this sub, every warrior from top10 to low tier war and non war all agree that warrior is so badly designed now

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

3 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

I only use arms for burst precision 100% crit rate, and the signet mastery trait is fun when your opponent thinks their safe hiding in their bubbles and holding up their blocks thinking they can sit comfy then whamo! The attack still lands because of unblockable.

I'm still upset about unblockable being nerfed.

Signet mastery and SoMight is really good for WvW when you need to actually hit things with Bow. There's a "Chinese Berserker" build in metabattle that uses arms for Signet mastery so you can actually unblockable the projectile hate with the Bow primal burst. It's a really cool build.

[JTGuevara.9018]

7 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Personally, i want us to go back to when slow, hard-hitting skill would be the norm for damage output. I just dislike how fastpaced ( and boon vomiting ) the game became as a whole. Things like Quickness/Alacrity should be extremely rare, and should be tied to extremely long cooldowns ( like WoW's Bloodlust for instance ), but when Anet designed themselves into corners with their Elite Specs NEEDING to have weird changes in gameplay, they made those specs bloated. I think it was Scrapper that had a insane output of Superspeed, and then Anet bit the bullet and said "we need to give everyone this, or it'll be unfair", when to me, it should be REMOVED from Scrapper except in specific moments.

I think the game should go back to it's roots where reading animations was the main way of seeing how things would fare. I would like to have the option of hard-hitting slow weapons competing with fast weapons. I would like the game to be less bloated around yelling FGJ all the time to keep up 25 might stacks, and instead, it had a measure where damage between builds n ever oscilated around 50%-100%-150% damage. That would make characters less dependant on boon generation, which would make solo play more rewarding, and gearing more tailored to what you want to do. It would still reward top end players with their glasscannons, but i REALLY dislike the system right now where if you don't play a Axe/Axe Warrior, you're just griefing because the difference between Axe and the other weapons is massive.

We can either speed up/change all other weapons to bring them to Axe levels ( which is ok to me ), or we can tone the entire game down to a more balanceable approach and Anet start using metrics to keep builds within arms reach of each other, because this game is IMPOSSIBLE to balance as long as something performs on 6x better than something else.

And maybe, for the love of god, can they add roles in this game already? This "quickDPS/AlacDPS/PureDPS/Healer" thing doesn't work. Go Tank/Healer/DPS/Support, for the love of god.

This game has gone to the DOGS. And yes to everything you said. Elite specs are nothing but a hack, based on Anet's inability to design a game, that is, an RPG. And what does an RPG have? (drum-roll..).....roles! Instead of designing a cohesive game, you instead give bells-and-whistles to everybody (except warriors, of course...warriors can't ever have nice things!)

And as much as I like quick-dps, I'd rather have a solid, structured RPG. gw1 was like this.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

3 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Signet mastery and SoMight is really good for WvW when you need to actually hit things with Bow. There's a "Chinese Berserker" build in metabattle that uses arms for Signet mastery so you can actually unblockable the projectile hate with the Bow primal burst. It's a really cool build.

It's nasty with rifle. If you build full glass, you can down someone in the middle of a zerg with Killshot along with hitting people in line with the shot for around 10k depending on their toughness.

Idk, I might be crazy, but I always felt partially responsible for unblockable getting nerfed lol. I used to riddle zergs with holes when unblockable was on a time window instead only 10 attacks. Someone had to have complained lol.

[eXruina.4956]

3 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Signet mastery and SoMight is really good for WvW when you need to actually hit things with Bow. There's a "Chinese Berserker" build in metabattle that uses arms for Signet mastery so you can actually unblockable the projectile hate with the Bow primal burst. It's a really cool build.

probably not for projectile hate, lb primal burst isn't a projectile 🤔 but its still blockable, so probably to guarantee it hits. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

3 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

It's nasty with rifle. If you build full glass, you can down someone in the middle of a zerg with Killshot along with hitting people in line with the shot for around 10k depending on their toughness.

in full marauder gear, i was critting a firebrand for 200+ damage just yesterday. sadness. 🥺😓

[Dadnir.5038]

14 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Personally, i want us to go back to when slow, hard-hitting skill would be the norm for damage output. I just dislike how fastpaced ( and boon vomiting ) the game became as a whole. Things like Quickness/Alacrity should be extremely rare, and should be tied to extremely long cooldowns ( like WoW's Bloodlust for instance ), but when Anet designed themselves into corners with their Elite Specs NEEDING to have weird changes in gameplay, they made those specs bloated. I think it was Scrapper that had a insane output of Superspeed, and then Anet bit the bullet and said "we need to give everyone this, or it'll be unfair", when to me, it should be REMOVED from Scrapper except in specific moments.

I think the game should go back to it's roots where reading animations was the main way of seeing how things would fare. I would like to have the option of hard-hitting slow weapons competing with fast weapons. I would like the game to be less bloated around yelling FGJ all the time to keep up 25 might stacks, and instead, it had a measure where damage between builds n ever oscilated around 50%-100%-150% damage. That would make characters less dependant on boon generation, which would make solo play more rewarding, and gearing more tailored to what you want to do. It would still reward top end players with their glasscannons, but i REALLY dislike the system right now where if you don't play a Axe/Axe Warrior, you're just griefing because the difference between Axe and the other weapons is massive.

We can either speed up/change all other weapons to bring them to Axe levels ( which is ok to me ), or we can tone the entire game down to a more balanceable approach and Anet start using metrics to keep builds within arms reach of each other, because this game is IMPOSSIBLE to balance as long as something performs on 6x better than something else.

And maybe, for the love of god, can they add roles in this game already? This "quickDPS/AlacDPS/PureDPS/Healer" thing doesn't work. Go Tank/Healer/DPS/Support, for the love of god.

You realize that:

- The game have always been fast paced.

- Quickness effectiveness have been halved since the early days (yes it used to increase attack speed by 100%).

- PvE end game used to be everyone in berserk gear, only fire fields allowed in fight. And boss fights ended very quickly (I've seen lupicus die in less than 10s).

- The game is built in a way that specialized tanks and healers aren't really needed and, in fact, can be seen as counter productive by an experienced team.

[Telgum.6071]

10 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

LOL worse than rev subform? are you for real?

 rev sub is a huge joke, because the class has such a high skill ceiling

there's top10 top25 revs telling how revs are fine and get like 40 confuses by average revs who can't even press buttons properly and think rev is complete garbage.

I know, I used to argue a lot in there before EoD. Still think this sub is worse.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I know, I used to argue a lot in there before EoD. Still think this sub is worse.

Reasonable and logical discourse showing where Warrior is lacking and providing data backed suggestions for buffs was tried. It didn't work, so the squeaky wheel approach was tried.

Guess what worked...

Not their fault that Anet chooses to listen to one type and not the other.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You realize that:

- The game have always been fast paced.

- Quickness effectiveness have been halved since the early days (yes it used to increase attack speed by 100%).

- PvE end game used to be everyone in berserk gear, only fire fields allowed in fight. And boss fights ended very quickly (I've seen lupicus die in less than 10s).

- The game is built in a way that specialized tanks and healers aren't really needed and, in fact, can be seen as counter productive by an experienced team.

- "The game was always been fast paced."

Yes, but not to the extent it is right now. You actually had some applications of slower, hard-hitting weapons. The problem isn't that they were always bad, the problem is that the game got powercrept to oblivion, and now the fast paced options are outpacing the rest of the game by extreme margins. GW2 has a huge issue with power disparity between builds. This is not a problem with the game's design itself, this is a problem with the design that was ADDED to the game later. Hammer didn't got bad because it deals low damage. Hammer was bad because it dealt low damage for it's speed in a game powercrept by excessive ammounts of stability and stunbreak access. It's no wonder Hammer requires quickness/superspeed to output coherent damage for today standards, and it just took us...around how many years? to get that.

Also, it demands heavy investiment in around two traitlines to deal such coherent damage. Axe doesn't need that. It'll deal coherent damage for today standards even on a Strength/Tactics/Spellbreaker solo LI build.

- Quickness effectiveness have been halved since the early days (yes it used to increase attack speed by 100%).

Yeah, because when you make such a powerful boon more common, you kinda need to bring it down a notch, because else it destroys what little balance the game has. It is still a powerful boon, and Anet's mistake was to make it common, not to nerf it. It should be GW2's version of Bloodlust: A prohibitive CD that gives everyone a extremely powerful speed steroid. Any class/spec that gets superspeed as a core mechanic should have it's mechanics reworked and superspeed should be a trait that gives powerful benefits but with a huge drawback of a pretty long cooldown, or extremely conditional conditions ( maintain 25% health for instance, just as a hypotetical ).

- PvE end game used to be everyone in berserk gear, only fire fields allowed in fight. And boss fights ended very quickly (I've seen lupicus die in less than 10s).

The way to remedy that is to improve the game as a whole, not just to embrace the full DPS meta and pretend that Alac DPS or Quick DPS are anything beyond DPS. The game lacks ROLES. It always lacked roles. It will always lack roles. Anet should have embraced the role system and expanded upon it. As it is right now, people are honestly deluding themselves if they think Alac/Quick/Might uptime is any sort of meaningful support compared to other support classes in other games ( except WoW, but Blizzard couldn't design a support class to save their studio from a meteor ).

- The game is built in a way that specialized tanks and healers aren't really needed and, in fact, can be seen as counter productive by an experienced team.

And the game was also built in a way that the meta for 1.5 years after launch was 4 warriors and one mesmer exploding CoF P3 over and over and over again, doesn't mean it's good. What is counterproductive is giving Anet a pass for bad design decisions when these design decisions hurt the game as a whole, and hurt specific classes more than others.

Like, i get that the game doesn't need tanks ( Healers are needed, but they are required to bring more than just healing, which isn't much of a problem to me, i like classes to be versatile ), but you STILL have issues of classes being denied spots in raids or such because they don't bring specific boons or good boon uptime on the role they perform, or they sacrifice too much in order to achieve that. And thus, you have the same issue that every other MMO has. And now, every single class/spec needs to be balanced around bringing Alac/Quick/Might uptime/Damage, or it isn't worth it. And it's constraining their design decisions.

Anet didn't solve the trinity "problem". They just created another set of problems by getting rid of it.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Shadowpeixera.2918I'm sorry to say it but you seem to have a very poor understanding of how the vanilla game used to be.

As for your wish of bringing the classic "trinity" in the game, it's simply impossible due to how the trait system is built. And, let's be clear, GW1 wasn't much more of a "heal/tank/dps" game than GW2 is. You'd lie to yourself if you were to truly believe that it was the case.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

21 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

@Shadowpeixera.2918I'm sorry to say it but you seem to have a very poor understanding of how the vanilla game used to be.

As for your wish of bringing the classic "trinity" in the game, it's simply impossible due to how the trait system is built. And, let's be clear, GW1 wasn't much more of a "heal/tank/dps" game than GW2 is. You'd lie to yourself if you were to truly believe that it was the case.

Spirits and corners are the best tanks.

[Peacekid.1463]

f2 breakstuns gives adrenaline = TO ARMS LETS FARM lol

[Dadnir.5038]

20 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Spirits and corners are the best tanks.

The only case where I can imagine some trinity is if you are playing with henchman instead of playing with players.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

@Shadowpeixera.2918I'm sorry to say it but you seem to have a very poor understanding of how the vanilla game used to be.

As for your wish of bringing the classic "trinity" in the game, it's simply impossible due to how the trait system is built. And, let's be clear, GW1 wasn't much more of a "heal/tank/dps" game than GW2 is. You'd lie to yourself if you were to truly believe that it was the case.

Nah, i understand it well enough. I'm just saying that the game as it's set up right now isn't really that good, design wise. Anet "solved" some issues by going away from classic design, and shoved a plethora of new ones down our throats.

Not only that, they keep nerfing the limited ways we can counter their awful boon/condition system by nerfing Spellbreaker and boon-removal in general, while keeping only Necromancer with boon corrupt tools. But sure, it's my understanding that is poor. Anet can do no wrong, as it's proved by the sunshine and rainbows that is the Warrior forums.

Miss me with that garbage.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Not only that, they keep nerfing the limited ways we can counter their awful boon/condition system by nerfing Spellbreaker and boon-removal in general, while keeping only Necromancer with boon corrupt tools. But sure, it's my understanding that is poor. Anet can do no wrong, as it's proved by the sunshine and rainbows that is the Warrior forums.

There is not just necromancer. I do not deny that spellbreaker's boon hate nerfs are difficult to understand as they are absolutely unwarranted but necromancer stand out just because it's the most efficient one. Mesmer can rip an isane amount of boons if you really want to build for that. Revenant isn't a bad pick either and even thief could surprise people.

 

As for your understanding, it is poor because you dare to say thing like "stability has been powercrept". No amount of buff to the current way stability work can bring this boon to the strenght it had in the vanilla game. In the vanilla game zergs in WvW were running with perma unlimited stack of stability. It was making hard CC totally irrelevant in the gamemode while now, at least, hard CCs somehow work.