Tankpest

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

So a class that invests everything into sustain is rediculously tanky? Who would've known.

[Dr Meta.3158]

I don't get it. Did something new happen with tempest? I'm seeing the same old stuff here.

[Xenesis.6389]

59 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

So a class that invests everything into sustain is rediculously tanky? Who would've known.

Sure, if it was a minstrel support build we're talking about here.

[solemn.9670]

3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

/mesmer shoves ele out of the way

Ahem, no you.

That's fair. Won't argue that xD

although there are a handful of mesmer players (power) that make it look absolutely bonkers (( inb4 "nerf mesmer I died to one" threads, knowing this forum ))

[solemn.9670]

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

So a class that invests everything into sustain is rediculously tanky? Who would've known.

lol I like how any reply in this thread shedding light on the actual issue at hand gets a bunch of confused reacts

Sometimes I think half the players who come to this forum don't actually play the same game.

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

lol I like how any reply in this thread shedding light on the actual issue at hand gets a bunch of confused reacts

Sometimes I think half the players who come to this forum don't actually play the same game.

The problem at hand is that a Tempest can provide over 5k Healing per aura per person... For example, going thru fire once, will heal everyone around you for 20k.... That is simply overtuned. Period.

Especially after people were screaming that they need more damage and less healing in zergs.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[KinkyPotato.4219]

4 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The problem at hand is that a Tempest can provide over 5k Healing per aura per person... For example, going thru fire once, will heal everyone around you for 20k.... That is simply overtuned. Period.

Especially after people were screaming that they need more damage and less healing in zergs.

 

How and where are you even getting this asinine number of healing 5k per aura per person? Elemental bastion has a 391 base heal and 80% healing coefficient. Let's assume that you have the following outgoing healing modifiers in a standard healing build = +82.5% outgoing healing (10% food, 15% utility, 15% aquatic benevolence, 12.5% fully stacked benevolence sigil, 10% Transference sigil, 20% fully stacked rune of the monk).

To get this so called value of 5k Healing per aura, let's look at the official wiki which has the formula for healing done and apply it to this baseless claim.

Total healing done = [(mechanic-specific base healing) + (Healing Power) * (mechanic-specific coefficient)] * (sum of healing multipliers)

Plugging in the numbers above, we get:

5000 = [391 + Healing Power*0.8]*1.825

I'm going to solve this for you because you obviously are not getting 5k Healing per aura.

5000÷1.825 = 391 + (Healing Power*0.8)

2,739.73 -391 = Healing Power*0.8

2,348.72÷0.8 = Healing Power

2,935.9 = Healing Power

So you mean to tell me that, in addition to maintaining 82.5% outgoing healing at all times, you're running around in a gear setup that grants you 2936 Healing Power? Please do tell what this mysteriously OP gear setup is, because there is no way you're getting that much healing power in a full minstrel setup. If you need me to do a number breakdown of minstrel healing power stats as well, let me know....but don't go around spreading misinformation and claims of "healing over 5k per aura per person" when I just proved to you with basic math that it's not possible.

Edited December 3, 2022 by KinkyPotato.4219

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

If Arc Divider had 10.0 Power Coeficient that wouldn't be a problem.

[solemn.9670]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The problem at hand is that a Tempest can provide over 5k Healing per aura per person... For example, going thru fire once, will heal everyone around you for 20k.... That is simply overtuned. Period.

Especially after people were screaming that they need more damage and less healing in zergs.

 

Ok great master who can heal for 5k an aura, go out there and hard-carry your server to victory because I certainly am not healing for that much. What is the secret to this great power of tempest you speak of? Some day I will discover it and vanquish all foes ..................

edit: you guys know that you can just run away from any player who is needlessly tanky right? I do it all the time, and often times it is a tempest not because tempest is inherently tanky but because a lot of tempests seem to play that way. It's not really a playstyle I respect. So I just turn around and fight someone else somewhere else if it's not possible to burn them down. They're probably not killing me if I'm running anything decent. The aura heal buff makes it possible for tempests to run a little more damage, whether or not they do so is up to them. And it's up to you if you want to fight them in open world pvp lol

Edited December 3, 2022 by solemn.9670

[solemn.9670]

I don't understand it so it's overpowered 😾💦💦💦

[laoshanlung.3675]

I have not played Ele yet so I don't know if it actually is true or not. Yesterday we were defending our keep and at the end we managed to fend off the enemy group. There was this one Ele that was trying to run away, and I chased them (it was 1 v 1 at the time), then 4 more jumped on the chase, guess what? It took 6 people in total and solid 30s to down the ele, it was ridiculous, a bunch of defensive skills, and healing and whatnot... I might roll an Ele to see how it goes 😄 

Edited December 3, 2022 by laoshanlung.3675

[Arheundel.6451]

On 12/2/2022 at 7:45 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

bro... i was standing in a full dps Reaper that did a pve rotation and i just tanked it like its nobodys business.... I know this guy, i roam and play with him everyday. He knows what hes doing, and a powerreaper is literally the worst nightmare of a support tempest... also i was rocking the fireVersion which is weak to power.... and there was no way for him to even make a dent into my sustainwall....    Do you think its fine that there is no possible way to kill a supporter unless you 1v2 or even 1v3 him?     I was literally standing in 4 people spamming /laugh and they couldnt do anything beside running away in shame.   I was literally standing in the camp and they couldnt get me out. They had to leave the camp without capping it.   Now keep in mind that "healing to others" will be even more compared to the selfsustain.....

4 People unable to kill someone that is just standing there.... menacingly...while eating a sandwich..... That kind of stuff is dumb and shouldnt exist.  No build should be able to facetank multiple other people. period.

4x people unable to kill you.....ofc whatever you say....The point remains, if other classes are allowed to do...then ele must be allowed too .

Not even the best example....he's not sporting

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Dwarf_Stance

 

Then we have...

"No build should be able to facetank multiple other people. period."....ha ofc this is not the build but the player....and yeah it's not even minstrel

Who needs to dodge?,,,,

 

OP is a mesmer main by the way

[Sahne.6950]

On 12/3/2022 at 3:28 PM, KinkyPotato.4219 said:

How and where are you even getting this asinine number of healing 5k per aura per person? Elemental bastion has a 391 base heal and 80% healing coefficient. Let's assume that you have the following outgoing healing modifiers in a standard healing build = +82.5% outgoing healing (10% food, 15% utility, 15% aquatic benevolence, 12.5% fully stacked benevolence sigil, 10% Transference sigil, 20% fully stacked rune of the monk).

To get this so called value of 5k Healing per aura, let's look at the official wiki which has the formula for healing done and apply it to this baseless claim.

Total healing done = [(mechanic-specific base healing) + (Healing Power) * (mechanic-specific coefficient)] * (sum of healing multipliers)

Plugging in the numbers above, we get:

5000 = [391 + Healing Power*0.8]*1.825

I'm going to solve this for you because you obviously are not getting 5k Healing per aura.

5000÷1.825 = 391 + (Healing Power*0.8)

2,739.73 -391 = Healing Power*0.8

2,348.72÷0.8 = Healing Power

2,935.9 = Healing Power

So you mean to tell me that, in addition to maintaining 82.5% outgoing healing at all times, you're running around in a gear setup that grants you 2936 Healing Power? Please do tell what this mysteriously OP gear setup is, because there is no way you're getting that much healing power in a full minstrel setup. If you need me to do a number breakdown of minstrel healing power stats as well, let me know....but don't go around spreading misinformation and claims of "healing over 5k per aura per person" when I just proved to you with basic math that it's not possible.

😂don't go around spreading misinformation😂    

😂"let's look at the official wiki which has the formula for healing done and apply it to this baseless claim."😂 

are you even playing support tempest or did you just try to be smart, based on the wiki? XD

Because you forgot a VERY VERY important part in your "cAlCuLaTiOnS"...   Ebastion is not the only source of healing that triggers thru auras.

invigorationg torrents.....   buddy you forgot invigorating torrents 😆

Did i say Ebastion heals for 5k?   or did i say that Tempest can provide a total of 5k healing per person per aura?

Sahne:  "Tempest can provide over 5k Healing per aura per person"  <---- reading is hard sometimes i guess.

Just to make it clear, I am ingame right now. Following things are the BASEVALUES. without healingmultipliers at all.

a single aura provides: 1 Cleanse,  1621 HP from EBastion,  5 seconds of vigor and 1597 Regen (5sec)..   

If we now add your +82,5% Healingmultiplier, that is exactly 5872,85 Healing per aura per person. 

As you can see mister smart,  I even lowballed the 5000 healing per aura   😘

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

On 12/3/2022 at 4:21 PM, solemn.9670 said:

What is the secret to this great power of tempest you speak of? Some day I will discover it and vanquish all foes

you guys know that you can just run away from any player who is needlessly tanky right? I do it all the time,........ It's not really a playstyle I respect

I don't understand it so it's overpowered

Solemn....  go ahead and test it!  5k is even lowballed.... but you think im overexxagerating... which shows that you havent tested any of this at all.... "GREAT POWER OF TEMPEST" yeah.... maybe one day you will discover it... .But that day obviously hasnt come yet.

you seem to have tomatoes on your eyes, or you are finally enjoying the signetTempest build and dont want it nerfed!    yes....  i saw that video 😉

Just run away from the tempest?!. bad thing if you meet two clowns like me and a friend and we just keep tanktesting in your homecamp with 2 tempests. I want to see you walk away in shame from the camp your unable to cap, just because there is 2 Tempests eating a sandwich.🥪   Its not even only the minstreltempest...  Cele is flippin WILD aswell... and you know that!

"needlessly tanky..... It's not really a playstyle I respect."    -He says, while uploading a video where they run 3 (cele?) SignetTempests and a minstrel aurashare ontop, in a single group.

That build is literally the BunkersignetTempest. You just took sceptre instead of dagger and called it a day. *and aftershock instead of CES...  and therefore conjurer ->Burning precision

"Bully WvW Pugs"   3 SignetTempest...... 1 aurashareTempest ontop...... The exact two builds in question..... kinda sus, ngl.

allisvain.

I feel your "but other specs can do this aswell attitude" BIG TIME.

but the point is no spec should be able to heal that much. or be this tanky on its own. You literally cant kill a Supporttempest unless you 2v1 him. Theres no way.  But WvW isnt balanced for smallscale... so they dont even consider that a problem.  Makes smallscale kinda lame ngl.

They just see playnumbers of other supports than FB and Scrapper rise and think their doing a fantastic job.

 

Community send a clear message: we want more boon counterplay, we want less healing, and we need more viable supports.    

Anet: Oh more viable supports? how are we gonna do it🤔.... MORE HEALING! 

Community: we want less healing tho...  :0

Anet: *buffs the healing of a GvG build that already had a spot in a wellthoughtout teamcomp. So instead of making other builds viable, they just flatout increased healing in zergs cuz they dont play their own game enough to really grasp what they are doing.*

This time.... Ele was the lucky one that got the "Throw darts at flipchart" buff.... or was anyone thinking Tempest needed a healingbuff?  anyone?   not me 😄

now we add the buffed sceptre ontop and this is where we are now.

This will backlash! They nerf some core ele stuff.... MARK MY WORDS!

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

For anyone interested in my personal Supporttempest builds that i run for Smallscale, here are they.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAg2lRw2YNMPGKO2TltdA-zVJYjRDfZkaCUdBY0nI0bg3ifbWA-w 

Tanky Version.  It is Optimized for running with a small group of 3 to 6 people. You are the immovable rock in the middle of your team. You provide healing/cleanse/protection/might all that while being a Bunker. This is the one we are running mostly and with great success.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAg2lRwGZNsMWJO0TptfA-zVJYjRDfZkaCUdBY0nI0bg3ifbWA-w

This Version has alot more healing, but is also more vulnerable.

Use This version if: your group is lacking regen / You have a good stabi source in the group, thus you can allow yourself to not run "Harmonious Conduit" / The group is big enough ( 6+) and you can rely on them peeling for you

 

 

😂GROVE RUNE?!😂  Sahne you pleb! why are you using grove rune?!!?

A Tempest has to make a decision... either have cleanse(Fire) or have protection(Earth). Well.. if you run Grove, you can run fire but still provide permanent protection!

Heres how:

Always start the battle with overload earth. Grove will spawn under you and Earthoverload will pulse protection aswell, those two pulsing effects quickly bump you and anyone around you up to a max stack of protection.  Just run into the enemys while overloading earth and after the overload you and everyone that is sticking onto you will be at max stack protection. THIS WORKS SURPRISINGLY WELL! you dont even have to pay any attention to "Grove" when it spawns.  Just run in with earthoverload and as soon as it proccs you get 2 protection applications from it even if you run out of it as fast as you can. This will bump you and everyone around you to 30 seconds protection instantly. You will passively maintain this protection with the help of "Hardy conduit", thru just doing your normal rotations. To top it all off, you also take "Aftershock" and "Armor of Earth" in case the protection gets corrupted or as a panic button, if one of your teammates gets bursted, but doesnt have protection currently.   With this setup you can have permanent increased +39,9% protection, without investing into Earthtraitline at all This way you have the best of both the Fire and Earth version and only sacrifice like 10-13% total healing compared to running monk(e)🐒rune.

 

The tricky thing is to coordinate Your Earthoverload. At best, everyone that needs it is close to you while you Earthoverload, because the overload alone is almost a maxstack protection. If grove proccs, that is also 20 second protection ontop, so there is a good chance your group will get protection from one of your various sources just by your sheer existance next to them. In our group i have no problem keeping protection on everybody.

Even if the Protection would be strictly selfish, aka you could not share it, i would still take Grove rune. Because a Minstreltank with permanent 39,9% protection and a impenetrable cleansewall.... is just busted.

Try grove! its insane! ❤️  If you got the hang of the protection application its a incredible potent support currently.

 

 

For Zergs the 0815 Aurashare will still be superior, but in small havoc groups we are having most success with this setup.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Samis.1750]

Tempest self healing does not benefit from all those healing multipliers.

 

Fruit salad with mint (or the Delicious Rice Balls) only affect outgoing healing - self healing is excluded according to the wiki.  Bountiful maintenance oil, Monk runes (if you use) and Aquamancer training only affects other allies - not oneself.

 

Every healer grants regeneration pretty easily, though Tempest also benefits from soothing mists.

[solemn.9670]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:14 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

😂don't go around spreading misinformation😂    

😂"let's look at the official wiki which has the formula for healing done and apply it to this baseless claim."😂 

are you even playing support tempest or did you just try to be smart, based on the wiki? XD

Because you forgot a VERY VERY important part in your "cAlCuLaTiOnS"...   Ebastion is not the only source of healing that triggers thru auras.

invigorationg torrents.....   buddy you forgot invigorating torrents 😆

Did i say Ebastion heals for 5k?   or did i say that Tempest can provide a total of 5k healing per person per aura?

Sahne:  "Tempest can provide over 5k Healing per aura per person"  <---- reading is hard sometimes i guess.

Just to make it clear, I am ingame right now. Following things are the BASEVALUES. without healingmultipliers at all.

a single aura provides: 1 Cleanse,  1621 HP from EBastion,  5 seconds of vigor and 1597 Regen (5sec)..   

If we now add your +82,5% Healingmultiplier, that is exactly 5872,85 Healing per aura per person. 

As you can see mister smart,  I even lowballed the 5000 healing per aura   😘

 

That is a very sassy post with regard to how painfully wrong it is.

Post a video of you healing for 5k with one aura application. I have a maxed out full minstrel legendary/ascended monk runes meta food TWO STAFFS one with healing stacking the other with optimal sigils for outgoing healing % after I've got 25 stacks and all healing infusions running fire/water/tempest for a mix of cleanse/aura uptime/healing.

Even with all that

Not to mention years of being an ele main

I am not reaching these mythical numbers you're "quoting" off the wiki.

Post a video of it.

Also, tanky stats are tanky - again, shocking

😽

Edited December 6, 2022 by solemn.9670
Didn't include that it was full minstrel stats

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I wanna challange this build 😛

 

Ive fought VERY tanky tempests/weavers and my normal main couldnt do it, had to bring in one of my other 2 mains (DE and DPS Mirage). Mirage did best against them so I bring that when facing them.

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

I wanna challange this build 😛

 

Ive fought VERY tanky tempests/weavers and my normal main couldnt do it, had to bring in one of my other 2 mains (DE and DPS Mirage). Mirage did best against them so I bring that when facing them.

hey! /w me ingame! i will be online in 2 hours.

[anduriell.6280]

On 12/1/2022 at 11:51 AM, Svarty.8019 said:

Of all the balance devs we've had thus far, these are the ones who are supposed to know what they're doing. Of course, it's an impossible task because the core mechanics of each class are so random and wildly different. It's those core class mechanics that cause the problems, and they never get touched.

And what about they put in charge people who actually has experience with the class instead. You can see the total ignorance when you see balance changes on warrior or ranger for example. I doubt you need to touch core to fix an elite.

"but but they won't nerf their favorite..." Correct we have plenty of experience about that with the firebrand and mechanist. Well somebody would think they are all professionals and the TL or lead designer would keep that in check. 

[Sahne.6950]

20 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

That is a very sassy post with regard to how painfully wrong it is.

Post a video of you healing for 5k with one aura application. I have a maxed out full minstrel legendary/ascended monk runes meta food TWO STAFFS one with healing stacking the other with optimal sigils for outgoing healing % after I've got 25 stacks and all healing infusions running fire/water/tempest for a mix of cleanse/aura uptime/healing.

Even with all that

Not to mention years of being an ele main

I am not reaching these mythical numbers you're "quoting" off the wiki.

Post a video of it.

Also, tanky stats are tanky - again, shocking

😽

i am at work currently, but that is what a maxed suptempest will be running, as you can see here, the values are indeed true.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAg2lRwGZNMPGKO0TptfA-zVJYjRDfZkaCUdB47nI0bg3ifbWA-w a maxed minstrelset with monkerunes and riceballs has exactly 1538 healingpower.

 

Invigorating torrents does exactly 1597 regen . and Ebastion(still outdated on the website) will do exactly (391+1538 x 0.8 )1621 with the new scaling.    That is exactly 3218 HP WITHOUT MULTIPLIERS!

the calcs are made with a simple maxed minstrelset, with Monkrunes and Riceballs, no other fancy stuff.....

If we now just take the baselinehealingmultipliers you will have from your gear, again, without any stacking sigils or other fancy stuff...

we are looking at:

+10%riceballs +14% maintenanceoil+10% transference+20%stacked monkrune, = +54%healingmultiplier

which results in a totalhealing of 4955 healing without any fancy stuff added ontop!

The secound you start stacking benevolance your going over 5k healing already. 

I think your not running maxed minstrel... or missing something.. idk...   

How much Healingpower do you have!?

Edited December 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

On 12/2/2022 at 7:25 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

So a class that invests everything into sustain is rediculously tanky? Who would've known.

it would be fine if the class had to invest everything into sustain... if ele uses Fire for cleanse and earth for strikedamage reduction, then your investing everything into sustain.

but you can simply get your protection from other sources than Earth and therefore also fit Water/ aka. the support traitline in there and still be unkillable unless there is atleast 2 or sometimes even 3 people attacking you.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Vortigern.1987]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

we are looking at:

+10%riceballs +14% maintenanceoil+10% transference+20%stacked monkrune, = +54%healingmultiplier

 

All those modifiers are for outgoing healing only, which means that the caster should not profit from them at all.

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Vortigern.1987

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

it would be fine if the class had to invest everything into sustain... if ele uses Fire for cleanse and earth for strikedamage reduction, then your investing everything into sustain.

but you can simply get your protection from other sources than Earth and therefore also fit Water/ aka. the support traitline in there and still be unkillable unless there is atleast 2 or sometimes even 3 people attacking you.

Ele the one support who can still be locked down and hit way harder then any other support in the game. It falls into that mages support (though i wish there was a true gear set that let you fill that roll in true.) Its just other classe do other things better then support so they dont build support even though they would be far more tankly then ele ever could be. Its like saying weaver is far more tankly as an support then tempest ever could be BUT weaver is not a better support so runing the weaver as a tankly support become kind of pointless.

Tempest has some of the least self support in the game and kind of bad baice boon up time and generation. It can be tankly if it just self support but what is the point of playing support if that all your doing.

This seems like an good example of non support players complaining about support classes.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Jski.6180

[Nash.2681]

On 12/2/2022 at 7:25 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

So a class that invests everything into sustain is rediculously tanky? Who would've known.

No breaking news here, indeed. On the other hand it highlights perfectly what's imo totally wrong with the balancing in this game when it comes to competitive modes. You're always better of going the defensive route and usually punished for building to kill things. A full glas cannon and a full sustain tank should neutralize themselves. In reality the tank will easily win those fights. 

And inbefore the "but then a lot of traits and gear stats would be completely useless" argument- yes and no. I always considered those being training wheels for the learning phase of a class and for that, those would still have a purpose.