Why Mesmer is a joke

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

So? It is a thread about my main class, Mesmer, so it shouldn't be surprising if I have input on the topic. All my posts which you called "spam" were replies to Indvidual comments that contained inaccuracies or misconceptions which benefited from clarification or correction.

You do understand there's a difference between me responding to comments about my post and you inserting yourself into every discussion, 4 posts at a time? I bet you're fun at parties.

Regardless, I'm happy to keep arguing pointless kitten with you. The more bumps this thread gets the more likely devs will see it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Just popping in to say Mechanist has a hard skill ceiling at a certain level, because the mech itself is a hinderance.  

Mesmer...absolutely has no skill ceiling.  

[Leonidrex.5649]

17 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

And that the scrapper actually had to interact with its enemy, playing around stab, blind, blocks etc.

Why yes, I am quite skilled, thank you. And no, I probably wouldn't type out against competent players playing non-degen builds because there's nothing to criticize.

if by the interact you mean constantly CC you, have more sustain then any one player in the game and be perpetually immune to CC then yes, I agree.
Then again, cant say if most people would agree that spending 25% of the fight CCed and the rest of the 75% dealing 0 dmg to be very interactive and losing by default by being knocked off, losing node 1 tick at a time.
Then again, mech player so you might see it as a peak gameplay, who am I to judge.

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Just popping in to say Mechanist has a hard skill ceiling at a certain level, because the mech itself is a hinderance.  

Mesmer...absolutely has no skill ceiling.  

oh sweet summer child

[bethekey.8314]

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

if by the interact you mean constantly CC you, have more sustain then any one player in the game and be perpetually immune to CC then yes, I agree.
Then again, cant say if most people would agree that spending 25% of the fight CCed and the rest of the 75% dealing 0 dmg to be very interactive and losing by default by being knocked off, losing node 1 tick at a time.

You seriously don't see the difference between needing to constantly CC to sustain/succeed vs chaining invuln/stealth/blocks? Both are degen and shouldn't exist, but at least one can be +1'd or prevented via positioning/blinds/blocks etc.

Virtuoso is, by far, the more brainless of the two. Bots struggle with positioning, not chaining skills together in set patterns.

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Then again, mech player so you might see it as a peak gameplay, who am I to judge.

I'm convinced people who sincerely reason like this are way more likely to be bigots irl.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

oh sweet summer child

 

Care to prove me wrong?

Because I'm here to show you even pre-rifle nerf mech was an absolute joke:

 

Yes, I understand this is WvW and not PvP, but it's the only 2v1 mech fight I readily have available.  Can also just say the mech would be about half as powerful in sPvP anyway due to how the modes work--so my point still stands.

Mechs are free.

[Waffles.5632]

13 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Care to prove me wrong?

Because I'm here to show you even pre-rifle nerf mech was an absolute joke:

 

Yes, I understand this is WvW and not PvP, but it's the only 2v1 mech fight I readily have available.  Can also just say the mech would be about half as powerful in sPvP anyway due to how the modes work--so my point still stands.

Mechs are free.

I counted like 3 allies helping you...and yes they went down but at the very least they looked like they soaked up a lot of damage that would have otherwise been directed at you.

I don't WvW though but this doesn't look a 2v1 and they don't look like well coordinated players either, so probably not the best example to show imo.

 

Regardless, Mecha isn't OP because of it's damage. It's OP for how little effort it requires to be effective, and comparing Mecha to Virtu is just lulz because a virtu actually needs to press their buttons in the correct order to do anything important, A mecha does not. It's as simple as that. Timing is also significantly more crucial to a Virtu than a Mecha, we are talking massive degrees of importance here.

 

Point Blank Mecha was designed for newer players so by that fact alone, it's mechanics are beefed up to allow for an easier time making mistakes. It has a pet to help share aggro. This is basic balance stuff. The problem is Anet went overboard, as they did with most EoD specs, but this is nothing new! See HoT into PoF.

 

Do people just breeze over how Mecha had a 30k dps AFK ZERO BUTTON build not too long ago? That AFK build is still prolly 15k-25k I bet, but I'm open to being proven wrong. I don't know of any class that can put those numbers out while the actual player goes and makes coffee.

 

At least back when Reaper Auto was 20k and that was respectable, they had to be in melee, Mecha doesn't even need to do that. The amount of reward for zero effort is why Mecha is frustrating, because it trivializes a lot of builds that DO take effort to play. Once again, Mecha is not bad, but the effort to reward ratio is still skewed, and it still has some of the most bloated skills out of any class in GW2. Just look at it's blink for heaven's sake.

 

Out of all the EoD specs, Virtuoso is not the problem here.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 minute ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I counted like 3 allies helping you...and yes they went down but at the very least they looked like they soaked up a lot of damage that would have otherwise been directed at you.

I don't WvW though but this doesn't look a 2v1 and they don't look like well coordinated players either, so probably not the best example to show imo.

 

Regardless, Mecha isn't OP because of it's damage. It's OP for how little effort it requires to be effective, and comparing Mecha to Virtu is just lulz because a virtu actually needs to press their buttons in the correct order to do anything important, A mecha does not. It's as simple as that. Timing is also significantly more crucial to a Virtu than a Mecha, we are talking massive degrees of importance here.

 

The recap, the purpose of the video was to show mechanist isn't OP in the least and has a hard skill ceiling.

You admit you see everyone aside from me coming up to them going down really quick, because most people aren't great at the game.  This doesn't mean mechanist is OP. 

Again, this video comes from pre-rifle nerf when you were getting huge damage for just pressing 1; but that's all you get--kite them and its free.

Past that is a 1v1 with a mesmer that I acutally have a decently hard time with.  This isn't coincidence, because mesmer can be an absolute nightmare if a person knows what they are doing, and if you add all the evade spam and whatnot from distortion it is just night and day with mechanist.

So again, yes mechanist is a destroyer at low skill levels because it was made to be LI.  No one should balance around low skill level though, so I just hate it when I see 'OP' and 'mechanist' in the same sentence.  

[Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259]

On 12/8/2022 at 3:24 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

decap builds were in the meta before, anyone members decap scrapper?
This virtuoso is exactly like decap scrapper used to be.
Only difference is virtuoso de-caps himself rather then the enemy.

Sometimes if you use an invuln as an opponent is contesting your point, you may lose portions of the point. It is up to skilled players to evaluate many factors involved with this and then act appropriately. 

On 12/8/2022 at 3:25 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Also its kind of funny seeing you complain in the chat rather then fight him properly and he cant kill you anyways 😄
 One wonders if you would do the same against actually good side noders 

He doesn't show the parts where he fights me "properly" nor was I trying against someone clearly just spamming text. I was just using skills to not be smashed by his mech while watching him type. That and thinking of the best insults to respond with.

On 12/8/2022 at 12:12 PM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

video should be named 30k games mesmer vs mechanist with no hands on the keyboard 🤣

As long as you're there playing the generic hype man for your boyfriend, I'm okay with that title. More to laugh at. 

[bethekey.8314]

@Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259 still wrong account bud, unless you gave up proving.

And there's no cherry picking going on here lol. That build fights the same regardless of who you're up against, because it's uninteractive and straightforward.

I also think I do a good job backing up calls for balance with video evidence. More than most, more than you. And I keep the videos short and to the point.

So be passive aggressive all you want, I'm loving it. Many, many people watched me have a full on conversation while surviving your 30k game mesmer "skill".

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[bethekey.8314]

After rewatching the video, focusing on the Mech, I realize it only hits the Mesmer once the entire time. Twice if you count the "toolbelt" skill I use.

In fact, the very first thing the Mech does is completely whiff it's "tracking" charge move and slowly waddle onto point after wasting the entire F2 ability.

Where my mech "OP" complainers at? @Leonidrex.5649@Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259@Sleepwalker.1398@Waffles.5632@Bear.9568

@Azure The Heartless.3261 @Fueki.4753@felix.2386@Hotride.2187@Tycura.1982Mech receiving Bull's Charge coding on F1 when?

Edited December 10, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

After rewatching the video, focusing on the Mech, I realize it only hits the Mesmer once the entire time. Twice if you count the "toolbelt" skill I use.

In fact, the very first thing the Mech does is completely whiff it's "tracking" charge move and slowly waddle onto point after wasting the entire F2 ability.

Where my mech "OP" complainers at? @Leonidrex.5649@Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259@Sleepwalker.1398@Waffles.5632@Bear.9568

@Azure The Heartless.3261 @Fueki.4753@felix.2386@Hotride.2187@Tycura.1982Mech receiving Bull's Charge coding on F1 when?

I melted several mechs in WvW this week. Rifle in open field is no joke though. Funny to reflect though lol.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

@Azure The Heartless.3261 Mech receiving Bull's Charge coding on F1 when?

 

I want mech to have a clothesline that tracks like bulls charge but launches you like the end of flesh golem's command skill. You can give it back its defiance bar JUST for this, so you have to cc it down to interrupt the skill, otherwise choo choo 

Not only because it would be funny but because maybe that would let melee mech hit once in its pitiful existence.

Plus it makes the mechanist vuln unless they run alongside the mech, right into melee range. Sounds fine to me. Good setup for rocket jump, would probably combo with overcharged, ok, ok~ 

I'm on board, you've made a grave mistake

Edited December 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[bethekey.8314]

14 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I want mech to have a clothesline that tracks like bulls charge but launches you like the end of flesh golem's command skill. You can give it back its defiance bar JUST for this, so you have to cc it down to interrupt the skill, otherwise choo choo 

Not only because it would be funny but because maybe that would let melee mech hit once in its pitiful existence.

Plus it makes the mechanist vuln unless they run alongside the mech, right into melee range. Sounds fine to me. Good setup for rocket jump, would probably combo with overcharged, ok, ok~ 

I'm on board, you've made a grave mistake

Legitimately sounds fun.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

After rewatching the video, focusing on the Mech, I realize it only hits the Mesmer once the entire time. Twice if you count the "toolbelt" skill I use.

In fact, the very first thing the Mech does is completely whiff it's "tracking" charge move and slowly waddle onto point after wasting the entire F2 ability.

Where my mech "OP" complainers at? @Leonidrex.5649@Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259@Sleepwalker.1398@Waffles.5632@Bear.9568

@Azure The Heartless.3261 @Fueki.4753@felix.2386@Hotride.2187@Tycura.1982Mech receiving Bull's Charge coding on F1 when?

I think it's time you got good and played the game.

You pressed and wasted the F2 not the Mech.

BTW...waiting for your next thread where you say "Why Ele is a joke."

[Waffles.5632]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

The recap, the purpose of the video was to show mechanist isn't OP in the least and has a hard skill ceiling.

You admit you see everyone aside from me coming up to them going down really quick, because most people aren't great at the game.  This doesn't mean mechanist is OP. 

Again, this video comes from pre-rifle nerf when you were getting huge damage for just pressing 1; but that's all you get--kite them and its free.

Past that is a 1v1 with a mesmer that I acutally have a decently hard time with.  This isn't coincidence, because mesmer can be an absolute nightmare if a person knows what they are doing, and if you add all the evade spam and whatnot from distortion it is just night and day with mechanist.

So again, yes mechanist is a destroyer at low skill levels because it was made to be LI.  No one should balance around low skill level though, so I just hate it when I see 'OP' and 'mechanist' in the same sentence.  

I re-watched the video again and I can safely say 2 things:

1. It was not a 2v1 in the slightest, what you showed was a small team skirmish, where your team had the higher numbers.

2. You are being completely dishonest because you're not factoring in you were on LONGBOW druid, and those 2 mecha's did not seem like top tier players. I would love to see you actually do a proper 2v1 against 2 competent mecha's and then let's see what you say. Mecha is not "Free", not even close. I don't even play mecha but I'd be willing be one of the mecha's vs you.

The robot alone is a serious threat all the time and if left unchecked can down a player. Not even ranger pet can do that with as much consistency as the robot. Firebrand is FREE in pvp. That would be an actual truthful and reasonable statement. Mecha = free is just you blowing smoke and you know it, so stop it. You're better than that.

 

Both you and OP have such seriously bad takes here. You want to say Mecha isn't OP because most people aren't great at the game??? What kind of logic is that even. Again mecha has been the ONLY CLASS IN THE HISTORY OF GW2 that has had a 30k ZERO BUTTON AFK spec. There is no planet where that can be considered "balanced and fun game play"

 

Mecha is still the easiest class to play, while still performing the best when factoring in effort vs reward.

 

It is not TOP #1, it is however top 3, 100%

Actual facts have proven this. Mecha has far and away been the most played EoD class at end game content.... HMMM wonder why!

 

Again, here are the actual facts :

ALL EOD specs shipped overtuned, some were more overtuned than others. POF 2.0

Out of ALL EOD specs the top 3 offenders have been, in no particular order:

- Vindi

- Mecha

- Bladesworn

 

But nah let's ignore all of that and nerf virtuoso. Like it's just so unbelievable sometimes how much people are willing to stick their head in the sand on some issues.

 

A lot of noise but barely any substance here. I'm glad most of the responses saw right through OP's blatant bias.

[Waffles.5632]

I see no difference between this video and OP's video.

 

Edit: Afk a few, gonna make some coffee then make a thread called Why Mechanist is a Joke.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[bethekey.8314]

13 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

I think it's time you got good and played the game.

You pressed and wasted the F2 not the Mech.

So I'm not supposed to press my buttons and think they'll work?

 

9 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

A lot of noise but barely any substance here. I'm glad most of the responses saw right through OP's blatant bias

Wasn't it you who compared me to serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer in a video game forum post?

[Waffles.5632]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Wasn't it you who compared me to serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer in a video game forum post?

I did no such thing, I compared the concept of the pot calling the kettle black and never even implied anything you're suggesting now. If you can't even infer that, really no hope left. Not only are you flat out wrong, but that doesn't even have anything to do with what you quoted me on, wow you really are going to be this stubborn okay.

This thread has been amazing to read.

Remember, you can always just play virtu if you find it so broken! 🙂

 

Edit: Also I know you're being stubborn because if you read my post history you will see that I was against giving Virtu the core mesmer distortion it got with one of the recent patches. I don't think Virtu needed even more survivability. So we actually agree, but no hope getting beyond that because you can't handle the simple criticism that your presentation was poorly executed this time.

 

OP doesn't mean highest dps highest stats highest heals most boons, etc. I mean yeah certainly helps, but OP, actual OP, is when the class is so efficient that the game begins to play itself in favor of the actual player playing it. When the effort of one class is far lower but still matches the same rewards, it creates resentment, stagnates gameplay, and is extremely unhealthy for the game.

And for the record, the most effecient way to play gw2 would be to AFK in a spot where you can get infinite rewards. Oh wait what do we call those... (hint: Bots.)

Please tell me where Mecha sacrifices anything. Like for real, tell me an instance where Mecha has to make a choice between X and Y instead of getting both.

FOR INSTANCE:

One of the factors making mecha OP that isnt a stat is the fact that it is 100% ranged. Take the top performing MELEE dps spec vs Mecha on all the EoD strikes and you tell me which class ends up doing more dps overall (hint, it will be mecha)

So it's subtle attributes like this that can determine if a class is actually "OP" or not, and these attributes have nothing to do with stats. I guarantee you if Mecha was primarily Melee, it would not be such a problem.

But again, this is just ONE factor out of MANY that people just gloss over, and instead it's like "oh Virtu is a joke" and that's why this is such a bad take because you can't even see your own stank with Mecha.

I could do a list why Mecha is the most OP class atm but I'll keep it simple, It is the easiest class to play by an order of magnitude, and yet still performs extremely well in ALL game modes. There is literally not a single instance where Mecha doesn't check most if not ALL boxes for the class one would want. It can literally handle every single situation, in every single game mode.

 

But it's not OP. Yeah. You got jokes bro. Really funny jokes.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I re-watched the video again and I can safely say 2 things:

1. It was not a 2v1 in the slightest, what you showed was a small team skirmish, where your team had the higher numbers.

2. You are being completely dishonest because you're not factoring in you were on LONGBOW druid, and those 2 mecha's did not seem like top tier players. I would love to see you actually do a proper 2v1 against 2 competent mecha's and then let's see what you say. Mecha is not "Free", not even close. I don't even play mecha but I'd be willing be one of the mecha's vs you.

The robot alone is a serious threat all the time and if left unchecked can down a player. Not even ranger pet can do that with as much consistency as the robot. Firebrand is FREE in pvp. That would be an actual truthful and reasonable statement. Mecha = free is just you blowing smoke and you know it, so stop it. You're better than that.

<snip>

 

You calling a shortbow a longbow is telling me a lot here.

Anyway, if you want to come find me go ahead; again, I've never seen a top tier mechanist.  They'd switch to holo by the time they go up tiers.

 

[Waffles.5632]

28 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

You calling a shortbow a longbow is telling me a lot here.

Anyway, if you want to come find me go ahead; again, I've never seen a top tier mechanist.  They'd switch to holo by the time they go up tiers.

 

I'm human I make mistakes my b, also holo just got buffed and has always been top tier, but not always fotm. You're just saying Engi has two top tier pvp specs now which I agree with completely.

 

Also lol no, as I said, I don't play mecha and I don't WvW. I'd only do it if you set up. I'm not asking for anything other than to prove what you posted. You said mecha is free, just kite and u can do a 2v1 ez. So it should be simple to get me +1 other mecha to 1v2 you. I think we both know exactly how that would turn out though.

But I could be wrong!

Edited December 10, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Gotejjeken.1267]

18 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I'm human I make mistakes my b, also holo just got buffed and has always been top tier, but not always fotm. You're just saying Engi has two top tier pvp specs now which I agree with completely.

 

Also lol no, as I said, I don't play mecha and I don't WvW. I'd only do it if you set up. I'm not asking for anything other than to prove what you posted. You said mecha is free, just kite and u can do a 2v1 ez. So it should be simple to get me +1 other mecha to 1v2 you. I think we both know exactly how that would turn out though.

But I could be wrong!

 

I'm not going through the effort of setting up a 2v1 I didn't explicitly ask for (just showed its possible and pretty easy on the right build); anyway, the fact we're even talking about a 2v1 already means mecha is free 😂.

That was the point--I wouldn't be offering to 2v1 two mesmers, least of all not in sPvP where spaces are tighter than WvW.  

[Waffles.5632]

Uhhh if it's free, you should be able to 1v2 mecha ez. Why are you backing out if it's free? See this is the dishonesty I am getting at. You are saying Mecha is free, and you linked a SUS vid claiming 1v2. Upon further inspection it turns out it is not in fact, a 1v2, but rather a 5v2 in YOUR FAVOR.

Now you're backing out of your claim because everyone in this entire thread knows, absolutely, against any actual players, you cannot 1v2 two mechas. At least be honest about it my goodness.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Nezekan.2671]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:34 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Just popping in to say Mechanist has a hard skill ceiling at a certain level, because the mech itself is a hinderance.  

Mesmer...absolutely has no skill ceiling.  

So, if it has no skill ceiling you most be top 100 with mesmer every season? Virtuoso is one the easier side, but Mesmer has never been. You have to work harder to achieve the same results you can get with classes like Necro or Guardian. Yes, more work for same results, not more work for better results.

It's been a running theme with Mesmer for 10 years now. People who complain about Mesmer cannot play it.

[Koensol.5860]

Gotta love people defending a horribly designed class like virtuoso with bloated defences making for extremely uninteractive encounters. Instead of criticizing the OP, why don't you guys explain to us why virtuoso and specifically this build is such a healthy class for the game? Why not explain to us how you think this kind of build is fun to play against? Because I think some of you don't see the difference between overperforming on a meta level, or just having a toxic and uninteractive design that just creates frustration.