Dragon's End is still massively overtuned and random

[Firebeard.1746]

4 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

That’s not true but if you prefer boring and unchallenging open world content you can play the other 99% of open world. 

Given the number of PuGs I've done vs. actually organized runs and the success rates in each, I'm fairly certain it's true. Success rates shoot up through the roof in organized runs. 

 

Also GL doing Oil meta, DS, TT without any organization. So If I'm understanding you correctly, interesting OW content = must have full boons and do gobs of DPS to pass? 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Silent.6137]

32 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Also GL doing Oil meta, DS, TT without any organization. So If I'm understanding you correctly, interesting OW content = must have full boons and do gobs of DPS to pass? 

What is full boons?

You obviously don't do this meta much judging from your comments.

[vares.8457]

36 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

What is full boons?

You obviously don't do this meta much judging from your comments.

Most of those who complain do not do it often

[Firebeard.1746]

33 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

Most of those who complain do not do it often

Wow deflection. Full boons = full offensive boons, which is what ensuring alac + quick for every sub gives you (might and fury usually come for free). You still have yet to explain what actually makes this interesting vs other metas in light of them requiring actual coordination. Or have you never done TT?

I've completed it a few times. I don't particularly enjoy it but do it occaisionally so I know what it takes to succeed and I avoid PuGs like the plague because as the OP states, the meta isn't designed for PuGs to succeed. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Is failing 90%+ of the time if you don't enter a pre-organized community group exciting? Is that a good experience for players? 

Thats just not true. 90% failing. 

But otherwise yes.  Its quite clear in chat that excitement level is much higher for players after succesful TT or DE compared toother.metas.

[Firebeard.1746]

10 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Thats just not true. 90% failing. 

But otherwise yes.  Its quite clear in chat that excitement level is much higher for players after succesful TT or DE compared toother.metas.

You're misquoting me. I'm specifically referring to groups that don't come from or started by communities. rando commed Pugs that don't do roles or just rando groups I'd be surprised if they're lower than 90% failure. A success % in a box is useless if 90% of successful runs are done by snow crows and no one else cares. That's a bit of an exaggeration as the meta isn't that complicated, but my point is, if it's just the same few people running it and this supposed massive, epic conclusion of the dragon saga is something 90% of the player base won't touch, that's bad. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[yoni.7015]

11 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

this supposed massive, epic conclusion of the dragon saga is something 90% of the player base won't touch, that's bad. 

How do you know that 90% of the player base won’t touch it? From where do you have that number? 
I run the meta three times a week, every time there are different players in the squad. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Silent.6137]

16 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Full boons = full offensive boons

Full boons =/= full offensive boons

[Firebeard.1746]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

How do you know that 90% of the player base won’t touch it? From where do you have that number? 

It's just a guess. How many LFGs do you see for it vs other random events? Or heck, just map populations particpating in events. There's old Living world maps with more people in them than DE in off-peak hours. heck, I think I've seen more Drakkar. 

[Firebeard.1746]

2 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Full boons =/= full offensive boons

Well I clarified what I meant, I hope that's a enough for you. Though stab is incredibly important too, so to pretend it and aegis don't help is also a massive misrepresentation of the fight. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Cuks.8241]

1 minute ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

It's just a guess. How many LFGs do you see for it vs other random events? Or heck, just map populations particpating in events. There's old Living world maps with more people in them than DE in off-peak hours. heck, I think I've seen more Drakkar. 

Its been shown many times in this threads thats  the second most popular and completed meta in EOD.

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Firebeard.1746 said:

hough stab is incredibly important too, so to pretent it and aegies don't help is also a massive misrepresentation of the fight. 

It really isn’t, again you show that you don’t do the meta often. 

[Firebeard.1746]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

It really isn’t, again you show that you don’t do the meta often. 

I never claimed I did it often:

 

 

22 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I've completed it a few times. I don't particularly enjoy it but do it occaisionally so I know what it takes to succeed and I avoid PuGs like the plague because as the OP states, the meta isn't designed for PuGs to succeed. 

Though the comms I did it with that used stab had a much easier time and now I'm wondering more about you.... Please tell me all the mechanics that stab counters. 

[Silent.6137]

2 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Well I clarified what I meant, I hope that's a enough for you. Though stab is incredibly important too, so to pretent it and aegies don't help is also a massive misrepresentation of the fight. 

Don't call it full boon then because that is a massive misrepresentation of the fight. Call it what it is. Have I ever stated that or pretended that stability and aegis doesn't help? All boons help, even in the simplest of fights. But it's a matter of degrees.

If you're going to call it And it's really a raid buff/comp test and full boons, then it should be what you'd expect from raids. Not simply exaggerated phrases.

[yoni.7015]

21 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Though the comms I did it with that used stab had a much easier time

Of course every boon is helpful, but stability is absolutely not needed or crucial in order to win the fight. It definitely is not “incredibly important”
It’s better to dodge and to jump than to waste utility skills for stability. 

[Firebeard.1746]

30 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Of course every boon is helpful, but stability is absolutely not needed or crucial in order to win the fight. It definitely is not “incredibly important”
It’s better to dodge and to jump than to waste utility skills for stability. 

Okay now you really have me wondering. 

[Firebeard.1746]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

Don't call it full boon then because that is a massive misrepresentation of the fight. Call it what it is. Have I ever stated that or pretended that stability and aegis doesn't help? All boons help, even in the simplest of fights. But it's a matter of degrees.

If you're going to call it And it's really a raid buff/comp test and full boons, then it should be what you'd expect from raids. Not simply exaggerated phrases.

Stab is massive degrees of improvement. There's far less to pay attention to and even some mechanics it compeltely negates. But stab isn't raid comp either (there's some fights it's required but many don't). Raid comp, at least the consistent one, is offensive boons only. Though prot is super helpful on many fights. I think from context and other posts of mine, at this point, it should be obvious I was referring to full offensive boons and this looks like splitting hairs in an attempt to ignore how tedious setting up the encounter is. It also sidesteps how easy it is to have a failing group comp, which i think is the main gripe from the OP.. This is really the only meta event that's a hard DPS check. We have metas with timers, but they're so lenient they don't matter that much. This is the only meta with such a strict timer that the DPS output actually matters. And that means at least all offensive boons and enough people wearing enough offensive stats (with knowledge of their rotation).  Every other event is covering mechanics and roles. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Silent.6137]

21 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

 and this looks like splitting hairs in an attempt to ignore how tedious setting up the encounter is.

It's not splitting hairs when you use hyperbole to generalize. None of your reply here even come close to the actuality. As I said earlier, judging from what you had said, you seem to have very little experience with this meta. So you generalize.

[Firebeard.1746]

I've clarified plenty to make it clear it wasn't hyperbole. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

And yet the guy who agrees with you pretended you could just jump over or dodge all stab mechanics when there are ones that aren't telegraphed....

Maybe do the meta a couple of times with a squad and competent commander. Then you’ll know what I am talking about instead of being wondered. 

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Is the general population displeased with 'having' to use decent builds and interacting with each other on higher level than just seeing the crowd of nameless faces? Is that what's happening? 

When they are expected to use builds the game does not help them in any way to obtain? Yes. Notice, that to get more decent builds, players generally have to reach to third-party builds, which is not what most players do.

It would have been completely different if the build system was something straightforward and easy to learn, but it is not. What we have is something completely opposite to that - a freestyle system that is so convoluted that learning it on your own without help from others is practically impossible (to the point where even the extremely limited amount of people that are crafting the builds for the rest of the community didn't learn the system on their own).

So, it's not that general population is displeased with having to use decent builds. It's that general population simply has no idea what is a decent build (and what is not). And then they get displeased when the game starts to require from them the knowledge they do not have, because the game did not provide it to them in easy enough to understand way.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, that to get more decent builds, players generally have to reach to third-party builds, which is not what most players do.

We use google and the internet for everything and all the time. But suddenly most players stop using google when it comes to the game they play? That’s really hard to believe. 
It’s a matter of seconds to find good builds. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Firebeard.1746]

8 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Maybe do the meta a couple of times with a squad and competent commander. Then you’ll know what I am talking about instead of being wondered. 

Really? Because last I checked, my comm used stab to negate mechanics from adds, others said to kill them. Not all stab mechanics are outright dodgeable/telegraphed and other ways around them are explicitly taught. Even if the add ones were, there's so much visual diahrea and limited dodges, it doesn't matter.  That's why I've been wondering. This is the asinine "just dodge' hyperbole I was hearing when I was first learning to raid, it's not helpful to anyone, at all. But of course you've persued personal attacks instead of explaining what you find enjoyable and why which is what I was talking about with someone else when you interjected with all of this. I see no explanations here about why it's enjoyable and what most of the player base is missing in terms of fun factor, just personal attacks. 

 

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, it's not that general population is displeased with having to use decent builds. It's that general population simply has no idea what is a decent build (and what is not).

That and it takes a while to learn to play those builds effectively in OW. Most players in OW are intentionally running more solo builds because they're not used to counting on other players, and that's a very sane thing depending on which content they're doing. You have to go out of your way to gear for this and those builds may not even be effective on content you normally do in OW. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[yoni.7015]

14 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Really? Because last I checked, my comm used stab to negate mechanics from adds, others said to kill them. Not all stab mechanics are outright dodgeable/telegraphed and other ways around them are explicitly taught. Even if the add ones were, there's so much visual diahrea and limited dodges, it doesn't matter.  That's why I've been wondering. This is the asinine "just dodge' hyperbole I was hearing when I was first learning to raid, it's not helpful to anyone, at all. But of course you've persued personal attacks instead of explaining what you find enjoyable and why which is what I was talking about with someone else when you interjected with all of this. I see no explanations here about why it's enjoyable and what most of the player base is missing in terms of fun factor, just personal attacks. 

 

That and it takes a while to learn to play those builds effectively in OW. Most players in OW are intentionally running more solo builds because they're not used to counting on other players, and that's a very sane thing depending on which content they're doing. You have to go out of your way to gear for this and those builds may not even be effective on content you normally do in OW. 

Like I wrote before, of course stability can be useful but it is not needed and it is not a must have for this fight  

Please show me where I personally attacked you. 

[Firebeard.1746]

8 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Like I wrote before, of course stability can be useful but it is not needed and it is not a must have for this fight  

Please show me where I personally attacked you. 

You were asserting I didn't have experience with the fight saying "just dodge/jump" to deal with CC mechanics, when add clearing is an important part of the strat when stab isn't brought. And you spent quite a bit of time focusing on that without acknowledging adds or what they do in the fight. 

 

Then you spent 5 posts pretending that was all that needed to happen and even here, you're still not really acknowledging that straight up dodging/jumping isn't the whole strategy for dealing with crowd control. you're reframing is as "stab isn't required", when i was clearly calling out that your instruction was insufficient in my previous post. 

Though all of these conversations have strayed pretty far from where I started with tons of nitpicking. I was hoping to hear more about why this is fun for you and others and why you think enforcing the comp as is is fun and engaging gameplay. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Firebeard.1746