Dragon's End is still massively overtuned and random

[vares.8457]

39 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

make the event an actually enjoyable and equitable experience for mixed-skill and mixed-knowledge groups

It already is … 

[idpersona.3810]

16 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

It already is … 

In your (and several other people in this thread obviously) opinion. Given that there had been a lot of debate around the topic for the entire time the meta has been out (10 months?), it should be uncontroversial to say that a sizable potion of players disagree. 

[Silent.6137]

11 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

In your (and several other people in this thread obviously) opinion. Given that there had been a lot of debate around the topic for the entire time the meta has been out (10 months?), it should be uncontroversial to say that a sizable potion of players disagree. 

Which implies that a sizable portion of players agree or there will not be an extended debate. Right?

[vares.8457]

15 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

In your (and several other people in this thread obviously) opinion. Given that there had been a lot of debate around the topic for the entire time the meta has been out (10 months?), it should be uncontroversial to say that a sizable potion of players disagree. 

If you don’t enjoy the meta that’s fine, there are so many other meta events in the game. There are meta events that I don’t particularly enjoy but I don’t complain about them on the forum for days. I just play the stuff I enjoy. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by vares.8457

[idpersona.3810]

27 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Which implies that a sizable portion of players agree or there will not be an extended debate. Right?

It does. But then the issue doesn't really have a consensus which seemed to be the response's presentation. That was my only point there.
There isn't a terribly good way to tell how the majority of players feel about it sadly.

 

29 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

If you don’t enjoy the meta that’s fine, there are so many other meta events in the game. There are meta events that I don’t particularly enjoy but I don’t complain about them on the forum for days. I just play the stuff I enjoy. 

Don't get me wrong. I get that opinion. And I enjoy the meta just fine when I have an hour or 2 to kill and nothing more pressing to accomplish in game. If timing lines up perfectly and it's early enough I can even sometimes get on a map with a group that will do well.
But again, if you just so happen to be on a map and the meta starts you have a better than average chance of failure. This meta isn't set up to be successful under those circumstances. I think raising the map cap might fix that, but who knows.

I'm only on the forums to kill time between projects at work. But I also see that there are a lot of players who had wanted to (or would want to) enjoy this meta but find it inaccessible. And I think that's a shame. I don't see the harm in players coming to the forums to make suggestions that might make something (in this case, the DE meta) more accessible. Especially since some of the ideas presented shouldn't even affect the players already doing the meta in any negative way. Like seriously, if you lose nothing from a change, why care if someone else benefits?

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Honestly if the meta was extended by 5 minute, it fail the same amount.  Unless the event is completely idiot proofed, more and more awful players will enter the meta and drive to fail rate back into the current fail rate.

I would rather have a engaging meta than a snore fest for organized group, but still have the awful fail rate for the awful puggles that infest this game.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Shadowmoon.7986
for some reason cell phone creates a ton of spaces

[AliamRationem.5172]

33 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Honestly if the meta waa extended by 5 minute, it fail the same amount.  Unless the event is completely idiot proofed, more and more awful players will enter the meta and drive to fail rate back into the current fail rate.

I would rather have a engaging meta than a snore fest for organized group, but still have the awful fail rate for the awful puggles that infest this game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tiered rewards based on completion time with a more forgiving failure state would appease both sides, no?

[idpersona.3810]

15 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Honestly if the meta waa extended by 5 minute, it fail the same amount.  Unless the event is completely idiot proofed, more and more awful players will enter the meta and drive to fail rate back into the current fail rate.

I would rather have a engaging meta than a snore fest for organized group, but still have the awful fail rate for the awful puggles that infest this game.

Wow. Well that's just a terrible take. And attitude. And not conducive to any sort of constructive discussion.

Personally, I don't think there are "awful players". And I think there is a way to balance the meta around a range of player types by offering scaling rewards. After reading through and participating in the 7 pages of this thread so far, I think that's where I land on it.

 

Another idea would be to let them complete it in a story chapter like Dragonstorm, so those players can continue onto the lore collections/quests that you can only do afterwards. There are plenty of ideas and possible solutions floating around, though I think Anet has likely moved on and won't revisit DE at this point anyways. I doubt it would be worth the resource investment. 

[idpersona.3810]

Sorry for posting twice in a row, I couldn't figure out how to add this to the above one.

3 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Tiered rewards based on completion time with a more forgiving failure state would appease both sides, no?

You would think so, but there has been several in this thread that seem to push back against the premise.

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Sorry for posting twice in a row, I couldn't figure out how to add this to the above one.

Quote the person> click Edit>Scroll down to the bottom where you'll normally quote/comment>Click on outer portion of quote>right-click & copy>Go to Edit section and paste. You will have to put a couple of lines of spaces below your edit and paste just below your Edit because the pasting will not leave you room to add comments.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Ashen.2907]

On 12/20/2022 at 12:42 PM, idpersona.3810 said:

I know (and have seen on forums) many people who finished EoD and just don't return to the maps.

I know, and have seen supporting comments on the forums, many people who do not return to HoT, or PoF, or core maps as well.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[idpersona.3810]

13 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Quote the person> click Edit>Scroll down to the bottom where you'll normally quote/comment>Click on outer portion of quote>right-click & copy>Go to Edit section and paste. You will have to put a couple of lines of spaces below your edit and paste just below your Edit because the pasting will not leave you room to add comments.

Thank you.

5 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I know, and have seen supporting comments on the forums, many people who do not return to HoT, or PoF, or core maps as well.

Fair enough. We mostly have anecdotal evidence to go on. To me it seemed that after the initial rush, EoD maps emptied out faster than previous expansions did. Obviously the populations caps could have something (maybe a lot) to do with it.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:23 PM, Hotride.2187 said:

I've been doing DE daily for the last 3 weeks (I skipped 3 days cause of personal issues), I've not had a meta fail. I'm joining organized groups only (quick+alac+comm calls splits for phases), we finish the meta with 2-3 min to spare at least.

If your players need to premade and organize open world content with specific builds to succeed, the content is a failure.

Content like this belongs in instances, not open world.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Kozumi.5816]

On 12/17/2022 at 5:00 PM, Debesyla.7102 said:

Not every meta has to be 100% success.

So 1 out of the dozens of metas created since the games release doesn't have a 100% success rate. Makes sense.

[Silent.6137]

12 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

If your players need to premade and organize open world content with specific builds to succeed, the content is a failure.

Virtually all metas has seen some organizations and been premade. So, they are all failures then,

5 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

So 1 out of the dozens of metas created since the games release doesn't have a 100% success rate. Makes sense.

Apparently you haven't played this game that long or just choose to forget. Practically no meta has a 100% success rate since release.

[Cuks.8241]

I would just give 25% dmg increase to all players on the platform during the meta and remove all the preparation. That way groups could start on time for the escorts and would be in line with other longer metas. This would also increase efficacy of  groups a little bit as everyone would always be at the same power lvl as with max map buff but only as intended now. I wouldnt nerf the main event.

You could still stack the buff before the meta but it would only be for extra chests. And you could collect those chests even if meta fails. So a little reward even for fail. 

This would actually be similar to Hot maps. You can do prep for extra rewards, but the main event is now independent.

[Astralporing.1957]

32 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Virtually all metas has seen some organizations and been premade. So, they are all failures then,

There's no single other meta that requires "(quick+alac+comm calls splits for phases)" to have a chance of succeeding. Not even Triple Trouble (which is heads above all other pre-EoD metas organizationwise). And as for potential dps checks, the only meta i still see sometimes fail due to lack of dps is Drakkar (and only if it starts with small group of players - it never happens to larger squads, even if they are completely ad-hoc made). No other meta has a dps check based around a large part of the squad running actual dps builds (instead of the run of the mill random OW ones), with high level of boon coverage either. Those things are generally limited to instanced content only - with the glaring exception of DE.

That's why DE is being considered by a lot of players to be a design failure. And why most players that think otherwise are among those that do like and play instanced content which this meta so much resemble.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Silent.6137]

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There's no single other meta that requires "(quick+alac+comm calls splits for phases)" to have a chance of succeeding. Not even Triple Trouble (which is heads above all other pre-EoD metas organizationwise). And as for potential dps checks, the only meta i still see sometimes fail due to lack of dps is Drakkar (and only if it starts with small group of players - it never happens to larger squads, even if they are completely ad-hoc made). No other meta has a dps check based around a large part of the squad running actual dps builds (instead of the run of the mill random OW ones), with high level of boon coverage either. Those things are generally limited to instanced content only - with the glaring exception of DE.

That's why DE is being considered by a lot of players to be a design failure. And why most players that think otherwise are among those that do like and play instanced content which this meta so much resemble.

 

 

 I'm sure you know perfectly well what I meant by Organize and Premade. But just in case, organize as in getting a group to meta map via LFG and essentially premade. NO. Quick and alac are not required but they certainly do help. Do you need to split into 10 subs? No. But again it helps. Can it succeed without them? Absolutely. But you already know all that. Or perhaps you don't because you stop going to DE meta and have no clue on it's state now?

Assigning splits is no different than at Triple Trouble, Gerent, Octovine, Dragonfall, Dragonstorm, etc. Except that most of those have a comm to tag the splits and the groups are not required to split after that. Dragonstorm, there's a clear-cut split at phases, in case it slips your mind. Remember Braham and Ryland? Or the splits at Drizzlewood although there's no timers involved?

Do all metas have to follow the same format?

I couldn't care less about any mentions of dps check as a few loves to throw them around. All meta has them to a certain degree. So, when anyone mention that, it's just white noise to me.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Freya.9075]

5 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

If your players need to premade and organize open world content with specific builds to succeed, the content is a failure.

Content like this belongs in instances, not open world.

I’ve joined many squads that do not do this and still succeed. It makes it easier to finish the meta, but it is not required. 

[Debesyla.7102]

It's a good game design if the final meta of expansion requires players to actually learn the game and press right (boon) buttons.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Debesyla.7102

[yoni.7015]

27 minutes ago, Debesyla.7102 said:

It's a good game design if the final meta of expansion requires players to actually learn the game and press right (boon) buttons.

Yes, it would be boring and disappointing if the final meta would be another loot piñata. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by yoni.7015

[vares.8457]

7 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

If your players need to premade and organize open world content with specific builds to succeed, the content is a failure.

You don’t need to do that but this is actually what open world was missing. So it clearly is not a failure, it brings open world content to a new level. It acknowledges that there are different types of open world players.
You want unchallenging open world content? There are dozens of meta events for you.

You want to organize yourself, play specific specs and like a little challenge? Cool, here is this awesome DE meta for you. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by vares.8457

[The Boz.2038]

7 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

If your players need to premade and organize open world content with specific builds to succeed, the content is a failure.

No, lol. This is fractally wrong.

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

So 1 out of the dozens of metas created since the games release doesn't have a 100% success rate. Makes sense.

I feel like this is a meta followed by a world boss. Just imagine having to do an hour long meta before Triple Trouble.

 

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

No, lol. This is fractally wrong.

Did you just make a pun that I don't get or did you mean factually?

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Did you just make a pun that I don't get or did you mean factually?

Nope, fractally.

It is when something is wrong itself, and it makes claims that are wrong based on assumptions that are wrong and applying logic that is wrong.

Like a fractal. It's wrong, and as you keep zooming in, it just keeps being wrong.