make scepter 3 a siphon for core mes

[Eddie.9143]

would be a nice bit of sustain that it seriously lacks.

[Ombras.2853]

Not just for core tbh. I’d really like the change, even if it means to lower the damage on it. 

[Moradorin.6217]

Im not sure how a tap on the burst skill on scepter would be a good thing. For one its a condi weapon and life taps tend to use power for damage I think so Im not sure it would make a good fit. Also the 3 skill is the multi-target burst and I dont see adding a life tap to a burst skill as a healthy suggestion. Also scepter isnt a good strong weapon in general. Scepter could use a better GM trait. If you wanted to improve sustain on scepter it seems like the simplest thing would be to make the 2 second block it has actually block all attacks for 2 sec not just the first attack OR maybe add the life-tap or some kind of heal or additional damage mitigation (gain aegis, protection, or regen maybe) after a successful block to reward proper use of the defensive mechanic on scepter 2 instead. Again scepter 3 is a multi-target burst w condi application, that doesnt sound like a thing to add a tap to and wouldnt help Core Mesmer in general with sustain. Core Mesmers problem isnt sustain IMO its lack of sustained damage and all the general stuff most classes have that Mesmer doesnt get.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Justine.6351]

17 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Not just for core tbh. I’d really like the change, even if it means to lower the damage on it. 

It has damage?

[Dadnir.5038]

Believe me, you absolutely don't want the devs to put any siphon on any of your weapon skills. This is one of the worst thing that can happen in this game. This is the very reason necromancer's off-hand weapon are all crap. Don't shoot yourself in the knee!

[LadyKitty.6120]

Not sure what gamemode you're talking about but in PVE, Scepter with Illusionary Inspiration traited has some pretty nice sustain going on to the point of being best heal weapon for mesmer as a whole (excl. Virtuoso). 

[Ombras.2853]

Tbh it’s quite the opposite: Scepter is a decent/good weapon in PvP mode and it sees exactly 0 play in PvE other than in *extremely* fringe builds.

[apharma.3741]

You know what would be a nice addition to weapons? Boon removal. On every weapon set. The game needs it. Mesmer is supposed to be good at it.

Come on ANet, 2+2 =

[Vinny.7260]

Why not just look at traitlines like Dueling instead of making Scepter another bad situation for Mesmer.

Why not just move Restorative Mantras to Dueling to replace Desperate Decoy or something... Instantly provides sustain. Inspiration currently holds two utility types hostage.

Idk what to do about Inspiration though.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vinny.7260

[Terrorhuz.4695]

PvP history shows plenty of good reasons why mesmer should never have access to resustain.

But what if (and I'm just spitballing) scepter3 with every beamlet gave 0.25s cripple?
Just saying. If you dodge you get rid of the cripple because low duration = can't stack it, but so long as you're getting hit you're not going anywhere. Would be a great way to ensure such a long channel could actually hit something.

[Vinny.7260]

6 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

PvP history shows plenty of good reasons why mesmer should never have access to resustain.

You have a huge point as to why Mesmer can't have access to resustain.

A majority of its resustain mechanics, such as Restorative Illusions, Restorative Mantras, etc. Are associated to something Mesmer can readily spam or get access to without much sacrifice.

The metas that have had Mesmer be a mandatory pick have always been involved with a defensive trait line that was overperforming or a portion of the elite specialization associated was able to readily abuse that specialty.

Mantra Double Range Mesmer (Had 3 mantras equipped, Harmonizing Mantras for a 3% damage mod per mantra used, had 3 ammo with mantras and healed roughly 2.3k after channeling the mantra). This all combo'd together to create a spec that was capable of being very easy to resustain, had high burst potential, and had access to Portal on top of it all. This was also back when Shadowstep was able to port to spots that you could get to via jumping/etc. So Staff had a massive advantage at the time.

Chronobunker (Inspiration) was able to heal a lot, cleanse a lot, condi-bomb via Doom Sigil and Geomancy Sigil, and have a really low CD on its block due to Persistence of Memory providing a CD reduction to Phantasms when you shattered a Phantasm, and Chronophantasma caused that Phantasm to summon YET again. It also used Mental Defense to summon an additional Phantasm on a low CD... Plus Alacrity. (Which was -33% at the time).

Ineptitude Mirage was able to have a permanent supply of Regeneration via Chaotic Interruptions, Blind from CCs, Might from CCs, immobilize via CCs, and even used Deadshot (Condition Damage/Precision/Vitality/Expertise), or Wanderer (which was Toughness instead of Vitality). To just constantly shut down the match up and or just the enemy due to the permanent immobilize/blind.

Chaos Staff was able to constantly evade with perma vigor, regeneration, steady 15 might, and had reliable instant stability and ports to get away while keeping a node contested. It was basically unkillable with all of its defensive mechanics from Mirage Cloak, Desert Distortion, and Distortion itself. On top of that, it was constantly generating clones to use for Infinite Horizons, part of why Mirage has one dodge right now.

It's completely understandable why the devs are hesitant to give Mesmer back its sustain it had in the past, especially with its track record of being incredibly toxic to fight against. Not EVEN counting the playstyle and the general style Mesmer plays.Right now Mesmer has a lot of reliable builds that could be healthily adjusted instead of just re-enabling old builds. The moment you bring back the second dodge on Mirage, you're going to see Ineptitude Mirages and Staff Mirages coming around again with a reckoning.

There's also the fact that current Carrion Axe Mirage is capable of playing into players CURRENTLY and win lots of match ups due to a SINGLE trait being incredibly strong. (Power Block). Give them a second dodge and everyone is going to hate Mirage again. They still hate pink class, right now, due to Virtuoso having so much Invulnerability. AND it doesn't even have a powerful enough role to be a good pick due to how slow it is!

 

Anyway...

Quote

But what if (and I'm just spitballing) scepter3 with every beamlet gave 0.25s cripple?
Just saying. If you dodge you get rid of the cripple because low duration = can't stack it, but so long as you're getting hit you're not going anywhere. Would be a great way to ensure such a long channel could actually hit something.

 

I want to see Scepter get some changes to scale with the number of clones you have. Like Illusionary Counter inflicting an additional stack of Torment per clone on the field. Confusing Images could inflict Cripple to enemies with Torment on them. (0.5s per pulse).

I also want to see Malicious Scepter increase the potency of Compounding Power (The Illusions trait) to 3% per stack and 50 Condition Damage per stack. Remove the cooldown reduction though.

[Loic.9657]

On 1/16/2023 at 11:41 PM, Vinny.7260 said:

You have a huge point as to why Mesmer can't have access to resustain.

A majority of its resustain mechanics, such as Restorative Illusions, Restorative Mantras, etc. Are associated to something Mesmer can readily spam or get access to without much sacrifice.

The metas that have had Mesmer be a mandatory pick have always been involved with a defensive trait line that was overperforming or a portion of the elite specialization associated was able to readily abuse that specialty.

Mantra Double Range Mesmer (Had 3 mantras equipped, Harmonizing Mantras for a 3% damage mod per mantra used, had 3 ammo with mantras and healed roughly 2.3k after channeling the mantra). This all combo'd together to create a spec that was capable of being very easy to resustain, had high burst potential, and had access to Portal on top of it all. This was also back when Shadowstep was able to port to spots that you could get to via jumping/etc. So Staff had a massive advantage at the time.

Chronobunker (Inspiration) was able to heal a lot, cleanse a lot, condi-bomb via Doom Sigil and Geomancy Sigil, and have a really low CD on its block due to Persistence of Memory providing a CD reduction to Phantasms when you shattered a Phantasm, and Chronophantasma caused that Phantasm to summon YET again. It also used Mental Defense to summon an additional Phantasm on a low CD... Plus Alacrity. (Which was -33% at the time).

Ineptitude Mirage was able to have a permanent supply of Regeneration via Chaotic Interruptions, Blind from CCs, Might from CCs, immobilize via CCs, and even used Deadshot (Condition Damage/Precision/Vitality/Expertise), or Wanderer (which was Toughness instead of Vitality). To just constantly shut down the match up and or just the enemy due to the permanent immobilize/blind.

Chaos Staff was able to constantly evade with perma vigor, regeneration, steady 15 might, and had reliable instant stability and ports to get away while keeping a node contested. It was basically unkillable with all of its defensive mechanics from Mirage Cloak, Desert Distortion, and Distortion itself. On top of that, it was constantly generating clones to use for Infinite Horizons, part of why Mirage has one dodge right now.

It's completely understandable why the devs are hesitant to give Mesmer back its sustain it had in the past, especially with its track record of being incredibly toxic to fight against. Not EVEN counting the playstyle and the general style Mesmer plays.Right now Mesmer has a lot of reliable builds that could be healthily adjusted instead of just re-enabling old builds. The moment you bring back the second dodge on Mirage, you're going to see Ineptitude Mirages and Staff Mirages coming around again with a reckoning.

There's also the fact that current Carrion Axe Mirage is capable of playing into players CURRENTLY and win lots of match ups due to a SINGLE trait being incredibly strong. (Power Block). Give them a second dodge and everyone is going to hate Mirage again. They still hate pink class, right now, due to Virtuoso having so much Invulnerability. AND it doesn't even have a powerful enough role to be a good pick due to how slow it is!

 

Anyway...

I want to see Scepter get some changes to scale with the number of clones you have. Like Illusionary Counter inflicting an additional stack of Torment per clone on the field. Confusing Images could inflict Cripple to enemies with Torment on them. (0.5s per pulse).

I also want to see Malicious Scepter increase the potency of Compounding Power (The Illusions trait) to 3% per stack and 50 Condition Damage per stack. Remove the cooldown reduction though.

You have an idealized understanding of Mirage.
But there is always a distance between reality and ideal.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Loic.9657

[Lightsbane.9012]

it'd be nice if scepter 3 actually did power damage again.  miss my vanilla mesmer build.

[chimera.3854]

On 1/26/2023 at 9:54 PM, Lightsbane.9012 said:

it'd be nice if scepter 3 actually did power damage again.  miss my vanilla mesmer build.

It does?

[Lightsbane.9012]

6 hours ago, chimera.3854 said:

It does?

it did. quite a lot in fact.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

17 hours ago, chimera.3854 said:

It does?

12s cd, 2.25s channel for some 3.5k damage is very forgettable tbh

[Gambit.9501]

If you want sustain on scepter, just slot Signet of the Ether.  You gain a little bit of healing every time you summon an illusion, and scepter is the best weapon for consistently generating illusions frequently, as per its 3rd auto and Counterspell (skill 2).

Edited February 16, 2023 by Gambit.9501

[Jables.4659]

On 1/26/2023 at 3:54 PM, Lightsbane.9012 said:

it'd be nice if scepter 3 actually did power damage again.  miss my vanilla mesmer build.

This.