Dragon's Tooth is a problem

[pukish.5784]

water hammer 4 heals like leap of faith level(1k per hit) then Im happy with current ele.😁

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:50 PM, Grimjack.8130 said:

reflected projectiles cant be reflected again

no, projectiles can be reflected twice, which means they would in fact go back and fourth and hit anyways

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 12/31/2022 at 11:15 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I think he means to los altogether leaving just the dragon's tooth to dodge. This is all under the assumption that there's something to los behind thats immediately by you and that you're faster than superspeed.

Yeah, I play chrono with Time Catches Up and even with superspeed the clones can't catch up with a FA ele, I genuinely have no idea how I'm supposed to LoS that thing.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Grimjack.8130]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

no, projectiles can be reflected twice, which means they would in fact go back and fourth and hit anyways

feel free to prove it! 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:40 PM, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

With berserkers amulet and unrealistic glass traits I can hit a max of 4K crit on the final hit of the auto chain on light golem. Average is going to be closer to 3K.

Them is rookie numbers on the light golem. I've gotten just shy of 9k on the light golem on the final hit:

 

https://imgur.com/a/EuQodon
 

[Zex Anthon.8673]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Them is rookie numbers on the light golem. I've gotten just shy of 9k on the light golem on the final hit:

 

https://imgur.com/a/EuQodon
 

did you stack 25 might?

[cyberzombie.7348]

I never understood why a skill that damaging got turned into a fire-and-forget. Anyone that played scepter ele long enough knew to treat it as a follow up skill after landing a hard cc or immobile, similar to warrior's 100 blades. Plus the free cast made it an intuitive blast finisher.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

18 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

did you stack 25 might?

Nothing beyond AA'ing within Reaper Shroud from traits.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Nothing beyond AA'ing within Reaper Shroud from traits.

which means your running spite, so your crit chance wasn't 100%

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

36 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

which means your running spite, so your crit chance wasn't 100%

That's besides the point. You can still build it with a high crit chance though. You were claiming that you were hitting 4k tops on a crit, which is low for the RS AA chain and something that would would have if you never picked damage modifier traits. Grant it, to hit the top end numbers requires a Meme tier damage build, but some people like those kinds of builds.

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

I never understood why a skill that damaging got turned into a fire-and-forget. Anyone that played scepter ele long enough knew to treat it as a follow up skill after landing a hard cc or immobile, similar to warrior's 100 blades. Plus the free cast made it an intuitive blast finisher.

Can you imagine 100 blades being turned into a skill like unrelenting assault but with no change to its damage? 

If the balance lead was a warrior main, then maybe...

[Zex Anthon.8673]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That's besides the point. You can still build it with a high crit chance though. You were claiming that you were hitting 4k tops on a crit, which is low for the RS AA chain and something that would would have if you never picked damage modifier traits. Grant it, to hit the top end numbers requires a Meme tier damage build, but some people like those kinds of builds.

cause i specced for 100% crit chance to get consistent numbers. by taking spite you may hit up to 9K crits, but the average will be much lower. To hit those numbers also relies on inconsistent conditions (i.e. no boons, lots of might, lots of vuln, below 50% hp)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

cause i specced for 100% crit chance to get consistent numbers. by taking spite you may hit up to 9K crits, but the average will be much lower. To hit those numbers also relies on inconsistent conditions (i.e. no boons, lots of might, lots of vuln, below 50% hp)

Yes, that is what Spite is for. Glad we can all agree that 4k Life Reaps is a low compared to what a build that focuses on damage can do.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

13 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yes, that is what Spite is for. Glad we can all agree that 4k Life Reaps is a low compared to what a build that focuses on damage can do.

cept you can't just look at the big numbers and assume your gonna hit that all the time. You are ignoring all the times you hit 1-3K with no crits. The point is grimjack was comparing Dragon's Tooth to reaper auto claiming that you hit 5K crits with each auto. Which is entirely false.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

cept you can't just look at the big numbers and assume your gonna hit that all the time. You are ignoring all the times you hit 1-3K with no crits. The point is grimjack was comparing Dragon's Tooth to reaper auto claiming that you hit 5K crits with each auto. Which is entirely false.

And is the reverse not also true for Dragon Tooth?

[Grimjack.8130]

17 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

cept you can't just look at the big numbers and assume your gonna hit that all the time. You are ignoring all the times you hit 1-3K with no crits. The point is grimjack was comparing Dragon's Tooth to reaper auto claiming that you hit 5K crits with each auto. Which is entirely false.

i am not comparing dragons tooth to shroud 1, you had a mindboggling terrible point of "ele now has too many skills to dodge" meanwhile EVERY class has too many skills to dodge, thats how its supposed to be, reaper autos are a part of that as a reaper and you said ele was the outlier here. its sad now that ele finally has more than 2 good offensive skills on a kit, cause for all these years no one had to pay attention because you only had 2 good skills like pyro or pri stance and it was the most avoidable thing ever people just expect that from ele now!

never once said dtooth wasnt overperforming btw, could get a 50% damage reduc

Edited January 2, 2023 by Grimjack.8130

[Zex Anthon.8673]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And is the reverse not also true for Dragon Tooth?

Dragon's tooth is a 900 range fire and forget skill with a 2.0 damage coefficient on a class that has top tier sustain, defensive utility, and easy access to stability. Reaper 1 is a melee range skill with a .5 - 1 damage coefficient on a class that has low mobility, very little sustain or defense, and extremely limited access to stability. This was the argument I was making if you bothered to read the rest of my original comment.

16 minutes ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

i am not comparing dragons tooth to shroud 1, you had a mindboggling terrible point of "ele now has too many skills to dodge" meanwhile EVERY class has too many skills to dodge, thats how its supposed to be, reaper autos are a part of that as a reaper and you said ele was the outlier here. its sad now that ele finally has more than 4 good offensive skills on a kit, cause for all these years no one had to pay attention because you only had 1 good skill like pyro or pri stance and it was the most avoidable thing ever people just expect that from ele now!

never once said dtooth wasnt overperforming btw, could get a 50% damage reduc

And I responded with examples of skills from other classes that you should dodge. Which have similar damage and CD to Dragon's Tooth, but also have meaningful tradeoffs/counterplay.

To which you responded, "BUT REAPER AUTO HITS FOR 5K"

[Dr Meta.3158]

I'll let you all in on a little secret. Reaper has the worst mobility of any mobile build while little stab access and no ability to activate utilities in shroud. Don't facetank shroud and you win the fight. Either CC it or move out of the way. It's that simple.

If your health is being quickly beamed down and blinded by fresh air builds coated in arcane barrier and superspeed with a giant flaming rock hovering above your head. Well, good luck. That's a much trickier situation. Chain invulnerability or something. Everyone can do that right?

[Khalisto.5780]

This is already a 4 pages nerf post, i think you gonna get your 50% cd increase and 20% dmg reduction. Thats an ok nerf if thats the only scepter nerf, an overkill if they touch anything else

[Sahne.6950]

The ammount of false informations in this Thread is astonishing.....

50% of comments show that the person writing it, hasnt touched Sceptre for a looong time.    SOOOO many things that are straight up impossible but those comments get upwards of 10 upvotes.....    

From comments like " 6 second CD" (its more than that even when traited, which you dont even do when you go power, btw.) 13 Upvotes

to comments like "They cast Dtoth and then unleash a burst so you have to dodge twice, but then you have no dodges left, so the Dtooth will hit, and you inevitably die unless you have 3 dodges" ( 2 dodgerolls cover more time than the Dtooth takes to land, if you see that Dtooth has been cast and then braindead dodge twice, you will avoid the burst AND the Dtooth no matter what you do....) 13 Upvotes

"Dtooth hits for 9k".... yeah.... when you go berserker/scholar/Freshair......  the ele will have 11,3k hp and literally 0 Cleanse.... Are we really complaining about Glasscannons being Glascannons?   Shattermesmer? anyone?   Dont even get me started on ele having a wh00ping 52% critchance with this setup.🙄

"They just made it follow the target without adjusting damage or Cooldown....  (Nov,29: *Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP and WvW.*) Again... 5 Upvotes.... no one correcting him...

"The ground telegraph is doesn't give an indication when the tooth will land." "unintuitive timing" (its always the same timing... Learn the timing... you see it rise, say: OOONNEE.... and dodge.... its always 1 second.... bruh xD) 14 Upvotes....   (friendly reminder that Harbinger still has invisible Gravity well...)        "you cant tell when Dtooth will land"🤢 ohhh god.....   i am 👌 this short of writing L2P

"As an ele you can no longer guarantee the combo finisher will land on the combo field." (YES YOU CAN! just use it untargeted, it will always land right at your feet this way.) 14 UPVOTES! THIS BRAINFART! FOURTEEN!

"i wish it was a channel and could be interrupted" ......  What if i told you its almost a 1 second channel that can indeed be interrupted....  The dTooth will slowly rise, then hold at the highest point for roughly 1 sec and then drop.   Up until the point where it stops at the highest point, you can cc the Ele and the Dtooth will completly disappear and go on the full 8 Second Cooldown.   What if i told you that currently almost every Sceptre skill is bugged and will go on FullCD if you interrupt it.... Mindblowing i know....

Just so many little thing being straight up impossible/wrong, but still receiving positive feedback.... If that doesnt testify a void of knowledge and bias... i dont know what does.

I think everyone has forgotten that Hammercatalyst is still alot stronger than any Elebuild with sceptre....

But yeah... lets nerf a weapon that hasnt made its way into the meta at all, because you cant kill one of the top 5 eles in FFA, that is on a dedicated 1v1 Build....  Holy moly XD

Dont get me wrong... Dtooth is strong, but the ammount of false information and bias in this thread is mindblowing. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Dragon's tooth is a 900 range fire and forget skill with a 2.0 damage coefficient on a class that has top tier sustain, defensive utility, and easy access to stability. Reaper 1 is a melee range skill with a .5 - 1 damage coefficient on a class that has low mobility, very little sustain or defense, and extremely limited access to stability. This was the argument I was making if you bothered to read the rest of my original comment.

You're overlooking the fact that RS brings defense, mobility, and stability with it. 

10 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

And I responded with examples of skills from other classes that you should dodge. Which have similar damage and CD to Dragon's Tooth, but also have meaningful tradeoffs/counterplay.

To which you responded, "BUT REAPER AUTO HITS FOR 5K"

5k is still rookie numbers, I said shy of 9k. At least quote me right. You're forgetting the tradeoff on using Dragon's Tooth yourself, that the ele can't be in water or earth when using it, so they cannot access their sustain while using it back to back. Dodge the Tooth and pressure the ele to force them out of fire attunement.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The ammount of false informations in this Thread is astonishing.....

50% of comments show that the person writing it, hasnt touched Sceptre for a looong time.    SOOOO many things that are straight up impossible but those comments get upwards of 10 upvotes.....    

From comments like " 6 second CD" (its more than that even when traited, which you dont even do when you go power, btw.) 13 Upvotes

to comments like "They cast Dtoth and then unleash a burst so you have to dodge twice, but then you have no dodges left, so the Dtooth will hit, and you inevitably die unless you have 3 dodges" ( 2 dodgerolls cover more time than the Dtooth takes to land, if you see that Dtooth has been cast and then braindead dodge twice, you will avoid the burst AND the Dtooth no matter what you do....) 13 Upvotes

"Dtooth hits for 9k".... yeah.... when you go berserker/scholar/Freshair......  the ele will have 11,3k hp and literally 0 Cleanse.... Are we really complaining about Glasscannons being Glascannons?   Shattermesmer? anyone?   Dont even get me started on ele having a wh00ping 52% critchance with this setup.🙄

"They just made it follow the target without adjusting damage or Cooldown....  (Nov,29: *Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP and WvW.*) Again... 5 Upvotes.... no one correcting him...

"The ground telegraph is doesn't give an indication when the tooth will land." "unintuitive timing" (its always the same timing... Learn the timing... you see it rise, say: OOONNEE.... and dodge.... its always 1 second.... bruh xD) 14 Upvotes....   (friendly reminder that Harbinger still has invisible Gravity well...)        "you cant tell when Dtooth will land"🤢 ohhh god.....   i am 👌 this short of writing L2P

"As an ele you can no longer guarantee the combo finisher will land on the combo field." (YES YOU CAN! just use it untargeted, it will always land right at your feet this way.) 14 UPVOTES! THIS BRAINFART! FOURTEEN!

"i wish it was a channel and could be interrupted" ......  What if i told you its almost a 1 second channel that can indeed be interrupted....  The dTooth will slowly rise, then hold at the highest point for roughly 1 sec and then drop.   Up until the point where it stops at the highest point, you can cc the Ele and the Dtooth will completly disappear and go on the full 8 Second Cooldown.   What if i told you that currently almost every Sceptre skill is bugged and will go on FullCD if you interrupt it.... Mindblowing i know....

Just so many little thing being straight up impossible/wrong, but still receiving positive feedback.... If that doesnt testify a void of knowledge and bias... i dont know what does.

I think everyone has forgotten that Hammercatalyst is still alot stronger than any Elebuild with sceptre....

But yeah... lets nerf a weapon that hasnt made its way into the meta at all, because you cant kill one of the top 5 eles in FFA, that is on a dedicated 1v1 Build....  Holy moly XD

Dont get me wrong... Dtooth is strong, but the ammount of false information and bias in this thread is mindblowing. 

I've said this in regards to Warrior Defense+Hammer, it's been bad for so long that now it is buffed we're seeing people who've forgotten how to play against them and are QQing on the forums rather than learn or change their builds.

This thread is a lesson in:

1. L2P
2. Just Dodge
3. Change your build

[Zex Anthon.8673]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

5k is still rookie numbers, I said shy of 9k. At least quote me right. You're forgetting the tradeoff on using Dragon's Tooth yourself, that the ele can't be in water or earth when using it, so they cannot access their sustain while using it back to back. Dodge the Tooth and pressure the ele to force them out of fire attunement.

I wasn't quoting you. Please work on your reading comprehension.

[Sahne.6950]

20 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I've said this in regards to Warrior Defense+Hammer, it's been bad for so long that now it is buffed we're seeing people who've forgotten how to play against them and are QQing on the forums rather than learn or change their builds.

This thread is a lesson in:

1. L2P
2. Just Dodge
3. Change your build

When people said, they cant time the dodge right... it became clear as day what the real problem at hand is here xD

i also liked the part: I wish you could interrupt the Dragonstooth.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[FrigginManatees.1268]

On 12/31/2022 at 1:34 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Tested now, doesn't work. Once the dragon tooth is out, it's out, no LoS will work.

I mean the rest of their kit. You still have to dodge dragon's tooth, but the point is to not have your hitbox visible to them 100% of the time.

On 12/31/2022 at 2:15 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I think he means to los altogether leaving just the dragon's tooth to dodge. This is all under the assumption that there's something to los behind thats immediately by you and that you're faster than superspeed.

This is what I'm saying. You still have to dodge after you LoS dragon's tooth, but the rest of it you want to force them into poor positioning. Usually a big, big part of survival as a fresh air scepter ele is to keep as much spacing as possible - you see a lot of about-face and superspeed utilization from them to achieve this.