Need help dodging dragons tooth

[solemn.9670]

Hello, I represent the Company of Full Celestial Harbingers, Mechanists, Virtuosos, Willbenders, basically everything that isn't elementalist etc etc. I come to you today with the most curious of questions!

How do I am dodge dragon tooth?!

How does do I dodge the dragon teeth?

Skill says it takes a few second and then drops...which makes it sound like I could, in theory, just wait a few seconds, and then dodge it right?

But actually I'm terrible at game and this is very difficult. Anet pls nerf dragon teeth I don't know.how dodge very difficult how do I do???? Dragon teeth expect me to dodge?

I not even have dodge keybound

Who dodge? I also have no blocks or invulns, no protection boon or barrier, no cleanses either 😕

somehow dragon teeth's still is killings me? How can be, I try so hard??? I got so far?? But in the end, I still get dragon teethed. 

[Nash.2681]

Not even remotely funny, I'm sure you can do better. 2/10, wouldn't read again.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I think if we're being honest this skill needs a cooldown increase if it's going to force a dodge roll every time.  

[Infusion.7149]

Unlike Nash I give you 10/10  for trolling post. 😛

Unfortunately, I still expect dragon's tooth damage to be hit in competitive modes though. This is more or less inevitable. Why? Statistically because it only had ~10% damage cut in competitive modes in 2020 when most skills had ~25% or 30%, to sometimes as high as 40% reductions. Upping the cooldown would mean you burst less but you better time your burst properly but it seems people are having issues with the damage.

There's been massive exaggeration on the part of some people however, and I feel if an elementalist is full glass with full glass traits it should deal at least 6-7K even though it isn't projectile and subject to projectile mitigations. A comparable other damage class with projectiles will have at least 5K more health for example on an axe or longbow untamed ranger (ranged) , power virtuoso (ranged but projectile memes), any power chrono or mesmer with greatsword burst on phantasmal berserker (keep in mind Berserker uses 2877 midpoint weapon strength and not 1K of scepter),  or  grenade holosmith (also ranged).

[Ragnarox.9601]

Actually as elementalist I see everyone and their mother using scepter now, and yes this dragons tooth need to go away, its annoying and it should be reverted into aoe ground again. 

[Stallic.2397]

If you can't dodge it, you block it. Every class has a block nowadays on low CD

 

Complaining about forcing a dodge is quite silly. With all the runes, sigils, and traits that grant vigor and energy regeneration, you would think dodging would be second nature. 

 

People dodge just to move faster, yet dodging a f'n meteor seems too impossible for players. /sigh 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Stallic.2397

[solemn.9670]

10 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

Not even remotely funny, I'm sure you can do better. 2/10, wouldn't read again.

I, too, sit in the corner of a party and say "hmm... this band isn't up to my exquisite tastes. Try again next time, kid. Maybe some day you be as cool as I am".

I will delete the game now since clearly this lady killer has ruined me

[Nash.2681]

4 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

I, too, sit in the corner of a party and say "hmm... this band isn't up to my exquisite tastes. Try again next time, kid. Maybe some day you be as cool as I am".

I will delete the game now since clearly this lady killer has ruined me

Ok, whatever, though I don't see what taste got to do with it. Maybe next time when you hit the stage do it with unbroken instruments and sing in a language you mastered. I mean, if I'd try to hit a stage singing about ending wars and saving the world but do so in spanish (which I definetly don't speak fluently) while being drunk and using a dead racoon as a guitar substitute, I definetly wouldn't be surprised being hit by tomatoes or worse, even if my message would be spot on.🤷‍♂️

But since you gonna delete the game anyway.... can I have your stuff? 

[AliamRationem.5172]

12 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

If you can't dodge it, you block it. Every class has a block nowadays on low CD

 

Complaining about forcing a dodge is quite silly. With all the runes, sigils, and traits that grant vigor and energy regeneration, you would think dodging would be second nature. 

 

People dodge just to move faster, yet dodging a f'n meteor seems too impossible for players. /sigh 

 

Who would have thought changing a powerful skill like this from more or less requiring CC to setup to landing automatically might require some other adjustments?  But shhhh! Don't talk about it!  Just act like people are crazy when they point out the obvious and maybe the devs won't notice that scepter ele is overperforming and this skill is a big part of it.

[solemn.9670]

4 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

Ok, whatever, though I don't see what taste got to do with it. Maybe next time when you hit the stage do it with unbroken instruments and sing in a language you mastered. I mean, if I'd try to hit a stage singing about ending wars and saving the world but do so in spanish (which I definetly don't speak fluently) while being drunk and using a dead racoon as a guitar substitute, I definetly wouldn't be surprised being hit by tomatoes or worse, even if my message would be spot on.🤷‍♂️

But since you gonna delete the game anyway.... can I have your stuff? 

I am actually a very good electric guitar player, but if this thread was a song it would be as you described: dead racoons as instrument substitutes.

It was intentional but not for everyone I suppose xd

I just find it laughable that people are actually dying to dragons tooth. When you "are forced" to dodge it, you also dodge whatever else the ele is casting at you in those frames, and the ele has every reason to capitalize on the dmg potential of the tooth actually hitting you by adding more casts into the combo. Seems like a no brainer and not an issue to anyone who can count to 3 imo

 

[solemn.9670]

35 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Who would have thought changing a powerful skill like this from more or less requiring CC to setup to landing automatically might require some other adjustments?  But shhhh! Don't talk about it!  Just act like people are crazy when they point out the obvious and maybe the devs won't notice that scepter ele is overperforming and this skill is a big part of it.

Ok sure if you think it needs a little tune up that's fine, can we also tune up rev sword 3?

Or are we just mad that once again ele now gets some of the same toys that every other class has had for years.

Calling scepter overtuned is a bit like the "NOT LIKE THAT" meme:

Nerf dragons tooth*

Balance enthusiasts: yes 👏

Nerf rev sword 3*

Balance enthusiasts: NOT LIKE THAT

xd

[Ragnarox.9601]

3 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Ok sure if you think it needs a little tune up that's fine, can we also tune up rev sword 3?

Or are we just mad that once again ele now gets some of the same toys that every other class has had for years.

Calling scepter overtuned is a bit like the "NOT LIKE THAT" meme:

Nerf dragons tooth*

Balance enthusiasts: yes 👏

Nerf rev sword 3*

Balance enthusiasts: NOT LIKE THAT

xd

Rev sword you know when to dodge, this dragon tooth you dont except you count seconds while attacking and defending at the same time, its lazy overpowered spell now and it should be nerfed hard or reverted in next balance patch.

[soulknight.9620]

I call for a smokescale nerf along with dragons tooth!

[solemn.9670]

6 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

Rev sword you know when to dodge, this dragon tooth you dont except you count seconds while attacking and defending at the same time, its lazy overpowered spell now and it should be nerfed hard or reverted in next balance patch.

...What? What did I just read? Is this a troll?

Have you ... used ... rev sword 3 before? Have you had someone use rev sword 3 on you before?

X D

Rev sword 3 cannot be fully dodged unless you use two dodges chained together so enjoy wasting all of your endurance or folding to a skill that does twice as much damage as dragons  tooth and is more difficult to dodge and negates damage to the rev while they're casting it

You seriously can't count to 3? Just count to 3 to dodge dragons tooth. Or be forced to waste utilities/two dodges to avoid rev sword 3 which is also on a relatively short cooldown and is overall just a better skill.

And you've ended this enlightening comment with "should be nerfed hard or reverted in next balance patch" this is pure copium my guy. Talking out of your butt. LOL

[Kodama.6453]

12 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Or are we just mad that once again ele now gets some of the same toys that every other class has had for years.

Name one single skill with these parameters in PvP:

• ranged
• AoE
• 8 seconds cooldown (untraited, traited even less)
• 10 seconds burn
• 2,0 power coefficient
• ignores LoS
• ignores projectile hate
• tracks, therefore can't get sidestepped

I dare you to find a single ability from another class which can match that. Hint: there isn't any.
The skill was just allowed to be that powerful because being delayed and ground targeted made it really easy to avoid by simply sidestepping (no defensive cooldowns required).

With the change to make it track, the damage on such a low cooldown and all the other benefits I listed is no longer justified. It either needs the damage nerfed or the tracking reverted.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[solemn.9670]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Name one single skill with these parameters in PvP:

• ranged
• AoE
• 8 seconds cooldown (untraited, traited even less)
• 10 seconds burn
• 2,0 power coefficient
• ignores LoS
• ignores projectile hate
• tracks, therefore can't get sidestepped

I dare you to find a single ability from another class which can match that. Hint: there isn't any.
The skill was just allowed to be that powerful because being delayed and ground targeted made it really easy to avoid by simply sidestepping (no defensive cooldowns required).

With the change to make it track, the damage on such a low cooldown and all the other benefits I listed is no longer justified. It either needs the damage nerfed or the tracking reverted.

Ranged - rev sword 3 is ranged.

AOE - Rev sword 3 is aoe.

12 Second cooldown for a 1.5s evade.

5 hits at 0.7 power coefficient which is going to do more damage than DT almost every single time, by a lot, especially considering the builds revs use.

I don't think DT even does ignore LOS anymore but if it does I imagine rev sword 3 is the same considering it shadowsteps you to the target.

Ignores projectile hate? Yeah so does a melee attack, rev sword 3.

Tracks the target - rev sword 3 also tracks the target, even if you lightning flash away from the attacking revenant to avoid it, it automatically re-shadowsteps back to you and tracks you.

Thanks for making this easy for me! You dared me to find "a single ability from another class which can match that" and go figure, it was the same skill I've already mentioned in this thread several times.

It's almost as if you can't be bothered to read, or, is it that you're........ mad that ele gets the same toys that everyone else does now and this is just one example of it?

If you want it nerfed, that's fine.

Nerf everything else that's broken with it.

Or is it only bad when ele is good?

This is just like watching a political debate or news media ... "It's okay when my side does it, but when the OTHER side does it, it's BAD!!" yeah no.

Edited December 31, 2022 by solemn.9670

[Arheundel.6451]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Name one single skill with these parameters in PvP:

• ranged
• AoE
• 8 seconds cooldown (untraited, traited even less)
• 10 seconds burn
• 2,0 power coefficient
• ignores LoS
• ignores projectile hate
• tracks, therefore can't get sidestepped

I dare you to find a single ability from another class which can match that. Hint: there isn't any.
The skill was just allowed to be that powerful because being delayed and ground targeted made it really easy to avoid by simply sidestepping (no defensive cooldowns required).

With the change to make it track, the damage on such a low cooldown and all the other benefits I listed is no longer justified. It either needs the damage nerfed or the tracking reverted.

Hyperboles and false rhetoric will only make you even madder, they won't revert the tracking because rightfully so after a decade, Anet wants you lot to finally fear a scepter ele and not laughing at it. All professions have high dmg skills on similar CD even if under different conditions and ranged too so...they may reduce dmg but never that much to allow others to just ignore a scepter ele....deal...with..it

[Dr Meta.3158]

Hyperbole and willful blindness aside, dragon's tooth will most likely go under the same corrections that seven arrow did.

For those of you who weren't around, don't remember, or don't pay attention, the seven arrow skill from Renegade's shortbow is a similar case. It used to be a skill where you had to pick a spot as a focal point to shoot all seven arrows at once. This was a baffling design decision as there was no way you were going to reliably hit anything with it outside of PVE. The "tradeoff" was that it did a massive amount of damage if you somehow managed to hit with all seven arrows with a low cooldown of seven seconds and low energy cost of seven that also gave seven seconds of seven torment (they went with memes over functionality, obviously).

After many years of renegade being an absolutely poor choice for pvp for anyone but the most skilled of players. Then renegade started getting some buffs including a small rework of shortbow which included making seven arrow lock onto your target. Then thing is, they never adjusted the damage, energy cost, or cooldown of seven arrow. So now you had an easily spammable, high damage skill that had to be dodged each time or you died coming from a class with permanent access to alacrity. This was in combination with lots of CC, projectile blocks, weakness, boon spam and continous other projectiles flying at you in addition to this one major oversight. This lead to renegade going from a bad pick to one of the most oppressive classes in the history of pvp.

Thereafter not only renegade was heavily nerfed back into being a bad pick for pvp but the rune of speed was nerfed as well causing incidental damage to other unrelated builds of other classes. This overall killed build diversity and all stemming from not only not thinking about balance changes being made but also taking so long to fix the mistake that culminated to one of the many permanent drops in population to spvp because of mishandling by arenanet.

Does this all sound familiar? The phrase, "Those who fail to fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" is one of the most common phrases for a reason. As per usual I feel bad for the elementalist and warrior mains. Its why I usually dread reworks. You get your time in the sun as the next massive problem in balance in pvp, desperately try to hold onto power for dear life as everyone points out the massive fault in balance, then finally lament as your class/build is subsequently destroyed and most likely never returning to viability again. 

Anyway, carry on this pointless conversation. You all know what's coming and again, I'm sorry for the suffering elementalist and warrior is causing you all now and I'm sorry for what will happen to elementalist and warrior in the near future.

[Zyreva.1078]

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Ranged - rev sword 3 is ranged.

Half the range of DT.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

AOE - Rev sword 3 is aoe.

Not really. Sure it can hit multiple targets, but then the dmg is divided among them, because each hit is single target, which makes it very inefficient as aoe skill. The more targets (including pets, clones, ...) the worse the skill becomes.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

12 Second cooldown for a 1.5s evade.

15s cd. Without evade the skill would be pure suicide and it's not like evades with that cd are anything out of the ordinary.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

5 hits at 0.7 power coefficient

5x 0,38 coefficient, so 1,9 in total, delivered over a period of 1,5s instead of all at once.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

I don't think DT even does ignore LOS anymore but if it does I imagine rev sword 3 is the same considering it shadowsteps you to the target.

Terrain can cause the skill to bug out and not do anything while going on full cd.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Tracks the target - rev sword 3 also tracks the target, even if you lightning flash away from the attacking revenant to avoid it, it automatically re-shadowsteps back to you and tracks you.

Which can force the rev into a very bad position, making the skill quite risky at times.

 

Maybe try again?

Edited December 31, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Kodama.6453]

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Ranged - rev sword 3 is ranged.

Ranged attacks != gap closers, but even if we consider this equal, then rev sword 3 has half the range of dragon's tooth.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

AOE - Rev sword 3 is aoe.

Dragon's tooth applies it's entire damage in the AoE, rev sword 3 splits the hits among multiple targets if available.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

12 Second cooldown for a 1.5s evade.

15 seconds, actually. I think you are looking at the PvE version of the skill here instead of PvP.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

5 hits at 0.7 power coefficient which is going to do more damage than DT almost every single time, by a lot, especially considering the builds revs use.

5 hits at 0,38 power coefficient. Again, you are looking at the PvE version of the skill. With just one target available, so all these hits go on the same target, it still deals less damage than dragon's tooth. Which just becomes even better with more targets, while rev sword 3 gets weaker.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

I don't think DT even does ignore LOS anymore but if it does I imagine rev sword 3 is the same considering it shadowsteps you to the target.

Ignores projectile hate? Yeah so does a melee attack, rev sword 3.

Tracks the target - rev sword 3 also tracks the target, even if you lightning flash away from the attacking revenant to avoid it, it automatically re-shadowsteps back to you and tracks you.

These are true.

7 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Thanks for making this easy for me! You dared me to find "a single ability from another class which can match that" and go figure, it was the same skill I've already mentioned in this thread several times.

Sorry, but no, you failed miserably. Try again and this time, please make sure that you are actually looking at the PvP version of the skill, not the PvE version. Seems that difference is confusing you alot.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[solemn.9670]

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Half the range of DT.

Not really. Sure it can hit multiple targets, but then the dmg is divided among them, because each hit is single target, which makes it very inefficient as aoe skill. The more targets (including pets, clones, ...) the worse the skill becomes.

15s cd. Without evade the skill would be pure suicide and it's not like evades with that cd are anything out of the ordinary.

5x 0,38 coefficient, so 1,9 in total, delivered over a period of 1,5s instead of all at once.

Terrain can cause the skill to bug out and not do anything while going on full cd.

Which can force the rev into a very bad position, making the skill quite risky at times.

 

Maybe try again?

I have seen a revenant track me over 1200 range after using a mobility skill followed by lightning flash. Half the range of DT? I'll have what you're smoking. Multiple shadowsteps = more range.

It's 5 target aoe, DT usually doesn't hit 5 multiple targets either while rev sword 3 actively tracks multiple targets and hits them in a wider radius. I'm sorry but how is this an L for me or a W for you? What is your point? They're both aoes and rev sword 3 is objectively better at being one.

You are correct about the cooldown and power coefficients as I forgot to select the WvW option on the wiki my bad. It still does an insane amount of damage compared to the low risk of using this skill and if you don't agree then I don't believe that you've ever played WvW a day in your life.

So, is using dragon's tooth pure suicide without using an evade too by the same logic? Why doesn't DT get an evade if rev just gets a free evade while doing more damage. Why doesn't every skill get to evade? What is the point you're making here other than "I don't like the fact that you made me look silly".

You basically said "um ackshually this skill is like, really bad even though it's really good, so uhh, try again" as if that was some kind of W for you.

You have an infinite number of tries, so don't quit on me now! Maybe try again?

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Ranged attacks != gap closers, but even if we consider this equal, then rev sword 3 has half the range of dragon's tooth.

Sorry, but no, you failed miserably. Try again and this time, please make sure that you are actually looking at the PvP version of the skill, not the PvE version. Seems that difference is confusing you alot.

Refer to above. This is not a W just because I missed  power coefficient and CD values which are ultimately meaningless in the face of the fact that it's still going to do more damage than DT and no elementalist actually camps fire attunement to use it every 6 seconds.

You seem reeeeally keen to make me look bad here, which says a lot about your credibility. I imagine you would behave the same if we were talking about politics. In fact, I think you're confusing this forum with twitter.

Anyway enjoy this gem I've created for you

I'm sorry that you have a vested interest in me being wrong here, you can cry if you wish but it's really not necessary!

6 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

You get your time in the sun as the next massive problem in balance in pvp, desperately try to hold onto power for dear life as everyone points out the massive fault in balance, then finally lament as your class/build is subsequently destroyed and most likely never returning to viability again. 

Anyway, carry on this pointless conversation. You all know what's coming and again, I'm sorry for the suffering elementalist and warrior is causing you all now and I'm sorry for what will happen to elementalist and warrior in the near future.

Yes, accurate. That's why I'm ok with it being nerfed. As long as everything else that is stupid gets nerfed as well.

Edited December 31, 2022 by solemn.9670

[Ragnarox.9601]

15 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

 

You seriously can't count to 3?

I lost you with this, with everything happening in fights I need to count to 3, are you serious? really are you serious right now?

You know its op and it will be nerfed. 

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, solemn.9670 said:

I have seen a revenant track me over 1200 range after using a mobility skill followed by lightning flash. Half the range of DT? I'll have what you're smoking. Multiple shadowsteps = more range.

Uh, both skills track once cast, but in order to be able to cast the skill on a target, revs needs to get much closer and the rev will also inevitably end up in melee range after the fact, whether the revs wants to be there or not.

1 hour ago, solemn.9670 said:

It's 5 target aoe, DT usually doesn't hit 5 multiple targets either while rev sword 3 actively tracks multiple targets and hits them in a wider radius. I'm sorry but how is this an L for me or a W for you? What is your point? They're both aoes and rev sword 3 is objectively better at being one.

Utter nonsense. Each hit of UA is single target. Just because individual hits can hit different targets doesn't make the skill aoe, let alone a good one. It's like saying untraited RF (or any single target multihit channel) is aoe, because it will hit different players if someone else gets in the way. Real aoe skills will hit each target for full dmg and therefore become more effective with more targets present, instead of less effective.

1 hour ago, solemn.9670 said:

So, is using dragon's tooth pure suicide without using an evade too by the same logic?

Didn't know casting DT causes you to lose control over your char ...

So far i did not make any statements whether i think the discussed skills are (too) strong or weak. I was just providing numerical facts.

But i'll say this: Claiming UA is op nowadays is questionable in itself, but it becomes even more of a joke when it comes from someone who mains the class that has the best counter to said skill. And no, i don't play rev.

Edited December 31, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Jski.6180]

Flank the ele. After the "fix" for line of sight fire scpter (realty most scpter skills) are very bad at hitting to the side some what like ranger (you can as an ele let your chater turn on its own to land skills but you cant moving and do that at the same time. You can simply overwhelm an ele using scepter by getting close and staying just to there left or right or even behind them.

There a number of skills that work like dragon tooth that have no tell or even delay you simply "see" dragon tooth so it seems worth then it is.

[Zyreva.1078]

31 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Flank the ele. After the "fix" for line of sight fire scpter (realty most scpter skills) are very bad at hitting to the side some what like ranger (you can as an ele let your chater turn on its own to land skills but you cant moving and do that at the same time.

All scepter skills except water 3 and auto attacks can be cast on targets behind or to the side.