Should ArenaNet patch the Leviathan farm, in order to make fishing profitable again?

[Kairi.2894]

I personally believe that they should. One of the main purposes of fishing is to acquire the Chunk of Ancient Ambergris from Legendary fish.

Due to this farm though, the price has plummeted and made fishing not really worth the time investment it takes to make decent profit.

I have done my fair share since EoD launched, acquired the CSAMM title & Spiritwood Rod.

I love fishing. It has now been nearly a full year, and all those farming leviathan have had their chance to acquire this item for their legendary crafting, etc.

This single farm is removing an ENTIRE aspect and way of playing the game that was just added under a year ago, essentially making it pointless. There are fishers out there who want to enjoy the content while not feeling like it's a waste of time, which is currently how it feels.

Please patch out this UNINTENDED event and make it reward the chunks on a daily basis only is my request, as this is what it was intended to be from the start in my opinion.

Discuss.

 

Happy New Year and Merry Wintersday to all!

[Veprovina.4876]

No opinion on what you wrote, just a serious question... 

 

Was fishing ever meant to be profitable? Or was that just a side effect from everyone rushing Gen3 legendaries at the start of EoD.

 

New that the demand settled, the price probably settled too.

 

Not sure what that farm is, never heard of it, but I doubt it alone is affecting the price that much.

[Cyninja.2954]

27 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

 

Discuss.

 

 

You've failed to provide evidence that fishing has dropped in profitability.

I checked the current price of ambergrise just now, it was at 1g92s/1g98s with a history of being around that price and slightly above for a long period of time (in fact for the majority of its lifespan). The price decline to around 2 gold shortly after expansion release before the market settled (and I payed around 2g per for the hundreds I bought next to the 600-700 I fished myself for the entire gen3 legendaries a few months back).

As such you would have to adjust your demand to "fishing should be made more profitable". Which is a difficult claim to support at current ambergris price, given that fishing results in around 20-30g profit per hour, depending on how lucky one gets with legendary fish.

As far as rewarding, I'd much rather prefer fishing be made less dependant on gen3s, but given current value of ambergris, that's still difficult to implement.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Freya.9075]

36 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

Please patch out this UNINTENDED event and make it reward the chunks on a daily basis only is my request, as this is what it was intended to be from the start in my opinion.

How do you know it’s unintended? What if it’s intended as a way for people who does not like fishing to get ambergris? We are all different. Some like to fish, others like to farm events.  

And how do you know it’s due to the leviathan farming and not the fishing? Do you have access to data that shows how many are from each activity? Or maybe it’s simply the supply/demand working as intended? 

[yoni.7015]

I see no reason to change the Leviathan farm, it’s a good way to get Ambergris. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I don't know much about fishing, but last I checked (about a month ago) fishing was netting up to 36 gold per hour:

 

 

[Silent.6137]

20 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

Due to this farm though, the price has plummeted and made fishing not really worth the time investment it takes to make decent profit.

Although Levi Farms may affect the prices somewhat, I truly doubt they affect it really that much. The prices have settled.  Just like anything new, the initial prices will be very high. Demand was high after release as many rushed to craft the new Gen 3. The drop in prices is consistent with Pure Jade, Summoning Stones, Memory of Aurene, and other components.

Although the farms are 24/7, usually it'll be busy only 1/2 the day and even then, the farming squad are usually 1/2 to 3/4 full at best. Also, there is a limit of 10 ambergris per account per day.

However, they can certainly improve the fishing experience somehow.

20 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Not sure what that farm is, never heard of it, but I doubt it alone is affecting the price that much.

Levi farms are squads that move between Seitung and New Kaineng, depending on where the leviathan spawns. Squad members will fish and map-hop, and as soon as the Levi NPC spawn, will call out. And the rest of the squad will join that map to kill. Having a squad is fairly essential for fast killing since it requires co-ordinated depth-charges from skiffs to ger rid of its 8 stacks of thick skin (stacks regens after a few secs). Each stack will give the Levi 10% reduction in incoming damage.

19 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I don't know much about fishing, but last I checked (about a month ago) fishing was netting up to 36 gold per hour:

It can be fairly profitable as all legendary fishes are guaranteed an ambergris drop and other fish rarities also have a chance of dropping them as well. And filets can be used to purchase more ambergris. In addition, some of the junks will sell up to 1g to vendors.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Silent.6137

[Kairi.2894]

In response to all these posts...

 

Yes fishing can be profitable by the hour, yes it's possible to get 30g or more per hour.

 

While for one thing that does not even compare to other methods of earning gold in the game, it is also HIGHLY dependent upon luck, moreso than any other means.

 

You essentially have to be realing in a legendary fish every 2 to 3 minutes in order to get the ambergris required to hit that 30g per hour mark.

 

They are only obtainable from legendary fish.

 

The more important thing here is that the levi farm has removed an entire mechanic from the game, there is no reason to fish at all if you're not at least making some form of progress, aside from it being relaxing.

 

 

I know that this was not intentional because for one thing, he has a fairly long spawn timer.  The way people farm him is by abusing the map mechanic, using alts and multi-boxing clients to run 'map holder' characters in several maps at the same time, so that the squad can constantly jump to a new map with the spawn up or very close to being up.

 

I also know this was not intentional because it is the ONLY event in the game that provides a reward of such value every single time you complete it, all other quests with rewards that high are DAILY only.

[Cyninja.2954]

11 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

In response to all these posts...

 

Yes fishing can be profitable by the hour, yes it's possible to get 30g or more per hour.

Great, close thread.

11 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

 

While for one thing that does not even compare to other methods of earning gold in the game, it is also HIGHLY dependent upon luck, moreso than any other means.

True, most do not come close to 30g besides fractals and the most broken open world farms.

11 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

You essentially have to be realing in a legendary fish every 2 to 3 minutes in order to get the ambergris required to hit that 30g per hour mark.

Not true, you are not factoring for the collection rewards and the occasional direct silver loot, which too amounts to 1-2g per hour.

11 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

They are only obtainable from legendary fish.

and rare drops from exotic/ascended.

11 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

The more important thing here is that the levi farm has removed an entire mechanic from the game, there is no reason to fish at all if you're not at least making some form of progress, aside from it being relaxing.

Working as intended. Yes, you are not required to fish for ambergris. You can also farm gold and buy them. Should ambergris be removed from the TP too?

11 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

I know that this was not intentional because for one thing, he has a fairly long spawn timer.  The way people farm him is by abusing the map mechanic, using alts and multi-boxing clients to run 'map holder' characters in several maps at the same time, so that the squad can constantly jump to a new map with the spawn up or very close to being up.

 

I also know this was not intentional because it is the ONLY event in the game that provides a reward of such value every single time you complete it, all other quests with rewards that high are DAILY only.

If it wasn't intentional (and even if it originally wasn't, it might be now), this could have been changed a long time ago. I know this, well because it hasn't been changed so far.

 

Listen, you are not going to get any sympathy here when you are:

1. asking for an already high yield farm to be made even more lucrative (at minimum effort one may add)

2. at the expense of nerfing rewards in other content

3. on an item which part of the player base desires

 

Once/if ambergris drops to sub 1g50s or even 1g, there might be something to address IF the developers want the only reason to fish be ambergris.

EDIT:

oh and as far as rewards, my fishing character still has a full inventory of rare fish netting me an additional 2g per day (I have 2 gaps in daily fish by now) for over 4-5 months now since getting CSAMM.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Randulf.7614]

It’s getting people playing together which is more important than profitability

[Kairi.2894]

8 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

It’s getting people playing together which is more important than profitability

Yep, which is why I am suggesting this.

 

Wasting time developing a full fledged system for the game that you then advertise as one of the big selling points of the expansion, then having it made irrelevant by a small percentage of the player base abusing a single event.

People are more likely to play this game and stay when there are systems that keep the player engaged, rather than a broken event and abuse of multiboxing map hops

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Kairi.2894

[Kairi.2894]

11 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Great, close thread.

True, most do not come close to 30g besides fractals and the most broken open world farms.

Not true, you are not factoring for the collection rewards and the occasional direct silver loot, which too amounts to 1-2g per hour.

and rare drops from exotic/ascended.

Working as intended. Yes, you are not required to fish for ambergris. You can also farm gold and buy them. Should ambergris be removed from the TP too?

If it wasn't intentional (and even if it originally wasn't, it might be now), this could have been changed a long time ago. I know this, well because it hasn't been changed so far.

 

Listen, you are not going to get any sympathy here when you are:

1. asking for an already high yield farm to be made even more lucrative (at minimum effort one may add)

2. at the expense of nerfing rewards in other content

3. on an item which part of the player base desires

 

Once/if ambergris drops to sub 1g50s or even 1g, there might be something to address IF the developers want the only reason to fish be ambergris.

EDIT:

oh and as far as rewards, my fishing character still has a full inventory of rare fish netting me an additional 2g per day (I have 2 gaps in daily fish by now) for over 4-5 months now since getting CSAMM.

I just feel like your stuck on the topic of profitability, when the real issue is the abuse of map hopping mechanics using multi-boxing clients and alts.

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, Kairi.2894 said:

Yep, which is why I am suggesting this.

 

Wasting time developing a full fledged system for the game that you then advertise as one of the big selling points of the expansion, then having it made irrelevant by a small percentage of the player base abusing a single event.

 

 

If they are abusing the mechanic, report them and move on. The Leviathan farm didn’t make fishing obsolete, don’t you have to fish to spawn him? 

[Cyninja.2954]

5 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

I just feel like your stuck on the topic of profitability, when the real issue is the abuse of map hopping mechanics using multi-boxing clients and alts.

I am refuting your points.Your entire claim is based around the assumption that fishing is not lucrative in the current games environment. That is simply not true.

As is your demand/ask simply comes off as greedy and wanting more reward for the same effort while already being very high yield.

I even stated what I see as problematic, the entire focus on gen3 legendaries. The current reward for fishing does not need adjusting. This might change down the road.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Randulf.7614]

2 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

I just feel like your stuck on the topic of profitability, when the real issue is the abuse of map hopping mechanics using multi-boxing clients and alts.

People are focused on it because your title and op focuses fully and exclusively on profitability. It does not mention multi boxing. Not being daily means groups can keep playing continuously and not be a one shot daily. The more people in a map, the better.

The continuation of the farm means people are still able to play together in a largely empty expansion and get the item and work to their legendaries. If multi boxing is the real issue, that’s a different discussion entirely

[Kairi.2894]

6 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

If they are abusing the mechanic, report them and move on. The Leviathan farm didn’t make fishing obsolete, don’t you have to fish to spawn him? 

No you do not, his spawn is on a varying timer.

 

This is why they do the whole map hopping stuff.

[yoni.7015]

7 minutes ago, Kairi.2894 said:

No you do not, his spawn is on a varying timer.

 

This is why they do the whole map hopping stuff.

Ah okay, I thought you had to fish in order to spawn him. 
map hopping is not against the rules, right? 
I think a combination of fishing, Seitung meta and leviathan farm is the best you can do to get Ambergris. This way I crafted seven gen3 legendaries and variants without having to buy a single Ambergris. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by yoni.7015

[Silent.6137]

18 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

They are only obtainable from legendary fish.

 

18 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

and rare drops from exotic/ascended.

They can drop from certain fish of all rarities except basic although legendary are virtually guaranteed and higher grade has better chance of dropping. Ambergris from fish: 2 types of Fine and 15 Masterworks drop them. Didn't bother checking the higher grades.

18 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

I know that this was not intentional because for one thing, he has a fairly long spawn timer.  The way people farm him is by abusing the map mechanic, using alts and multi-boxing clients to run 'map holder' characters in several maps at the same time, so that the squad can constantly jump to a new map with the spawn up or very close to being up.

Have you ever tried levi farming? Using alts to look for spawns, you're still required to actively farm the leviathan. With the daily limit of 10 ambergris per account, it is less lucrative than fishing. Even if someone is willing to spend the time to use multi-accounts, the rate of getting the limit of 10 ambergris will take at least an hour, sometimes 1 1/2 hr to 2 hrs.  Yes, it takes that long depending on spawns. And no, you don't have time to bring more than one character to a levi spawn because by the time you get there, it'll be dead. Usually takes 3 minutes or less to kill.

18 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

No you do not, his spawn is on a varying timer.

Fishing helps the spawning as can be attested by lots of players who has tried the levi farming. It may be anecdotal but there certainly is a pattern as witnessed by many.

18 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

I just feel like your stuck on the topic of profitability, when the real issue is the abuse of map hopping mechanics using multi-boxing clients and alts.

When the profit in terms of gph is so low compared to fishing, why would anyone bother with abusing the system. Granted some will use alts but I truly doubt many will even bother as it's not even worth the effort. Some will just semi-afk until a spawn is called out. Most will fish to supplement the ambergris drops because of the low yield. So, why not fish instead if fishing is better for gold farming? Because for many, it is boring while farming levi can be at least a little more exciting.

17 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

Ah okay, I thought you had to fish in order to spawn him.

There's a message that says "Beware! Something dangerous has been drawn to this area due to overfishing." And from experience, it seems that fishing does help spawning. I have no concrete proof on that but as I mentioned above, many have noticed a pattern to the frequencies. If many are fishing during a fishing tournament, the chances of a spawn immediately after is very high.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Silent.6137

[Sobx.1758]

Nope, the very basis for your request is already flawed since fishing is still pretty highly profitable.

[Omega.6801]

Fishing was a mistake.

[SuavePuppy.2809]

7 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

the price has plummeted and made fishing not really worth the time investment it takes to make decent profit.

 

7 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

There are fishers out there who want to enjoy the content while not feeling like it's a waste of time, which is currently how it feels.

 

5 hours ago, Kairi.2894 said:

Yes fishing can be profitable by the hour, yes it's possible to get 30g or more per hour.

I mean...

[Farohna.6247]

There is nothing wrong with the leviathan farm, and it doesn't harm the prices.  The price of kale went down too, yet I'm not screeching that it hurt my easy farm/sell profits.   The people who needed it right then have long since acquired what they needed, moved on to other things, and other players probably will buy things more gradually.  

Personally, I enjoy hopping on a leviathan farm occasionally for adding to my ambergris stash.  Let's not take away something that actually rewards one useful thing every time it is killed, just let it be.  

[Veprovina.4876]

9 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Levi farms are squads that move between Seitung and New Kaineng, depending on where the leviathan spawns. Squad members will fish and map-hop, and as soon as the Levi NPC spawn, will call out. And the rest of the squad will join that map to kill. Having a squad is fairly essential for fast killing since it requires co-ordinated depth-charges from skiffs to ger rid of its 8 stacks of thick skin (stacks regens after a few secs). Each stack will give the Levi 10% reduction in incoming damage.

I know how the event works, forgot there's one in New Kaineng as well lol.

But how does it affect prices? You get tons of ambergis from it? Way more than you would normally?

[draxynnic.3719]

Isn't killing the leviathan basically fishing for a really big fish? Or is it whaling? Will have to pay close attention to the shape of the tail in the future.

Seriously, though, fishing Crystal Oasis is regarded as one of the most lucrative farms in the game. I don't think it's hurting. Leviathan farming may or may not be a problem, but if it is, I don't think 'it makes fishing less worthwhile' is the reason.

[Barraind.7324]

No.

 

Ambergris has held its value better than any legendary crafting material that doesn't have a fixed vendor cost.  Its within 4 silver of its price from the initial legendary craze, where both AnSS (dont make items with an abbreviation you block on your forums...) and Jade Runestones have tanked in value since that point.

 

If anything, Ambergris needs to be given the same treatment AnSS and Amalgamated Gemstones were, decoupled from fishing even further.  Something like Ambergris added to the other daily meta chests in EoD, and 5 added to the weekly 4 EoD strike reward. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Barraind.7324