The patch was a failure and went in completely wrong direction

[RedBaron.6058]

13 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Exactly, just attacking the person instead of the argument. Outnumbered doesnt care if you are on a stacked world nor does it care how many people are fighting each other, it just counts players on the map and decides. Often tough luck if you play on DBL and your world hate DBL, regardless of you winning T1 or loosing T5.

If you do not understand the intention of Outnumbered buff then is pointless to argue with you, please learn a bit more about the game. The only problem is that Outnumbered buff is worthless right now, if tweaked it can help the defending underdogs.

[Chaba.5410]

7 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

So lets say that there's been a 15v10 back and forth fight on a border for the past hour, neither side outmanned. 

Now the side with 10 people get a 50 man that come in, karma train an objective in a minute against 0 defenders and then they bugger off the border again.

Do you think its fair that the 15 people now have massive buffs fighting 10 the entire tick? Because they are "outnumbered"?

And we havent even begun talking about the third side that could make a any random side of a 30v30 guild fight "outnumbered" because there is a 50 man zerg standing AFK in spawn...

People are always so eager to latch on to a generic "dumb" map wide buff and try to slap individual player fight buffs on it, without thinking about how outnumbered actually works.

Aside from that, there will be the predictable toxic mapchat telling people to get off the map so they can get the outnumbered buff.

Some sort of "comeback mechanic" would probably be better, as was mentioned long ago as a thing that could be added to scoring on the last day of a match or something.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Xenesis.6389]

Do I really want to see outnumbered give more stats so that a small 5 man mini boon ball can rip through 10-20 easily? meh

We already have an "outnumbered stat" in the game in the form of guild claims and presence of the keep, which only works for defending since you need to own the objective, but then it's also always on even when you outnumber the attackers.

We have bloodlust and greater bloodlust,  which is very easy to obtain, it's just tedious to do and not very rewarding.

Do I really want to see scoring attached to outnumbered? no not really, as that would just inflate the scoring for that side, and since scoring affects your movement in the tiers, it wouldn't be good for a server to be lifted to ranks they don't belong in. Scoring should be left to the active effort of the players. If you don't have the players to compete then you don't belong in that tier and need to tough it out until you reach where you belong. Wvw is never going to be equal all the time, it will continue to have it's ups and downs in population even when WR comes around. (Although I could see my mind changing if certain servers continue to tank on purpose, then by all means inflate their score to keep them where they belong).

The purpose of the outnumbered buff should be to encourage players on that side to keep playing, it's not there for you to farm stuff, it's not there to make you into a god. The only real encouragement in the game for that is rewards, as apparent by the amount of people that complain about losing pips from it, complained about the new weekly rewards being too little, or rewards in wvw being too little in general. This seems to be the one and only motivator for players to play this game mode. Hence why outnumbered has been left to magic find and participation boost.

Do I think outnumbered does practically nothing at the moment? yeah, it could use a boost maybe, but not to the point where people are only ever chasing it down again for the reward and not actually helping on the map. That means I don't think pips should be attached to it, (but I also think they took that away too early without WR being done first). You want to chase down rewards then do it by active play instead.

Then there's also the option of introducing overwhelming buff (oh no here he goes again), instead of placing the outnumbered on sides that have too little, place a buff on the side that has the most on the map, which give their enemies bonuses for killing them(a bounty in a way). Encouraging the other smaller sides to gang up on them, promoting the way a three way should actually work, two weakest vs the strongest, and not two strongest snowballing the weakest. The buff rewards could be the same as outnumbered.

In the meantime they should boost the outnumbered to +100% participation, 100% magic find, 100% wxp, and maybe a chance to drop Instant reward track progress potion on kills. I'm not sure adding pips back here is a good idea or not.

 

🤷‍♂️

Edited February 2, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[RedBaron.6058]

16 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Do I really want to see outnumbered give more stats so that a small 5 man mini boon ball can rip through 10-20 easily? meh

We already have an "outnumbered stat" in the game in the form of guild claims and presence of the keep, which only works for defending since you need to own the objective, but then it's also always on even when you outnumber the attackers.

We have bloodlust and greater bloodlust,  which is very easy to obtain, it's just tedious to do and not very rewarding.

Do I really want to see scoring attached to outnumbered? no not really, as that would just inflate the scoring for that side, and since scoring affects your movement in the tiers, it wouldn't be good for a server to be lifted to ranks they don't belong in. Scoring should be left to the active effort of the players. If you don't have the players to compete then you don't belong in that tier and need to tough it out until you reach where you belong. Wvw is never going to be equal all the time, it will continue to have it's ups and downs in population even when WR comes around. (Although I could see my mind changing if certain servers continue to tank on purpose, then by all means inflate their score to keep them where they belong).

The purpose of the outnumbered buff should be to encourage players on that side to keep playing, it's not there for you to farm stuff, it's not there to make you into a god. The only real encouragement in the game for that is rewards, as apparent by the amount of people that complain about losing pips from it, complained about the new weekly rewards being too little, or rewards in wvw being too little in general. This seems to be the one and only motivator for players to play this game mode. Hence why outnumbered has been left to magic find and participation boost.

Do I think outnumbered does practically nothing at the moment? yeah, it could use a boost maybe, but not to the point where people are only ever chasing it down again for the reward and not actually helping on the map. That means I don't think pips should be attached to it, (but I also think they took that away too early without WR being done first). You want to chase down rewards then do it by active play instead.

Then there's also the option of introducing overwhelming buff (oh no here he goes again), instead of placing the outnumbered on sides that have too little, place a buff on the side that has the most on the map, which give their enemies bonuses for killing them(a bounty in a way). Encouraging the other smaller sides to gang up on them, promoting the way a three way should actually work, two weakest vs the strongest, and not two strongest snowballing the weakest. The buff rewards could be the same as outnumbered.

In the meantime they should boost the outnumbered to +100% participation, 100% magic find, 100% wxp, and maybe a chance to drop Instant reward track progress potion on kills. I'm not sure adding pips back here is a good idea or not.

 

🤷‍♂️

Please check the conditions for Outnumbered. Thanks. Anyway, what is the point of having 5 against 10 or 20 without any balance buff? You like being fed? Better to play against bots then...

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, RedBaron.6058 said:

Please check the conditions for Outnumbered. Thanks. Anyway, what is the point of having 5 against 10 or 20 without any balance buff? You like being fed? Better to play against bots then...

What do I need to check on outnumbered? I'm a dummy, explain it to the class.

 

And for the record I don't go around ganking or 20v1 people, I like even fights, I'll even take outnumbered fights depending on the group composition. Take your assumptions back to coocoo land and come up with a better argument to convince the rest of us.

 

[RedBaron.6058]

12 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

What do I need to check on outnumbered? I'm a dummy, explain it to the class.

 

And for the record I don't go around ganking or 20v1 people, I like even fights, I'll even take outnumbered fights depending on the group composition. Take your assumptions back to coocoo land and come up with a better argument to convince the rest of us.

 

Sorry, I do not waste time with dummy people like you admited.

[kash.9213]

13 minutes ago, RedBaron.6058 said:

Please check the conditions for Outnumbered. Thanks. Anyway, what is the point of having 5 against 10 or 20 without any balance buff? You like being fed? Better to play against bots then...

Most of us are playing this mode with a huge focus and attention on our builds and how they fit into a team composition. People put thought into how their builds and their teams can mitigate and counter other builds. For lack of anything else going on in WvW and being cut off from the rest of the game world, that dynamic is what almost all of us are still playing for. Having too many stat buffs that also overlap but fluctuate is already convoluted enough and it's more likely that group of five is trying to evade those larger groups, but they will stop off to jump a smaller group or solo runners and having more buffs piled on would get ridiculous. 

What we have now is mostly alright and not a huge imbalance most of the time but just like nerfing a professions resource pools instead of the actual problem because that's easier, trying to deal with population problems by padding stats more could get weird. 

[Xenesis.6389]

16 minutes ago, RedBaron.6058 said:

Sorry, I do not waste time with dummy people like you admited.

That's too bad, I left it open for a teachable moment but you just decided to throw the insult back (which btw it's ok for me to do on myself, but not you!) 🤭

Oh well guess your idea will remain bad.

🍿

[Corabelle.3254]

This man really thought giving STATS to the outnumbered buff would be a good idea. LMAO! 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Corabelle.3254

[Chaba.5410]

8 minutes ago, Corabelle.3254 said:

This man really thought giving STATS to the outnumbered buff would be a good idea. LMAO! 

I'd want stats, wouldn't you?  How fun to be overpowered!

Maybe they can call it Emboldened like in PvE Raids and you get another stack every time you die until you become this super powerful build with over 50k HP and +50% damage output.  Yay!  Your party of 5 just saved the day against the hordes and your server won't drop a tier after all!

Edited February 2, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Riba.3271]

Yep, outnumbered buff should not give stats to people. Claim buff already killed competitive duels around sm, imagine a mapwide buff.

Any system where 2 groups or players that could have decent fights might not be able to do so next day because there are some passive stats caused by surroundings or afks in spawn, is just bad design. In the end WvW should be about finding a fun timezone and then that timezone staying relatively same, not about big changes if 1 objective changes owner or 2 people decide to not log in that day.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Dahkeus.8243]

12 hours ago, Esufer.8762 said:

No worries, I'll make sure my next vid is the most "action packed" hour of dolyak escorting available on Youtube.

Nah, you're doing it wrong.  You need a title like "10 things you didn't know about WvW" and slap on a thumbnail of a big red arrow pointing at a dolyak with a picture of you doing an open-mouthed shocked facial expression. 

 

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

Re: Outnumbered  Virtually every problem with an outnumbered buff providing extra combat ability, would be solved, if it was:

1. Server wide

2. Scaled with how outnumbered the lower population team(s) are.

[cyberzombie.7348]

It's a byproduct of squads relying on no other tactic but bunching up. But also defenders not knowing how to think outside the box. There has been countless times where I had to setup ground floor acs to make the room of the tower lord a death trap. I've also managed to take down attacking siege by building ballistas/trebs either behind typical spots, or at a vantage point since everyone has tunnel vision.

Even using scorched Earth tactics is a way to break a ktrain's momentum.

[Esufer.8762]

11 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Nah, you're doing it wrong.  You need a title like "10 things you didn't know about WvW" and slap on a thumbnail of a big red arrow pointing at a dolyak with a picture of you doing an open-mouthed shocked facial expression. 

 

you realise with april the 1st rapidly approaching i may well do this

[Tryfan.1457]

I gotta say, I am hearing a lot of people on map say things like "let them have it, we'll just take it back" when an enemy group shows at a keep somewhere.

 

By that standard, this weekly achievement might actually be moving into disaster territory.

 

[Zyreva.1078]

5 hours ago, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

Re: Outnumbered  Virtually every problem with an outnumbered buff providing extra combat ability, would be solved, if it was:

1. Server wide

2. Scaled with how outnumbered the lower population team(s) are.

No, that would make it even worse.

Again, whether a world is outnumbered on a map or in total population has absolutely nothing to do with with the numbers involved in a particular fight.

Let's say, Server A and B have 50 players, server C only 25.

Now server A is PvDooring somewhere with all players and server B does the same elsewhere with 45, why should server C get combat buffs to zerg down the remaining 5 players of server B with their 25?

Edited February 3, 2023 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Bern.9613]

Bring back guard stacks;

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Applied_Strength

[RedBaron.6058]

It's amusing to read the posts of stacked server players desperately trying to maintain the current status quo of having their heavily populated WvW servers beat dead horses.

It is obvious that something decisive must be done about unbalanced WvW because, at the end of the day, even the good and honest players on stacked servers do not have any fun at all.

Even if ANet creates a system capable of balancing opposing populations in WvW, the Outnumbered buff must become relevant to compensate for temporary imbalances.

[Corabelle.3254]

8 minutes ago, RedBaron.6058 said:

It's amusing to read the posts of stacked server players desperately trying to maintain the current status quo of having their heavily populated WvW servers beat dead horses.

It is obvious that something decisive must be done about unbalanced WvW because, at the end of the day, even the good and honest players on stacked servers do not have any fun at all.

Even if ANet creates a system capable of balancing opposing populations in WvW, the Outnumbered buff must become relevant to compensate for temporary imbalances.

You're wrong

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:42 PM, RedBaron.6058 said:

So, the Outnumbered buff should be:

+25% to all stats/-25% enemy damage to own fortifications/+25% moving speed/-80% damage received while downed

Plus the existing buffs but changed as:

+100% participation/+100% Magic Find/+100% World Experience/No armor damage upon death plus a 1 gold reward per hour of being outnumbered/Being killed by the enemy will not grant War Score to the enemy but will grant War Score to the own side once per 5 min (to avoid abuses).

 

No, even as someone that likes to defend, outnumbered should not give any stat bonuses by itself. It shouldn't have had the extra pips removed in fear of pip hunters either, but no extra stats from outnumbered. Defending should be more rewarding since its often paired with a lot of down time as people have to setup defenses/renew defenses and then take extended periods out of the fight to have to repair or choose to leave a damaged structure behind. 

[Chaba.5410]

55 minutes ago, RedBaron.6058 said:

It's amusing to read the posts of stacked server players desperately trying to maintain the current status quo of having their heavily populated WvW servers beat dead horses.

It is obvious that something decisive must be done about unbalanced WvW because, at the end of the day, even the good and honest players on stacked servers do not have any fun at all.

Even if ANet creates a system capable of balancing opposing populations in WvW, the Outnumbered buff must become relevant to compensate for temporary imbalances.

Yea, if you want to be taken seriously, lay off the cynicism about those who post counter arguments to yours.  It doesn't help and just makes you look like you have no leg to stand on.

[RedBaron.6058]

It's interesting to see which servers all these Outnumbered skeptics play on...LoL

[prototypedragon.1406]

Anet could perhaps increase the damage aoes cause to larger groups of players. damage increasing starting at 15 to 20 players. The more people are huddled and stacked together increasing the damage percentage  of which the larger groups are hit  maxing at perhaps 70percent increased damage if they have a map que sized zerg stacked ( damage increased based on number of players stacked in a radius example radius being 600 about a warrior shouts distance) or in other words x number of players stand in the aoe circle starting at 15 or 20 people increases total incoming damage by 5 additional percent. There could be a visual indicator for it similar to the Warclaw movent speed buff. 15to 20 would  be stacked would take damage increase starting at 15percent and adding 5 percent increased aoe damage for each additional 5 players which could lead to zergs separating into smaller more tactical groups to avoid taking greatly increased extra damage. This also allows defenders to pressure a large enemy group by separating them in the process which with that being said would also affect the defenders  if they bunch up 2 much ,but would improve siege damage aoe capabilities of arrow carts for coverfire as a example and possibly cannons. 🤔

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

7 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

No, that would make it even worse.

Again, whether a world is outnumbered on a map or in total population has absolutely nothing to do with with the numbers involved in a particular fight.

Let's say, Server A and B have 50 players, server C only 25.

Now server A is PvDooring somewhere with all players and server B does the same elsewhere with 45, why should server C get combat buffs to zerg down the remaining 5 players of server B with their 25?

 

 

If you actually value "the game of ppt", and some sense of overall fairness, then that's exactly what should happen.