Unofficial 2/3/2023 Balance Patch Preview For Thief Discussion!

[SehferViega.8725]

11 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 This is what people did post changes… playing core thief.

 

Something to consider is how 1200 range synergies a with all teleports and ranged weapons. 600 range swipe gimps thief to a staff range making it some weird 1v1 poser, when DP daredevil could win its 1v1s already by sheer mobility alone. 
 

You want an unblock-able 600 range opener…imagine my reaction seeing derpy thief hobble up to get in 600 range to get close enough to open on me. 
 

I’ve played thief for a long time at high level and sorry but ur swipe gets dodged just like steal. Ur gonna wish u could have opened from a longer range.

 

At 900 range you get blinded against a DP, who the hell need to get closer to 600 range to open?

At 1200 range you can't blind with Black Powder and you can't interupt with Head Shot, DP Daredevil strength is to play in 900-600 range. Swipe is by far better: you can land a backstab in every block like Warding Rift, Full Counter, Shield Stance, Imperial Guard, Counterattack, Illusionary Counter, Bladeturn Requiem.. and get an Interrupt too.

 

1200 Steal is a must have only if you play SD.. 

[Zacchary.6183]

1 hour ago, SehferViega.8725 said:

 

They've made cooldowns reduction baseline, but not for Withdraw, Lesser Haste and Dagger Storm. That's a nerf of the trait.

 

 

Steal cooldown will be reduced from 30 sec to 25 seconds, so there won't be a longer cooldown.

 

 

Fair point. Thanks for pointing that out.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

56 minutes ago, SehferViega.8725 said:

 

At 900 range you get blinded against a DP, who the hell need to get closer to 600 range to open?

 

If you are running swipe, you do. That's the point... As a thief, you don't want to open within 600 range, cause you are right in front of your enemy already at that range...you might as well just have did a "/wave hello i'm here to kill u now tehe" gamer move instead. can literately use a short-bow to get rid of blocks if you have to be that close to make an opening strike.

 

The whole point of thief and opening on it, was to come to the enemy unnoticed... help kill a target, and move on to the next target as fast as possible. You walking up to me in 600 range to open with Swipe is the complete opposite of unnoticed and I can easily dodge your swipe, Deny it by standing on non-teleport spot (called kiting), or prepare other defenses for this very obvious upcoming attack...literately ruins the entire reason to "open" at all if you go and make your presence that obvious and slow to the enemy.

 

Many changes had removed Daredevil gameplay from the metagame, a lot of it's damage was reduced, endurance gain penalized, mobility restricted, initiative to skills heavily increased... It was the powerhouse of gw2 at those times and people obviously felt it was unfair that thiefs role was to keep every class in check by being a proverbial seal team 6 and there was no swipe or shortbow unblockables back then. What you have now, is a hollow shell of what thief was.

 

Don't get me wrong, a "guaranteed" 600 range Backstab through a block is nice to have...but if you are in 600 range, that's not really opening...enemy knows you're about to backstab him, so what's even the point of calling that an "opening" unless you are a bot thief that just opens with the same rotation without doing any opponent analysis. You're gonna get dodged, interrupted, blinded, area denied...there are tons of tools that screw you by being noticed by the enemy. That's why Steal's range, mobility and speed are and always will be incredibly strong even without unblockables...and it's why the class has been consistently nerfed for a decade...not cause it has unblockables. Unblockables on the class have actually been buffed over time, as the class has received more of them since launch...and in fact that's also why steal was removed from Daredevil and replaced with Swipe to begin with...because steal and daredevil was so strong they tried to "restrict" the class to it's little staff 1v1 gameplay archetype that they wanted it to be.

Edited February 4, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, SehferViega.8725 said:

 

At 900 range you get blinded against a DP, who the hell need to get closer to 600 range to open?

At 1200 range you can't blind with Black Powder and you can't interupt with Head Shot, DP Daredevil strength is to play in 900-600 range. Swipe is by far better: you can land a backstab in every block like Warding Rift, Full Counter, Shield Stance, Imperial Guard, Counterattack, Illusionary Counter, Bladeturn Requiem.. and get an Interrupt too.

 

1200 Steal is a must have only if you play SD.. 

yes u can... gotta STEAL during the animation for Headshot / Black Powder to "bring it with you"

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

• NGL, OP has a pretty bad/biased read on the patch.  Meld is insane with the new SA for what it does, especially on an ammo system.  Remove counterplay + heal + superspeed + 3 initiative + condi cleanse on the ammo system on a 45 second cooldown is actually nutty.  All it now does is remove the counter to counterplay and make people again, have to pay attention to their surroundings/opponents, not get out of jail free, just like the old SA did for so many players.  This is a completely acceptable change.

 

• Trickster change should have commanded cooldown reduction on all the tricks, not just those mentioned in the notes.  Withdraw is honestly the biggest one hurt by this change, because frankly, without Shadow Arts, there just isn't enough healing on the skill in the current state of the game.  They could have also made it a bigger heal, but I think for its primary users on Core thief, it's a pretty significant nerf.

 

• Loss of swipe is something people have been demanding for a while.  The 1200 range is strictly more valuable than the unblockable.  The real benefits to steal are the bonuses it provides the thief, which are applied irrespective of Steal actually landing.  900 range defenses and high mobility are everywhere, whereas the 1200 range makes the engage much more reliable.  If you're already in 900 and out of combat, you can just use Headshot or swap-buffer-swap A longbow AA to force Aegis out.  If an opponent blocks steal actively, you still win out on the trade since they aren't blocking something like backstab or actual major offensive skills, and if they REALLY needed to block steal, they deserve to be rewarded for blocking a skill preemptively that has no telegraph.

 

• The changes to signets are kind of demonstrating they just don't know what to do with the skill class.  In PvE, the traits are entirely about passive mook-slaying gameplay for open-world, while all of the signets' effects are active and offense-oriented except for SoA, and all of the passives are... weak, wherein none of the benefits of this trait can be reaped since players aren't really dropping.  More initiative recovery is not the move here, as given their current design, they're specifically meant to be consumed upon first engagement, and in many respects for signets like Infiltrator's Signet, are one of the primary sources of engage for the lower-mobility loadouts, and in PvE, just having ISignet+SoP passive already gives initiative per kill.  Since you can generally only afford to take one or two signets to combat, +2 initiative every ~20 seconds is pretty bad for a trait slot, especially when considering its competitors of Assassin's Fury for Open-world PvE (basically capped might) and Twin Fangs (definitively the second-best trait in the entire CS line in competitive play use/raids).

 

SoP should come back as a Stacking % damage modifier for only a few seconds for each signet used akin to Lead Attacks, and probably return as flat cooldown reduction on kill to keep it good for Open World.  This would carry a few benefits:

1. It lets it be a good Alpha-strike pattern like back when it provided might, but unlike might and fixed boons, this actually rewards the thief for stacking offensive stats rather than opting into tankier setups.
2. It keeps the Open World PvE play pattern around, allowing players to continuously reset off killing trash mobs (lots of uses of ISignet, ASignet, keeps SoS active movespeed up, lets people actually use SoM in-combat and not feel punished needing to wait until it recharges, etc.)
3. This change alone makes thief semi-viable in large-scale WvW, and moreso with Specter.  Partaking in a kill allowing resets on things like SoA and SoS means machine-gunning long-range, non-projectile blind, vuln, and weakness into enemy blobs, meaning continuous shove power, and on the flip side, continuous endurance regeneration and group condi cleanse.  Since SoP then gives stacking bonus damage for each cast, a thief allowed to get close and personal and kill in a large engagement where they're not immediately gunned down lets them ramp into major burst damage potential.

Edited February 4, 2023 by DeceiverX.8361

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

can someone elaborate on the „unblockable-nerf“

from my perspective you will always have trickery traitline in pvp/wvw anyway so bountiful theft goes off before steal hits meaning that stealing aegis is even better than just ignore it, so technically no change.

stepping into an enemy who has a channeling block active is not smart anyway and the higher range is more beneficial to get to your target, without them noticing and get the block up, in the first place.

even if putting that aside blocking the steal instead of the follow up skill is also better isnt it? you may lose the daze but therefore bs hs or cnd can hit without triggering the block.

did i miss some interaction here

Edited February 4, 2023 by Felices Bladewing.3914
grammar

[Crab Fear.8623]

13 minutes ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

can someone elaborate on the „unblockable-nerf“

from my perspective you will always have trickery traitline in pvp/wvw anyway so bountiful theft goes off before steal hits meaning that stealing aegis is even better than just ignore it, so technically no change.

stepping into an enemy who has a channeling block active is not smart anyway and the higher range is more beneficial to get to your target, without them noticing and get the block up, in the first place.

even if putting that aside blocking the steal instead of the follow up skill is also better isnt it? you may lose the daze but therefore bs hs or cnd can hit without triggering the block.

did i miss some interaction here

not all blocks are aegis.

if the block is a channel, only swipe will interupt it.

now, if the unblockable from swipe is gone, channel blocks, which anet has handed out like candy will further push thief out of making key plays.

but who care lol, basi has always been the goat thief elite

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

44 minutes ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

• NGL, OP has a pretty bad/biased read on the patch.  Meld is insane with the new SA for what it does, especially on an ammo system.  Remove counterplay + heal + superspeed + 3 initiative + condi cleanse on the ammo system on a 45 second cooldown is actually nutty.  All it now does is remove the counter to counterplay and make people again, have to pay attention to their surroundings/opponents, not get out of jail free, just like the old SA did for so many players.  This is a completely acceptable change.

 

• Trickster change should have commanded cooldown reduction on all the tricks, not just those mentioned in the notes.  Withdraw is honestly the biggest one hurt by this change, because frankly, without Shadow Arts, there just isn't enough healing on the skill in the current state of the game.  They could have also made it a bigger heal, but I think for its primary users on Core thief, it's a pretty significant nerf.

 

• Loss of swipe is something people have been demanding for a while.  The 1200 range is strictly more valuable than the unblockable.  The real benefits to steal are the bonuses it provides the thief, which are applied irrespective of Steal actually landing.  900 range defenses and high mobility are everywhere, whereas the 1200 range makes the engage much more reliable.  If you're already in 900 and out of combat, you can just use Headshot or swap-buffer-swap A longbow AA to force Aegis out.  If an opponent blocks steal actively, you still win out on the trade since they aren't blocking something like backstab or actual major offensive skills, and if they REALLY needed to block steal, they deserve to be rewarded for blocking a skill preemptively that has no telegraph.

 

• The changes to signets are kind of demonstrating they just don't know what to do with the skill class.  In PvE, the traits are entirely about passive mook-slaying gameplay for open-world, while all of the signets' effects are active and offense-oriented except for SoA, and all of the passives are... weak, wherein none of the benefits of this trait can be reaped since players aren't really dropping.  More initiative recovery is not the move here, as given their current design, they're specifically meant to be consumed upon first engagement, and in many respects for signets like Infiltrator's Signet, are one of the primary sources of engage for the lower-mobility loadouts, and in PvE, just having ISignet+SoP passive already gives initiative per kill.  Since you can generally only afford to take one or two signets to combat, +2 initiative every ~20 seconds is pretty bad for a trait slot, especially when considering its competitors of Assassin's Fury for Open-world PvE (basically capped might) and Twin Fangs (definitively the second-best trait in the entire CS line in competitive play use/raids).

 

SoP should come back as a Stacking % damage modifier for only a few seconds for each signet used akin to Lead Attacks, and probably return as flat cooldown reduction on kill to keep it good for Open World.  This would carry a few benefits:

1. It lets it be a good Alpha-strike pattern like back when it provided might, but unlike might and fixed boons, this actually rewards the thief for stacking offensive stats rather than opting into tankier setups.
2. It keeps the Open World PvE play pattern around, allowing players to continuously reset off killing trash mobs (lots of uses of ISignet, ASignet, keeps SoS active movespeed up, lets people actually use SoM in-combat and not feel punished needing to wait until it recharges, etc.)
3. This change alone makes thief semi-viable in large-scale WvW, and moreso with Specter.  Partaking in a kill allowing resets on things like SoA and SoS means machine-gunning long-range, non-projectile blind, vuln, and weakness into enemy blobs, meaning continuous shove power, and on the flip side, continuous endurance regeneration and group condi cleanse.  Since SoP then gives stacking bonus damage for each cast, a thief allowed to get close and personal and kill in a large engagement where they're not immediately gunned down lets them ramp into major burst damage potential.

Shadow meld nerf hit hard yes, however as an elite it doesnt meet ELITE just to go stealth, with or without trait synergy, It needs to qualify as an elite...like slap on an Aegis or barrier or something BASE.

You forget that Signets of Power may be removed which makes taking SoP worthless if they dont KEEP what they have currently in ADDITION to what is going to change.

[cyberzombie.7348]

6 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Signets of Power: This trait has been reworked. It now causes signet skills to grant initiative when activated.

Then wth is the point of infiltration's passive now?

6 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Caltrops: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds.

Cd reduction wont make it useful by any means, making it a free cast would make it actually viable.

 

6 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

• Roll for Initiative: Reduced cooldown from 35 seconds to 28 seconds in PvE, and from 50 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced initiative gain from 6 to 4 in PvP and WvW.

Why... just why? Its a powerful skill that's balanced with its long cd.

6 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Impairing Daggers: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 18 seconds.

Cool, but will the tracking be fixed in the process? Until then, its still just as useless beyond point blank.

 

6 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Shadow Meld: This skill no longer removes revealed in PvP and WvW.

So it'll just be a repeatable blinding powder now? If they really wanted to do something about de's stealth spam, bringing back the 10sec icd on Silent Scope would've been a good rollback.

 

Just my perspectives.

Edited February 4, 2023 by cyberzombie.7348
grammar

[MorningGlow.5376]

7 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

The issue with revealed being removed as well wasnt just defensive but also helped us chain and switch targets to Deadeye's Mark with Mercy to regain stealth Attack ability AFTER revealing ourselves...it makes no sense and was NOT thought out at all.

No offense, but i don't understand what you're saying here. Abilities that reveal were introduced as a counter to stealth. So from my perspective, giving DE (and only DE) a way of saying 'Nope' via countering the counter has always been a bit silly.

Even though i agree that shadow meld might now be too weak for an elite skill.

[DeceiverX.8361]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Shadow meld nerf hit hard yes, however as an elite it doesnt meet ELITE just to go stealth, with or without trait synergy, It needs to qualify as an elite...like slap on an Aegis or barrier or something BASE.

You forget that Signets of Power may be removed which makes taking SoP worthless if they dont KEEP what they have currently in ADDITION to what is going to change.

A lot of the power budget in Meld already is that it sits in the elite skill slot.  This lets you run stuff like Shadowstep + RFI + BP + Meld, giving the thief access to tons of utility at any given time.  Shadowstep is an objectively better skill than virtually all thief elites, yet would be OP in the elite skill spot because it'd put even less contention on the bar.

 

As for SoP, I was referencing that the current (and future) functionality is all mid-fight stuff which doesn't play nice with current Signet active effects, and that the best solution is to keep it as it is with some bonus damage modifiers for signet activation to give the utility type more synergy with the playstyle the active effects lock the thief into.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

10 hours ago, SehferViega.8725 said:

I can only see nerf for thieves in PvP / WvW:

1) Trickster won't reduce Tricks skills cooldown anymore , but Withdraw doesn't get a base cooldown reduction and Dagger Storm neither. The +1 condition removed is quite useless on a class that has no problems on condi cleaning.

 

2) Roll for Initiative will regenarete 4 initiative instead of 6.

 

3) Swipe/Steal: Daredevil will lost unblockable steal, that's a huge nerf, and one of its core mechanics: it will be a thief with just different dodges.

 

4) Shadow Meld: it won't remove Revealed anymore, becoming basically a Blinding Powder that doesn't blind. Deadeyes will play Dagger Storm or Basilisk Venom. Another core mechanics killed.
 

In the meanwhile without Shadow Arts and Trickery thieves really struggle with initiative costs and Pulmonary Impact is still a joke (and it will be even worse without unblockable Swipe).

I fully agree, again a hardcore teef nerf.

 

[Strider.7849]

Not sure I'd call the swipe to steal change on daredevil a nerf. The range reduction on swipe makes it feel clunky. There are other ways of getting around a target that is blocking.

[bluehead.9842]

shadowmeld is my only survival for fight 1-1 with ranger, 

now with this changes, is like impossible for me to fight ranger 1-1 😞 

[SehferViega.8725]

9 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

If you are running swipe, you do. That's the point... As a thief, you don't want to open within 600 range, cause you are right in front of your enemy already at that range...you might as well just have did a "/wave hello i'm here to kill u now tehe" 

 

The whole point of thief and opening on it, was to come to the enemy unnoticed... help kill a target, and move on to the next target as fast as possible. You walking up to me in 600 range to open with Swipe is the complete opposite of unnoticed and I can easily dodge your swipe, Deny it by standing on non-teleport spot (called kiting), or prepare other defenses for this very obvious upcoming attack...literately ruins the entire reason to "open" at all if you go and make your presence that obvious and slow to the enemy.

 

 

you might as well just have did a "/wave hello i'm here to kill u now tehe"  ==> that is literally what I do in WvW roaming, and It works amazing good (;

If you want to open unnoticed, there is Shadowstep: Shadowstep + Swipe = 1800 range opening, it's enough for me.

 

What it seems to me you are missing, it's the whole fight, you are just focusing on opening. After you openend form 2400-1800-1200 range, you are in close range, and you have to fight.. you can't keep 1200 distance with all the superspeed and teleports they added with EoD.

With Shadow Arts, best way to fight with DP Daredevil is to stay in 900-600 range, because the gameplay is 5-2 backstab, blind and stealth protect you and you can land backstab also without teleports.

 

How you decide to open the fight, in the current meta, it's almost irrelevant (except for Thief vs Thief and Thief vs power Reve).

 

Instant unblockable daze is amazing good if you play it with right timing and by far better in a WvW / PvP fight.

 

10 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

yes u can... gotta STEAL during the animation for Headshot / Black Powder to "bring it with you"

 

 

Of course you can Black Powder + Steal/Swipe, and Black Powder + Shadowstep too.

As I wrote, you focus on opening, not on the whole fight: what is better in the actual meta to bring home victory? IMHO unblockable swipe, but that's my opinion, based on my playstyle.

 

I also think that a Daredevil with Steal would be just a thief with better dodges, killing build diversity and reducing "space" for core thief builds.

[Doggie.3184]

15 hours ago, Nomad.4301 said:

Well of Silence: This skill has been reworked. It now dazes enemies on the initial strike, then removes conditions from allies in the area on each pulse. Gain shadow force for each condition removed. Reduced cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW.

I guess Anet missed the memo on this one because thieves don't have the luxury of using our wells as actual utilities when playing support, and using a condi-cleanse on CD instead of situationally makes it near worthless, while nerfing it big time in PvP/WvW, going to throw this one in the closet with "Well of Blood" now.

100% That, plus it's a damage nerf of 2 torment stacks if lucky, since torment on daze will happen less, and ofc less breakbar. The damage wasn't even very high but it was something when we're bored of using venoms for every single condi build. They did the same to Choking Gas a while back, I guess they forgot that they hate us pulsing daze. I think the cooldown should be a lot lower if it's not going to do anything else.

[VaryLost.7953]

I normally avoid posting on forums but I've been stewing on this all morning and need to voice my grievances.

Shadow Meld's ability to remove reveal has so many applications and it's going to greatly cripple DE without it.

 

Everyone talks about how it helps against rangers but people haven't mentioned how every player carries around Target Painters. Or the common strategy that people will equip it while on warclaw, pounce at you and then spike it right on their location. It helps with being able to rip off that reveal and get away from a gank or ambush.

 

Even with mark Shadow Meld helps remove the re-applied reveal to help with repositioning against opponents. Without the ability to remove reveal it will also lock DE out of using it's Death's Judgment against Sic Em or Tether Spellbreakers. The point is for it to stealth and stealth attack to use it's malice stacks so it can re-accumulate them. But this will mean that you'll now have to take Mercy if you're going to be dealing with Marks or Reveal.

Honestly it just feels like ANet is just trying to do away with stealth entirely. I like using it as I'm not that good at blinking. I'd rather they not remove what made Shadow Meld so helpful and return the 1sec of stealth they took from it and Silent Scope. Especially since Shadow Arts no longer extends stealth duration.

[Acemos.2856]

10 hours ago, TezPoca.7203 said:

No offense, but i don't understand what you're saying here. Abilities that reveal were introduced as a counter to stealth. So from my perspective, giving DE (and only DE) a way of saying 'Nope' via countering the counter has always been a bit silly.

Even though i agree that shadow meld might now be too weak for an elite skill.

Keep in mind that using death's judgment reveals you at the start even before the bullet leaves your rifle and hits your opponent. Shadow meld helped with death's judgement cancelling if your opponent dodged or got aegis or distort or became invincible or the myriad of ways one can block. Without the ability to remove reveal off yourself from your own death's judgment, you cannot perform another stealth attack for 3 seconds, regardless of whether it hit or not. Rather than just removing reveal from opponents, Shadow Meld had self synergy because you would use it to reset your stealth attack on rifle so you wouldn't be caught in your own self reveal that reveals you even if you didn't land your stealth attack; A "stealth attack" that has an extremely telegraphed audio and visual cue. I'd be okay with the huge telegraph if the stealth attack didn't reveal you, kept you in "stealth" and instead showed the general location of you.

[DeceiverX.8361]

7 hours ago, bluehead.9842 said:

shadowmeld is my only survival for fight 1-1 with ranger, 

now with this changes, is like impossible for me to fight ranger 1-1 😞 

This does sway the matchup significantly for soulbeast, but this is more of a problem with soulbeast than anything if we're being honest.  At least DE can still dodge->kneel->rifle 4 and avoid most of the railgunning while OWP expires, whereas this changes nothing for Core/Daredevil.

If you previously played non-deadeye, the matchup was already dumb.  If you played any other class without instant access to sustain negation every 8 seconds with tons of mobility the matchup was dumb.  You shouldn't need to drop an entire trait line for one elite skill to handle one specific 1v1 matchup.

[AikijinX.6258]

Game still sxhit? 

Oh yeah. those patch notes..

Looks like my hiatus from game extends.

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by AikijinX.6258

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

I still feel like they bandaid patch things that "are broken" and instead dodge the fact we need things fixing like acrobatics to make taking any elite worth it, even shadow meld.  "We're touching up on weaponskills and skills that dont see much use" ....yay, caltrops...woopdeedoo...what about improvements on scorpion wire, the preparations still suck, specter has initiative and shroud problems (in wvw/spvp) you slap reveal removal away from shadow meld but dont increase anything to compensate like stealth duration. might i mention that the duration for reveal was extended to combat certain stealth abilities but never reverted AFTER this change comes considering we had stealth increase from SA removed and NOW SM has NO reveal removal making the elite not an elite and only a utility slot now...no one goes back to previous patches and does any investigation and it seems like no one on the team takes notes for review of the past. History is there for a reason, dont repeat it.

Sure Revealed Training is there, but whats that gonna do? bring p/p Ricochet BACK, reduce initiative costs of using unload in wvw/pvp considering they have tons of reflects already.

[flyingplanet.6912]

Well Shadow meld change would've been fine if all damage+lower ini + high stealth duration was present during old days.

Now that everything about deadeye got significantly nerfed, shadow meld change will put final nail in it's coffin. There are just too much reveal and damage it can handle. 

Deadeye is simply non-usuable in pve/pvp/wvw group fights even before the nerfs. It's only usage was RP or maybe wvw roaming? (I have seen maybe like 1 good solo roaming deadeye since 2020 feb patch).

Personally I think this is worse patch than the last patch which almost reduced deadeye range from 1500 to 1200, but why would Anet care? as long as they please reddit and wvw forum, they would be happy. 

Regardless of this patch, I think overall devs are now much more relying on reddit/streamer/forum perception of balance. Too much deletions to core concepts of each specs which were vital in making the game fun. 

[Crab Fear.8623]

9 hours ago, bluehead.9842 said:

shadowmeld is my only survival for fight 1-1 with ranger, 

now with this changes, is like impossible for me to fight ranger 1-1 😞 

they don't want you to 1 v 1

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:28 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

• Signets of Power: This trait has been reworked. It now causes signet skills to grant initiative when activated.
• Signet of Malice: Reduced cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds.
• Signet of Shadows: Reduced cooldown from 20 seconds to 16 seconds.
• Infiltrator's Signet: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds in PvE, and from 35 seconds to 28 seconds in PvP and WvW.

For PvE I do not think Signet's of Power will ever be taken over Twin Fangs. I could see it be taken In WvW / PvP though for sure. Right now I think Assassins Fury is much better to take if you are roaming or solo capturing, but that's my personal preference without trying the new changes.

Overall I never really used the trait signet's of power, but I might in the future. It will be interesting to see how it ends up. I like this change.

On 2/3/2023 at 12:28 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

• Trickster: This trait no longer reduces the cooldown of trick skills. Increased the number of conditions removed from 1 to 2.
• Caltrops: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds.
• Haste: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds in PvE, and from 45 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Roll for Initiative: Reduced cooldown from 35 seconds to 28 seconds in PvE, and from 50 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced initiative gain from 6 to 4 in PvP and WvW.

The Trickster change seems reasonable to me and aligned with the changes to cooldown reducing traits. I think the only trick skill that I take currently on any of my builds is withdraw or dagger storm's. Note: both cooldowns for withdraw or dagger storm were not touched at all though. I think the cooldown for withdraw is pretty low already, but it lost the additional benifit. How about the cooldown for Dagger Storm (90s -> 72s) being lost because of the trickster trait change?

Caltrops. I asked some of my thief friends who do benches for if they would ever take it for a condition daredevil PvE build. They said no. This is what they said.

Quote

caltrops applies every second, over a 10 second duration so the last bleed damage is dealt ~30 seconds after you cast. This means then you have another 20 seconds until that next caltrops is done applying all its full damage

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380903574282174466/1071534958633553920/image.png

I think it's a step in the right direction for build flexibility diversity. For PvE I wonder if caltrops should be changed again in the future so it works better (there's some problems with the skill from a PvE perspective). I think it may be possibly be great for WvW / PvP though!

Haste. I think this is really only useful for open world or PvP / WvW. There isn't any group content that would take it, but this is a good QoL change still.

Roll for Initiative: I haven't taken this really in any of my builds for a while so I don't really have a comment. I could see why people might be upset over the nerf to initiative in competitive modes though. Maybe it's because of the signet changes I wonder?

 

On 2/3/2023 at 12:28 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Daredevil

• Steal is no longer replaced by Swipe when the daredevil specialization is equipped.
• Impairing Daggers: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 18 seconds.
• Impact Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 30 seconds.

So basically the steal change is a revert of a 2019 change where swipe was added to physical supremacy. The steal change reduces the cooldown from 30s -> 25s and increases the range for daredevils from 600 to 1200. I think both of those are buffs. The unlockable though, that's a tough pill to swallow.

This is my feedback on steal. I kind of feel like if steal is blocked then maybe it should have a reduced cooldown, say -5 to -10s. Steal for DD is very important, especially if you hold it to rip boons to survive or overpower your opponent (this is often how I use it in sPvP). If steal is blocked in competitive modes then it's a massive nerf.

Impairing Daggers: no complaints here. I know some people were taking it before with brawlers tenacity (reduced cooldown), but that meant being a lot more squishy. I like this change. Actually I am surprised brawlers tenacity wasn't mentioned since it is a trait that reduces cooldown of physical skills.

Impact Strike: exciting change. I wonder how this will look like after the patch is applied :D.

 

On 2/3/2023 at 12:28 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Deadeye

• Deadeye's Mark is no longer removed when the deadeye goes into the downed state.
• Brutal Aim: Increased power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.75 in PvE only.
• Deadly Aim: Increased power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.1 in PvE only.
• Skirmisher's Shot: Increased power coefficient from 0.8 to 1.0 in PvE only.
• Spotter's Shot: Increased power coefficient from 1.15 to 1.3 in PvE only.
• Double Tap: Increased power coefficient per hit from 0.65 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Three Round Burst: Increased power coefficient per hit from 0.75 to 0.85 in PvE only.
• Shadow Meld: This skill no longer removes revealed in PvP and WvW.

Let me start by saying awesome QoL for deadeye's mark. I think it should have gone a step further, but this would be more complex. If you are doing a fight and a enemy phases or goes invulnerable your DPS can often go down quite a bit since you can't remark to a new target if mark is on cooldown.

This is another topic, but I would really love for malice to display properly in areas like deep stone fractal (it goes completely black in the first half), desert boarder lands (it goes a light brown color where there is fog), jormag in drizzlewood (it goes blue and blends in with the icey areas in the north) etc....

The rest of the DPS buffs, I can't wait to see what it will look like.

Shadow Meld: This change... yikes. Deadeyes mark is essential for damage which requires stealth, stealth is essential for survival for deadeye in competitive modes. It's awful to be revealed on deadeye. Shadow meld is currently the only counter play skill to counter revealed. Since this counter play was removed I think that some builds like soulbeast that use 'revealed' in their skills like 'sic em' should have their range or duration adjusted. Right now sick em has 2k range and for revealed for 6s. Overall I think the change to shadow meld are terrible. That brings to my next point which I want to emphasize heavily.

 

In all fairness I feel like if the only counter play for 'revealed'  is being removed from the game, then 'revealed' should be balanced as a 'whole'.

 

On 2/3/2023 at 12:28 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Specter

• Shadow Sap: The enemy-targeted version of this skill now grants might in an area around the specter. The ally-targeted version of this skill now grants protection.
• Well of Silence: This skill has been reworked. It now dazes enemies on the initial strike, then removes conditions from allies in the area on each pulse. Gain shadow force for each condition removed. Reduced cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Well of Bounty: Increased might stacks from 6 to 8 in PvE only.

Love these changes. Condi cleanse on a well, more might access on a well, and aoe might on scepter skill 2.

EDIT: @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 there were also these. This is a edit to give feedback on these too.

On 2/2/2023 at 4:19 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• Skelk Venom: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Keen Observer: Reduced health threshold requirement from 90% to 75% in PvE only.

Love these changes. I use Skelk Venoms on my Condi Specter and it will go very well with those builds. The Keen Observer trait is a awesome change! The Keen Observer trait will make power thief less jailed to being above 90% hp. Twin Fangs, Keen Observer and Scholar Runes all require 90% HP right now.

On a side note. It would have been nice if Twin Fangs was also adjusted from 90% to 75% in PvE only.

Edited February 5, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415
edit in missing changes about shelk venoms + Keen Observer

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

For PvE I do not think Signet's of Power will ever be taken over Twin Fangs. I could see it be taken In WvW / PvP though for sure. Right now I think Assassins Fury is much better to take if you are roaming or solo capturing, but that's my personal preference without trying the new changes.

Overall I never really used the trait signet's of power, but I might in the future. It will be interesting to see how it ends up. I like this change.

 

Trickster change seems reasonable to me and aligned with the changes to cooldown reducing traits. Again I don't think it will ever be taken in PvE, but that's fine.

Caltrops. I asked some of my thief friends if they would ever take it for a condi dd pve build. They said no. This is what they said -> 'caltrops applies every second, over a 10 second duration so the last bleed damage is dealt ~30 seconds after you cast. This means then you have another 20 seconds until that next caltrops is done applying all its full damage'

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380903574282174466/1071534958633553920/image.png

I wonder if think this change missed the mark for PvE, but I do think it's a step in the right direction for build flexibility diversity. Although I am still going to try it after. I think it may be possibly be great for WvW / PvP though!

Haste. I think this is really only useful for open world or PvP / WvW. There isn't any group content that would take it, but this is a good QoL change still.

Roll for Initiative: I haven't taken this really in any of my builds for a while so I don't really have a comment. I could see why people might be upset over the nerf to initiative in competitive modes though. Maybe it's because of the signet changes I wonder?

 

So basically the steal change is a revert of a 2019 change where swipe was added to physical supremacy. The steal change reduces the CD from 30s -> 25s and increases the range for daredevils from 600 to 1200. I think both of those are buffs. The unlockable though, that's a tough pill to swallow.

This is my feedback on steal. I kind of feel like if steal is blocked then maybe it should have a reduced cooldown, say -5 to -10s. Steal for DD is very important, especially if you hold it to rip boons to survive or overpower your opponent. If that's blocked in competitive modes then it's a massive nerf.

Impairing Daggers: no complaints here. I know some people were taking it before with brawlers tenacity (reduced cd), but that meant being a lot more squishy. I like this change. Actually I am surprised brawlers tenacity wasn't mentioned since it is a trait that reduces CD of skills.

Impact Strike: exciting change. I wonder how this will look like after the patch is applied :D.

 

Let me start by saying awesome QoL for deadeye's mark. I think it should have gone a step further, but this would be more complex. If you are doing a fight and a enemy phases or goes invulnerable your DPS can often go down quite a bit since you can't remark to a new target if mark is on cooldown.

This is another topic, but I would really love for malice to display properly in areas like deep stone fractal (it goes completely black in the first half), desert boarder lands (it goes a light brown color where there is fog), jormag in drizzlewood (it goes blue and blends in with the icey areas in the north) etc....

The rest of the DPS buffs, I can't wait to see what it will look like.

Shadow Meld: This change... yikes. Deadeyes mark is essential for damage which requires stealth, stealth is essential for survival for deadeye in competitive modes. If there is counter play to stealth, why is there no counter play for revealed? It's awful to be revealed on deadeye. Since this counter play was removed I think that some builds like soulbeast like 'sic em' should have their range nerfed or overall duration nerfed. Come on... 2k range and for revealed for 6s? The change to shadow meld is terrible.

 

In all fairness I feel like if counter play for 'revealed'  is being changed, then 'revealed' should be balanced as a 'whole' rather than removing the only skill that counters revealed.

 

Love these changes. Condi cleanse on a well, more might access on a well, and aoe might on scepter skill 2.

regarding the specter wells change...yeah a step in the right direction however it still will not be used as UTILITY due to the alacrity requiring wells to be spammed off cooldown in order to access it. Alactriy should be buffed BASE by 2s or the recharge rate lowered for the wells by 4s or even both. The power damage well is laughable and scales like crap with power based builds. no one takes it. still nothing adjusted to the other crap traits in specter which are very rarely take and the fact that the HP cut % effecting shroud does hell all in wvw/spvp. it needs to be buffed back.

 

• Signet of the Hunt: The active component of this skill now grants superspeed in addition to unblockable stacks. Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds.
  
  This is also going to make rapidfire rangers screw everyone over in competative mode that use stealth

what id love to see is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Punishing_Strikes to stay up for about 3 or so seconds if we miss a melee attack to allow some defence on projectiles, but if it hits with itself as a melee attack (not blocks) then it goes back to a normal chain auto attack chain. This aids on those using counted blocks like elementalists that block the next 3 attacks. This or allow us to use the autoattack chain without hitting something where it sort of acts like mesmer sceptor that doesnt need to have hit anything in their autoattack to go through their AA chain.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230