Shadowmeld does not remove revealed.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just slap 5 sec of Superspeed per charge and maybe using Meld grants 3 initiative and/or instant Malice idk.

And this comes for a warrior.

Funny how just as troublesome Deadeye is to get, I find DP daredevil still the more obnoxious stealth spammer.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*sip*

 

This is that short sightedness I was talking about. Why are people celebrating shadow meld getting axed without compensation in a way that makes sure it offers value? You think people will just keep using it?

 

I refuse to elaborate though. The people of that opinion will catch up come patch day. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*sip*

 

This is that short sightedness I was talking about. Why are people celebrating shadow meld getting axed without compensation in a way that makes sure it offers value? You think people will just keep using it?

 

I refuse to elaborate though. The people of that opinion will catch up come patch day. 

That implies they care about it being used. They clearly dont.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Good. Imagine if a class with such high mobility and stealth access could also have good 1v1 build. Teefs don't want to work for their kills, they want ez bags as it's used to be.

 

You realize you're in the PvP forum right? 

A 1v1 with a thief should be on or near a node and as mentioned they can't capture/decap a node while in stealth.  This means they must fight you out of stealth, making them not a threat unless you are focused (i.e. you are in an Xv1 situation).  

Seriously, mid g3 and constantly fighting plat players now and never have I gone 'man that thief is OP'.  Fighting two catas at once however...

Edited February 5, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Kuma.1503]

This was obviously done to reduce the amount of stealth spam DE has access to, and give players the ability to counter it with reveal. 

The problem... how is DE supposed to reset malice while revealed? How do you use Death's Judgement? It's not like you can just dodge the reveal from a skill like Sic Em either. 

 

If the goal is to reduce DE stealth, they could try something like this instead:

 

Shadow Meld - Meld with shadows becoming briefly invulnerable and breaking enemy targeting. Gain access to stealth attacks for the duration. 

 

In order to balance it, only stealth attacks will be usable during the duration. The screen can tint purple for some extra roleplay. You're not stealthed, but you still gain some brief defensive utility and can access your stealth attacks.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Shagie.7612]

Almost positive this was a mainly WvW focused change but applied to SPvP too tbh

Anyways, stealth is powerful and reveals are relatively rare. Game probably doesn't need a series of cascading uno reverse cards.
Something like this just needed to happen alongside other significant (but also unlikely) combat design changes.

Stealth ranged attackers are stupid in every RPG and an incredibly difficult thing to balance, especially if you pair it with high mobility. Every single time.

[apharma.3741]

6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*sip*

 

This is that short sightedness I was talking about. Why are people celebrating shadow meld getting axed without compensation in a way that makes sure it offers value? You think people will just keep using it?

 

I refuse to elaborate though. The people of that opinion will catch up come patch day. 

Probably because ANet has a history of doing this to everyone. Remember when they axed mantra charging for FB and didn't realise how it made mesmer mantras half as strong without any compensation at all?
Or how they removed a dodge from mirage and still haven't given it back but made sure to make Vindicator has 2 dodges even when specifically designed to have 1.
How about when they just deleted the heal on FB heal mantra with no compensation.

Sure it ain't right but neither was having removal of a counter to stealth spam and it's not like shadowmeld is completely unusable unlike a plethora of stuff that has been sbooned.

[Kodama.6453]

It's just another case of a skill getting smiter's booned. Instead of actually balancing a skill, just kill it entirely to make sure no one takes it anymore.

I am still salty about sneak gyro. They have to stop this trend of making elite skills worse than utility skill counterparts.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

10 hours ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

If the enemys didnt dare to touch you ,that meant that they know that DE have great mobility/survibity and it will be a waste to chase him/kill him and they would rather hit the immobilize Nerco with the 30 millions Shields

It could also mean that the DE was not a threat anymore since they just lost access to a key damage function, and thus it was better to focus the necro as it was more of an issue.

 

Food for thought. 

[Armanius.6741]

I've mained deadeye for ages in pvp. While I understand that the class is hard to catch, it's still extremely squishy once u catch it off guard. removing the reveal cleanse form the elite is like taking away the one thing it's good for. If they were really interested in "balancing" deadeye, they should just remove the second ammo skill, let it still remove reveal and give it a lower CD. That way, they can't just spam it. 

 

Like what others have mentioned, how is a deadeye supposed to kite off once they have used Death's Judgement? The balance team specifically made it so that the skill auto reveals u even when u have not landed the hit yet. They balanced it around the fact that deadeye CAN remove reveal. So what now? Such an awkward nerf. They did not even add anything to the skill to compensate for the huge nerf. Sounds like someone in the balance team is getting farmed by deadeyes and hates it. 

I love how the balance team just decides to basically make an elite skill useless when literally no one has been complaining about it yet they barely nerf FA ele. I've went through a lot of metas but the spamming of blinds, reflects, weakness, and superspeed is way too busted and annoying. It's hard to kill and does way too much damage. This season has not been fun at all. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Armanius.6741

[Copyright.9082]

I like how it gets nothing whatsoever in return. Blinding powder has more utility than this elite now xD. 

[Heibi.4251]

This is change that should have been done long ago. It rendered countermeasures specifically created by ANET in WvW moot. Now all they need to do is make the portal only let the thief who cast it use it in WvW.

[Endo.1652]

1 hour ago, Armanius.6741 said:

 Sounds like someone in the balance team is getting farmed by deadeyes and hates it. 

Ngl, I've been swapping to DE vs devs in pvp... oops XD.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Armanius.6741 said:

Like what others have mentioned, how is a deadeye supposed to kite off once they have used Death's Judgement?

Just... the same way every other class with stealth does...? Mesmer\engineer\ranger lands an attack from stealth, they are revealed, they kite for 3s until revealed wears off? What's the big deal now?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Just... the same way every other class with stealth does...? Mesmer\engineer\ranger lands an attack from stealth, they are revealed, they kite for 3s until revealed wears off? What's the big deal now?

 

Consider that the three classes you just mentioned have several other defensive buttons they can press that can prevent them from immediately going down, and don't rely on stealth for access to key damaging skills. 

 

If you're going to come to the above conclusion, don't build the class defensives/offensives around entering/maintaining/having constant access to stealth. 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

13 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Consider that the three classes you just mentioned have several other defensive buttons

I'm sorry, we live in a universe where thief has no access to evades, ports and blinds, where kneeled rifle4 is not a projectile block? You're not fighting from 1200 range where most classes won't have anything to use? Healing skill is not an evade, roll for ini isn't an evade either? Sword2 in and out of danger isn't a thing, rifle4 isn't a port?
How can you honestly claim "deadeye needs stealth to access damaging skills" when rifle2 legit tears HP bars apart? What the?

Edited February 6, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Just now, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'm sorry, we live in a universe where thief has no access to evades, ports and blinds?

Nobody said they didn't have access. However, the access to those things is less balanced around the mitigative skills themselves and more balanced around the presence of stealth, to the point that removing means of stealth access hurts thief playstyles disproportionately.

 

If you get targeted by a player after choosing to launch even a single damaging skill, initiative costs limit your access to those three things, and the utilities that provide these are (at least for now) high cooldown. 

 

Youd understand if your shatters shared cooldowns. 

 

 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nobody said they didn't have access. However, the access to those things is less balanced around the mitigative skills themselves and more balanced around the presence of stealth, to the point that removing means of stealth access hurts thief playstyles disproportionately.

You have stealth.

After 3s of landing your skills, just like every other class has. Because, believe it or not, being able to poke from 1200 range and immediately stealthing again is NOT good design. I understand thieves needs a window to land their skills, but I also happen to need a window to land my skills instead of having to chase through 16 stealths, blind and back-and-forth with shadowstep, and having thief mains also dropping the "having a 3s window to close some 1200 range is still too much 😞 I need 0s window or game is unfair"

Edited February 6, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You have stealth.

I can see this is pointless in arguing but I'm trying anyway. Look at the bigger picture here. What does thief lose with reduced access to stealth, and what playstyles do you think they will take if you continually make it harder for them to avoid damage while also not providing them means to do damage faster?

Quote

After 3s of landing your skills, just like every other class has.

Other classes don't rely on stealth for enabling their traits or attacks, or regenerating the resources needed to use their traits or attacks. 

Quote

Because, believe it or not, being able to poke from 1200 range and immediately stealthing again is NOT good design.

Correct take. But they're not building thief in a way that makes playing it riskily rewarding, so instead of this fixing that annoying interaction, it will just create another annoying interaction. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I understand thieves needs a window to land their skills, but I also happen to need a window to land my skills instead of having to chase through 16 stealths, blind and back-and-forth with shadowstep, and having thief mains also dropping the "having a 3s window to close some 1200 range is still too much 😞 I need 0s window or game is unfair"

 

You dont understand. If you don't do the bolded (or, if the bolded results in no significant damage due to nerfing of power coefficients on thief), you will get the italicized forever. 

Literally nobody said they need 0s window, but there's a very clear reason why you see very few thieves now, and the ones you do see are intent on making life as miserable for both of you as possible.

If thieves -cant- do enough damage to threaten people, and they -cant- fight protracted fights within close range because their mitigation sucks, they will gravitate to annoying, long distance builds that either only show up when you can't do anything about them or are designed around wasting time, both of which are more annoying than the issue people want fixed.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Razor.6392]

On 2/4/2023 at 6:46 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Imagine landing your spear of justice, the designated counter to stealth, and the thief just going LMAO NO and ignoring your mechanic altogether.

Imagine DE mememasters crying all of these tears because 6 years after release someone dared giving them an actually bad matchup, instead of allowing them to literally not give a kitten thanks to a gazillion ports then blinds then ignoring that one mechanic intentionally designed to prevent stealth abuse.

Imagine being unable to realize you still have ports and blinds and projectiles blocks and you're actually fighting from 1200 range, it's just you being unable to realize DJ was given the revealed for a reason and you can't just ignore that anymore.

It's an elite skill vs your F1 my guy.

[Raincloud.2594]

honestly, I'm convinced they have AI marketing programs making their decisions for them, it's insanity... literally I want to have a convo with the balance team, there is 100 skills that will target you through stealth, that 1 second on shadowmeld after the 1 second cast time is nothinggggg

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

12 hours ago, Raincloud.2594 said:

here is 100 skills that will target you through stealth,

More.

All skills will target you through stealth if you are targeted and the skill is cast while you are still visible EXCEPT for ones that require a target to launch at all. 

Everyone (hyperbole, but a good portion of experienced players) knows this, a good chunk of them are either truly incapable of precasting or pretending to be because they find interactions with thief unpleasant. 

It's okay though, just ganondorf it. Rise from the ashes of your last corpse to become annoying again. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261