Yearly/Semi-Yearly Expansions Sounds a lot like Icebrood Saga we pay for.

[Lily.1935]

I'm going to be fairly critical of this because the post honestly didn't give us much to go on and it sounds fairly similar to the same promise that was made with Icebrood Saga although instead of "Expansion like content" its replaced with "Mini Expansions". To me, it reads the same thing with a price tag which sours the announcement to me.

So, why does this sound bad? Well to put it simply Guild Wars 2 is built around a horizontal progression system while most MMOs are built on a vertical one. What's typical is an MMO will add maybe 5 to 10 levels with new skills and abilities to play with and sometimes a new class. Although most games don't give as much in this regard as guild wars 2 has traditionally with its expansions we still get that stuff. IF icebrood Saga had this sort of content I doubt it would have had such a poor reception like it had. And this new direction doesn't sound different to me than what was tried 4 years ago.

I think this direction can work, however players need something to expand there characters with. It doesn't need to be elite specializations especially with how regular the content will be coming, although I'd suggest having new elite specs every 4 years still, but between that time there absolutely needs to be new things to change up the way your players play. New Weapon types unlocked, new skills, new traits, a new specialization, a new class maybe, we don't need to strictly just add Elite specialization to add this horizontal progression the player's love. You can add smaller profession additions and the players wouldn't just be happy with it, they'd be ecstatic.

This for me is the big point for me. What I want in this game isn't just the story and group content. I like that stuff, but Its really difficult to want to go through that content with the same build I've been using for X number of years. The monotony of it needs to be broken up with new toys. There's so much that can be done here and I suspect it wont be as successful if we don't get this. I know for sure that I probably wont play the new expansions without this content. I just don't see a reason to when I'm bored of the skills I already have.

Overall, I'd like to read more about the expansions you're presenting but from what I've read so far, I'm less than excited.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Hey! No spoilers! (looks at post title).

[Randulf.7614]

Paying for it is less of an issue than paying for the quality we have had since DRMs onwards through to today. If they can address concerns on recent content rather than ignoring feedback, fix anything applicable and return to previous high standards, I have no objection to paying for it. IBS first half had its issues (mostly in map quality), but I’d have not regretted paying if they’d asked. Conversely, I do regret buying EoD.

Everything comes down to quality and standards which are currently below par for what they have previously set themselves.

[Khisanth.2948]

You have always paid for it. This is probably a cleverly disguised price increase. They mentioned a price reduction so it depends on what that price will be. If the price drops to $15 then it's around the same. On the other hand if it goes from $30->$20. It will probably result in a roughly 33% price increase.

[Astralporing.1957]

27 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

You have always paid for it. This is probably a cleverly disguised price increase. They mentioned a price reduction so it depends on what that price will be. If the price drops to $15 then it's around the same. On the other hand if it goes from $30->$20. It will probably result in a roughly 33% price increase.

If it's only a price increase, that's not a problem. There's been an inflation (depending on country sometines quite a significant one), so it's to be expected, after all. Problem is, that (like with IBS), the release model change, and speaking about "lesser" expansions lets them get away with not living up to older expansion expectations. Basically, i'd rather not see it ending with us paying more, and yet receiving less.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

38 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If it's only a price increase, that's not a problem. There's been an inflation (depending on country sometines quite a significant one), so it's to be expected, after all. Problem is, that (like with IBS), the release model change, and speaking about "lesser" expansions lets them get away with not living up to older expansion expectations. Basically, i'd rather not see it ending with us paying more, and yet receiving less.

That won't happen. What will happen is us not paying due to not byuing if the deal is raw.

[Khisanth.2948]

57 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If it's only a price increase, that's not a problem. There's been an inflation (depending on country sometines quite a significant one), so it's to be expected, after all. Problem is, that (like with IBS), the release model change, and speaking about "lesser" expansions lets them get away with not living up to older expansion expectations. Basically, i'd rather not see it ending with us paying more, and yet receiving less.

It will have the same amount of content as before. 😉

[Ashen.2907]

Paying for something I want, content in this case, seems reasonable to me. If a given piece of content does not meet my desires I can choose to not buy it.

[Lily.1935]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Paying for it is less of an issue than paying for the quality we have had since DRMs onwards through to today. If they can address concerns on recent content rather than ignoring feedback, fix anything applicable and return to previous high standards, I have no objection to paying for it. IBS first half had its issues (mostly in map quality), but I’d have not regretted paying if they’d asked. Conversely, I do regret buying EoD.

Everything comes down to quality and standards which are currently below par for what they have previously set themselves.

You should read further into the post because that's the least of my concerns.

[Randulf.7614]

2 minutes ago, Lily.1935 said:

You should read further into the post because that's the least of my concerns.

Quality is very high up my concerns, perhaps chief one and I suspect is for many. Doesn’t mean I disagree with you on things like weapon types and other horizontal progression enhancements.

[Gehenna.3625]

Well what I'm getting from this is quarterly content at no extra cost and smaller but more frequent paid expansions that will be lower in price compared to the previous three expansions. 

It could work really, if they keep up the cadence of every 3 months. The first quarterly update hits in two weeks, so we'll see how that goes. Personally, I'm thinking this might be a good approach for them.

What I do wonder about is whether there will be anymore elite specs at all. For me it's best they don't and take a lot longer look at what we have now. It really needs a lot of work.

[Lily.1935]

2 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Quality is very high up my concerns, perhaps chief one and I suspect is for many. Doesn’t mean I disagree with you on things like weapon types and other horizontal progression enhancements.

I haven't had an issue with the quality of the game personally. Icebrood Saga was rushed because they had a lot of backlash they were experimenting with ideas I didn't personally care for but I wouldn't say the quality was poor. But I don't think the Guild Wars story is enough moving forward for me.

IF the only thing we're getting is what's listed, which is what I strongly suspect to be the case, then Its not really going to matter to me personally how good the content is if the tools I have to play it with are the same I've been using for another 4 years. Maybe this isn't as big of a problem for other people who are more comfortable with alt characters and professions but me personally, I don't care for most of the professions.

There are play styles that I've been yearning for for 10 years now that the game has failed to deliver on and this post along with recent balance has given me no confidence in these play styles ever coming to light. Elite Specs added a lot of longevity to the game for me so without that promise there is no longevity for me personally.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

It will have the same amount of content as before. 😉

Yes. And IBS was expansion-level content.

[Lily.1935]

4 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well what I'm getting from this is quarterly content at no extra cost and smaller but more frequent paid expansions that will be lower in price compared to the previous three expansions. 

It could work really, if they keep up the cadence of every 3 months. The first quarterly update hits in two weeks, so we'll see how that goes. Personally, I'm thinking this might be a good approach for them.

What I do wonder about is whether there will be anymore elite specs at all. For me it's best they don't and take a lot longer look at what we have now. It really needs a lot of work.

$15 yearly assuming. Possibly $30. For comparison that's $30 for less content than Path of fire did in 2 years so half the content with no elite specs. I'd rather pay $60. If we're looking at the Development cycle of End of dragons that's 5 years so $75 which is much more than EoD. For HoT it was 4 years so $60 which is the same. In all of these cases with what they've promised it's less content for more money.

Maybe its only $10, but still it doesn't sit well with me because its not more content overall, its significantly less as its described with no Horizontal progression. No new Elite specs, skills, traits, specializations, weapon unlocks, none of that. No new Professions, no new Races. We get masteries which imo are system bloat more than anything. So its not a savings as you think. Its nearly identical to the cost we pay now or more.

[Randulf.7614]

I think we need to be careful with specific features speculation. Anet are relentlessly bad at communicating I know and they aren’t going to say whether the content will be supported by more elites, masteries and other things. We don’t know we aren’t going to get those things based on a small paragraph in a roadmap.

Its right to want these things, but not to act like we are not getting them. Not yet anyway.

 

[Lily.1935]

Just now, Randulf.7614 said:

I think we need to be careful with specific features speculation. Anet are relentlessly bad at communicating I know and they aren’t going to say whether the content will be supported by more elites, masteries and other things. We don’t know we aren’t going to get those things based on a small paragraph in a roadmap.

Its right to want these things, but not to act like we are not getting them. Not yet anyway.

 

Knowing Arena net if they didn't mention it specifically its not coming. That has been the pattern since release. Its better that if its not listed assume its not there.

[vares.8457]

I personally think that we have enough elite specializations now and don’t really need more but nowhere in the roadmap does it say that we won’t get new elite specializations. 

[Gehenna.3625]

13 hours ago, Lily.1935 said:

$15 yearly assuming. Possibly $30. For comparison that's $30 for less content than Path of fire did in 2 years so half the content with no elite specs. I'd rather pay $60. If we're looking at the Development cycle of End of dragons that's 5 years so $75 which is much more than EoD. For HoT it was 4 years so $60 which is the same. In all of these cases with what they've promised it's less content for more money.

First of all, they never said yearly. They said more frequently. I don't think they will be able to do a small expansion every year as it is. It'll be more like every 1.5 years each and the quarterly updates are at no extra charge for everybody. This takes out the gem cost for missed LW chapters and the new quarterly updates are paid for when you buy the new expansion. The difference is everybody pays the same now. I'm ok with that. Will it cost more per saldo? I think so. 

13 hours ago, Lily.1935 said:

Maybe its only $10, but still it doesn't sit well with me because its not more content overall, its significantly less as its described with no Horizontal progression. No new Elite specs, skills, traits, specializations, weapon unlocks, none of that. No new Professions, no new Races. We get masteries which imo are system bloat more than anything. So its not a savings as you think. Its nearly identical to the cost we pay now or more.

You are not being fair here. No new professions, specializations and races etc. are no news here. Elite specs you probably do have a point, but I think it's a complex mess already that doesn't need more mess imo. 

I don't know if it's going to be significantly less content. There will be new strike missions and even a new fractal every new expansion. That should please some people at least. New zones will still come but at a slower rate but a consistent rate at least. 

Will we pay more for content? I expect so, but then you can't expect a company to keep the same prices as 10 years ago, particularly when there's been so much inflation in recent years. I prefer they stay in business and this sounds like a reasonable solution to me..at this moment at least. 🤷‍♂️

Edited February 14, 2023 by Gehenna.3625
fixed a spelling mistake

[Randulf.7614]

2 minutes ago, Lily.1935 said:

Knowing Arena net if they didn't mention it specifically its not coming. That has been the pattern since release. Its better that if its not listed assume its not there.

Not consistently true. The assumption was that fractals were done because they never specifically talked about them. Now we know that’s false. They never announced elites or boats or fishing when they first announced Cantha. We still got them. 

The only consistent pattern is that they are inconsistent. Be concerned, but don’t take it as gospel it’s not happening because they haven’t announced what is featured a year ahead of release.

[Lily.1935]

4 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

I personally think that we have enough elite specializations now and don’t really need more but nowhere in the roadmap does it say that we won’t get new elite specializations. 

Never read into something that isn't listed. That's a good way for disappointment when it doesn't come.

[Lily.1935]

Just now, Randulf.7614 said:

Not consistently true. The assumption was that fractals were done because they never specifically talked about them. Now we know that’s false. They never announced elites or boats or fishing when they first announced Cantha. We still got them. 

The only consistent pattern is that they are inconsistent. Be concerned, but don’t take it as gospel it’s not happening because they haven’t announced what is featured a year ahead of release.

I seem to remember them specifically saying there would be new elite specs with the release of EoD.

[Randulf.7614]

Just now, Lily.1935 said:

I seem to remember them specifically saying there would be new elite specs with the release of EoD.

The original reveal had no information at all. They didn’t even confirm Cantha by name. Info was drip fed over time. It’s too early to say what is not coming, but I agree with you about avoiding hype and hope.

[Naxos.2503]

If they want this to stick they Seriously need to put in more effort into writing their characters, properly contextualizing them, fleshing out areas and making them tie in with the rest of the world.

 

Yes, that is quite clearly a critic of EoD, which essentially had none of those things. IBS started out alright, and took a turn for the absolute worse when they decided to turn well established character into a comical villain (Smodur) for cheap drama. Note that they could have atleast alleviated this by having hints that Jormag was speaking to him, but they didn't even bother going that far. There is a clear lack of effort and writing continuity with the latest releases which does not bode well for future content.

[Cyninja.2954]

To be fair, a lot of players were praising IBS and the first few maps of it.

Grothmar Valley was praised by many, even if it had structural deficits. Mainly no reason to return once one is "done". The metal legion event remains one of the best meta events in the game entertainment wise.

Bjora Marches suffers a similar fate of Grothmar, a lack of replay-ability/necessity in part due to it's 2 sided design. Drakkar remains a well run world boss, but that is it.

Drizzlewood is one of the highest farmed maps in the game and rather unique at that, in part mirroring on a larger scale The Silverwastes.

It's actually AFTER the main maps were designed and due to having to focus on EoD that the quality dropped significantly. Now do I think minor expansions around such maps can work? I personally doubt it, not unless the minor expansions have a tad more value to them. I still believe regular "big" expansions are a main draw for getting new players in. I might be wrong.

As far as content regularity though, this will definitely produce more regular content compared to what was delivered the last few years and not only for open world. That at least is a step up in my book.

As far as players who can't "afford" 15-20$ per year (that's what I assume the price will be at), while that is very unfortunate, I'm sad to say: you are not the target audience here.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

IBS was preety cool till the North event , and the  virus Fire nation attacked .

 

Do people know that every year a new "Fire nation" will spread out and magicly they old gg will unlearn the organization/proccess that they where forced to established , while they where from their home?

I wish i had those predictions skills....

 

Well i hope the devs ...not immediately ... answer if e-spec are an expanion feature (which they are are..they are the bread and the butter...) ...

...but i want to know in which topic they will graviated next ...(the PvPer did it , with the kitchen knife , in the living room)

Edited February 13, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940