(UPDATED) February 14 WvW Rewards Update

[Blanche Neige.7241]

5 hours ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

 

"Thank you for your patience while we addressed this issue. The content has been re-enabled."

 

The re-enabled content was the harvest temple strike mission, not the WVW rewards.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

43 minutes ago, Blanche Neige.7241 said:

The re-enabled content was the harvest temple strike mission, not the WVW rewards.

Good to know, but kitten Anet, context in a tweet would be great, especially when the tweet before related to disabling WvW rewards.

[Ombras.2853]

When are we getting the rewards back? Has been almost a full day.

[Grayjay.2475]

Communication? Of course, this is expected behavior. But still disappointing. 

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

Disregarding the situation itself, I am happy about the post and changes.  They definitely got the right idea and are moving in the right direction.  Reward good behavior in WvW.  Reward active participation.  Nascaring around a map was boring for everyone involved.  Encourage battles, fights, defense.  Encourage risk/reward behavior.  Combine that with good balance and working on boon balls, as well as population balance will make WvW function correctly.

[Rhansem.4865]

1 hour ago, Ombras.2853 said:

When are we getting the rewards back? Has been almost a full day.

They got turned off at almost end of work day for their studio. Give the devs some time to live their lives between updates. We were warned that they were live testing the system so expect this. Also, the way it was operating was encouraging match manipulation, people were jumping on alt accounts to treb smc so their main account could farm defence rewards. Should mean just upping the requirements to qualify for a defence, but they could be taking a moment to see other areas they didn't realize would be abused so hard and fix those before having it go live again. They want this to encourage fun player behaviour, not bannable player behaviour.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Rhansem.4865
typo

[Infusion.7149]

8 hours ago, nutri.1385 said:

Some context for just how op were the wxp boosts. My world had T3 SM yesterday, and there was one guy with a treb attacking one of the walls, getting it to 98% HP with each hit. The SM was contested because of this and everyone had a Repel event. In order to get gold participation for it we had to spend 25 supplies on repairing the wall. In T3 SM getting it rewarded us with 10k wxp every three minutes! 

I actually need a lot of ranks for the Warbringer and yesterday evening saved me a lot of time. But honestly, it felt broken as hell! People on the map chat were speaking about a nerf coming, everyone knew it's not as designed. 

The real reason it would be broken is low ranked players and high ranked players do not obtain the same tangible rewards. If you are diamond rank you really would not care about WxP that much and feel cheated of your time if new players are getting ranks nearly instantly for mindlessly fixing walls. It would also exponentially increase gold output across the game-mode (the real reason Arenanet would pull it from live server) since the WvW rankup rewards no longer have memories of battle but do have unid gear and ~24 silvers. Tying it to defend events is similarly ill-conceived unless proper checks are in play for player interaction (rather than just fixing walls), whereas relying on capping a T3 (not unsuccessful pushes) innately is timegated by the 20/40/80 yaks for tiering.

The proper check for SMC defense would probably be player interaction in the form of destruction of siege using your own siege in lord room or at the inner gate. Proper check for SMC assault likely would be or killing the lord , using siege on inner gate and standing in the ring. (i.e. defense counts burning oil on a siege weapon at the gate, killing enemies in the lord room) The proper check for keeps would probably be destruction of siege at the inner gate, killing players in lord room or inner keep.

Arenanet should think about the rewards that would benefit players of all experience that do not have an equivalent in other modes (memories of battle , grandmaster mark shards for example) as opposed to handing out ludicrous WxP and skirmish tickets which were clearly designed to be time-gated to some extent. Slapping liquid gold onto WvW achievements was never the right solution (see the weekly) either because PvE players especially will always use PvE as a baseline for comparison. The costs of things at the skirmish ticket vendor besides the precursors all require memories of battle and grandmaster marks.

[idpersona.3810]

5 hours ago, Blanche Neige.7241 said:

The re-enabled content was the harvest temple strike mission, not the WVW rewards.

Thanks. Was playing this morning before work to test things out and was pretty disappointed overall.
I was really looking forward to trying out the new system, but they took it offline before I got home and so so far I haven't gotten to try changes.  Guess I would have had to take the day off to get to play with them 😕

[Eclipsiste.3251]

Lots of changes to make WvW easier for new players: faster progression , easier access to WvW armor, etc., etc...

Setting aside the fact that all these changes tend to make all the time put in playing WvW feel a bit worthless...

When do you actually plan to add new contents for old timers who don't have need for this anymore? New ways to use tickets? New WvW skills? Ideas have been fed to you for years on this forums, and some players really have great improvement ideas, so why are we still waiting for the tiniest bit of innovation?

[Ombras.2853]

I mean, you could had improved Reward Tracks directly at that point.

[Infusion.7149]

19 minutes ago, Ombras.2853 said:

I mean, you could had improved Reward Tracks directly at that point.

I think the reason why they would not do that is some people are sitting on WVW potion stockpiles. The place to improve things is mainly on player fortified T3 captures (inherently timegated, so memories of battle and grandmaster mark shards) and any flipover of T3s (i.e. unsuccessful defend give grandmaster mark shards/memories of battle). Currently capping effort does not seem to be calculated , only the tier of the structure from what I am reading and hearing about.

The indirect way to reward tiered structure interaction is skirmish track progress (which also helps with the hours per week complaints in addition to making people that loop diamond get more memories of battle) not reward track progress.

[Johje Holan.4607]

15 hours ago, Mahdra.2863 said:

Basically, there just weren't enough enemy players to kill (and I think that was the issue), which seems to EFFECTIVELY PREVENT us from getting these rewards! This feels very uneven and unfair... if you happen to play when the opponent seems to be lower in numbers (which isn't by choice, but just the fact that we have work lives and can't just logon anytime during the day) we're not getting the opportunity to get similar rewards.

 

I thought this is the way it was designed to be?  And I think this is the way it should be.  If you take a keep with 50 on your side vs. 10 on their side, you should get less rewards than if you only had 10 on your side.  I thought this was the point of "scaling" rewards? 

 

4 hours ago, Rhansem.4865 said:

people were jumping on alt accounts to treb smc so their main account could farm defence rewards. 

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Booey Bubblehead.4890]

From day one, Guild Wars 2 ultimatum has been YOU WILL PLAY IN A GROUP EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO OR YOU GET NOTHING.  Guess what, they have taken the one place where people could still roam and play alone and FORCED THEM TO PLAY IN A GROUP.   Thank you so much for runing the last bastion of solo game play.

Not that I should need to go here but I will.  I use to love PVE, yeah you can solo stuff in PVE; however, I now have a disability that prevents me from doing that type of content.  Solo roaming in wvw was the last thing my disability would allow me to do and now I can't even do that.  I cannot play in a group, I do not possess the physical ability to do this any more.  So that's it for me.  It doesn't need to make sense to anyone reading and I'm not asking anet to account for my disablity.  What I am saying is why the forced group play ultimatum if you want any reward.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Booey Bubblehead.4890

[idpersona.3810]

Anyone know if they've reinstated the Scaling Rewards yet?

[Blanche Neige.7241]

37 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Anyone know if they've reinstated the Scaling Rewards yet?

Apparently not. Defended a T3 Earth Keep two times. Only got karma as reward.

[Serephen.3420]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:21 PM, Efar.8153 said:

you know that it is more difficult for 2 players to take over a camp than it is for a full squad to take a keep. maybe we should give the same rewards to all. just saying.

Two players new to the game and undergeared perhaps? I flip camps solo all the time. It's only a challenge when it gets to t3 because of those asuran guards spamming pulls😅

[Akneiz.8364]

8 hours ago, Johje Holan.4607 said:

I thought this is the way it was designed to be?  And I think this is the way it should be.  If you take a keep with 50 on your side vs. 10 on their side, you should get less rewards than if you only had 10 on your side.  I thought this was the point of "scaling" rewards? 

 

This highlights the reason that requiring objectives to be defended to get full (ie gold level) rewards for attacking it is a bad idea. Yes, the thought of having big epic battles for any objectives feels better than just two (or more) zergs orbiting a map opposite each other capping undefended towers and keeps. Increasing rewards for defending is not a bad thing, but reducing rewards for attacking undefended (by players) is a terrible idea.

 

This approach relies on players being "actively inactive" by just sitting in a tower, keep, or SMC waiting for an attack to come. I may be new to WvW but unless I'm missing something that means your overall participation level is going down while you sit there and wait, which is a core mechanic for making sure players don't just actively play long enough to boost it then sit around taking up space without actually doing anything and collecting rewards (leeching). That mechanic for being active (participation decay) would have to be removed in order to motivate people to be inactive until an enemy zerg comes knocking on the gate of the objective thay're sitting in. When given the option of losing guaranteed rewards in order to maybe get increased rewards if the players on the other teams oblige or going out and attacking for guaranteed lesser rewards while still getting the guaranteed participation rewards it should be pretty obvious that nobody is going to sit around doing nothing. And because everybody is still doing everything they were doing before (attacking and not defending) all this does is reduces the rewards people get for what they're actually doing.

 

Offhand, the only way I can think of to fix this contradiction would be to give participation credit for just sitting in an objective "defending" it when it isn't being actively attacked. But then you'd just end up with everybody "defending" objectives that never get attacked because the other team is also full of people just "defending" their own objectives. And it would end up like that because even if you're increasing rewards for attacking you've also negated the anti-leeching mechanic and maps will fill with afk leechers who don't care about max participation because they're not actually playing but they can still get rewards by parking themselves in a keep when they're not actually playing. Even if you kick players out of the maps for inactivity you've just reduced the effective number of players per map because people will still do the leech even for minor rewards before getting booted or, more likely, they'll just park in an objective while tabbed out doing something that's not GW2 and checking back to move a couple steps between rounds of Overwatch or whatever so they don't get flagged as "inactive" defenders. 

[Efar.8153]

please delete

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Efar.8153
please delete

[Myniel.3745]

I can say since the last update, defense is the last thing you care about.. every person is happy to get the weekly, their is no reason to defend it until the only way you get weekly is to ppt them and flip something. And with the resource update you make the gap bigger between low pop and high pop servers.. for low pop its unplayable and de motivated. Fix the poblem with lower pop before you change the real wvw mechanics! 

 

In therms of reward..

the standard t3 flip is 50v10 and should not rewarded. 

[Arzael.1823]

8 minutes ago, Myniel.3745 said:

I can say since the last update, defense is the last thing you care about.. every person is happy to get the weekly, their is no reason to defend it until the only way you get weekly is to ppt them and flip something. And with the resource update you make the gap bigger between low pop and high pop servers.. for low pop its unplayable and de motivated. Fix the poblem with lower pop before you change the real wvw mechanics! 

 

In therms of reward..

the standard t3 flip is 50v10 and should not rewarded. 

This !!! Only its not PPt they do its Karmatrain... PPT ppl defend but this is the new egotrain upcoming ...and pls anet dont tell us now population is going up... some pve ppl joining egotrain and doing absolut nothing for team including defend t3 cause they just want some gold and achives are not helpful... its little if yo say ..ok we dont have 11 ppl for the soccerteam on both sides... so we pay some gardeners standing there well payed and call it a fair game^^

[Polar.8634]

Person who prefer capping undefended objectives to fights/defend will just become rallybot in fight. It's better when karma train people do what they can, ppt is useful in it's way.  Still better then feed them over and over to enemy squad.

[Samoth.4258]

Fact now we have no rewards chests and the loot and wxp for capturing a tower etc is lower than before the patch.

 

Now we have a reward and wxp nerf. this makes sense if there are reward chests.

 

Solution a rollback to the rewards and wxp system before the patch or find a solution a fast as possible to reactivate the reward chests,

 

 

[Myniel.3745]

Its always Population wise.. if you in a low pop, nothing makes fun, defense dont make fun, zerging dont make fun and so on.. but if you in a high pop, against a other pop, here comes the real wvw and it makes total fun, 50v50 voice zergs i love it, but as i said before, low pop destroys the fun, destroys the wvw. Its the real problem on wvw and not the mechanics the try to fix its a blame 

[Fives.3057]

Hi most of the time I roam or play a support ele  in WvW and I have never felt this discouraging to play WvW than after this update. It is utterly frustrating to take a t1 tower with two people and only get bronze or silver for the event reward for doing so. And if you are a support it’s just awful now because it feels like nothing but kill count toward participation. I was lucky enough to get on a cata one time and help to destroy the wall, did a little bit of damage to the lord, stood in the circle and tried to keep my teammates alive and still only got bronze participation. It always feels like a slap in the face to see the bronze and silver participation. 

I get the fact that you don’t want to give out  the same rewards for taking a T1 tower vs a T3 tower or a defended tower vs an undefended tower but can’t you just make it different events? I mean if you do an event alone in pve you still get the full acknowledgement for doing it (gold reward) but if you do the same event with a big group it scales up champions spawn and you get more loot over all. Why not do it the same way in WvW more enemy players  = bigger event = bigger rewards and not just making a small event bronze participation.

And for the love of God please look into rewarding support players better!!!

[Eudaimonia.8695]

Could you at least roll back to the previous version until you have a fix/change ready, please?