So, can we finally get rid of transmutation charges?

[ScottBroChill.3254]

They don't want you to know this but transmutation charges are the impervious foundation that keeps this game financially afloat.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

They don't want you to know this but transmutation charges are the impervious foundation that keeps this game financially afloat.

Nah that sounds more like keys.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it.

gold -> gems -> transmutation charges, there's your gold sink?

[Ashen.2907]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:24 PM, DarcShriek.5829 said:

If I could give away a couple hundred of mine, I would.  I'm basically geared up in legendary items and don't need the couple thousand that I have.

Same.

[Ithlia.1830]

I enjoy playing dress up dolls with my characters so I'd love to have the transmutation charge system go away, but I don't see it happening. My biggest complaint about the charges is having to pay to use skins bought from the gem store after their first use. Purchased skins should be free to use over and over.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ithlia.1830

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

gold -> gems -> transmutation charges, there's your gold sink?

Are you purposefully being obtuse?  ESO and Champions online have outfit slots that cost real money and you can freely swap between these outfits at no cost while changing your outfit costs ingame currency which just accrues over normal gametime.  I can average about  30k gold a day in ESO which is more than enough to tweak my outfits to my liking.  The most I've ever spent in ESO on an individual outfit is 150k and that was changing everything about it to the more expensive skins I had unlocked. 

In Champions Online, I completely redid an entire character's outfit for 4 globals  (Their version of gold).  I could get that much in a couple days of inefficient farming or a single hour if I did the right content.

Both games make it so your new outfit slot costs nothing to apply a new look to.

Let's look at how much 5 transmutation charges cost.  150 gems.  This is 53g 56s 05c to change 5/6 pieces of armor.  Wow, spending so much gold to not change everything about my outfit sure is appealing.  Your gear slots (Which double as outfit slots here, let's be honest) still require you to acquire  new gear if you want a new look in that slot so you now have the cost of a new armor set, runes, sigils, trinkets; and, if you're bold, infusions.

53g 56s 05c  is nowhere near the same low cost to time as Champions Online or ESO.

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it.

Why?  How would doing so benefit the game/community/Anet in ways that are better than the current model?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Why?  How would doing so benefit the game/community/Anet in ways that are better than the current model?

Whales will spend money on whatever they want from the store so nothing changes there.
Your average player will be able to more freely change their appearance (especially if  cost scales with level)
Veterans remain unaffected as they either have too much gold for the cost to matter, or legendary equipment where it'd be free to change anyways.

The average player will be more likely to buy skins from the gemstore if they're usable for 'free' more than once.

[DarcShriek.5829]

24 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Are you purposefully being obtuse?  ESO and Champions online have outfit slots that cost real money and you can freely swap between these outfits at no cost while changing your outfit costs ingame currency which just accrues over normal gametime.  I can average about  30k gold a day in ESO which is more than enough to tweak my outfits to my liking.  The most I've ever spent in ESO on an individual outfit is 150k and that was changing everything about it to the more expensive skins I had unlocked. 

In Champions Online, I completely redid an entire character's outfit for 4 globals  (Their version of gold).  I could get that much in a couple days of inefficient farming or a single hour if I did the right content.

Both games make it so your new outfit slot costs nothing to apply a new look to.

Let's look at how much 5 transmutation charges cost.  150 gems.  This is 53g 56s 05c to change 5/6 pieces of armor.  Wow, spending so much gold to not change everything about my outfit sure is appealing.  Your gear slots (Which double as outfit slots here, let's be honest) still require you to acquire  new gear if you want a new look in that slot so you now have the cost of a new armor set, runes, sigils, trinkets; and, if you're bold, infusions.

53g 56s 05c  is nowhere near the same low cost to time as Champions Online or ESO.

It does not cost 150 gems to get 5 transmutation charges.  It only costs that much in the gem store.  I have thousands of charges from WvW and PvP.  They were all free.  By ignoring these options you are distorting the cost of gems.  Your argument is dishonest.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

9 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

It does not cost 150 gems to get 5 transmutation charges.  It only costs that much in the gem store.  I have thousands of charges from WvW and PvP.  They were all free.  By ignoring these options you are distorting the cost of gems.  Your argument is dishonest.

And now you're not reading the context to the post I was responding to. 

In short, I suggested that the replacement cost just be gold cost (Coppers, silvers, actual gold) similar to how ESO and Champions Online tie a cost to changing appearance.   Sobx decided to respond with the most expensive method possible to purchase transmutation charges as though it simply costing gold already exists (Technically it does, but not in the same spirit as either o f the games I listed).  I went to prove to them that this was the case.

So yes, it does cost 150 gems to get 5 transmutation charges if your goal is to convert gold to gems to buy the charges.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Epsilon Indi.2031

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

And now you're not reading the context to the post I was responding to. 

In short, I suggested that the replacement cost just be gold cost (Coppers, silvers, actual gold) similar to how ESO and Champions Online tie a cost to changing appearance.   Sobx decided to respond with the most expensive method possible to purchase transmutation charges as though it simply costing gold already exists (Technically it does, but not in the same spirit as either o f the games I listed).  I went to prove to them that this was the case.

So yes, it does cost 150 gems to get 5 transmutation charges if your goal is to convert gold to gems to buy the charges.

The only thing you said is to make it a gold sink. The gold sink already exists. It doesn't change the fact that it's not even close to somehow being the only option to get those charges -something I'm pretty sure I already mentioned in this thread earlier. Not sure what you think you've "proven" to me here. "because somewhere else it's cheaper!" changes nothing about transmutation charges already being a gold sink for people that want them to be gold sink. It also changes nothing about transmuation charges being acquirable through other means.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[DarcShriek.5829]

The point is, you don't have to use gold.  I have never bought a transmutation charge and I have THOUSANDS of them.  Converting gold to gems is the most expensive and time consuming way to get transmutation charges.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

24 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

The point is, you don't have to use gold.  I have never bought a transmutation charge and I have THOUSANDS of them.

Neither have I used gold.  I have most everything as legendary, but it's either deal with WvW (Which is still slow), do PvP even though that game mode is horribly imbalanced (Not in term of game balance, but matchups), or farm the same 6 home cities for transmutation charges.  The fastest way to get transmutation charges is to  get a good karma train going in wvw and spend your rank up chests on them.  PvP, unless you're already high rank and progressing the reward tracks fast, is going to be slower than WvW  and both require other players to be present or it's going to be slow.

29 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Converting gold to gems is the most expensive and time consuming way to get transmutation charges.

Yes, thanks.  We both agree that gem conversion is a horrid way to get transmutation charges which is what my post before was explaining to Sobx.
 

25 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The only thing you said is to make it a gold sink.

Here's what I actually said.  I made the part you're leaving out to build your strawman from.

3 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it.

Notice the comparison "like how ESO and Champions Online do it." , Sobx?  That means I want it to function like it does in those two other games listed there.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Here's what I actually said.  I made the part you're leaving out to build your strawman from.

Notice the comparison "like how ESO and Champions Online do it." , Sobx?  That means I want it to function like it does in those two other games listed there.

You're not on ESO or CO forum though, so next time try to describe what you have in mind more precisely. "Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it." can -and was- easly be understood as "x and y made them to be gold sinks, so lets make it a gold sink here to". Hence the response.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You're not on ESO or CO forum though, so next time try to describe what you have in mind more precisely. "Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it." can -and was- easly be understood as "x and y made them to be gold sinks, so lets make it a gold sink here to". Hence the response.

Maybe expecting people to do their own research is too much, I suppose.

Opening your favorite search engine and looking up "ESO outfit customization" got me right to the help page for making an outfit and how it works (Specifically using google on a vpn and private, sandboxed browser with no cookies).  Also "Champions Online Character customization" got me the wiki page as the first result that goes into detail on hero abilities and customization (Again, specifically using google on a vpn and private, sandboxed browser with no cookies).

You could have also just stated "I've not played those games, could you describe to me in a succinct manner how their outfit system works?"  But you decided to be obtuse and make an argument out of straw.

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Maybe expecting people to do their own research is too much, I suppose.

Opening your favorite search engine and looking up "ESO outfit customization" got me right to the help page for making an outfit and how it works (Specifically using google on a vpn and private, sandboxed browser with no cookies).  Also "Champions Online Character customization" got me the wiki page as the first result that goes into detail on hero abilities and customization (Again, specifically using google on a vpn and private, sandboxed browser with no cookies).

You could have also just stated "I've not played those games, could you describe to me in a succinct manner how their outfit system works?"  But you decided to be obtuse and make an argument out of straw.

Please re-read with understanding: "Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it." can -and was- easly be understood as "x and y made them to be gold sinks, so lets make it a gold sink here to".

No amount of your "favorite search engine" suggestions will change anything about that.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

A series of outfit tabs we could assign unlocked looks to, even paying charges for each slot, would be a great way to open up more freedom to change looks without budgeting charges.

Give three or so to each character, and then sell additional tabs in the store. I expect ANet would make more money than they currently do just selling charges to PvE players.

[Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203]

I doubt that Anet reads this forum.  But anyway you can make enough charges from one wvw zerg to last a while.  The problem is knowing that only comes from accident.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

We can't even get people to use the forum search function, so.... yeah.

Yeah, seriously  I should lower my expectations, but sometimes I wonder even if I explain everything as clearly as I can, if they'll bother reading it or just react with confusion because it's posted by me and they have some petty vendetta against what I post.

 

10 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

As for making this a gold sink, how does that help Anet make more money?

In short, less gold in the wallet means people are more likely to pay money for gems and convert to gold.  Secondly, they could push more monetization on gear templates (Give us more for more style) and divorce gear appearance from the gear within the template.  Legendary equipment would still be free to transmute.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Again, please try understanding what you're reading. This is not "a semantics argument", this is -I thought rather clear- explanation of how what you wrote was understood:
"Make it a gold sink like how ESO and Champions Online do it." can -and was- easly be understood as "x and y made them to be gold sinks, so lets make it a gold sink here to".

Which part of this is somehow hard to understand for you? Why is this still going on? All I did was explain to you (like 3 times now?) how I understood what you've said and you're going off with claims of it being "semantics argument". That's not what it is at all. I literally don't understand what -and for what reason- you're trying to argue about right now, while at the same time claiming "this is how I argue". 🤨

IDK what else you want from me.  I gave you a method to find the info on your own.  I even explained how both those games outfit systems work in a prior post.  You're the one that's latching onto a semantics argument here after I called you out for you not bothering to do your own research.

I suppose from now on, just for you, I'll make sure I explain everything  down to the most minute detail sicne asking you to tab out of this forum is a bit too much  of an ask.

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Maybe expecting people to do their own research is too much, I suppose.

Opening your favorite search engine and looking up "ESO outfit customization" got me right to the help page for making an outfit and how it works (Specifically using google on a vpn and private, sandboxed browser with no cookies).  Also "Champions Online Character customization" got me the wiki page as the first result that goes into detail on hero abilities and customization (Again, specifically using google on a vpn and private, sandboxed browser with no cookies).

You could have also just stated "I've not played those games, could you describe to me in a succinct manner how their outfit system works?"  But you decided to be obtuse and make an argument out of straw.

This is interesting. So you expect other people on gw2 forums to get so interested in your post about other mmos game mechanics they do not play. When they don’t see anything wrong about current game mechanic in gw2? And that they will “do their own research” rather then expect you to explain it better in the first place? To most people it’s not worth that effort.  And it’s quite understandable. Might want to explain it better next time.

gold to gem already works as intended. With this mechanic you can indeed use ingame gold to buy them if you want. 5 transmutation charges costs 56 gold. There’s your gold sink. And the best part: Anet gets their money (Although I doubt they get much from these. Only they know how many they sell) If you remove this, how do you expect them to earn money from the loss they make from gold to gems? Do you expect them to charge more for transmutation charges if we can buy them directly with gold? So we have less gold and will buy gold with gems? I highly doubt so. You would expect them to charge less gold which means they will indeed lose gem purchases. However small amount that would be. 

[Sobx.1758]

25 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

IDK what else you want from me. 

What am I supposed to "want from you"? What tipped you at the fact I wanted anything from you? Literally explained to you why I responded in the way I did. And it was because what you wrote was too vague to be understood the way you wanted it to be understood. That's all it was and is.

25 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

I gave you a method to find the info on your own.

At no point you needed to give me "a method to find the info", I'm more than ok at that aspect.

25 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

  You're the one that's latching onto a semantics argument here after I called you out for you not bothering to do your own research.

Again, what I'm writing is not some attempt at "semantics arguments", it's a simple explanation of why I responded how I did. Which part of what you've quoted EXACTLY is still unclear? I don't get what you're even responding to from what I wrote. Stop being so bent on trying to insult me in this thread for whatever weird reason and maybe something will click.

40 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

In short, less gold in the wallet means people are more likely to pay money for gems and convert to gold. 

Maybe, except you want the price to be functionally lower, which works in the opposite direction than you describe it here.

 

 

Moving on: transmutation charges are fine. You can get them through gameplay, you can use them as additional gold sink or you can use them as a way to support the game.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

25 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

This is interesting. So you expect other people on gw2 forums to get so interested in your post about other mmos game mechanics they do not play. When they don’t see anything wrong about current game mechanic in gw2? And that they will “do their own research” rather then expect you to explain it better in the first place? To most people it’s not worth that effort.  And it’s quite understandable. Might want to explain it better next time.

 

No, I'm expecting them to at least as questions and at most search it up themselves instead of trying to be smart and miss the point entirely.  Sobx didn't contribute to the discussion, they just built a straw man and latched on to a semantics argument when their initial one was proven wrong.
 

25 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

gold to gem already works as intended. With this mechanic you can indeed use ingame gold to buy them if you want. 5 transmutation charges costs 56 gold. There’s your gold sink.

See my prior post as to why this is against the spirit of what I suggested.  The rate of return is absurdly out of order and, with how easy it is to earn them in game (By quite a few accounts in this very thread), removing the requirement for transmutation charges would do little to no harm.

 

28 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

And the best part: Anet gets their money (Although I doubt they get much from these. Only they know how many they sell) If you remove this, how do you expect them to earn money from the loss they make from gold to gems? Do you expect them to charge more for transmutation charges if we can buy them directly with gold? So we have less gold and will buy gold with gems? I highly doubt so. You would expect them to charge less gold which means they will indeed lose gem purchases. However small amount that would be. 

If it's a proper gold sink (Think TP tax, waypoint cost, etc.), people will have less overall gold, meaning they're more likely to buy gold with gems they purchase.  People already spend a lot more money in small purchases than they do big purchases.  So many people freely waypoint because it costs silvers and so many people post things to the trading post without a care for the tax.  Also on the purchasing of skins, I, for one, would buy more weapon skins if it didn't cost a transmutation charge to change the ones I don't have legendary yet after I use the initial skin.

[kharmin.7683]

Those other MMOs.... what is their business model?  Are they also B2P or do they have a sub?