WvWvW is unfair

[senftube.6081]

As we know, the mode is quite unfair. The players who transfer after each relink are rewarded. Why has Anet not yet managed to reward those players who stay on their server for 10 years and thus revive the WvW? Why are only those players rewarded who go like locusts from A to B to rub over the opponents in superior numbers?

 

At the moment, players are simply rewarded for spending money and piling up on a server. 🙄

Edited February 20, 2023 by Yunari.9065

[Sandzibar.5134]

25 minutes ago, Yunari.9065 said:

 rewarded for spending money

 

Tada!

Edited February 20, 2023 by Sandzibar.5134

[gashen.3874]

you,ve said it all , because they spend money

[Absurd.2947]

How does you staying on a server for 10 years revive WvW?

[senftube.6081]

34 minutes ago, Absurd.2947 said:

How does you staying on a server for 10 years revive WvW?

Maybe becaue there are still players which do not need some hardcore handholding and mass transferring after each relink?

[Absurd.2947]

10 minutes ago, Yunari.9065 said:

Maybe becaue there are still players which do not need some hardcore handholding and mass transferring after each relink?

I'm sorry, I misread. You meant that rewarding players for staying on servers would revive WvW. My bad.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Absurd.2947

[Dawdler.8521]

It's almost as if this idea of world and server pride has long since been obsolete and there should be a way to stick with some sort of group of players instead, a "guild" sort of speak.

[KeyOrion.9506]

I have never switched servers.  I have been on the same server since early access in GW2.  If anything, give a title for so many years on a specific server.  "Jade Quarry Loyalist" etc etc.  That way we can rub the noses in it of all the players that server jumped.

[Xenesis.6389]

5 minutes ago, KeyOrion.9506 said:

I have never switched servers.  I have been on the same server since early access in GW2.  If anything, give a title for so many years on a specific server.  "Jade Quarry Loyalist" etc etc.  That way we can rub the noses in it of all the players that server jumped.

You mean titles we don't even see unless we click on the person to see their target plate?

Yup, really rubbing that one in...

🍿

 

[KeyOrion.9506]

1 minute ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

You mean titles we don't even see unless we click on the person to see their target plate?

Yup, really rubbing that one in...

🍿

 

We're not in WvW all day and night.  We do enter the game through PvE.  And I do get people that are new that go, "Hey, how did you get that title", sometimes titles gets a new player or even an old player interested in a different aspect of the game.  Believe it or not, I've helped people figure out how to get certain titles.  "Hey how did you get that title?"  WvW, PvP, Mission, grinding.  Believe me, titles catch peoples interest.

[Xenesis.6389]

13 minutes ago, KeyOrion.9506 said:

We're not in WvW all day and night.  We do enter the game through PvE.  And I do get people that are new that go, "Hey, how did you get that title", sometimes titles gets a new player or even an old player interested in a different aspect of the game.  Believe it or not, I've helped people figure out how to get certain titles.  "Hey how did you get that title?"  WvW, PvP, Mission, grinding.  Believe me, titles catch peoples interest.

So how's that rubbing it in wvw players faces if it's pve players asking about them?

🤷‍♂️

[Mabi black.1824]

So, let's start by saying that the author of this post has made an intelligent consideration. Because the question we should all ask in reference to this is that the groups of players who care to transfer punctually the week after the reconnections, choosing very carefully where it is convenient to stack, have a behavior opposite to whatever the logic of our wonderful algorithm that is concerned with building more balanced games,   as far as possible.

The result is to ruin the games for all the other players who simply play the games that Anet builds / proposes.

Now Anet has always refused to apply any form of control over these transfers, but honestly she could have invented anything not to encourage this type of attitude of her average player.

And given how much interest it triggers in the average player gold and items in WWW (total surprise for me with this recent feedback) could have simply reduced the coefficient of collecting bags for a limited period after the transfer.

This would have 0 influence on a general aspect of this mode, but as far as I can see, it would have some influence on the individual player who transferred, even for a limited period, maybe 8 weeks as the reconnection period.

To do things, you have to want them first. Then you will discover 1000 different ways to get them.

[Absurd.2947]

Any kind of sensible talk ends with you guys thinking that veteran players (those who make actual difference) transfer for rewards. 

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

So, let's start by saying that the author of this post has made an intelligent consideration. Because the question we should all ask in reference to this is that the groups of players who care to transfer punctually the week after the reconnections

Giving intelligent consideration to this topic, the first question I would ask is, is there really many groups of players who transfer punctually the week after the relinks?  The second question I would ask: is this really such a big problem as it is being made out to be?  There's no reason to subscribe to the assertions being made that players always move like locusts.

In NA there are guilds who move whenever relinks come up and they all do so for different reasons, most of which is related to changing up their content options.  Or if their server got overpopulated.  The most recent relink saw a lot of NA guilds moving to lower tiered servers.

[Johje Holan.4607]

Anet should just institute the transfer policy that they plan for alliances right now. You can transfer servers but it doesn’t take effect until the next linkup. Accomplish two things at once; prevent mass transfers from messing up the population balance and also can test the new system at the same time. 

[neven.3785]

Our guild (roughly 60 active players) moved off of Maguuma just after the last relinks because our guild couldn't do anything and people started leaving the game after over a month of the boycott maguuma campaign.  40 minutes to get through the queue to play on a dead map ruins morale.  The boycott worked i guess, people left mag, unfortunately it was the only guild who ran organized and on the BLs, not to mention one who has played on maguuma for over 9 years.  The people they wanted gone are still there.
The result of us moving was not more rewards, it was more activity.  However we still got the standard punishment of no skirmish chests, and a lot of gold spent to get people over fast before the price rose.

[Knighthonor.4061]

if anet would create more spending opportunities for WvW players, they would get more money. RIght now we only have Warclaw skins as the main WvW exclusive Gem Store stuff.

[KeyOrion.9506]

One aspect you did not all take into consideration, is that some players are not transferring.  Some of your players have multiple accounts set across multiple servers.  They can literally hop between servers at the drop of a Logoff and Login.  There are a couple of WvW commanders and those guilds that those commanders lead, that have multiple accounts.  If you don't know which commanders, and which guilds, then you really haven't been paying attention.  Not everyone can server jump without spending a bit in gems, which requires either a lot of grinding, or a nice big fat wallet.  Even then, the server has to be "open".  Which quite a few of those WvW servers are closed.

You have to understand, the old WvW Seasons, actually caused a severe imbalance as players transferred to those teams that were considered winners during each Season.  Seasons was taken out specifically because it caused a massive player population imbalance.  That's why it costs so much Gems to transfer to a server, and only when it's open.  Right now, Arenanet has been hoping beyond hope that there will be a proper Balance in population.  That has not happened.  Entire guilds have already chosen that if a certain Server opens, that they will transfer immediately and have saved resources to do so, when it occurs.

Edited February 21, 2023 by KeyOrion.9506

[senftube.6081]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:42 PM, Absurd.2947 said:

Any kind of sensible talk ends with you guys thinking that veteran players (those who make actual difference) transfer for rewards. 

 

Rewards doesn't mean only items etc.. Rewards are also when you kill enemys etc. . But balance is so bad when vet players stack all and rubbing AND outnumbering servers with alot more public/casual or newbie players. That is vertical balance. Good balance would be when every server would have Pubs/Casual and Vet/Experienced players. But atm all Vet players in EU Stack on FoW and WSR. You see this every relink that the very same guilds/players transfer and stack again. This is very bad because it destroys the Mode for all. Imagine you are a Newbie and see that you get killed and rubbed 100 Times. This newbie will either leave the mode 4ever or join the bandwagon.

Anet could make some things. A: Limit the transfers u can do B: Close transferring after relink  C rewards for players which stick to the server. That could be more Gold, Titles,. more Pips and WXP.  D Hardcore variant a Debuff for players for several weeks with the title Traitor. 😛 (Why should they get rewarded for simply paying gems?)

And Anet should consider those server too when relink happens. They only look how many player & hours the server has but not the experience. Look at the Matchup WSR vs Elone vs Drakkar. What is that for a joke?  Both German servers get annihilated like nothing and both have a link. On NA it is the MAG Story.

I mean it is easier to join a strong team (paying for it)  instead to get better or build a strong team yourself atm. This is simply pay to win.

As I said before, Anet should build the system so that players who stay on the server are rewarded and not punished, which is the case at the moment. The stupid one is currently the one who just stays and that makes no sense.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Yunari.9065

[ArchonWing.9480]

Imagine the state of WvW is, and then imagine paying Anet regularly for it. 🙃

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Imagine the state of WvW is, and then imagine paying Anet regularly for it. 🙃

Side note though, its like people saying expansions are P2W. Want to see P2W, play World of Tanks or any of the series. Sure you can expect new elites to be OP in the beginning but the noodle bat will arrive. Ramen for all nom nom nom.

Edit: Shouldn't have mentioned ramen now I want some noodles with Ancho-Marsala. For those that like flavor and spice, Bravado has some quite tasty combos as a US side note.

Edited February 22, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
Food porn

[Mabi black.1824]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:10 PM, Chaba.5410 said:

Giving intelligent consideration to this topic, the first question I would ask is, is there really many groups of players who transfer punctually the week after the relinks?  The second question I would ask: is this really such a big problem as it is being made out to be?  There's no reason to subscribe to the assertions being made that players always move like locusts.

In NA there are guilds who move whenever relinks come up and they all do so for different reasons, most of which is related to changing up their content options.  Or if their server got overpopulated.  The most recent relink saw a lot of NA guilds moving to lower tiered servers.

To your first question I can say that in Europe there are many migrant players. and usually move in sizable groups. Sometimes smaller groups but coordinated with others and then you will see multiple groups transfer from different servers with the same destination. To your second question I can answer that it is not a problem in terms of competition, because now in WWW it does not exist, you are so used to broken matches that winning or losing you no longer care about anything (and this is quite a problem in a large-scale PvP game mode) in terms of fun and equal opportunities to get it, it's a problem. Because if you transfer and stack on one side the natural consequence is that you empty on the other side. The result is usually many against few, so some will tell you that there is nothing to fight and others will tell you that the conditions for fighting are impossible.

It's worth saying that WWW was designed for 24/7 so the conditions I described above must happen anyway, even in a perfect balance match. It should be something you see constantly changing and alternating, like a sine wave. First one team and then the other team. But in the specific case of our reasoning it does not happen. Because one team will be constantly and numerically superior to the other.

Today in WVW, with the mechanics currently in operation in Europe we can see servers that manage a stream ( K + D ) with a disparity that reaches 4 : 1 when players move in a particularly inspired way.

I mean 4 times more content, players, activities and fun. for 8 weeks. Yet players bought the same game. It's not that one pays 4 times more than another. Honestly these are not the questions you have to ask, maybe we should both ask ourselves how it is possible to be here to talk about this thing. to justify something unjustifiable.

[TheGrimm.5624]

25 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

To your first question I can say that in Europe there are many migrant players. and usually move in sizable groups. Sometimes smaller groups but coordinated with others and then you will see multiple groups transfer from different servers with the same destination. To your second question I can answer that it is not a problem in terms of competition, because now in WWW it does not exist, you are so used to broken matches that winning or losing you no longer care about anything (and this is quite a problem in a large-scale PvP game mode) in terms of fun and equal opportunities to get it, it's a problem. Because if you transfer and stack on one side the natural consequence is that you empty on the other side. The result is usually many against few, so some will tell you that there is nothing to fight and others will tell you that the conditions for fighting are impossible.

It's worth saying that WWW was designed for 24/7 so the conditions I described above must happen anyway, even in a perfect balance match. It should be something you see constantly changing and alternating, like a sine wave. First one team and then the other team. But in the specific case of our reasoning it does not happen. Because one team will be constantly and numerically superior to the other.

Today in WVW, with the mechanics currently in operation in Europe we can see servers that manage a stream ( K + D ) with a disparity that reaches 4 : 1 when players move in a particularly inspired way.

I mean 4 times more content, players, activities and fun. for 8 weeks. Yet players bought the same game. It's not that one pays 4 times more than another. Honestly these are not the questions you have to ask, maybe we should both ask ourselves how it is possible to be here to talk about this thing. to justify something unjustifiable.

Mabi, in NA we see some movements but not that noticeable. Usually a oh guild 'x' moved, that's weird kind of thing. This might a a region difference.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

44 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Mabi, in NA we see some movements but not that noticeable. Usually a oh guild 'x' moved, that's weird kind of thing. This might a a region difference.

It is a region difference for sure and it's wrecking our tiers constantly. I don't have the link on hand showing the changes in population but will try to find it for you.

The population calculations are also suspect, granted its anecdotal, however our server (Desolation) has been marked as full for practically ever. We no longer have a night crew as we did in the past and only a small morning crew. We essentially have at most 4 guilds (two of them community based). On our best day we can field 50 pugs and a closed guild squad of 30-40, on a bad day we field 40 pugs - yet are facing multiple squads of 20-30, 40+ from the same server on multiple maps at the same time. Those numbers are taken from Arc and rough counting and take guild tags into account, they're not the same groups over and over.

They need a better metric to measure activity and the flow Mabi mentioned should be it. Curtailing transfers needs it's own post.

[Absurd.2947]

You guys should look at it from a different perspective. 
There are maybe 70 players left in EU who play the game at an above average level. 

That doesn't even mean kitten, because the game is not hard. You just run a sensible build and press buttons.

Still, 70 people. You can hardly get 2 full EOTM squads of equally skilled players for bvb. And that's from ALL the EU servers. 

You're suggesting they should get punished for playing together. What else are they supposed to do? 
Spread across servers like some kind of kittening meta-pilgrims? Try to spread the gospel of squad comp, meta builds and about face movement? People have tried that.

For how many years people have tried teaching others how to play? No one will ever join those trainings, no one joins voice comms, no one swaps classes to fit what's needed. That's why people lose and complain about bandwagons. Guess what, if you're not willing to put in effort and learn then you don't deserve to win. 

The problem isn't the minority of skilled, veteran players. The problem is the vast majority of entitled rank 10k god of wvw turbo casuals. People who karma trains with map blobs during off-peak hours on their rangers and condi builds. Then they suddenly get farmed by half their numbers and they start blaming people. Because it's never their fault, right?

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Absurd.2947