Leap of Faith is Busted

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Leap Of Faith is fine.

Please stop nerf threads vs mediocre non-meta classes/builds.

Ty.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Leap Of Faith is fine.

Please stop nerf threads vs mediocre non-meta classes/builds.

Ty.

A low-CD mobility skill that can legitimately one-shot a squishy build (while healing the user and blinding the target, no less) is NOT fine.

 

If WB/guard is underperforming, by all means buff it. But do so responsibly so that its power and utility is spread throughout its kit, not overloaded on one skill.

 

Further, the whole "it's not meta so it's not a problem" argument is patently false. There are plenty of things in this game that are probably toxic/poorly designed and are bad for gameplay, even if they don't make an appearance in the MAT finals. Remember flame thrower scrapper? Turns out running around with perma superspeed and holding down "1" isn't great gameplay, even if it's not breaking the meta. Low CD one-shot are no different.

[semak.7481]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

A low-CD mobility skill that can legitimately one-shot a squishy build (while healing the user and blinding the target, no less) is NOT fine.

^This.

For the confused folks, comment below is not for CTS, wink-wink

They should "accidentally" invent a bug that reduce all ranger damage by 50% in all competitive modes and leave it like that for a year and ship a package of ppl who keep posting "Its fine, ranger is fine like this".

May be then this special someone learn the importance of bug fixing

Edited April 6, 2023 by semak.7481

[Sereath.1428]

Please, fix the bug before doing anything else with Guardian ANET.
(PvP and WvW using PvE coefficients)

Edited April 6, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

A low-CD mobility skill that can legitimately one-shot a squishy build (while healing the user and blinding the target, no less) is NOT fine.

I play the glassiest possible Soulbeast build and I've never been one-shot by Leap Of Faith. In fact, I've never noticed significantly large damage coming off of it. The only large sudden damage I see rolling off of Guardians is GS2, DH traps, True Shot, and the attacks on Willbender that make loud slam sound effects upon striking.

Maybe I'm just not getting hit by Leap Of Faith. If that's the case, the attack deserves to be impactful if someone can actually land that slow massively telegraphed strike with no CCs to lockdown assist. Leap Of Faith is easy to dodge boys. there is a super elongated very distinct jump animation that doesn't land the strike until the end of the jump, and the Guard doesn't even have CCs to lock you down. Stop dodge rolling autos and start saving those dodge rolls for big strikes that are easily noticeable.

8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

If WB/guard is underperforming, by all means buff it. But do so responsibly so that its power and utility is spread throughout its kit, not overloaded on one skill.

All Guardian attacks are supposed to be overloaded, that's why they're overloaded. This is a class that cannot survive unless it maintains hard offensive pressure. If you compare what a Virtuoso or Thief or Ele or War can do in terms of survival without attacking while only kiting and running, to a Guardian who is not attacking who is kiting and running, obviously the Guardian is dead meat without its weapon kits. But the Virt Thief Ele War can actually roll around and run forever and not die, without ever needing to attack at all. This is why Guardian attacks have bloated damage, they need it. Their powerful offense is their defense when they are running DPS oriented builds.

If you start nerfing Guardian offense on what is already a mediocre class/build, it'll fall into complete unviability.

8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Further, the whole "it's not meta so it's not a problem" argument is patently false. There are plenty of things in this game that are probably toxic/poorly designed and are bad for gameplay, even if they don't make an appearance in the MAT finals. Remember flame thrower scrapper? Turns out running around with perma superspeed and holding down "1" isn't great gameplay, even if it's not breaking the meta. Low CD one-shot are no different.

Yes I agree, but people in this thread are crying and crying about how POWERFUL Leap Of Faith is, which is ridiculous. If they want to talk about mechanical rearrangements with where DPS is allocated, ok. But straight up calling for nerfs because LOF is overpowered is bologna.

What's being complained about here isn't even relevant as a real problem when set next to things like recent Catalyst dominance, Virtuoso over-defensing, or the hot debate centered around Scrapper's current performance.

 

I mean usually in these debates even if I don't agree with the OP, I can at least see where the discussion is and why it is happening. Like even if I don't agree with something being OP, there was at least a time where I noticed the topic of the discussion myself and had to stop and question: "Wait, is this OP? Is this too strong? Is this mechanical jank?" But with Leap Of Faith, not once in almost 11 years have I ever looked at that skill and had to wonder if it was too strong or too annoying in any way.

I just don't see and can't feel in-game, where the root of this debate is even coming from.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Hotride.2187]

2 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Leap Of Faith is easy to dodge boys. there is a super elongated very distinct jump animation that doesn't land the strike until the end of the jump

Its actually a leap and those dont connect a lot of the time for various reasons. Target had swiftness/superspeed, target was pulled or pushed, desync, target teleported 5 pixels in any direciton, target moved away before the final animation and so on. It requires a lot of practice to recognize situations where the leap will land (assuming you don't get random blinded/CCed).

And in the end its a guard player, you know they'll spam their skills so kiting is easy. I dont remember fighting anyone good using a GS.

8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

A low-CD mobility skill that can legitimately one-shot a squishy build (while healing the user and blinding the target, no less) is NOT fine.

If WB/guard is underperforming, by all means buff it. But do so responsibly so that its power and utility is spread throughout its kit, not overloaded on one skill.

Hah.

The only real argument I've read so far is that it has a bug and its using pve coefficients.

[shion.2084]

9 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I play the glassiest possible Soulbeast build and I've never been one-shot by Leap Of Faith. In fact, I've never noticed significantly large damage coming off of it. The only large sudden damage I see rolling off of Guardians is GS2, DH traps, True Shot, and the attacks on Willbender that make loud slam sound effects upon striking.

Maybe I'm just not getting hit by Leap Of Faith. If that's the case, the attack deserves to be impactful if someone can actually land that slow massively telegraphed strike with no CCs to lockdown assist. Leap Of Faith is easy to dodge boys. there is a super elongated very distinct jump animation that doesn't land the strike until the end of the jump, and the Guard doesn't even have CCs to lock you down. Stop dodge rolling autos and start saving those dodge rolls for big strikes that are easily noticeable.

All Guardian attacks are supposed to be overloaded, that's why they're overloaded. This is a class that cannot survive unless it maintains hard offensive pressure. If you compare what a Virtuoso or Thief or Ele or War can do in terms of survival without attacking while only kiting and running, to a Guardian who is not attacking who is kiting and running, obviously the Guardian is dead meat without its weapon kits. But the Virt Thief Ele War can actually roll around and run forever and not die, without ever needing to attack at all. This is why Guardian attacks have bloated damage, they need it. Their powerful offense is their defense when they are running DPS oriented builds.

If you start nerfing Guardian offense on what is already a mediocre class/build, it'll fall into complete unviability.

Yes I agree, but people in this thread are crying and crying about how POWERFUL Leap Of Faith is, which is ridiculous. If they want to talk about mechanical rearrangements with where DPS is allocated, ok. But straight up calling for nerfs because LOF is overpowered is bologna.

What's being complained about here isn't even relevant as a real problem when set next to things like recent Catalyst dominance, Virtuoso over-defensing, or the hot debate centered around Scrapper's current performance.

 

I mean usually in these debates even if I don't agree with the OP, I can at least see where the discussion is and why it is happening. Like even if I don't agree with something being OP, there was at least a time where I noticed the topic of the discussion myself and had to stop and question: "Wait, is this OP? Is this too strong? Is this mechanical jank?" But with Leap Of Faith, not once in almost 11 years have I ever looked at that skill and had to wonder if it was too strong or too annoying in any way.

I just don't see and can't feel in-game, where the root of this debate is even coming from.

It is pretty fricken hard to chase down a will bender who wants to run.   At least for my class.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

8 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

The only real argument I've read so far is that it has a bug and its using pve coefficients.

That's my understanding, too (I mentioned it in the OP). If so, just fix the bug. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

45 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

That's my understanding, too (I mentioned it in the OP). If so, just fix the bug. 

That is the whole crux. There is a bug. Fix the bug, but for Dwayna's sake just fix the bug and not nerf something else at the same time.

[Blackthunder.8679]

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That is the whole crux. There is a bug. Fix the bug, but for Dwayna's sake just fix the bug and not nerf something else at the same time.

 

But... it's Anet we're talking about. They'll do a BsW move and instead of fixing the bug (stab cd on DT) they'll just nerf everything else.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

 

But... it's Anet we're talking about. They'll do a BsW move and instead of fixing the bug (stab cd on DT) they'll just nerf everything else.

Or ignore the bug entirely and instead nerf the GS trait.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

~ "We fixed an issue where there weren't any issues. New bugs have been added to the game."

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:33 PM, apharma.3741 said:

It also doesn't have a CD on the teleport back so it usually will start the leap and teleport you straight back mid leap 🙂
Oh and it's shorter range, doesn't immobilise or grant swiftness and the return is shorter range and doesn't cure a condition compared to the skill it's copied from 🙂

and the orginal skill is so bad that its still a better version, actually cracks me up.

[Sereath.1428]

The confuse emojis on asking ANET to fix a known bug, bruh.
Ahahaha, imagine wanting to balance and design a class around a powerful bug instead of addressing other weaknesses.

Edited April 7, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[ArthurDent.9538]

10 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

The confuse emojis on asking ANET to fix a known bug, bruh.
Ahahaha, imagine wanting to balance and design a class around a powerful bug instead of addressing other weaknesses.

The thing is, the bug in question could very reasonably not be a bug at all. All that is happening is one skill is doing a bit more damage than intended but could easily be boosted to legitimately do similar damage in a balance pass where they "fix the bug" by saying the current bugged value is the intended one. The question is: would reducing the power coefficient back to its current intended value actually improve the game? I would argue no, it would simply make some borderline competitive builds no longer competitive.

[Kuma.1503]

On 4/7/2023 at 7:45 AM, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

The confuse emojis on asking ANET to fix a known bug, bruh.
Ahahaha, imagine wanting to balance and design a class around a powerful bug instead of addressing other weaknesses.

In a perfect world: Anet fix the bug. Give some love to DPS  guardian in other areas where appropriate. 

In reality: Anet fix the bug. Consider maybe taking a pass on guardian at some indeterminate point in the future. If at all. 

 

People want to keep the bug because it makes less viable builds more playable in the meantime. Fixing it wouldn't improve the game in any meaningful way. Leap of Faith is a very telegraphed skill that's easy to dodge, so having it hit hard is fine. 

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Leap of Faith is a very telegraphed skill that's easy to dodge, so having it hit hard is fine. 

 

Based on this logic, every telegraphed skill should be hitting for 10k+.  Savage Leap, Aura slicer, Swoop, Death's Charge, Dragon Slash, et al. all say hi. If we're gonna go down this route, let's at least be consistent about it.

 

Further, LoF is a1/2s cast; most other leaps (like those listed above) are 3/4s or longer. So sure, it's telegraphed, but it's 33% less telegraphed than a bunch of skills that do way less damage (and don't blind and heal, either).

 

Further still, people act like simply because something is telegraphed it's ok for it to have ridiculously strong effects. That argument might work if PvP were just about 1v1s where you can focus 100% of your attention on one target, but that's not the case. In a real match, there's so much visual vomit that it's often hard to see every single telegraph that's happening, and that's not even considering getting blown up by an attack that comes from off screen.  Good balance/game design takes that into consideration.

 

[Kuma.1503]

17 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Based on this logic, every telegraphed skill should be hitting for 10k+.  Savage Leap, Aura slicer, Swoop, Death's Charge, Dragon Slash, et al. all say hi. If we're gonna go down this route, let's at least be consistent about it.

 

That logical follow through makes sense in a vacuum sure. 

But we don't live in a vacuum. Guardians want to keep this because GS guardian as a whole is underperforming, and this gives it a welcome boost. 

Making a skill like Swoop or Aura Slicer hit for 10k is ridiculous when GS ranger and Dagger SpB is already meta to begin with. Not to mention SpB has much better CC to set up that 10k hit than your average GS guardian. And they have two dagger leaps that look similar at first glance.

So long as the guardian is forced to build glassy so they're equally vunlerable to blowing up from a stray hit in teamfights, I have no problem with it. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Balsa.3951]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:12 PM, Balsa.3951 said:

thats why i ask pve or pvp

pvp thats 1 shot some classes almost

since i get confused reactions from the usual crowd. this topic was posted in pve before. and yes some classes have 11 k healthplool. hope that helped ur confused mind

hello mbs

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Balsa.3951