WvW Suggestion: Allow Tome of Knowledge to increase WvW Rank.

[SGao.4982]

36 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Name 1 which is in the same situation as Tomes of Knowledge.

Bloodstone Dust, Dragonite Ore & Empyreal Fragments. More were given to the player than they could spend. They've since added items that always players to exchange them for different loot.
Or If we are talking more broad additions, They added Faction Provisioner to the game. This gave additional usage to materials that have been in the game since launch.
Globs of Ectoplasm were very limited on what you could do with them when they were first out. They were mainly used for salaving luck and dust but they have since given them a lot more usage with a big one being Ectogambling

 

 

43 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I'm making this argument because that's the limit to your observation of this item and its implementation. You lack the deeper consideration of how reward structures work or are designed or are willfully ignorant of them because you can't see past the short term goal you have in your sight.

Why not make WvW ranks purchasable with gold? It is acquired via WvW. Many players have an abundance of it with little need to use it. The same arguments you use to argue for the changes to ToK apply to gold as well, or other materials. In case of ToK it's even just a matter of a few mouse clicks, given how they can get converted to gold.

lmao, That is absolutely not the case. You are now being disingenuous with your arguments. I have stated the issue with having an abidance of Tomes with lack of ways to spend them. I've made this point several times already and you just keep ignoring it. The "short term goal" as you are suggesting I have is that there is a very limiting way to spend an item you get near a stack of per week.

 

Why on earth are you suggesting to buy ranks with gold? To indulge another strawman of yours, the reason you wouldn't buy WvW ranks with gold is that gold already has plenty of uses. It's already used to trade with other players or purchasing items for vendors, you can exchange it for gems in the trading post. No one will ever have the issue of having too much gold with nothing to use it for.

It is a completely different comparison of items to make. There is no way you sat at your desk trying to make that argument in good faith xD

 

53 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

True. Repeating your points though without actually taking into account what was said hardly makes them any better or stronger. Again, the reward structures do not intend for ToK to give WxP. I doubt that will change in the future.

Words cannot begin to describe how beautiful that statement is coming from you, Especially after this post and having to repeat myself 5 or 6 times on a question in hopes you'll read it one of the times xD Your projection is strong. haha

[SGao.4982]

39 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

Alternatively, they can add another vendor that exchanges Tomes of Knowledge for  Box of WvW Supplies. With a daily/weekly cap of course. That way you could also limit the 'abuse' and add RNG to the system, which makes it a gamble.

I really like this idea!

 

33 minutes ago, Ryuk.6840 said:

Also there could be a new track achiv that invalidates the 10k rank Title (if you spent one tome) and you are eligible for a new that cost 10k normal rank + 3k tomes (13k lvl max)

 

Edit:Or doing the "heavy weekly objectives" (capturing towers , not camps) , allows you to spent some tomes on yourself.

Edit2: Or playing after you have completed your weeklies , open  some "spaces" for tomes to be used (randomly "locked stones-boxes" could drop , that need tome to be unlocked and offer either lvl ,, tickets or gold)

This could be cool.

They could even do a "Prestige" title. You get to 10k normally, no tomes, and then you can choose to reset your rank back to 0, maybe have a icon displayed next to your name to show what Prestige you are at. If you choose to reset your rank from 10k back to 0, tomes would work on Prestige levels.

[Dopamine.6324]

tome clicking wxp or repairing SM wall or eotm train to max rank?
tbh all are as kitten, but when something is good it is needed to abuse maximum

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dopamine.6324

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

Bloodstone Dust, Dragonite Ore & Empyreal Fragments. More were given to the player than they could spend. They've since added items that always players to exchange them for different loot.

Those 3 materials where given additional uses, true. None of those changes meet even remotely any similarity with Tomes of Knowledge.

2 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

Or If we are talking more broad additions, They added Faction Provisioner to the game. This gave additional usage to materials that have been in the game since launch.

Tomes of Knowledge (aka Spirit Shards) are no material sink. They are a material. They are the fundamental opposite in design to provisioner tokens which are a strait up only a material sink.

2 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

Globs of Ectoplasm were very limited on what you could do with them when they were first out. They were mainly used for salaving luck and dust but they have since given them a lot more usage with a big one being Ectogambling

Again, the usage of ectoplasm was expanded upon over time but only to compensate for the increased supply (also Luck and salvaging ectos for it was a later addition, there was no Luck stat at launch). This hardly affected the reward structure of other game modes.

2 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

lmao, That is absolutely not the case. You are now being disingenuous with your arguments. I have stated the issue with having an abidance of Tomes with lack of ways to spend them. I've made this point several times already and you just keep ignoring it. The "short term goal" as you are suggesting I have is that there is a very limiting way to spend an item you get near a stack of per week.

No, you not making use of your Tomes of Knowledge is NOT the same as them having no use. There is a reason why most high end traders are spending money to acquire OTHER players spirit shards en mass. It's because spirit shards are one of THE limiting factors in this games economy.

There are TONS of ways to spend them (unless you have absolutely no use for additional wealth in game), you simply choose not to.

2 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

Why on earth are you suggesting to buy ranks with gold? To indulge another strawman of yours, the reason you wouldn't buy WvW ranks with gold is that gold already has plenty of uses. It's already used to trade with other players or purchasing items for vendors, you can exchange it for gems in the trading post. No one will ever have the issue of having too much gold with nothing to use it for.

It is a completely different comparison of items to make. There is no way you sat at your desk trying to make that argument in good faith xD

But it checks the same check-marks. The only difference is: you are making use of the gold because it is easier to convert while you are intentionally not making use of your ToK and then making bogus claims or demands around your inability or unwillingness to make use of them.

If you were to convert those 3k Tomes of Knowledge (and who knows how many spirit shards you are having sitting in your wallet) into gold, you'd have a very different valuation of gold than you do now. There are players who are sitting on as much gold as you do on spirit shards with nothing to do. To them, it would absolutely make sense to be able to buy WvW ranks.

That's what makes your point disingenuous. You are arguing that ToK have no use and need more uses which is strait up not true. You then followup with something which is at best problematic and at worst a severe hit to the reward structure to 2 games modes because it SUITS YOUR AGENDA.

I get that there is nothing some players would love more than to rush through their skirmish tickets, LI, WvW ranks, Spvp ranks, mastery points, etc. you name it, but most often these ideas are NOT in the best interest of the game or mode they are made to.

I gave an example where I personally think this could have made an interesting addition (back when introduced, as an alternative between material and WxP bonus with progression balanced around that) and I've explained why such a retroactive change now makes no sense.

EDIT: on that note, the idea to allow players to speed up to acquire the necessary amount of WvW masteries with say Tomes of Knowledge could be interesting from a balance perspective. Then again, I have no developer data on retention rates for new players who suddenly have no objective for character growth, so I can't say if this would end up net good or bad for the mode.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

Anet has made getting skirmish tickets easier twice already, with the new bonus ones counting as a third. Wait, they also added +1 pip to every rank as well, well whatever. How many people have enough tomes to accelerate their skirmish track pips +1, +2, hell maybe even +3 or more? This is kind of the point as your wxp rank directly correlates to legendary acquisition. 

 

They had a reason for removing the thimbles of wxp from the laurel vendor in wvw all those years ago.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

Though I do like this suggestion, it created better reading than most threads here recently!

[TheGrimm.5624]

Even before the OSR changes I don't think this is needed. I say this even as I have guild mate that is only weeks old into the game and have been watching and listening as they entered WvW as an up level as most of us did years ago. The ToKs were to help to level 80 for the first toon and then to instant level 80s for each toon after and its still working. Skills being front loaded helps more than they did then as well and the skills tree has been nerfed over time. Add to that there is nothing to spend the points on over 1226, which is a different topic that has come up in the past that we won't linger into in this thread. Need to check on the Warclaw if they are missing a step else still seems a little slower than expected to acquire. tl; dr: I think the OSR system will do for newer players what you are looking for the ToKs to do so it would be redundent at this point. Now more options for spirit shards might be a different story for currency exchanges.

[Xenesis.6389]

13 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

I wouldn't mind if they turned the Tome of Knowledge into a Tome of WvW for the WvW Rewards and I had to start from nothing. Right now I just get more than I could ever use per week.

Of course you wouldn't mind, nor would any player, because it's all benefit to the player and not the game. I shouldn't even be making this post and just shut up about it. But as usual people don't bother to delve deeper into their idea and see what the problems might be, and what the consequences to the changes would be. If you have masteries turn into instant complete you might as well not even have a mastery point system and just have all the bonuses to the your character from the start. You would be taking away a long term goals from wvw players.

13 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

What are you talking about getting everything handed to them? You get an abundance of these Tome's by playing WvW. The 2 ways you get them in WvW is from Dungeon reward tracks & Chest of the Mists. My suggestion was to take the items you get from playing WvW and put them back into your WvW rank. No handouts, just playing the game..

You can get tomes from a bunch of different bags in pve, including buying more tomes in battle for lion's arch... so all pve players would have to do is get like 5 in pve, then use it to get chest of the mist, which also guarantees 5 more tomes, rinse and repeat.... Well congratulations to the pve player, they're now wvw veterans without even spending time in wvw.

Despite that even if anet does bother to implement a change like this, it's more likely they would make the current tomes obsolete, and auto convert them into spirit shards, and introduce new tomes for the wxp rank for the new system, to reset the global stockpile. Take a wild guess why they add new currency for every new content, because they don't want you using old supply on new things. They might even just nerf the tomes off rewards tracks(there's people sitting with a boatload of reward track potions too) and chest of the mist so people aren't getting a ton of them anymore, because it would be the simplest thing to do to "fix" this complaint.

No handouts? you're handing out wvw mastery points, you're handing out a ton of rank up chest of the mist which have chances to drop ascended and exotics including precursors, you're handing out ranks that give the additional pips, which means they will get through earning wvw legendaries in less time per week through way less play than a veteran did.

Not every currency needs to have a multitude of uses, they are put into the game to serve a specific purpose, tomes are there to level up your pve side, to provide spirit shards, that's it. If you don't like staring at the stacks in the bank, or don't want to convert to spirit shards then feel free to delete them and move on.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[ArchonWing.9480]

It is inevitable that you will outgrow certain items in this game once you've played enough, such as full legendaries not needing ascended mats, for example.  You're not the only player in the game. It's like how WvWers have too transmutation charges; that doesn't mean anything for all gw2 players.

It is extremely unreasonable as an established player to ask more from what is literally a leveling item for new accounts. It is fine to get annoyed that they take up space in your inventory, but there are some easy ways to get rid of them and hoarding them is your own problem.

Also Spirit banners. 3k ToK isn't even a full stack of Spirit Banners so get going. They could buff those a little bit to gain reward track though.

Edited March 12, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Sugar Min.5834]

Maybe what TC needs is a Tomb of Knowledge Globbler 🤷‍♀️

Edited March 12, 2023 by Min Min.9368

[RaveOnYou.2819]

i dont know, it will be unfair to people allready achieve to 10k. but it can be used until 1226 to full the mastery points.

[blp.3489]

Perhaps an alternative would be to provide a WvW equivalent for the way fractal, strike, and raid currencies, plus a spirit shard, can be used to buy a limited number of mystic coins and mystic clovers each week?   You could solve two complaints in one go by allowing people to use 1 spirit shard + XX claim tickets to buy a mystic coin, a limit of 10/week, and 2 ectos + 2 mystic coins + 2 spirit shards + 3xXX claim tickets to buy a mystic clover, limit 5 per week as per the purchase options for fractals, strikes, and raids.

XX could be something like 50.  Given that WvW is a cornerstone of GW2 shouldn't it have an equivalent purchase option to what fractals, strikes, and raids have?

[Dopamine.6324]

2 hours ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

i dont know, it will be unfair to people allready achieve to 10k. but it can be used until 1226 to full the mastery points.

like now its unfair we cant eotm ktrain like current 10k rankers did?

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, Dopamine.6324 said:

like now its unfair we cant eotm ktrain like current 10k rankers did?

The amount of ktrain happening on borders over the last few years was more than enough to overcompensate for past EotM ktrains (not to mention the increase in access to WxP buffs which where added to the game since then).

Players pretend as though ktrain in EotM got others to 10k in hours. It still took months if not longer.

Talking of months: FYI, if you bothered to check gw2mists for WvW ranks per week which some players are pushing atm, you'd see that some are pushing 300-400 WvW ranks per week EASY (current top player this week is at 320, not counting today since the API is always 1 day late, and this week isn't even over).

But sure, let's keep bringing up this "instant" 10k WvW rank EotM farm as if it was the only way players played this mode.

Good news: if you want 400+ WvW ranks per week, you can do that RIGHT NOW in game. You just have to commit 10h-12h+ per day. Just like those EotM ktrain players did over 7 years ago.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Dopamine.6324]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The amount of ktrain happening on borders over the last few years was more than enough to overcompensate for past EotM ktrains (not to mention the increase in access to WxP buffs which where added to the game since then).

Players pretend as though ktrain in EotM got others to 10k in hours. It still took months if not longer.

Talking of months: FYI, if you bothered to check gw2mists for WvW ranks per week which some players are pushing atm, you'd see that some are pushing 300-400 WvW ranks per week EASY (current top player this week is at 320, not counting today since the API is always 1 day late, and this week isn't even over).

But sure, let's keep bringing up this "instant" 10k WvW rank EotM farm as if it was the only way players played this mode.

Good news: if you want 400+ WvW ranks per week, you can do that RIGHT NOW in game. You just have to commit 10h-12h+ per day. Just like those EotM ktrain players did over 7 years ago.

and you know that only way those ppl accomplish that many ranks is by repairing T3 SM walls every 3min? and this only became viable thanks to new participation rewards and bandwagon, so only few servers or maybe just 1 can get into this insane wxp farm... guess thats totally fine

[Jobber.6348]

9 hours ago, Dopamine.6324 said:

like now its unfair we cant eotm ktrain like current 10k rankers did?

EBG Ktraining, especially with the new on-objective capture XP rewards added with recent WvW update. You get 800 ~ 3000 XP based on how upgraded the objective was. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Dopamine.6324 said:

and you know that only way those ppl accomplish that many ranks is by repairing T3 SM walls every 3min? and this only became viable thanks to new participation rewards and bandwagon, so only few servers or maybe just 1 can get into this insane wxp farm... guess thats totally fine

 

Not actually true. I did a personal test run last matchup. On average I played around 3 hours of WvW for 6 of 7 days of that week. I gained aproximately 130 WvW ranks. I did NOT 24×7 SM walls (in fact I didn't camp SM.at all, I did repair if we passed by).

SM repairing certainly does grant a ton of WxP, but it's not the only high WxP yield post reward update. Ktraining or even better, running over the enemy blob with your own blob yields also very good results.

So, stop making excuses and accept your personal unwillingness to invest just as heavily time as others into the mode for comparable WxP results.

Again, after years of WxP buff increaes and especially with the new reward system in place now, it's realy time to let this boogymonster of over 7 years ago rest.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 3/12/2023 at 2:53 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

But as usual people don't bother to delve deeper into their idea and see what the problems might be

Have you ever done that?

[Xenesis.6389]

3 hours ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

Have you ever done that?

Have you ever done that?

[solemn.9670]

WvW rank is for doing WvW not pve

[neven.3785]

I do not think it should ever be a tome / level.  But i do believe it should be able to be cashed out at the Provisioner via a tab.  Some rough ideas:

1. Guild Siege
2. Box of WvW Supplies (this is where you can get wxp from)
3. Potion of WvW Rewards, or maybe a lesser version of it... (this will also help lessen the time Gift of Battle people are in WvW taking up queue slots afk farming a camp)

As for calling max rank a prestige rank... thats a bit lol.  There are very few who actually earned it, notably daily pugmanders in active time slots.  Most who have it did it the cheese way of kill trading in EoTM/OS before it was nerfed, or they spent countless hours in empty time zones K-training and actively avoiding enemy groups who are doing just the same.    Im sure there are plenty who've also afk trebbed from SMC for countless hours to get up there as well.  I doubt that was the vision they had for wvw when they made the game.
Since Launch, I'm averaged at 3.5 hrs/day, Almost entirely spent in wvw, on active maps for the most part.  I am almost rank 5000, many people i've played with are +/- 1500 range of me, and they too are wvw players exclusively throughout the years.  I'm not arguing that we should be max rank, just that the prestige of the achievement has long ago been tainted, so that argument is moot.

Edited March 14, 2023 by neven.3785

[Abjurer.9302]

I average 3.3 hours/day and reached 10k rank in December of 2020.  While playing I also saw enemy players level up their rank to 10k around me in WvW.  I think the vast majority of 10k rank players have gained their rank by playing WvW.  The game has been out for 10 years.

 

I did not play EotM much.  I think that comparing Supply Generator captures to Supply Camp captures is the best way to compare WvW vs EotM time.  My Supply Generator captures is 360 and Supply Camp captures is 22,144.  So I have spent the vast majority of my time in WvW.

 

Are players that are having trouble gaining rank not using Birthday Boosters on their WvW characters?  I have 13 characters and that is enough to give me an endless supply of Birthday Boosters that I can never work through.

[Bristingr.5034]

On 3/11/2023 at 9:08 AM, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

 

Well, the advantage of skipping many levels. Rank 10K comes with a prestige title. I guess that someone who leveled it the hard way won't be very happy if their hard work gets devalued by other players using stacks of tomes to achieve the same.

You must have missed the update recently where we get WXP out of the wazzu just for defending now. WXP is worthless after Lvl 1250. Nobody plays for the levels by that point, we play for the BAGS and to ensure our Slave-I mean Jade Bot is actively giving us our bonus loot.

[Eclipsiste.3251]

On 3/11/2023 at 6:56 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Whatever benefits newer players is whats more important for the long-term survival of the game mode.

Making all long-term goals easier or short -term won't do any good to the the survival of the game mode.

People will come, play, get everything they wanted 12 times faster than before, have no reason to stay for the super boring zerg-oriented gameplay Anet has been pushing, and leave.

Every game mode needs long-term goals to keep players motivated. Anet is going full on easy mode for newbies in WvW since the Steam release, and the major effect I've seen is lots of experienced WvWers getting fed up and leaving...

Other game modes don't get dumbed down like WvW has been

[misterman.1530]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:54 AM, SGao.4982 said:

I have about 3000 Tome of Knowledge in the bank and I get more every week playing WvW.

I have more spirit shards than I'll ever need & more characters max that I can play. I have no other use for them.

 

It would be great if we could spend the Tome of Knowledge on our WvW Rank.

Just use the shards to buy Mystic Crystals. I used them in the forge for Mystic Clovers.