Malus.2184 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said: Now watch half of wvw "roamers" explode cause you want to take their broken builds away. Only half? That implies that the other half is reasonable 😛 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malus.2184 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) On 3/21/2023 at 7:48 AM, Hotride.2187 said: Totally. That is why every harb runs cele. But the issue is not cele. They trait as you describe and run full zerk and they are just unstoppable, right? The issue is Cele. The Toughness adds up, especially when combined with the Vitality and Concentration that allows for important boons to be upheld for longer. A Protection that lasts for 5 seconds compared to 4 seconds makes for a large difference, especially if the cooldown of the Protection ability is small since that additional second lower the opportunity window by an equal amount to the increase. It's incorrect to think of this as an increase in the duration of a boon only, it also makes them vulnerable for a shorter time. If they somehow can source Alac this combination is nigh unstoppable as the window of opportunity becomes so increasingly small that you have to be able to kill them in a short while or else they'll just style all over you. For example, a four-second Prot on a ten-second CD (hyperbole I know, it's just for the sake of the argument) becomes a five-second Protection with a 25% increase. The window of opportunity is at the same time reduced from six seconds before Protection can be reapplied to five. Minstrel stats comes with almost no offensive capabilities, Celestial comes with a full combination of both offensive and defensive stats. If Celestial was removed I think a lot of the problematic roaming builds would become much less of a problem, and if they still were then looking at the traits and skills would be an option. Edited March 30, 2023 by Malus.2184 5 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 12 hours ago, Malus.2184 said: If Celestial was removed I think a lot of the problematic roaming builds would become much less of a problem, and if they still were then looking at the traits and skills would be an option. Has been commented a lot, no point in discussing it more. I moved to conquest, in wvw I mainly AFK while doing something else. With the recent boonrip nerfs the entire mode has become a bigger joke than even pve. Small scale has been pretty bad for quite some time, large scale is heading in that direction too. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Ya Yeah.7381 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Harbinger IS OP, BUT so is Wilbender, Catalyst and Untamed and that are just the new E specs, there are a lot of broken builds in WvW that nobody cares about at all. Either that, or they are just unaware, but I would be surprised if the balance team were that slow on the uptake. But, the boons have been off the chain for a while, and nothing has been done to help that. I would say it is safe to say," WvW is not a mode that is a priority", not even close. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kooldude.7260 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Cele harbinger is beyond broken and is basically pay to win ezmode for new players who use their level 80 booster gear. Disgusting game. 4 3 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Celes stupid now, for some reason they thought adding boon and condi duration to it without nerfing the stats it gives was a great idea. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Harbinger, Willbender, Catalyst, have basically been busted in WvW since EoD released. All three have seen major nerfs in PvP that were not applied in WvW. Why? Vindicator and Mech were also busted but adequately toned down. Maybe the solution is to finally give in and play these carry builds, shortly after which Anet will suddenly address them. Historically how it's worked. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyBat.9034 Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said: Harbinger, Willbender, Catalyst, have basically been busted in WvW since EoD released. All three have seen major nerfs in PvP that were not applied in WvW. Why? Vindicator and Mech were also busted but adequately toned down. Maybe the solution is to finally give in and play these carry builds, shortly after which Anet will suddenly address them. Historically how it's worked. That's already happening. Those classes are by far the most popular right now for small-scale WvW. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 On 3/25/2023 at 8:48 AM, Crazy.6029 said: Harbinger IS OP, BUT so is Wilbender, Catalyst and Untamed and that are just the new E specs, there are a lot of broken builds in WvW that nobody cares about at all. Either that, or they are just unaware, but I would be surprised if the balance team were that slow on the uptake. But, the boons have been off the chain for a while, and nothing has been done to help that. I would say it is safe to say," WvW is not a mode that is a priority", not even close. Since you are the first person to mentioned Untamed in this topic, I'm curious--what's an Untamed build that comes even close to the Harbinger build being discussed? Also, as said in another topic--anet ignores smallscale for WvW. As soon as most learn this the better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedievalThings.5417 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said: Harbinger, Willbender, Catalyst, have basically been busted in WvW since EoD released. All three have seen major nerfs in PvP that were not applied in WvW. Why? Vindicator and Mech were also busted but adequately toned down. Maybe the solution is to finally give in and play these carry builds, shortly after which Anet will suddenly address them. Historically how it's worked. What's funny is there are things that have been around much longer, that are just as broken,, but people just accept them because they have existed the whole time. One example is the 3 dodges on daredevil. I'm sure anet will get around to "adjusting" the others at launch of the next expac. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 On 3/24/2023 at 4:46 PM, Malus.2184 said: Only half? That implies that the other half is reasonable 😛 Nah most of those are playing glass Sic 'Em Soulbeast proclaiming it's the pinnacle of skill. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewlcl.8176 Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 6 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said: What's funny is there are things that have been around much longer, that are just as broken,, but people just accept them because they have existed the whole time. One example is the 3 dodges on daredevil. I'm sure anet will get around to "adjusting" the others at launch of the next expac. They might take the daredevil dodge and give it to the vindicator. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 How long has harbinger been op in wvw? Cause I hate to harbinger...sorry Necro a thread 😉 but here I am close to a year after this has been posted and what's been changed? Actually curious. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyBat.9034 Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 21 minutes ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said: How long has harbinger been op in wvw? Cause I hate to harbinger...sorry Necro a thread 😉 but here I am close to a year after this has been posted and what's been changed? Actually curious. What changed? It got more buffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Harbinger pretty much only exist in WvW small scale content so it's probably very low on the devs priority list for nerfs. If it were up to me, Harbinger would have long gone through a full rework of it's traitline and elixirs would have all been put on a diet (They are excessively bloated they need to shed a few effects). 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmouse.2163 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I've roamed on every class except rev and ranger. Harbinger is the strongest build I've ever played, I'm not even good at necro but I don't have to be. I've won fights just by going to shroud and autoattacking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burial.1958 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Cele Harby is a Spec you play when u had a lobotomy. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 1/25/2024 at 1:10 PM, EnderzShadow.2506 said: How long has harbinger been op in wvw? Cause I hate to harbinger...sorry Necro a thread 😉 but here I am close to a year after this has been posted and what's been changed? Actually curious. I won't fault you for the necro but I will joke you, but isn't this a Tuesday post? Willie? Is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urd.8306 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 On 3/19/2023 at 7:05 PM, SleepyBat.9034 said: I'm wondering. How long will anet wait until they nerf Harbinger? After everyone quits? Nobody wants to fight a build so abusively overpowered as the Curses/Death Magic/Harbinger build that so easily wins against every other build in the game. This build has a near-perfect defense against all power damage thanks to the high Weakness application, permanent Protection, and +600 Toughness from Death Magic, and the condition cleanses from Shrowded Removal and Spectral Walk when paired with Superior Rune of Anti-Toxin are off the charts. And that's just the defensive part of the build! The number of conditions harbingers apply is simply overkill. Especially considering they have access to permanent quickness allowing them to spam their skills at such a rate that you cannot get any skills off before being overloaded with conditions. This build is so broken that I'm getting farmed by brand-new WvW players while running some of the strongest builds other classes have and to be honest it's sapping the fun out of WvW and makes me want to quit (cept I won't because I enjoy the combat system too much so I'ma write a forum post instead). Edit: I should probably mention that in addition to all that Harbinger also has the choice to trait into -30% incoming condition damage (it stacks with Resolution btw). Why should they nerf it? They let thieves run their S+ tier since release of the game. 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 3/21/2023 at 9:37 PM, Silinsar.6298 said: I'd argue any of the "strongest builds other classes have" (according to OP) should have something that can exploit Harb's weaknesses. Be it a lot of avoidance / sustain, mobility, CC or overwhelming damage. Not every build has everything, but every good build should have something it can utilize against Harb. And according to OP's signature they are maining Holosmith. I won't deny that Harb is strong in a straight up 1v1 in a whitebox scenario, but a lot of what people are writing here is over-exaggerated and doesn't address that for all its strengths, Harb has downsides too. No Harbinger is disgusting op. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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