Isn't it time for LWS2 to become permanently free?

[Fleabite.7528]

It's almost nine years since Living World Season 2 (LWS2) began, and surely time for this season to be made permanently free to all players. Here's why I think this should happen:

• There are no maps uniquely associated with LWS2 (since Silverwastes, Dry Top and their metas have been free to play for some time now.) It's really just plot. 
• Unlike later living seasons, LWS2 isn't associated with any of the three expacs. It's therefore more akin to LWS1, which is now permanently free to all. 
• Making LWS2 free helps drive newer players (or those who missed the 2014/15 or 2021 free windows) towards the first expansion through the story.  

Would love to see this happen - along with a 'Return to LWS2' event maybe. 

 

[Gibson.4036]

It’s really time for all of it to become included with PoF/HoT.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Fueki.4753]

Arenanet has not said they will ever be permanently for free.

Just because post-launch content for the upcoming "mini expansions" will technically be free for everyone, doesn't mean Season 2 will be free, too.

They still make money from it.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Danikat.8537]

There already was a return to Season 2 event, the achievements are still available to complete if you haven't already done them.

If I remember correctly Anet said Season 1 was free when it returned as permanent content because it was completely free originally and because they don't think it's up to the same standard as their later releases. But it might also be a marketing thing - the end of the personal story is written to be a natural stopping point so if you only have the base game it's fairly easy to play it, complete the story and then feel like it's a good point to stop entirely. Whereas now Season 1 is back you're prompted to start it after finishing the personal story and it's written to lead into Season 2, ending on a bit of a cliffhanger, so it's more likely to prompt players to keep going.

The only thing which has changed from paid to free is the base game (and that's definitely marketing - it's basically an extended demo version). HoT is bundled with PoF or included in the Complete Collection, but you still have to pay for that. Season 2 is also in the Complete Collection bundle. I think it's unlikely they'll make any of that free having recently introduced a new way to buy it which is also intended to make it clearer it's a paid extra and not part of the base game.

It might happen one day but I'm not expecting it any time soon. I think they'll just keep adding new stuff to the Complete Collection, so the price overall stays the same but the price per item goes down.

[Fleabite.7528]

To be clear, I'm not suggesting all LW chapters be given freely.

However LWS2 has no unique maps or metas and no unique currencies associated with it (since these have been freely available for some time). Most of the action actually takes place on core maps. It's really just a direct continuation of LWS1 and the teeing up of Heart of Thorns.

Ironically, despite having the least to offer of any living season, LWS2 currently retails at 30% more than all others - at a whopping 1,200 gems. If that was my first LW purchase, I might wrongly think that the others could represent equally poor value. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Its a bit silly that its the most expensive Living World season while being the least featured. I know its mainly just to gatekeep red mastery points but isn't that kind of unfair to new players?

[Poormany.4507]

Agree with the ideas so far - Either make it free or bundle it with HoT. The LWS2 story is pretty weak on its own anyways (probably the weakest of all LW), unmemorable (I barely even remember anything that happened in it), was pretty much just a prequel/ad for HoT, and as others have mentioned, it doesn't really bring any new features or maps to play, unlike other LW seasons. Since LWS1, which had a much more robust story/new achievements/Old Lions Arch map was brought back entirely for free, I see no problem with making LWS2 free or bundled with HoT (the latter option still making profits for Anet).

Edited March 20, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[Xperiment.6923]

I'm recently back after 10 years. I really enjoyed season 1 and bought first episode of season 2. Mainly cause I needed a mastery point but. The 200 gem per episode gate is not too bad but it's not an impulse buy. It's a deterrent from enjoying the entire story. I really wanted to do the story In order. But wandered over to Canta to unlock fishing...now I'm on EoD episode 9! I'm gonna stop and try to go back to season 2, wish there was at least a LW bundle sale.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

3 hours ago, Xperiment.6923 said:

wish there was at least a LW bundle sale

You just missed the Living World Seasons discount by a couple of weeks.

The reason Season Two costs more is the cost of Seasons is based on the number of Episodes.  Season Two has eight, all the rest have six. 

[bluehead.9842]

Its sad that 2 last year, on march sale, they give 30% discount, but this year, they dont offer it 😞 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

9 minutes ago, bluehead.9842 said:

Its sad that 2 last year, on march sale, they give 30% discount, but this year, they dont offer it 😞 

You could have obtained it for 20% off early on Feb. 28th.  Not as good as 30%, but still offered. 

[Danikat.8537]

Adding context to my earlier post: I'm not against the idea of it becoming free, I'm just not expecting it to happen.

If I was wanting to get Season 2 but unhappy with the price I'd wait for a sale (as mentioned there was one a few weeks ago and will be more in future) rather than waiting for them to make it free for everyone, because there's been no indication that will happen so it might never happen or if it does it could be years from now.

[Gibson.4036]

 HoT has been bundled with PoF for a long time know. Why include core and the prior expansion with PoF, but leave these weird islands of story as paid DLC?

Of course only ANet has the numbers on how much revenue LW purchases still bring in. I guess Skyscale and Trinket farming remain too valuable to include?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:12 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

They still make money from it.

Kind of a silly argument when they made the base game and Heart of Thorns free, to be honest. They still made plenty of money on those until the day they were made free / bundled - hell, making core free to play actual resulted in a net loss of money for ArenaNet in the short term, as many players demanded refunds and as PR control they made it refundable if you had bought the core game within 3 months prior to the announcement.

Quality of story aside, Season 2 offers the least amount of content for the highest price. It should either get a permanent discount, or go free.

From a marketing perspective, it would even make sense to make Season 2 free - as it gives a proper ending that builds up Heart of Thorns. Not only is this basically promoting the expansions, but people are more prone to by expansions before they buy Living World Seasons (perhaps due to the peculiar nature of how LWS are named and sold). -insert "ANet has no marketing team" joke that's rather true-

[Luthan.5236]

Not necessarily needed to make it free. And they never promised something like that. Imo it is one of the best seasones - storywise. Though it has not really any contend besides the story. (Well ... the maps but they are there already for free.) Making it cheaper could be an option I guess?

The packaging stuff should be better. I often asked to put the expansions together with the previous seasons that preceded them. So people that do not do wiki research or ask in the forums (website might not really explain this in that much depth) might not make the mistake to buy PoF (bundled with HoT) thinking they can fully start with HoT - after finishing the core story ... without having to buy anything in between. (When they do not want to miss anything.)

Bundling PoF with S3 and HoT with S2 would have made more sense. At the very least they should put all stuff in the shop on the website (not in game) in the correct order. To clarify things for new players.

Meaning: When you go to the website to buy the expansions (where people still might inform themselve about the order of release of the expansions ... trying to buy PoF bundled with HoT first - for HoT) there should be the explanation that S2 comes before HoT - listing the full S2 bundle before PoF/HoT at the top. The expansoin below it. And making it possible to buy it there of course.

Afaik there is a full bundle with all seasons + expansions but the individual expansions are not yet there or are they?

From checking that site they do the order from recent one at the left (top menu bar) and showing the full collection there. Then moving ot expansions only. The last expansion (the set with PoF/HoT) to the right. And after that the base game. (Not in between indicating the season 2 by selling it there.) Then at the right the ... collection of the expansions only (EoD + PoF/HoT) without the seasons. A bit weird this ordering/layout.

And the HoT/PoF bundle does omit the info that there is still season 2 which starts before HoT.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Luthan.5236

[Gravitron.7982]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:01 AM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Its a bit silly that its the most expensive Living World season while being the least featured. I know its mainly just to gatekeep red mastery points but isn't that kind of unfair to new players?

Good points! I guess us new players just aren't seen as important.

[Dayra.7405]

As it has most episodes it the most expensive one and it doesn’t give more than the story, the maps are free anyway

[Randulf.7614]

It is strange it is still paid content given how little you get. You may get more episodes, but that is kind of a weak argument to pay more given you get two maps instead of six and those are free anyway. So you actually get no maps for your money

[Batalix.2873]

I would agree with this for three more reasons not so far listed:

 

1) LWS2, especially the Dry Top half, naturally complements LWS1 and the character of Scarlet. I would even argue Dry Top has little impact on core players without that story tie-in.

 

2) The wrap up of LWS2 is a much stronger cliffhanger encouraging buy-in to HoT/PoF than LWS1 is to purchase LWS2. Granted, players already buy HoT/PoF anyway for other reasons and maybe the whole idea is to spur LWS2 sales. But I think a reasonable case could be made that between LWS2 being underwhelming; core players being naturally funneled toward level 80 and Silverwastes with boosts; core players not quite "clicking" with the game and needing as much push-through as possible to HoT/PoF where it hits its stride...I think the tradeoffs of making LWS2 free would substantially affect new player retention.

 

3) Also, given that the whole dragon cycle runs in tandem with Aurene, it wouldn't be wrong for the actual beginning of the Aurene story to be free with core. Especially since imo egg/baby Aurene is when she is at her most compelling.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

I full-heartedly agree with this. A bunch of my friends (who I usually play other games with) picked up GW2 to play with me a couple of months ago and most of them have purchased HoT/PoF.

Having to explain that despite paying for HoT/PoF they have to pay MORE money to fill in the story gap before they reach the HoT content is just really awkward. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. We might end up just skipping LWS2 but that seems like a poor solution too as (apparently) it leaves a noticeable gap in the story.

[duskpoo.1824]

I'm not exactly a new player but i did come in post lws2.  I always had a hard time with the story because of the gaps of s1 and s2.  Now they gave us s1 but not s2 and I don't understand why.  I keep hearing it's crap, no new maps, not to mention it's old as dirt at this point.   And didn't players get it for free just from logging in?  So why do new players who weren't here to log in when it was released have to be punished?  I'm not paying for it.  Sorry.  I've paid for absolutely everything else in this game.  I was hoping it would be discounted greatly at this point but no, 1280 gems.  It's a slap in my face.  Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[BatelGeuce.3591]

I agree.

I had to buy LWS2 way back and I don't regret it one bit but I've always wondered why they never made them (all the seasons) permanently free for everyone as long as you own the corresponding expansion. Like LWS2 could be tied to HoT since it's its prequel I take this back, LWS2 should be free even without HoT since it's also LWS1 sequel and its maps are available even if you don't own the story episodes. Hiding the filler story behind a pay wall feels so contraproductive. But I guess business is bussines.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by BatelGeuce.3591

[Dayra.7405]

On 3/20/2023 at 2:39 PM, Fleabite.7528 said:

It's almost nine years since Living World Season 2 (LWS2) began, and surely time for this season to be made permanently free to all players. Here's why I think this should happen:

• There are no maps uniquely associated with LWS2 (since Silverwastes, Dry Top and their metas have been free to play for some time now.) It's really just plot. 
• Unlike later living seasons, LWS2 isn't associated with any of the three expacs. It's therefore more akin to LWS1, which is now permanently free to all. 
• Making LWS2 free helps drive newer players (or those who missed the 2014/15 or 2021 free windows) towards the first expansion through the story.  

Would love to see this happen - along with a 'Return to LWS2' event maybe. 

 

It's even the most expensive LS, as it has more episodes than all other (8 instead of 6, 6, 5).

[Fueki.4753]

As long as people are paying for it, Arenanet has no reason to permanently give it away for free.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

As long as people are paying for it, Arenanet has no reason to permanently give it away for free.

People were still paying for Heart of Thorns, but they made that free by bundling it with PoF.

People were still paying for core game, but they made that free to play with a few restrictions.

ANet has reason to make it permanently free, from PR to improving new player experience for player retention, among other reasons. Whether they will or won't is another matter. If their profits from that season alone are small (and they probably are), then there isn't much reason to keep it paid for.