Hero Points are outdated

[RadiantWolf.2058]

I can see why it annoys people but even without a flying mount it takes me maybe 1.5-2 hours to loop around Path of Fire zones and get all of my hero points.

 

Some End of Dragon spots are even easier. Add flight that cuts down the travel time considerably.

 

It's not that bad. Plus I always end up with sacks full of goodies to sell on the AH.

[Gibson.4036]

I can say that I've had a new season of making alts recently, and it's definitely not HPs that are the hurdle.

Getting enough of the world unlocked that I can comfortably hop on a character and knock out dailies or jump to metas is a much bigger and less interesting task.

[Vayne.8563]

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Out of the four classes added to WoW, only Monk started from level one.

Before the level squish, Death Knight started at 58 and Demon Hunter started at 98 (both now start level 8).

Evoker currently starts at 58.

As long as they leave out the rotten aftertaste of the Tangled Depths, that'd be fine to me.

Okay, I haven't played for a long time, so I can go with that.

But a WoW player still has to level when a new expansion comes out. They don't give you that expansion at max level. I don't have to level if I want to play on the new class, and I don't have to worry about gearing either.  Essentially, I can play a new elite spec without leveling at all.  I have to unlock an elite spec, which I can prefarm if I choose to, just by playing the game.

PvP players and WvW players either get the elite spec unlocked automatically, in the case of PvP, or will likely have plenty of currency to unlock the elite spec.  PvE players, assuming they bring their characters into the open world, which most people do, will likely have enough hero points to get most of their elite spec before an expansion even comes out. 

 

There's simply no real comparison between the two games, because an elite spec isn't a new class. It's a new option for an existing class, something WoW doesn't really offer. Guild Wars 2, by contrast, doesn't offer new classes. Comparing two different things, one of which can be pre farmed and one of which can't, just doesn't make sense.

 

But I have played WoW and I have played Guild Wars 2 and the Guild Wars 2 way is far far better for my play style.  All the characters I play were upgraded almost immediately the day the expansion dropped, with no need to level or gear at all.

[Fueki.4753]

19 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Okay, I haven't played for a long time, so I can go with that.

But a WoW player still has to level when a new expansion comes out. They don't give you that expansion at max level. I don't have to level if I want to play on the new class, and I don't have to worry about gearing either.  Essentially, I can play a new elite spec without leveling at all.  I have to unlock an elite spec, which I can prefarm if I choose to, just by playing the game.

PvP players and WvW players either get the elite spec unlocked automatically, in the case of PvP, or will likely have plenty of currency to unlock the elite spec.  PvE players, assuming they bring their characters into the open world, which most people do, will likely have enough hero points to get most of their elite spec before an expansion even comes out. 

 

There's simply no real comparison between the two games, because an elite spec isn't a new class. It's a new option for an existing class, something WoW doesn't really offer. Guild Wars 2, by contrast, doesn't offer new classes. Comparing two different things, one of which can be pre farmed and one of which can't, just doesn't make sense.

 

But I have played WoW and I have played Guild Wars 2 and the Guild Wars 2 way is far far better for my play style.  All the characters I play were upgraded almost immediately the day the expansion dropped, with no need to level or gear at all.

Technically, leveling up a new class can be compared to unlocking an elite specialization, under the condition that you don't unlock all of it at once. If you were to unlock it trait by trait, ability by ability, it'd would vaguely resemble leveling up and gaining more abilities as you level up.

But it's fine that way. Both leveling up and gaining Hero Points to unlock elite specializations is gameplay. In fact, leveling characters used to be my favourite part about WoW and I am always sad when I hear reports of Blizzard speeding it up.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Mo Mo.1947]

It sounds like OP just needs an HP run. They can send me a message and I'll help do em. I've got mesmers parked in a lot of convenient places. 😋

[Sobx.1758]

HP points aren't outdated, I don't see anything wrong with them.

On 4/21/2023 at 10:03 AM, lezbefriends.7516 said:

Edit: Also, this is 2023, people have 50+ characters. It's artificial content (akin to gear treadmills) to make them run through maps for hero points on every. single. character.

At no point you need 50 characters for anything in the game, creating more characters is your choice. If you're actively playing with them -which means actually having time to play with 50 of them 😶- then unlocking hps on them shouldn't be much of an issue. If you're just rping or parking them for loot, you don't need all those hps anyways.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[DanAlcedo.3281]

This is the worst  use of the word "gear treadmill" I have ever seen

Edited April 28, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

if you are in a level appropriate map, you have all the skills and traits you need to do any hero point. 

 

And exploring is a huge part of the game. Otherwise, why not play some shoot&loot? 

 

but the best part: you don't even have to do them at all. You can get them all from wvw (and pvp I guess?).

Edited April 28, 2023 by VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 4/25/2023 at 12:16 AM, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So you find the node, get the point, and you are counting that as complete? Or do you have to repeat that task 24 more times?

Pro tip: If you play WvW you don't have to do this even once. You can just buy off Hero Points with WvW currency.

[JTGuevara.9018]

.......ahem....

By this logic, points of interest, way-points or anything else required for map completion are also "outdated".

But see, this is the typical logic of the push of so-called "endgame", aka "Who cares about the hamburger patty and bun (game)? It is the KETCHUP(endgame) where it's at!"

[Linken.6345]

10 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

.......ahem....

By this logic, points of interest, way-points or anything else required for map completion are also "outdated".

But see, this is the typical logic of the push of so-called "endgame", aka "Who cares about the hamburger patty and bun (game)? It is the KETCHUP(endgame) where it's at!"

Youy mean mayones right?

Who the hell want red sugar on their hamburger?

[Gravitron.7982]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:55 AM, Luthan.5236 said:

I would not mind if this got changed. Personally I liked to explore the maps - especially the first time with my main. For the other chars I also get map completions cause I like it. Looks just nice on the mini and normal map.

But I can see that this is annoying for people that want to make secondary chars for fun or for trying another class/profession - where they want to progress quickly. And with that much content in the game there is not really a reason anymore to force people to do hero points to explore different regions. +the points itself are not that much of a challenge. More like ... time consuming. (Not that much time though imo.)

We already have the items from ... WvW I think (?) where you easily can unlock stuff. But not everyone plays WvW I guess. There are soo much laurels and not much use ... they could maybe add thosre items also to the laurel vendor - then being an option only for long-term players that have gathered up a bit on laurels. (New players still needing to play the maps normally.) And/or tie it to having completed stuff on at least one char (main) first before it can be unlocked in another/easier way.

But again - to avoid misunderstandings: I am not against it. But I do not need it for myself. I don't even use the WvW item. I manually try to aim for (sloooooowly) full world completion on all my chars. Have a main + a 2nd char (2nd "main") ... and working on the 3rd one. Trying to explore the elite specs in the regions of the expansions they got released with. (Sloooowly.)

I'm glad you were able to also notice this, and appreciate your comment!

[Gravitron.7982]

On 4/26/2023 at 6:10 AM, RadiantWolf.2058 said:

I can see why it annoys people but even without a flying mount it takes me maybe 1.5-2 hours to loop around Path of Fire zones and get all of my hero points.

 

Some End of Dragon spots are even easier. Add flight that cuts down the travel time considerably.

 

It's not that bad. Plus I always end up with sacks full of goodies to sell on the AH.

I appreciate that you were able to also notice this as I have.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

There are other Hero Points you can get when one requires beating a Champion. There are actually so many it really isn't an issue.

The Hero Point system is one of the best systems I've seen in an MMO. It could be the best if we could use excess points for other stuff.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:48 PM, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I appreciate that you were able to also notice this as I have.

Problem is, if you ask around, there's no single feature in this game that would not annoy someone. This, by itself, does not mean those features should be removed.

[Gravitron.7982]

8 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

There are other Hero Points you can get when one requires beating a Champion. There are actually so many it really isn't an issue.

The Hero Point system is one of the best systems I've seen in an MMO. It could be the best if we could use excess points for other stuff.

It's definitely not the best system I've personally seen.

[Gravitron.7982]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Problem is, if you ask around, there's no single feature in this game that would not annoy someone. This, by itself, does not mean those features should be removed.

The same could be said about systems that people say they like, that by itself does not mean that feature is good.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

The same could be said about systems that people say they like, that by itself does not mean that feature is good.

Yes, indeed. Which is why it's good to offer some more meaningful arguments for a change than "it annoys me, and maybe some other people"

[Gravitron.7982]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, indeed. Which is why it's good to offer some more meaningful arguments for a change than "it annoys me, and maybe some other people"

Well I believe a meaningful argument was already presented. The Hero Point system was put in place when the game was still designed around core specs, and only 1 elite spec existed for each class. In 2023, the game is a little different, being that the game is now being designed around elite specs, not core specs.

I know that they have made some changes to the HP system in the past, but given that the game wants players to get into an elite spec as soon as possible, it might be time to change how players get HP's...or at least, add more ways to get them besides forcing them to explore the maps, or forcing players to PVP.

I don't see why they can't offer other ways to obtain them, I mean more options to accomplish something is better for players right? If we could buy them with karma points, or trade in meaningless currencies we collect, etc. I've noticed that post level 80, finishing a story line grants a mastery point....what harm would it do if they also offered hero points as rewards too?

[vares.8457]

12 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I don't see why they can't offer other ways to obtain them, I mean more options to accomplish something is better for players right? If we could buy them with karma points, or trade in meaningless currencies we collect, etc. I've noticed that post level 80, finishing a story line grants a mastery point....what harm would it do if they also offered hero points as rewards too?

There already are other ways to get hero points, you can get them in WvW and PvP.
I don’t see a reason to add more ways, the existing are enough. Getting enough hero points to max out all specializations is really easy and fast, usually you have more than enough hero points and can max out a new specialization without even playing the new maps. When EoD started I already had the hero points to get the new specs. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by vares.8457

[Gravitron.7982]

13 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

There already are other ways to get hero points, you can get them in WvW and PvP.
I don’t see a reason to add more ways, the existing are enough. Getting enough hero points to max out all specializations is really easy and fast, usually you have more than enough hero points and can max out a new specialization without even playing the new maps. When EoD started I already had the hero points to get the new specs. 

I just don't think forcing players into game modes they don't want to play is the way to go. PVPers don't want to be forced to raid to get the things they need to PVP, and PVErs don't want to be forced to PVP to get the things they need. There are a group of players who will do both, but for most MMORPG's, most players usually stick to one game mode.

I just don't see how adding more options would hurt players.

[Gibson.4036]

23 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I know that they have made some changes to the HP system in the past, but given that the game wants players to get into an elite spec as soon as possible, it might be time to change how players get HP's
 

I just don't get how a couple hours of running around is too long.

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I just don't get how a couple hours of running around is too long.

And I just don't get why more options to gain HP's is bad for players.

[vares.8457]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I just don't think forcing players into game modes they don't want to play is the way to go. PVPers don't want to be forced to raid to get the things they need to PVP, and PVErs don't want to be forced to PVP to get the things they need. There are a group of players who will do both, but for most MMORPG's, most players usually stick to one game mode.

I just don't see how adding more options would hurt players.

No one is forced to do anything, every game mode offers hero points. Just play the game and your preferred game mode. I really don’t understand your crying, this is a non issue. 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I just don't get how a couple hours of running around is too long.

This. Unlocking an espec requires less than a hour of doing HPs in expansion maps. If someone finds that this is too long or requires too much effort, i doubt anything else would be satisfying for them either.