May 2 Balance Update Preview

[Asra.8746]

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Thief

Thief is generally in a good spot, and we didn't see any major outliers that needed to be addressed with this update. We're working on some larger adjustments for the next update in June, including the goal of significantly improving specter support builds and introducing a quickness build for deadeye.

Signets of Power is a trait that we reworked in the last balance update that didn't quite hit the mark. We want to be cautious with repeatable initiative sources like this, but we feel like there's still room to tune it up.

Core

• Signets of Power: Increased initiative gain from 1 to 2.

Bug Fixes

• Weakening Charge: Fixed an issue that prevented this skill from creating Combo Finisher: Whirl the correct number of times.
• Well of Sorrow: Fixed an issue that prevented this skill from being affected by quickness.

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Thief is generally in a good spot, and we didn't see any major outliers that needed to be addressed with this update. 

Yea...cause Acrobatics is perfectly fine.

Same for Trickery - in particular Preparedness and Sleight of Hand.

On another note, at least they claim to be trying to fix Specter and introduce a quickness build. Not going to hold my breath personally after what a joke support Specter has been for over a year.

Also, if they actually believe that 2 initiative will make that trait any good to take over the others, they are still clueless.

I think my favourite part for Thief was just how self-contradictory their first statement was:

Quote

Thief is generally in a good spot, and we didn't see any major outliers that needed to be addressed with this update. We're working on some larger adjustments for the next update in June, including the goal of significantly improving specter support builds and introducing a quickness build for deadeye.

It's literally not possible to be in a "good spot" and not have any "major outliers" which needs addressing, while simultaneously also needing "some larger adjustments" and "significant improvements".

Thief is so confusing for them that they can't even get their statements and claims in order.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Asra.8746

[TwiceDead.1963]

Ha.. ha?

[Nomad.4301]

All Anet seemingly looks at in terms of "balance" is how much a spec does in PvE on (presumably) static target dummies. Since all* thief specs can technically hit ~25k+ DPS which is around what most other classes can do in similar circumstances then in their eyes it is "generally in a good spot". They don't seem to look at all the dead traits, utilities or ENTIRE LINES (acrobatics/specter) that are left behind because (I guess?) those are irrelevant to the current 'meta' anyways and not worth looking at, they seem to ignore PvP/WvW balance for a similar reason.

This is extremely disappointing to me as it show that (at least right now) they are unwilling or unable to make the changes needed to overhaul or reinvigorate stagnate builds/utilities etc which have been mothballed forever, this will become more important in the future assuming their new business model doesn't allow for additional elite specs (pure speculation) because if that happens the only change-ups to the meta we get will be these 'balance' patches. If at any point they decided that a class was "balanced" then all that class would ever have to look forward to would be changes like this; 5% here, 1 extra second duration there, fixed an issue etc..  

Here's hoping that the June patch proves that they are still willing to make BIG changes to professions, and that this was just a patch squeezed out to meet their quarterly obligation from the road map.

*all meaning any build currently on MetaBattle

[Downstate.4697]

Thief is in a good spot though. The trash

[Tails.9372]

7 hours ago, Asra.8746 said:

Thief is generally in a good spot

Well you know what they say: "everything is relative". It all depends on how exactly A-Nets balance team defines "thief being in a good spot".

7 hours ago, Asra.8746 said:

We want to be cautious with repeatable initiative sources like this

Which is basically an admission that they don't have any idea how bad the 2 ini per signet use (with an average CD of about 20 seconds per signet for PvE) actually is but just for comparison M7 gets you easily 2-3 ini per second on a consistent basis. They massively overestimate how impactful ini reg traits actually are. As long as the players can't do things like sustaining "spamming Head Shot" you're generally fine and getting there would actually be a lot harder than they make it out to be.

[Vidit.7108]

I guess now we know why bugs aren't getting fixed, they've decided bug fixing is balance updating. 

I don't like that they've passed us up with the promise of big vague changes in the future.

[Eugenides.1274]

What's the meme? I expected nothing and I'm still let down?
We can also fall back on the staple copium of "at least thief didn't get nerfed".

 

Waiting 2 months for changes and seeing a single line is so unbelievably disappointing. Especially when it is a change to a trait 99% of builds will just not use.

 

PvE side of things thief trait will continue to be ignored. I'm genuinely curious what kind of build they imagined would take signets of power when they reworked it. 4 signet core thief?

 

And for competitive nothing is being adjusted to try and promote the usage of different weapon sets or fixing up the dumpster fire that is Acrobatics. It's just painfully clear that they have no idea what to do with this class.

[andrewlcl.8176]

Thief is in a good spot, in the dumps, where it belongs. 

 

Except in WvW, apparently, where people are routinely screwed over by d/p (and to a lesser extent, p/p cele) Daredevils. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

If they're going to give quickness to the Deadeye then Anet is going to have to buff the damage output of the Daredevil by a significant margin to compensate...

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

53 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

If they're going to give quickness to the Deadeye then Anet is going to have to buff the damage output of the Daredevil by a significant margin to compensate...

Or make a way for daredevil to generate might for the group without spamming utilities.

[Dadnir.5038]

14 hours ago, Asra.8746 said:

Signets of Power is a trait that we reworked in the last balance update that didn't quite hit the mark. We want to be cautious with repeatable initiative sources like this, but we feel like there's still room to tune it up.

Increase initiative from 1 to 2 on signet of power and that's it for thief? What a joke.

Initiative might be valuable but it's not valuable enough for a thief to blow a signet in order to gain a puny 2 points of initiative back.

[brokenLight.1058]

I feel anet doesnt care about thief because when its in a solid spot the rest of the player base complains so kittening much . . . how many nerfs did deadeye get in wvw and pvp yet people still call for its deletion from the game

Edited April 22, 2023 by brokenLight.1058
words

[Doggie.3184]

There is no patch for us 🤷‍♂️

[Exo.2143]

I also responded this in the actual preview post, but there is on reddit a very good post by REMagic who has some great ideas on how to buff pDaredevil, which can definetely use a tiny bit of a bump which he wants to achieve by a few simple changes. Link to the reddit post.

[cyberzombie.7348]

I just don't understand why they think deadeye needs more quickness. I can easily have 10-20 seconds worth if built for it.

Plus it still doesn't address the core issue with de. As for pvp/wvw the meta is just stay out of kneel and run-n-gun with spam skirmisher shot/dj.

[draxynnic.3719]

19 hours ago, Asra.8746 said:

I think my favourite part for Thief was just how self-contradictory their first statement was:

It's literally not possible to be in a "good spot" and not have any "major outliers" which needs addressing, while simultaneously also needing "some larger adjustments" and "significant improvements".

Thief is so confusing for them that they can't even get their statements and claims in order.

From the perspective of someone who was in pre-PoF guardian forums, let me translate:

Being in a "good place" means that there is nothing overpowered, but the profession is not so bad that it has been abandoned altogether. It does not guarantee that the profession is actually in the meta anywhere - in fact, it often means it's not, since whatever is dominant in the meta is often at least a little OP in their eyes. Generally, it means that most of the professions popular builds would get somewhere around a B in tier lists - not meta, but not so bad that you groan when you have one on your team.

In this particular case, I think "generally" is also a key word - they could regard thief as generally being in a good place while acknowledging that some specific cases, such as support spectre, need a significant boost.

[kash.9213]

8 hours ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Or make a way for daredevil to generate might for the group without spamming utilities.

That sounds fair and would make practical sense anyway, giving a themed team composition progression along side the usual individual builds. 

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

I just don't understand why they think deadeye needs more quickness.

Well they never said that they want to add "more quickness" to the DE itself. "introducing a quickness build for deadeye" can mean anything and when in doubt it's safe to just look at it from an "A-Net being A-Net" rather then a "A-Net actually wants to buff thief" perspective meaning that I would rather expect them to e.g. add something like "allies around the marked target gain quickness" to Be Quick or Be Killed with the goal to introduce some quickness support build than anything else.

[cyberzombie.7348]

50 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Well they never said that they want to add "more quickness" to the DE itself. "introducing a quickness build for deadeye" can mean anything and when in doubt it's safe to just look at it from an "A-Net being A-Net" rather then a "A-Net actually wants to buff thief" perspective meaning that I would rather expect them to e.g. add something like "allies around the marked target gain quickness" to Be Quick or Be Killed with the goal to introduce some quickness support build than anything else.

If that's the case then adding group quickness for thief won't make much of an impact. Catalyst, warrior, guardian, and mesmer already provides an abundance of that.

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

If that's the case then adding group quickness for thief won't make much of an impact. Catalyst, warrior, guardian, and mesmer already provides an abundance of that.

I think the idea is to expand options. Having it there at least as an option means that you can rock up to a PUG that isn't being overly selective at what fills which role and be able to fill the dps, alacdps, or quickdps roles without switching character. Not every quickness build needs to be the best quickness build in the game, it just needs to be good enough.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:55 AM, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Or make a way for daredevil to generate might for the group without spamming utilities.

We kitten out might and fury groupwise u know right?

[Voraxen.2035]

Worst balance team yet. It's been a year and they've provided literally no positive improvements to thief. They've hacked stealth to pieces and spvp thief is 50% of what the pve thief is. Please find a new thief designer.

[Kolly.9872]

Seriously they lack thief knowledge at any level.

 

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

„thief is in a good spot“ is like a punch to the face in my opinion.

yeah numberwise we may sit in the middle of the pack or slightly above it when it comes to boss dps but we lack group utility, aoe cleave damage and defense capabilities besides stealth that every non-thief player is hating on every 5 seconds in this forum.

It is good to hear that quickness de and support spectre is on the table, but thief in its core profession design is lacking so much right now that even if those „coming“ changes are actually achieving all goals, it is barely enough.

Thief is third least played profession after Revenant and Engineer (Engi increased constantly since mechanist and Rev being introduced years after launch) - with this statement by Anet it will be on last place sooner than later [based on playtime on gw2 efficiency]

This statement from Anet is only due the fact that thief is neither rock bottom or at the top and they simply dont know what to do with it.

[Bunny.9834]

8 hours ago, Voraxen.2035 said:

Worst balance team yet. It's been a year and they've provided literally no positive improvements to thief. They've hacked stealth to pieces and spvp thief is 50% of what the pve thief is. Please find a new thief designer.

Yup. So far this balance team has produced more dead traits and skills. Created no new gameplay.