Guild Wars 2 on Reddit Blackout

[ShadowCatz.8437]

Due to conflict about increased cost for access to API (for third party apps) where reddit mods set all subedits to Private incl GW2 official reddit page.

Google typical direct one to reddit when one search for issues that isn't that often mention on this forum any more like about dungeons etc. I just discovered that there is an ongoing conflict where mods now have set most reddit subedit to "private" which means that those will not longer be public or even possible to read as mods will not accept new members as long as this conflict is happening.

Maybe Arena Net need to find a way to save older content from reddit for archival purposes?  This Blackout means that all historical content is now inaccessible when one look at content that have been posted at reddit.

FYI I am not a reddit user or member, but like to check on reddit if there is some kind of information that isn't here on GW2 forum. Before Twitter became what it is today (for GW2), reddit where a source where some devs published information and discussed, so it is important to at least keep some of that material intact for the future.

 

[Nitram.7836]

I hate losing the subreddit, but I side with the unpaid mods's decisions. The community holds reddit together and they should have a say and a right to lock down their communities in protest.

I did see that they were unsure of how long it would go for now. While it was meant to be a 12-14th blackout, many subreddits have decided to go private for an extended period. I think end of the month is when the 3rd Party applications will shut down as that's when Reddit's new terms come in effect. Should Reddit continue without changing the API Access rules, the mods want to set the sub to View Only, allowing the historical data to be visible again, but no new data to come in.

Let's hope for the best resolution.

Have a nice day.

[Ashen.2907]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to look into some way to archive old GW2 content from Reddit, particularly those where ANet hosted official or semi-official community interaction.

Ultimately an angry mob whining about a company charging for their product should not be able to impact others in this way. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[SlayerXX.7138]

27 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Ultimately an angry mob of whining about a company charging for their product should not be able to impact others in this way. 

The angry mob "whining" are basically unpaid employees who provide a big part of the Product. Btw where do you want to store all the information? On the wiki? The side who is also not maintained by the company, but bunch of volunteers. 

[CETheLucid.3964]

With any luck they'll replace the mods soon and reopen the subreddit, like they've started doing elsewhere.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I for one am not missing the poor resolution my first legendary posts. 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

9 minutes ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

With any luck they'll replace the mods soon and reopen the subreddit, like they've started doing elsewhere.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/reddit-ceo-will-change-rules-to-make-mods-less-powerful-2023-6%3famp

To be honest this is the best things to happen.  There have been to many stories of powermods, and I would assume the general reddit user does not approve of the black out. 

[CETheLucid.3964]

6 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/reddit-ceo-will-change-rules-to-make-mods-less-powerful-2023-6%3famp

To be honest this is the best things to happen.  There have been to many stories of powermods, and I would assume the general reddit user does not approve of the black out. 

Yep. I don't have much sympathy for mods who own a monopoly of subreddits. You don't need to be in a position of power in all these different places using APIs to automod. Take a more practical, human approach. Choose the place you're best suited. Let other people step up to the plate. Or if you're that determined to be reddits robocop, pay up. This debacle is just denying the community they supposedly care about over such noble issues of power and control.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Wouldn't be a bad idea to look into some way to archive old GW2 content from Reddit, particularly those where ANet hosted official or semi-official community interaction.

Ultimately an angry mob of whining about a company charging for their product should not be able to impact others in this way. 

Huge part of that "product" IS built and sustained by the community itself along with the unofficial apps. Blackout is a good decision, especially if you heard how disconnected from reality the pricing on the api reddit suddenly calls for is. It's not even "maybe you should pay us a fair price for usage of the data", it's "just go away".

 

@ShadowCatz.8437 for now use wiki and players helping players on this forum, I guess.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Barraind.7324]

Its a bunch of people who cant do math whining about how they cant do math.

 

If you look up what Reddit wants to charge for API access (and since moderation tools arent being changed per the announcement the boycott parade quotes in their boycott message, theres nothing on that front to even take issue with) then look at how much average revenue they lose from advertising per average clickthrough rate per API call of the most used 3 companies for those advertising packages, the numbers are almost identical, with reddit still potentially eating a loss of a few cents per 1000. 

They're asking for what ends up being an average charge of $1 per DAU per month (unless its apollo, which is horrifically inefficient by every reported metric).  

 

That, for what its worth to an end user, is a significantly cheaper price than having to pay for reddit premium to remove ads. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Barraind.7324

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

The angry mob "whining" are basically unpaid employees who provide a big part of the Product. Btw where do you want to store all the information? On the wiki? The side who is also not maintained by the company, but bunch of volunteers. 

They are not employees, paid or otherwise. They are users of the product. 

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Huge part of that "product" IS built and sustained by the community itself along with the unofficial apps. Blackout is a good decision, especially if you heard how disconnected from reality the pricing on the api reddit suddenly calls for is. It's not even "maybe you should pay us a fair price for usage of the data", it's "just go away".

 

@ShadowCatz.8437 for now use wiki and players helping players on this forum, I guess.

If I build something with Legos do I get to dictate the company's business model? No, the building and sustaining by the community that you mention is people using the product.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Eventually Reddit will forcibly reopen the forums by replacing 'inactive' mods with those willing to carry on. This is what happens when you bring a generation up on 'free' stuff. All these companies have had their seed money dry up, and now they have to monetize a userbase that is used to complaining about how much everything costs. First target - greedy API sponges who have made a pile of cash off of Reddit's back by selling subscriptions to their 3rd party tools. Kind of on Reddit's side here - eject the idiots who don't understand how money works.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

Please, don't start a forum war in this thread!

This post wasn't about how right or wrong Blackout on reddit is, but to inform that reddit Guild Wars 2 sub section can not be used as a source for older content that have been posted there and in particular talk about problem related to archival purposes of content that are related to when Guild Wars 2 had other people working at that time and made comments that still today might be useful to know about as how to this game have developed over time.

I didn't find any post here on this forum mention "Blackout" or Reddit in that context, so I made a post to get some awareness from forum(mods) and Arena Net (NCsoft) to what their plan to keep that material for future research and usage.

Take your fights some other place, please!

 

[Dahkeus.8243]

I’ve been a huge fan of Reddit with an account of 7 years, but the love the CEO is doing here will not only hurt normal redditors and their communities, but will also directly affect users who rely on 3rd party apps accessibility features that the first party website and app don’t support.  For more on this, check out the link below.  
 

As for me, after 7 years, I deleted my account.  I know it won’t change anything, but I think it’s the right thing to do anyways.   
 

https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/blind-people-may-be-unable-use-reddit-july

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

If I build something with Legos do I get to dictate the company's business model? No, the building and sustaining by the community that you mention is people using the product.

Ah yes, the realm of comparisons is here! Well, if you got your lego set/s and after few years the company would start charging you monthly for it because it's theirs, would you be calling yourself an angry mob too?

 

5 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

This post wasn't about how right or wrong Blackout on reddit is, but to inform that reddit Guild Wars 2 sub section can not be used as a source for older content that have been posted there

Use wiki and players helping players on this forum, still not sure what issue you're having here.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Marvellous.4620]

This is mods power tripping, just leave reddit, dont take communities hostage... so many mods who moderate absurd amount of subreddits at once for free, go. away. let other people step up then.

This nonsense will just make many users be against the protest, real protest is leaving and letting chaos breed in, but current mods prob know majority would just be replaced super fast.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Marvellous.4620

[DanAlcedo.3281]

As far as I know, only like 0.1% of Reddit users use Third Party apps. 

And isn't it true that these Third Party apps put their own Adds on them so Reddit doesn't see any money? 

So, reddit provides a service they themself don't see profits from but others can make money with it? 

That reddit blackout is overblown af. 

Edit: I'm kitten with math today. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Randulf.7614]

5 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

Please, don't start a forum war in this thread!

This post wasn't about how right or wrong Blackout on reddit is, but to inform that reddit Guild Wars 2 sub section can not be used as a source for older content that have been posted there and in particular talk about problem related to archival purposes of content that are related to when Guild Wars 2 had other people working at that time and made comments that still today might be useful to know about as how to this game have developed over time.

I didn't find any post here on this forum mention "Blackout" or Reddit in that context, so I made a post to get some awareness from forum(mods) and Arena Net (NCsoft) to what their plan to keep that material for future research and usage.

Take your fights some other place, please!

 

I very much doubt Anet has a plan or is giving it any thought. There will be little to nothing important that isn’t also on the old archived official forums or referenced on the wiki/blogs where their priorities are.

[Krzysztof.5973]

Why would Anted want to preserve a ton of negative threads about the game and them? 
The blackout will soon end and business will go back to normal. It's just funny so see cases of power tripping from the internet janitors or the leeches claiming they should have the right to create 3rd party apps on their own terms not the reddit's. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

15 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

If I build something with Legos do I get to dictate the company's business model? No, the building and sustaining by the community that you mention is people using the product.

No but you can take your Lego construction and go home. That is all the mods did it isn't it? Some subreddits are fine with the blackout to send a message. Reddit doesn't make Legos it does provide the place to show Legos. Reddit sells ads. If reddit would employ Personal to moderate their subreddits I would be on your side, but they don't.

The reddit CEO made an actual good point: A lot of mods kind of inherited their position. A fact he won't give a second thought the second the mods start to clean up his place for free again.

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[SnowdropFox.2456]

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

As far as I know, only like 0.001% of Reddit users use Third Party apps. 

Your source probably

[Omega.6801]

It's time to let reddit die (which won't happen because people, in the end, will pay whatever price 3rd party apps wil charge).

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 hours ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

Your source probably

Let's see.

Reddit users: 861 million. 

Apollo users: 1 - 1,5 million. 

I'm close with 0.1%. 

Also: why didn't I get a notification for your post? 

Edit: I'm a kitten today with math. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Omega.6801 said:

It's time to let reddit die (which won't happen because people, in the end, will pay whatever price 3rd party apps wil charge).

They won't. People already calculated how much they'd have to charge, and it would be around 5 to 10 USD per month from users (depending on third party app, with Apollo only barely scraping by with 10 USD monthly). Apollo specifically would have to raise their income by over 40 times (notice, that they'd also completely lose any income they currently get from ads) to keep up with the new pricings.

Apollo gets the highest costs, but it would not be much better for other apps. Basically any of the popular ones already mentioned they'd have to close shop. The pricing was never meant to be reasonable - it is just an indirect means for Reddit to get rid of any competitors for their own app (because it's so bad it's the only way it can compete, and Reddit has no real plan to improve it).

BTW: the Reddit claims that Apollo gets special pricing not due to being the largest competitor but due to efficiency, it's telling that at the same time Reddit refuses to answer in which way Apollo is ineficient. And comparisons of API usage between Apollo an official Reddit app doesn't show any significant differences either. WHich, of course, by iself says nothing - like i mentioned official app is really bad.

Notice, btw, that there's one more change that is bundled with the api pricings - old reddit webpage access willl also go away. And new reddit look is still way inferior utility-wise.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Astralporing.1957