U Cele Bro?

[Polar.8634]

On 6/27/2023 at 5:37 PM, hugeboss.5432 said:

I hear newbie players talking in mapchat about "cele players", since it's the current excuse for getting rekt. But when I engage them, I don't notice anything out of the ordinary and 99% of the time I will end up killing them (if i'm not semi afk).

does not prove anything, we dont know what you run, what they run, , what is your skill and what is opponent skill, your and their numbers

On 6/27/2023 at 5:37 PM, hugeboss.5432 said:

Sustain is a key feature here, as cele is far from best dps.

not only sustain. look ay this thread 

which has math to cele dps included, showing cele dps is far from bad.

 

On 6/27/2023 at 5:37 PM, hugeboss.5432 said:

I would say the hardest thing to kill, is usually the same one class above all, that has the widest variety of combat skills for every combat situation with their weapon set. It's not simply to slap on cele stats and think your gonna kill 96% of the players on the map. But, take rune of ********* on a full ******** stated toon [censored], and check out how much combat efficiency that suddenly makes anyone.. That is a huge bump in wvw OP rating, without using celestial at all (don't want to make a "new thing", so not specifying what exactly).

nobody said to slap cele on anything. You slap it on build which you change to have some might and other boons output, which you can do easily any profession has options to have boons. you also take some condi output to benefit from cele, which is also available on every profession.

On 6/27/2023 at 5:37 PM, hugeboss.5432 said:

If ur in a zerg, as a dps running full cele, ppl will be wondering why your dps is really low!

this is because condi damage does not work in current power meta. Nobody said cele is good in squad. except for semi support builds ofc.

On 6/27/2023 at 5:37 PM, hugeboss.5432 said:

Celestial has traditionally been one of the hardest to get & most expensive stat sets in game, it's been like that since launch. Without the added bonus stats, it drops in value & efficiency behind other stats.

maybe it was expensive,  it is not now. and before buff cele was much more used then soldiers or nomad, so why you say it would drop.

[senftube.6081]

Next Round !!!

[Burial.1958]

I think noody expressed very well what is problematic about Celes balance.  🙂

[Polar.8634]

1 minute ago, Burial.1958 said:

I think noody expressed very well what is problematic about Celes balance.  🙂

they did but legit info is buried in hundreds celedefend posts

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Polar.8634 said:

they did but legit info is buried in hundreds celedefend posts

he said noody.    noody is the guy from the video above.

he didnt say noBody. The B is missing on purpose.

but i also read nobody at first 😄

Edited July 13, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Random dude.5089]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:23 PM, senftube.6081 said:

This Video is a react of Valluns Video:

For me Cele is cleary overpowered. Yes there should be some easier picks expecially for newer Players but this is to much. Cut the Boonduration and lower the stats a bit @ArenaNet

 

cele gear is made for outnumbered playstyles , means if you run into a roamer with his cute pocket healer premade , you can actualy try and 1 v 2 , since your more tanky with healing and toughness , i dunked on actualy good players  with cele stats multiple times , yes cele is anoying to play against , but its puprose is made for 1 v 2 and 1 v 3 even just killing one guy and dying is at least fun , which is a roamer playstyle in case your world is getting dunked on consistantly and you can't even run 2 miles without finding 2/3 people sticking near each others , the whole community is fuming with cele builds yet anet didn't do anything about it ? why is that ? the answer is , if it was that broken , anet woud have nerfed it with the virtuoso nerf , since virtuoso was the most anoying class with cele build and rune of the defender , but clearly its not as broken as you think , a guy showing himself killing people with a cele build is not an evidence to show that its broken , i do this stuff with trailblazer and marauder too ,and there is youtube videos of people doing this with legit berserker and viper gear but i understand the frustration that people hate the build , but cele is made for people who run into the stinky premades that roam arround with 2/3 people with pocket healers.

[Burial.1958]

1 minute ago, Random dude.5089 said:

cele gear is made for outnumbered playstyles , means if you run into a roamer with his cute pocket healer premade , you can actualy try and 1 v 2 , since your more tanky with healing and toughness , i dunked on actualy good players  with cele stats multiple times , yes cele is anoying to play against , but its puprose is made for 1 v 2 and 1 v 3 even just killing one guy and dying is at least fun , which is a roamer playstyle in case your world is getting dunked on consistantly and you can't even run 2 miles without finding 2/3 people sticking near each others , the whole community is fuming with cele builds yet anet didn't do anything about it ? why is that ? the answer is , if it was that broken , anet woud have nerfed it with the virtuoso nerf , since virtuoso was the most anoying class with cele build and rune of the defender , but clearly its not as broken as you think , a guy showing himself killing people with a cele build is not an evidence to show that its broken , i do this stuff with trailblazer and marauder too ,and there is youtube videos of people doing this with legit berserker and viper gear but i understand the frustration that people hate the build , but cele is made for people who run into the stinky premades that roam arround with 2/3 people with pocket healers.

So rather plant a bloated Set Gear into the game instead of the players playing a MUTLIPLAYER game together. Makes sense.

[Random dude.5089]

1 minute ago, Burial.1958 said:

So rather plant a bloated Set Gear into the game instead of the players playing a MUTLIPLAYER game together. Makes sense.

yeah a multiplayer game where you get into 1 v 3 and getting stunned dazed heared doted by 3 people , yeah marauder will defenetly work in this kind of situation , or maybe let cele build so people can actualy have a significant fair fight against multiple people , if you get dunked on by cele , that doesn't change anything in your gameplay , tons of meta builds are not cele builds , if cele was this broken , nobody will run other builds , most of them still are even better or even equal to cele builds , like i said , i know people are mad about cele , but cele is not ruining your wvw roaming playstyle or anyone playstyle , its the opposite , its making you strong enough to deal with the pocket healers and their potential of giving all kind of boons to make your roaming life miserable , your also just proving my point and you clearly didn't bother to read what i typed , im gonna rephrase it again for you , cele is made for solo players that invest themselves into roaming , so if hes in a roaming situation where the pocket healer or the 5minute daze group gank him , he actualy have a chance since it makes him very bulky and can sustain against two people slaping his cheecks at the same time , do i realy need to explain again ? 

[Widebody.5071]

Well... you know the old sayings "win some lose some". "Win with humility, lose with grace, but do both with dignity".

[Burial.1958]

33 minutes ago, Random dude.5089 said:

yeah a multiplayer game where you get into 1 v 3 and getting stunned dazed heared doted by 3 people , yeah marauder will defenetly work in this kind of situation , or maybe let cele build so people can actualy have a significant fair fight against multiple people , if you get dunked on by cele , that doesn't change anything in your gameplay , tons of meta builds are not cele builds , if cele was this broken , nobody will run other builds , most of them still are even better or even equal to cele builds , like i said , i know people are mad about cele , but cele is not ruining your wvw roaming playstyle or anyone playstyle , its the opposite , its making you strong enough to deal with the pocket healers and their potential of giving all kind of boons to make your roaming life miserable , your also just proving my point and you clearly didn't bother to read what i typed , im gonna rephrase it again for you , cele is made for solo players that invest themselves into roaming , so if hes in a roaming situation where the pocket healer or the 5minute daze group gank him , he actualy have a chance since it makes him very bulky and can sustain against two people slaping his cheecks at the same time , do i realy need to explain again ? 

That has always been the case. xD I've been roaming for almost 11 years and it's the risk you take when you're solo. The fact is that WvW is a group mode and not really one for solo play. Especially since the balance is not designed for 1vs1 in WvW anyway. It is a multiplayer game at the end. 🤷‍♂️

And yet, that's still not a very good argument for having a set in WvW that simply has hardly any tradeoffs. Have you calculated how much more stat Cele has than the others? That's not just 20 more.....

A problem I also see -> newbies also never learn to dodge properly  & move because they simply eat the damage. Unfortunately, I see this very often in my roaming training courses.

[Pie.2167]

Cele excels at roaming because you have no else to rely on, it's all on you: survivability, boons, DPS, and healing.  It only makes sense that it would be the number one choice for roamers.

[Polar.8634]

9 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

he said noody.    noody is the guy from the video above.

he didnt say noBody. The B is missing on purpose.

but i also read nobody at first 😄

ye he got me there

[Polar.8634]

his example with rene is actually good i use it myself everytime regarding cele, because you can use absolutely same build for cele rene and power rene. So the only thing you change are stats, and when i jump on cele harb and cannot kill it with power i swap to cele and magic happens, now how is this called.

Said fight against harb happens often, last time was today, burst that can 100% --> 20% most players cele harb just eats from power and then heals to full before i get my cd for second burst back, he also eats 2 cc in between no dodges needed. So good strategy is when you see harb has caparace buff you just run away swap to cele and come back.

[Dawdler.8521]

7 hours ago, Random dude.5089 said:

cele gear is made for outnumbered playstyles

But according to people during the beta when worlds where evenly numbered against each other, everyone was outnumbered all the time so doesnt that mean cele is the ONLY proper gear everyone should use?

[Mell.4873]

Isn't the problem that you can have all the stats or only 4.

How about they just introduce 5 stat gear, 2 major 3 minor. 

[Dawdler.8521]

18 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Isn't the problem that you can have all the stats or only 4.

How about they just introduce 5 stat gear, 2 major 3 minor. 

Or the best option: simplify it to just 1 stat gear. 

Pick and choose.

[Lalary.3561]

16 hours ago, Random dude.5089 said:

cele gear is made for outnumbered playstyles , means if you run into a roamer with his cute pocket healer premade , you can actualy try and 1 v 2 , since your more tanky with healing and toughness , i dunked on actualy good players  with cele stats multiple times , yes cele is anoying to play against , but its puprose is made for 1 v 2 and 1 v 3 even just killing one guy and dying is at least fun , which is a roamer playstyle in case your world is getting dunked on consistantly and you can't even run 2 miles without finding 2/3 people sticking near each others , the whole community is fuming with cele builds yet anet didn't do anything about it ? why is that ? the answer is , if it was that broken , anet woud have nerfed it with the virtuoso nerf , since virtuoso was the most anoying class with cele build and rune of the defender , but clearly its not as broken as you think , a guy showing himself killing people with a cele build is not an evidence to show that its broken , i do this stuff with trailblazer and marauder too ,and there is youtube videos of people doing this with legit berserker and viper gear but i understand the frustration that people hate the build , but cele is made for people who run into the stinky premades that roam arround with 2/3 people with pocket healers.

You sure we are playing the same game? Every time I log on WvW, it's mostly cele or other bunker gear users hanging around tower gate portals and refuse to come out until they gain more numbers. Only reason everyone's not playing cele builds is it's BORING. Not everyone likes slow playstyle of solo boonball machine that can facetank most of bursts. And why the hell would Anet would nerf cele? It's no secret that they too are getting carried by the gears and builds.

Oh and those small groups with pocket healers; Why is it they always have cele or condi build as their DPSer when I confront them? Cele isn't made to counter premade, it only made premade even more out of control.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:26 PM, senftube.6081 said:

Next Round !!!

Does anyone actually listen to Noody? Historically his takes are almost as bad as FASTCAR, just with slightly less obvious trolling.  Lots of 'this build is unkillable' while showing dubious footage against players that may not share the same skill level.

I honestly don't think it's possible to answer if cele is broken or not...for instance anyone can post a roaming video--here is one of me doing some outnumbered and some random 1v1, then a duel at the end where I stop it because this was right after the June patch which heavily altered Druid play, and so was more of a test fight than anything:

Can anyone tell me if any of my opponenets were running cele?  I can't tell, and don't really care.  At the end of the day someone will say that I'm either more skilled than the opponents or that I'm running cele and that's why I won.  For the latter, I'm running a Dire/Trailblazer mix here so that would be wrong.

In fact, I'm running the same roaming build here I usually do, and this is after the removal of Ancient Seeds which people also said was OP.  Meaning, this iteration of the build is about a magnitude harder to play than before, and arguably weaker due to loss of mass bleed damage from Ancient Seeds.  

So really, if someone like me can roam on a non-meta condi Druid, blaming builds / overtuned specs is one thing, but blaming cele gear seems like blaming losing on your equipment. 

Basically, if you lose and whine about cele it's almost as bad as losing and blaming your keyboard / controller.  

[Zyreva.1078]

30 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I honestly don't think it's possible to answer if cele is broken or not...for instance anyone can post a roaming video--here is one of me doing some outnumbered and some random 1v1, then a duel at the end where I stop it because this was right after the June patch which heavily altered Druid play, and so was more of a test fight than anything:

Can anyone tell me if any of my opponenets were running cele?  I can't tell, and don't really care. 

Ofc it is possible to tell whether cele is op or not - just look at this thread and various arguments brought up. Obviously a roaming montage is not one of those arguments, because it indeed can be made by almost anyone and with pretty much any build, because WvW is full of bad players on bad builds. But do you really think, it is coincidence that the only player you didn't kill was running cele? And you even mentioned "cele harb" yourself in your video, so don't tell me "you don't know if they are cele or not". And it wasn't even the strongest harb build out there, nor was it a good player.

Also i have been roaming on druid quite a bit after the patch and love it. Feels actually stronger than before, less gimmicky and single target only, now it has some proper aoe pressure for 1vX and small scale as well as great sustain and boon spam thanks to nm rework and baseline cd reduction on WHaO. Still quite "stalemate-y" at times, but that's just druid and the overall meta. Just don't use the same build as before, that one is obviously weaker now. Oh - and use cele gear ofc. Druid can make good use of it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Ofc it is possible to tell whether cele is op or not - just look at this thread and various arguments brought up. Obviously a roaming montage is not one of those arguments, because it indeed can be made by almost anyone and with pretty much any build, because WvW is full of bad players on bad builds. But do you really think, it is coincidence that the only player you didn't kill was running cele? And you even mentioned "cele harb" yourself in your video, so don't tell me "you don't know if they are cele or not". And it wasn't even the strongest harb build out there, nor was it a good player.

Also i have been roaming on druid quite a bit after the patch and love it. Feels actually stronger than before, less gimmicky and single target only, now it has some proper aoe pressure for 1vX and small scale as well as great sustain and boon spam thanks to nm rework and baseline cd reduction on WHaO. Still quite "stalemate-y" at times, but that's just druid and the overall meta. Just don't use the same build as before, that one is obviously weaker now. Oh - and use cele gear ofc. Druid can make good use of it.

Yeah, actually I was just assuming the harb is cele as most people run it by default.  Honestly, I made too many mistakes in that fight or I would've won, cele or not.  

But...as I predicted the 'it wasn't a good player but cele is OP' comes into play here. 

I don't think so--cele had no bearing on any of the fights except as mentioned in vid and here possibly the last one; which was more of a test than anything and I didn't feel like resetting into another 5 min duel.  So, can cele outsustain my build? Absolutely, because Harb alone is a hard counter to it, so any comparisons here are kinda meaningless.

If cele were a problem, the thief/wb duo at the beginning should have wrecked me--downstate kept that going far longer than cele would.  Where are the mass influx of downstate is OP threads? We only have one active right now that I know of. 

Anyway, Druid having more AoE than before I don't understand unless you are now running some sort of power variant.  The build I show and run got significantly worse as none of the trait changes benefit it in the least (Eclipse is still far too low in damage too).

[Zyreva.1078]

35 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I don't think so--cele had no bearing on any of the fights except as mentioned in vid and here possibly the last one; which was more of a test than anything and I didn't feel like resetting into another 5 min duel.

"Cele has no bearing in fights where nobody runs cele". That's your argument? Really?

35 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Anyway, Druid having more AoE than before I don't understand unless you are now running some sort of power variant.  The build I show and run got significantly worse as none of the trait changes benefit it in the least (Eclipse is still far too low in damage too).

Blood Moon paired with (pulsing) aoe immob/cc adds a good amount of pressure, so does eclipse. Sword buffs also makes it a viable (imo better) alternative to staff and it pairs well with torch. Not having to run as much hard cc to proc ac also opens up axe/dagger over shortbow, which again offers more (aoe) dmg. On low cleanse targets i can still stack 25+ stacks of bleed alongside some poison and burning (if they don't die too fast).

Edited July 14, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

On 6/17/2023 at 12:51 AM, senftube.6081 said:

The guy in the video is even a skill clicker......

why does that even matter? 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

"Cele has no bearing in fights where nobody runs cele". That's your argument? Really?

No...I mean I don't think cele had any bearing in any of those fights. 

Basically, I don't run cele, and all the fights in that montage are easy to follow save for the last since it was unfinished.  Meaning the only fight there cele MAY have had a bearing on is the last, but I also admit I played poorly so I don't even know if it did there either.  I can't even remember if I asked the person if they were cele or if I had just assumed and put the 'cele harb' sticker on the video, that's how little it actually mattered to me.  

Seriously though, when a condi mech or harb randomly melts me, I'm not blaming cele, because the builds themselves allow that even if they were running other condition damage stats.

My point here is I think one of the reasons they haven't done anything about cele is it really is just a low intensity way to play WvW.  At a certain point either player skill overshadows the cele and it ceases to matter. 

To prove 'cele is OP' there would have to be a way to prove two players are identical in skill and that one of them is using cele and the other isn't and that's why they lost--this is nearly impossible as it isn't Chess where we have some sort of ELO and can argue the efficacy of cele like it's a chess opening.

[Random dude.5089]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:19 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

But according to people during the beta when worlds where evenly numbered against each other, everyone was outnumbered all the time so doesnt that mean cele is the ONLY proper gear everyone should use?

im talking about being outnumbered in roaming , means a 2 v 1 or 1 v 3 situations , and if your world in getting dunked on , you have a higher chance to be in these situations.

[schloumou.3982]

15 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

No...I mean I don't think cele had any bearing in any of those fights. 

Basically, I don't run cele, and all the fights in that montage are easy to follow save for the last since it was unfinished.  Meaning the only fight there cele MAY have had a bearing on is the last, but I also admit I played poorly so I don't even know if it did there either.  I can't even remember if I asked the person if they were cele or if I had just assumed and put the 'cele harb' sticker on the video, that's how little it actually mattered to me.  

Seriously though, when a condi mech or harb randomly melts me, I'm not blaming cele, because the builds themselves allow that even if they were running other condition damage stats.

My point here is I think one of the reasons they haven't done anything about cele is it really is just a low intensity way to play WvW.  At a certain point either player skill overshadows the cele and it ceases to matter. 

To prove 'cele is OP' there would have to be a way to prove two players are identical in skill and that one of them is using cele and the other isn't and that's why they lost--this is nearly impossible as it isn't Chess where we have some sort of ELO and can argue the efficacy of cele like it's a chess opening.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp for you and most folks in this thread whose wvw experience consists mostly of random dodging across borders on their condi builds and fighting random people on pve/zerg builds but there are people in this game with 10k+ hours of mainly dueling and they tend to know each other. When you duel the same person over and over on different builds and specs over years you can assess their skill and what impact various changes have.

Edited July 15, 2023 by schloumou.3982