Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:16 AM, Falson.5284 said:

Lots of good looking stuff in this announcement! One worrying thing though was that the bonuses from the runes are going to be split off into their own slot. The stats have honestly been a side benefit for the longest time, and being able to swap around freely and easily with the legendary runes to get the different effects was the most important part. In fact, the effects are what make the meta runes so expensive, with the off-meta ones simply being those that have the same or similar stats, but worse effects. Are they going to be adding a legendary relic do you think? And how long are we anticipating it will take to be added? Given how much money the rune set cost, it's kinda a waste to go for it now if you haven't already, and a bit annoying if you already got it.

You'll probably have to do those legendary again!  😂

[Pifil.5193]

12 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

I'd just like to say that, like so many others, I crafted my 7 Legendary Runes in order to be done with gathering and collecting Runes for good. That was the reason.

Obviously I don't know what your compensation plans are but if I have to now faff about farming for Relics for my 18 characters (with their multiple builds) now it will be a huge step back for me at the launch of the expansion.

I can't imagine how the people with max characters will feel about this.

[Astralporing.1957]

11 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

I don't feel they have any interest in adding a Legendary Relic right now. It feels to me that part of the reason for this change is to create a way for ArenaNet to give meaningful rewards for completing content:

Forgive me for not considering something that gives me back something i've already had to be a meaningful reward. That's pure hamster wheel/gear "progression" thinking, only raised to the extreme. At least in the case of gear progression there is a movement upward (although towards a ceiling that moves away from you at the same speed), but in this case it would be literallly having to grind to get back to where you were before.

[draxynnic.3719]

As some people have said, this is bigger than the legendary runes (although I can see why it would hurt the most for those who have them). Guild Wars has always been distinguished by carrying the principle that it won't take the WoW routine of invalidating your gear and forcing you to replace it every expansion. And that's what stripping the unique effect from the runesets is doing unless people who have complete runesets - legendary or otherwise - are given a means to keep the bonus they already have. They're taking something that the player has earned, taking it away, and forcing the player to re-earn it.

One relic box isn't going to cut it. A relic box per character isn't even going to cut it. People with legendary runes should get a legendary relic to retain the functionality they've earned (and this should be a trade that's available permanently, so people with incomplete legendary runesets now can complete the set). People who have regular runes should have some means to be able to get the relevant relic for each set of six runes they have. Perhaps equipped runesets should automatically convert to the new version of runes plus a relic, while runes that are in inventory tabs or banks get converted into tokens that can be converted (in sets of 6) into the new runes plus a relic.

[Pifil.5193]

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Forgive me for not considering something that gives me back something i've already had to be a meaningful reward. That's pure hamster wheel/gear "progression" thinking, only raised to the extreme. At least in the case of gear progression there is a movement upward (although towards a ceiling that moves away from you at the same speed), but in this case it would be literallly having to grind to get back to where you were before.

I'm right there with you, believe me.

[Pagan Highlander.5948]

 Wouldn't be easier to keep the existing legendary runes as they are and add additional benefits for grinding out the relics? i think that would be a much better option and have less of an impact for those of us that already have the legendary runes. it makes for a smoother method.

Myself personally am not happy about losing something I worked hard to obtain. Having that freedom to swap stats and the 6th affect of the runes  was the whole reason and purpose of obtaining legendary runes. Now being forced to grind out a currency to re obtain what I already have is not fair because I will be forced to play something I have no interest in playing because you wish to invalidate my hard work.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Pagan Highlander.5948

[pory.8420]

Adding to this just to weigh in. I will not be buying this expansion until it's confirmed that the runes I made so that I could maintain and try out every build whenever I want will retain that functionality. I don't care if anet is going to "compensate" me for it. They could send me six boxes that let me pick any other legendary in the game and it wouldn't replace what I actually crafted legendary runes for: not needing to fuss about to gain the effect that actually matters from runes on my builds.

 

If I have to go do chores to play the same builds I have right now, I'll just uninstall for six years like I did when anet first implemented ascended gear with a hard time gate that completely discouraged alt-based play.

Edited June 29, 2023 by pory.8420

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

Calm down, everyone will get an unidentified dye, some karma boosters, a birthday celebration booster and achievement points.

[yourexcellency.1458]

I pre-ordered with out seeing this. 😞 I'm so upset with myself for doing that now. I don't suppose there's a way to get a refund on it?

[SmokingLord.6108]

13 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

I really really hope the "compensate" here is something directly related to the functionality being removed and not some silly skin/box or whatever. Like others pointed out, maybe the bigger reason to have legendary runes is to gear up new characters and not have to worry about the upgrades (runes/sigils).

To be constructive, here some ways to solve it (sure its hard to guess since we don't really know how it'll work):

- If the relics are buyable, give enough "tokens" so we can have the functionality back. I this case I'm assuming I only need one of each relic PER ACCOUNT.

- Put the relic effect functionality in the runes like a dropdown similar when we pick gear stats.

- If the relics are earned by achievements, just give them once a player get their 6th leggy rune.

[draxynnic.3719]

14 minutes ago, SmokingLord.6108 said:

- If the relics are earned by achievements, just give them once a player get their 6th leggy rune.

Dear Dwayna, if there are relics that require a mursaat token-like "achievement", I am going to spit the proverbial dummy so hard.

[Scorcher.6428]

4 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Runes ramping up by sets has not been mentioned; no indication that it is going away at all.

It might be. It might not be. 

We really don't know much about how things will be implemented. So it's really weird how everyone is already asking for compensation...

[HotDelirium.7984]

7 hours ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Because it is/would be taking away. 6 legendary runes right now let you switch around that 6th bonus (the most important one). We would no longer be able to switch around that 6th bonus since that functionality is being moved to relics.

so they give anyone whose earned a legendary rune a legendary relic. Solved?

[Scorcher.6428]

4 hours ago, shinvold.3618 said:

The rune combination you're talking about doesn't mean much.
Matching only with the same type of runes is much more beneficial for stat bonuses.
Even if a relic comes out, it will generally be set only with the same rune.

The assumption is they have to be all a matching set for it to work? That's not really how I interpreted what Anet's post said as they were talking about having more flexibility.

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

As some people have said, this is bigger than the legendary runes (although I can see why it would hurt the most for those who have them). Guild Wars has always been distinguished by carrying the principle that it won't take the WoW routine of invalidating your gear and forcing you to replace it every expansion. And that's what stripping the unique effect from the runesets is doing unless people who have complete runesets - legendary or otherwise - are given a means to keep the bonus they already have. They're taking something that the player has earned, taking it away, and forcing the player to re-earn it.

One relic box isn't going to cut it. A relic box per character isn't even going to cut it. People with legendary runes should get a legendary relic to retain the functionality they've earned (and this should be a trade that's available permanently, so people with incomplete legendary runesets now can complete the set). People who have regular runes should have some means to be able to get the relevant relic for each set of six runes they have. Perhaps equipped runesets should automatically convert to the new version of runes plus a relic, while runes that are in inventory tabs or banks get converted into tokens that can be converted (in sets of 6) into the new runes plus a relic.

This is super whiny. A legendary rune allows you to instantly change your runes for free. That isn't changing so why do you need compensation? They are giving runes some QOL and optimizing them. If anything yall should be "complaining" about power creep...

[Inoke.8793]

I only recently made leggy runes (6) on my main. I made them specifically because I mainly spend my in game time in raids, strikes, and WvW. I'm still not done with EoD, outside of finishing story on one character, because I focus on group content. I raid 3-4, sometimes more, nights a week, completing raids multiple times, and WvW in group comped play. I have all armors, and am working on vision and sigil's. I have no interest in wanting to grind relics in the way people have described just to do the group content I already am geared to play nearly any spec with ease and have with multiple gear sets on each character. I do this to quickly adjust gear or gear new builds for the instanced content. And I have purchased a lot of equipment tabs. I'm starting to regret buying the expac so soon after reading through this thread.

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[draxynnic.3719]

13 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

This is super whiny. A legendary rune allows you to instantly change your runes for free. That isn't changing so why do you need compensation? They are giving runes some QOL and optimizing them. If anything yall should be "complaining" about power creep...

Because, unless there's something that we haven't been told, they're taking away functionality that had been earned and forcing people to re-earn it. Regardless of whether they had legendary runes or not. People who had legendary armour and stockpiles of runes to put in that armour are going to be set back almost as much. People who've been stockpiling runes in general so they can go and get whatever runes they need for a particular build are also going to get hit.

I'm, personally, in the latter category - I don't have legendary runes, but I've invested in having a bank of runes so I can flex to the build that a group needs if given a few minutes to do so.

This is something that ArenaNet have told us multiple times they wouldn't do - invalidating progress that the player has already made on their account.

This kinda needs to be resolved quickly, because even now this is a pretty big disincentive for people to gear new builds when they know that the rune system is going to be completely reconfigured in a couple of months - and that after a big balance patch which was supposed to encourage people to try new builds. It's also going to be a big hit to the endgame raiding/striking/etc community, at least for the first couple of weeks, because all those people who make things easier for everyone by having multiple builds and the ability to flex into whatever the group needs? Come the expansion release, from what we know, all of those people might be down to only having one build that's ready to go until they have the time and opportunity to farm the relics to replace the functionality they already had.

I can see the powercreep argument, since it does mean that there will be combinations that didn't exist before. Personally, I'd have been content for it to have been left well enough alone. But if they're going to change the system and they want to maintain the principle of not invalidating prior time spent, there needs to be a way to get relics out of the current runes.

Edited June 29, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Altriba.8092]

The changes to functionality, be it on legendary or regular runes should only come with that separated functionality being given to the players at the very least for the runes they have actively in use for non legendary runes and fully for all runes for legendary rune users.

Anything less is only going to prove very dissatisfying and mar the update.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Altriba.8092

[Eclipsiste.3251]

2 hours ago, misterman.1530 said:

How would you compensate for time spent grinding? I understand you can easily compensate the gold spent, but it's our time that's most precious. I think Leg Runes should become Relics: 6 runes = 6 Relics.

Very bad idea... It would be only 6 of the unique effects, among several dozens, and without account wide use. We need all unique effects and the possibility to use them on all alts, the ways it is right now with leg runes.

[Pagan Highlander.5948]

I've decided I will not be purchasing this Expansion at this time. There isn't much in it that I like, and until the explain Exactly how the relic system will work and how they are going to force us to grind for something we really didn't want or need.

[Heisen.2315]

Legendary Relic?

[Adzekul.3104]

15 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

... We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes ...

WTF? That makes it sound like nobody even considered legendary runes when the concept was created, and then scoped and then developed and then reviewed and then implemented.

I am not interested in compensation. I want the legendary functionality, and the only solution that I would consider to be acceptable would be the so called "legendary relics" concept, but I do not know how it would work. Basically I would expect to have full access to all relics on expansion go live, on the basis that I have invested a tonne of time and resources into a full set of 7 legendary runes (or even 6 for those who have not quite finished the journey).

[misterman.1530]

45 minutes ago, Eclipsiste.3251 said:

Very bad idea... It would be only 6 of the unique effects, among several dozens, and without account wide use. We need all unique effects and the possibility to use them on all alts, the ways it is right now with leg runes.

Actually, you are correct. I forgot that Relics replace the 6th tier of the Runes.

[kiroho.4738]

13 hours ago, konzen.2348 said:

I vote for a legendary relic please.

I really hope not.
Relicts are finally something new equipment wise. New content.
I really don't want this content taken away from me with a legendary recilt, just because I have 7 legendary runes.
It would make the whole relict topic boring af.

[Adzekul.3104]

7 minutes ago, kiroho.4738 said:

I really hope not.
Relicts are finally something new equipment wise. New content.
I really don't want this content taken away from me with a legendary recilt, just because I have 7 legendary runes.
It would make the whole relict topic boring af.

This is the reward for investing in legendaries. New content is nice and desirable and some of us can't get enough. But ignoring my time and effort and resources, or worse yet, disrespecting it by thinking it can be refunded, is borderline offensive.