Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Thief

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

The Weaponmaster Training beta event for Secrets of the Obscure is open to all Guild Wars 2 players from June 29 until July 2! Try out the combat changes that are coming with SotO on August 22 and let us know what you think. You can leave your feedback for the thief in this thread.

[RedCobra.7693]

Scepter Daredevil here I come o.0

[javialf.2384]

I can't wait for rifle DD, but im kinda worried with the synergies of Specter since is condition based, but im sure condi DD scepter will be fantastic!

[LyraOrpheo.8450]

I think unfortunately Rifle won't see much use since it does nothing without M7 and Malicious Stealth attacks, even dual pistols right now dealing sub-support level damage would give you more bang for your buck.

Specially with Specter which is both hard-locked to Torment-only damage and the initiative cap being very punishing for anything that isn't Scepter with Trickery, it gets no benefit from either Staff or Rifle (or any other existing weapons for that matter). 

Scepter may give to Deadeye what players lost when Condi Pistol/Dagger was gutted and left for dead. Staff Deadeye is probably going to be the one winner here.

Edited June 28, 2023 by LyraOrpheo.8450

[Jumpel.3972]

4 minutes ago, LyraOrpheo.8450 said:

I think unfortunately Rifle won't see much use since it does nothing without M7 and Malicious Stealth attacks, even dual pistols right now dealing sub-support level damage would give you more bang for your buck.

I belive Daredevil with rifle and bound will have a huge spam stealth troll potential with the 4#

[GetFoxxed.9478]

I can already say - buff the staff on specter, that thing needs some proper cleave.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

My only concern with the thief portion right now is that if you took specter to use other weapons, you cant really do much with it because the balance team still has not yet increased or reverted the initiative starting out on specter as BASE initiative...which will make other weapons useless on specter. please look into this

[kidbuu.4071]

Looking forward to see what specter can do with a staff.

[Szymon.5369]

12 hours ago, LyraOrpheo.8450 said:

I think unfortunately Rifle won't see much use since it does nothing without M7 and Malicious Stealth attacks, even dual pistols right now dealing sub-support level damage would give you more bang for your buck.

Generally I agree, the damage will likely be very underwhelming, but comparing to go-to ranged pvp options (shortbow) it gains higher range and ST damage while keeping a movement skill on that weapon set, and even gets to have a projectile block in that deal. I see some trolling potential on Daredevil.

[SlayerXX.7138]

Rifle/staff daredevil lets go!
So much stuff to try out.

Edited June 29, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[javialf.2384]

1 hour ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Rifle/staff daredevil lets go!
So much stuff to try out.

This one is gonna be so fun, I totally support that idea

[Loboling.5293]

12 hours ago, kidbuu.4071 said:

Looking forward to see what specter can do with a staff.

One leap and oom. 

[Doggie.3184]

An immediate issue with this is any Specter build that doesn't use Scepter and doesn't use Condition Damage is basically missing a Minor Trait and an entire Spec mechanic since Rot Weiler Venom will do absolutely nothing. Maybe change Dark Sentry to just be a part of the first node, Siphon, and put a more universal Minor trait in it's place? Or you could replace the Venom's Condition Damage with Siphon Health damage and essentially make it somewhat like Vampiric Aura which could benefit both types of damage builds? It will still have minimal application without Scepter though.

One method to apply the Venoms to allies is with the 2nd Minor and Blasting Smoke Fields to provide Stealth to them but Specter doesn't have enough Initiative to pull off combos like that. 

Another issue right off the bat is with every class having Rifle and Scepter what exactly could an Anet employee do to sell us on Dual Pistols and Mainhand Pistol in general if they were to think of them as a Product and us the Customers?

The Pistol Weaponsets are going to lose whatever niche value they currently have since both Scepter and Rifle essentually fill the same exact roles and playstyles Pistol/Dagger and Pistol/Pistol currently do except they actually do damage and pistols do not. The skills between these sets are way too similar, Scepter/Pistol and Pistol/Dagger even both suffer from the ultra annoying self-knockback on their Dual Attacks... and none of any of these weapons provide any good AoE. Pistol main hand will basically be completely dead without buffs~ is that the actual intention? Are Thief MH Pistols a specific product you do not wish to sell us? You could at least redesign them to be a heavy AoE weapon again with Ricochet to give it some kinda role for itself.

[UNOwen.7132]

Alright, first impressions: This doesnt really add much to thief. Rifle is as expected rubbish outside Deadeye, losing both the thing that makes the stealth attack any good and the traits that make the weapon itself good for no benefit I can notice. Staff is a PvE power weapon with most of its damage coming from autoattacks, meaning that both DE who facilitates spamming skills and Spectre, a condi-focused traitline, do not benefit from it. The only one that stands out as having potential is exactly Scepter, but without Rotveil venom and with the high initiative cost in PvP, Im not really seeing it being useful either.

[Yureii.4236]

Scepter skills do not generate any Malice with Deadeye

[kash.9213]

23 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Alright, first impressions: This doesnt really add much to thief. Rifle is as expected rubbish outside Deadeye, losing both the thing that makes the stealth attack any good and the traits that make the weapon itself good for no benefit I can notice. Staff is a PvE power weapon with most of its damage coming from autoattacks, meaning that both DE who facilitates spamming skills and Spectre, a condi-focused traitline, do not benefit from it. The only one that stands out as having potential is exactly Scepter, but without Rotveil venom and with the high initiative cost in PvP, Im not really seeing it being useful either.

I don't see the gimmick benefit either, like none of these even offer up a clutch getaway skill that the respective builds didn't already have some form of unless I'm lazily overlooking something.

Good point about the secondary modifiers like with Rot Wallow Venom. Some secondary mods like that are a supplement for a poor rate of fire or output but that's balanced for the intended build.

I appreciate being given some toys to play with and maybe there will be some standout combos but this feels like a lack of expansion feature ideas. 

[TheThief.8475]

27 minutes ago, Yureii.4236 said:

Scepter skills do not generate any Malice with Deadeye

This^ except skill 3 without any off hand equipped. When you have only specter equipped skill 3 is the only skill that can generate malice as intended.

[SlayerXX.7138]

You can't move during judgment on non deatheye builds.

[Doggie.3184]

Staff Deadeye could be fun if you gave Staff a Malicious Stealth Attack that actually did damage. Why does all it do is add Quickness? Traits already give a lot of that.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Impling.4170]

Any kind soul mind providing a tooltip for Malicious Shadowsquall? Would like to know what it does differently.

[ZerFrost.3542]

As I thought, this doesnt add much to thief. Now if we had offhands maybe it could have done more, but having 2 2H and 1 1H, it really didnt do this hype a great deal.

[Flobings.7251]

21 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

My only concern with the thief portion right now is that if you took specter to use other weapons, you cant really do much with it because the balance team still has not yet increased or reverted the initiative starting out on specter as BASE initiative...which will make other weapons useless on specter. please look into this

I was thinking Trickery would be required for exactly this reason but playing with it the damage boost from the Critical Strikes or Deadly Arts lines seems about the same (for Staff at least). 

Not quite as much damage as condi due to basically losing rot wallow but for most content it should work. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

Just now, Impling.4170 said:

Any kind soul mind providing a tooltip for Malicious Shadowsquall? Would like to know what it does differently.

Increase poison duration. Bonus duration per stack 25%.

[Impling.4170]

1 minute ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Increase poison duration. Bonus duration per stack 25%.

Great, thanks so much!

[Doggie.3184]

On 6/29/2023 at 1:39 PM, Impling.4170 said:

Any kind soul mind providing a tooltip for Malicious Shadowsquall? Would like to know what it does differently.

It increases poison duration. Staff's is pewp.

Also, you guys gonna fix Bounding Dodge not taking personal combo field priority so people don't override my Black Powder? If there's any field whatsoever under my Black Powder, even if I placed mine after theirs, it always takes theirs over mine when I use Bound Dodge. This will continue to be an issue with Daredevil Scepter/Pistol.

And so far WvW Celestial Daredevil Scepter/Pistol does feel like a total replacement of the current Pistol/Pistol variant but it comes with a lot more features such as a piercing AoE (despite annoying to use cuz of shadowsteps) and self+ally support, better cc an extra weakness to replace Hidden Thief for more condi removal... Only loss is combo finishers on the stealth attack for Cloaked in Shadows which is easily replaced with Leeching Venoms and better damage overall. Pretty good for WvW, aside from Black Powder combo field bug preventing me from using it near allies.

Video of BP bug: https://streamable.com/rxzt8n

With Pistol/Pistol variant you basically only used your first mainhand skill and Black Powder with very limited variety in how you attack. MH Pistol most certainly feels completely dead by this if you don't redesign it to be more unique.

Probably still the case for Berserker Rifle VS P/P Unload but haven't compared the damage yet~ either way... same weapon concept. plz fix pew pewstals. 😅

Edited July 2, 2023 by Doggie.3184