June 27 Balance Follow-Ups

[Gaiawolf.8261]

17 hours ago, Requiem.9648 said:

Well that will be very cool in PVE if all boons giver can have same standard of range AoE. Totaly agree and all have possiblity to pre-buffing or remove the pre-buffing from all of them to make sure they all follow same standard especialy for fractal or open world.

 

Yes, please. More of this. Bumping, because Mukluk (and Mando) told me This is the the Way.

Out of all modern GW2 combat, the 2 things that drive me nuts with group content in this game are 1) 100% boon uptime, and even more so, 2) stacking in a tiny melee circle with a kitten rifle! Range on support options would greatly alleviate the second problem.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

 @Cal Cohen.2358

 Proposed changes for PvP support warrior,   mostly through the Tactics traitline

Roaring Reveille - this skill should also grant 3-5 stacks of might on both warhorn skills

Empowering Allies - this trait should now grant AoE might on weapon swap and/or increases might duration by 20%

Mending Might (minor trait) - this should now heal allies when granting them might, buff healing value. 

Banner of Tactics - This banner should now be instant cast AND stunbreak for the warrior. 

as you can see, my changes focus on integrating might application with healing allies. This fits thematically with warrior and will increase viability. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by WhoWantsAHug.3186

[Yerlock.4678]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:20 PM, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone, 

As always, thank you for all the feedback you’ve shared over the past few weeks. We’ve been keeping a close eye on the discussion and it’s clear that some of the changes in Tuesday’s update didn’t land as we’d intended. Today I’ll be sharing our current plan for the next update on July 18, much of which is intended to address the most pressing issues that have been raised. 

Leading up to that release we’ll be watching your feedback to this post, this week’s beta test, and the June 27 update, and may make additional changes as needed. 

 

Thanks, 

Cal “cmc” Cohen 

Skills and Balance Lead 

Scourge 

Alacrity scourge is a build that we were pretty cautious with during development; we were concerned about the potential power level that could result from giving the existing heal scourge build easy access to alacrity, and to mitigate this we reduced the strength of some of its key defensive support skills. Now that the release has been live for a few days, we agree that the changes were too heavy handed, and we’ll be pulling back the reductions to Sand Cascade’s barrier as well as the barrier component of Desert Empowerment. We’ll also be giving scourge a reliable source of group protection through Sandstorm Shroud, and increasing the base alacrity duration to make it a bit easier to maintain. 

Damage scourge builds were negatively impacted by some of the changes made for alacrity scourge, and the July 18 release will include some larger adjustments to bring them back up.  

Sand Cascade: Increased base barrier from 996 to 1188 in PvE only. Increased barrier attribute scaling from 1.25 to 2 in PvE only. 

• Desert Empowerment: Increased alacrity duration from 1 second to 1.5 seconds in PvE only. Increased base barrier from 385 to 572 in PvE only. Increased barrier attribute scaling from 0.75 to 1.0 in PvE only. 
• Sandstorm Shroud: This skill now grants 1.5 seconds of protection to nearby allies each pulse, and 3 seconds of protection to nearby allies on detonation. 
• Fell Beacon: This trait no longer reduces the cooldown of torch skills, and now also increases the damage of burning you inflict by 10%. 
• Harrowing Wave: Reduced cooldown from 20 seconds to 16 seconds in PvE only. Increased the life force per target from 3% to 5% in PvE only. 
• Oppressive Collapse: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only. Increased might radius from 240 to 360. Might application per condition is now capped at 7 condtions in PvE only. 
• Sadistic Searing: This trait has been reworked, and causes Nefarious Favor to burn nearby enemy targets (2 stacks, 5 seconds in PvE, 1 stack, 4 seconds in PvP/WvW).  
• Demonic Lore: Increased torment damage bonus from 25% to 33% in PvE only.  
• Sand Sage: This trait has been reworked. Gain expertise and concentration while you have an active sand shade (225 in PvE, 150 in PvP/WvW). 
• Blood as Sand: This trait has been reworked. Reduce all incoming damage while you have an active sand shade (15% in PvE, 7% in PvP/WvW). 
   

Druid 

Druid is in a similar situation to scourge in that we were overly conservative with its alacrity, so it is also getting an increase to its base duration. We’ve also seen feedback regarding druid’s might generation, and we’re bumping up both the stacks and duration on Spirited Arrival to address this.

• Grace of the Land: Increased alacrity duration from 0.75 seconds to 1 second in PvE only. 
• Spirited Arrival: Increased might stacks from 3 to 6 in PvE only. Increased might duration from 9 seconds to 12 seconds in PvE only. 
   

Untamed 

Quickness untamed has a few issues that we’re tackling in the July 18 release. The first being a usability improvement for Let Loose’s ambush-reset component: triggering the ambush reset while in the unleashed state will now immediately grant access to the ambush skill instead of requiring a transition out of and back into the unleashed state. We’re also making a slight increase to the quickness duration to make it easier to maintain.

• Let Loose: Increased quickness duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds in PvE only. This trait will now immediately grant access to unleashed ambush skills when swapping weapons while in the unleashed state. 
   

Herald 

The new implementation for quickness herald is another case that we’re looking to improve. The current timing around its quickness application can be clunky and hard to track due to the 3 second pulse interval. To address this, we’ll be rebalancing the duration around a 1 second pulse interval to make it a bit more responsive. We’ve also seen concerns around the reduction in boon uptimes due to the loss of extra facet pulses from Draconic Echo, and are giving additional sources of concentration to help mitigate this. Our hope is that these changes will improve the overall gameplay feel of quickness herald, but if we’re still seeing issues with the general implementation after the July 18 update, we will evaluate whether a larger rework is needed. 

• Elevated Compassion: Reduced quickness pulse interval from 3 seconds to 1 second. Reduced quickness duration from 3 seconds to 1.25 seconds. This trait now converts 13% of the herald’s power into concentration in addition to its other effects. 
• Reinforced Potency: Increased concentration from 120 to 240 in PvE only. 
• Shared Empowerment: Increased might duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvE only.
   

Deadeye 

Quickness deadeye is significantly overperforming where it should be damage-wise. This was partially due to a bug that caused Malicious Intent to be active when not equipped, but looking beyond that fix it’s clear that additional reductions will be needed. We’re still discussing exactly what changes will be made, but they will be finalized in time for the July release and will likely include a reduction to One in the Chamber’s damage bonus. 

 

Specter 

Alacrity specter is another build that is overperforming in terms of damage. This is partially due to the base alacrity duration being long enough to require minimal investment into concentration, but also due to the lack of a significant damage tradeoff in the grandmaster trait slot. We’ll be tuning up Strength of Shadows while bringing down some of specter’s other damage sources to bring the alacrity build more in line without negatively affecting the damage builds. 

Lastly, we’re increasing the protection duration of Shadow Sap to ensure that healing-focused specter builds have a reliable source of group protection. 

• Shadestep: Reduced alacrity duration from 2 seconds to 1.25 seconds in PvE only. 
• Strength of Shadows: This trait no longer reduces incoming damage and no longer increases the duration of torment inflicted by Rot Wallow Venom, but instead increases torment damage by 25% in addition to converting vitality to expertise. 
• Larcenous Torment: This trait no longer increases torment damage, and instead steals health from an enemy when you apply torment to them. 
• Shadow Sap: Increased protection duration from 2.5 seconds to 4 seconds in PvE only. 
   

Alacrity Willbender 

A big pain point with alacrity willbender is its inability to provide alacrity during phase transitions or other times where it can’t strike an enemy. We’re hoping to mitigate this by updating Phoenix Protocol to grant some alacrity on the activation of resolve, which can also be shared via Battle Presence. We’ve also cleaned up some aftercasts and made general improvements to animations for a few key damage skills with the goal of making the overall gameplay feel a bit more fluid. 

• Phoenix Protocol: this trait now grants alacrity to the willbender when activating Flowing Resolve (5 seconds in PvE, 3 seconds in PvP/WvW), which can be shared to allies with Battle Presence. Reduced the alacrity duration when resolve triggers from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in PvE only.  
• Restorative Virtues: This trait now grants vigor instead of alacrity. 
• Symbol of Resolution: This skill can now be interrupted by other skills.  
• Ray of Judgment: Reduced aftercast  
• Binding Blade: This skill will now use a different animation with less aftercast. 
   

Alacrity Mirage 

Last up is a rework to how mirage grants alacrity. We want there to be a better distinction between alacrity and non-alacrity builds, which is something that can be a bit blurry at times due to Chaos Vortex granting alacrity with no investment. This alacrity is being rolled into a rework of Mirage Mantle that improves all ambush skills in various ways, which can be seen in the patch note below. 

• Mirage Mantle: This trait has been reworked. Ambush skills are improved. 
• Axes of Symmetry: Also inflicts cripple 
• Mirage Thrust: Removes a boon from struck foes 
• Ether Barrage:  Grants quickness to self (1.5 seconds)  
• Split Surge: Deals increased damage (25% in PvE, 10 in PvP/WvW) 
• Chaos Vortex: AoE Alacrity (2.5 seconds for the player, 0.5 seconds for clones) 
• Ambush Assault: Grants might to self 
• Wave of Panic : Also inflicts torment 

You didn’t want to hotfix nerf cata in pvp? It’s single handedly killing the mode. 
It’s just needless suffering for that mode, and is really depressing as it’s killing what’s left of the pvp community.

[Lalary.3561]

Absolutely dog kitten balance patch. As if willbender, catalyst and harbinger needed any more buffs.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Lalary.3561

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 minute ago, Lalary.3561 said:

Absolutely dog kitten balance patch. As if willbender and harbinger needed any more buffs.

Huh? Do you even play alacbender? It's a clunky mess with abysmal QoL.

[Lalary.3561]

4 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Huh? Do you even play alacbender? It's a clunky mess with abysmal QoL.

I wasn't talking about PvE balance.

[Eddie.9143]

Cata.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

24 minutes ago, Lalary.3561 said:

I wasn't talking about PvE balance.

The only willbender buff in the new patch will be PVE focused. The rest are just QoL improvements for core skills.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Tiviana.2650]

On 7/6/2023 at 3:36 AM, Burnfall.9573 said:

June 27 Balance Follow-Ups

Two of the highest Hitbox Benchmark Professions after "balance" patch

 

-Thief Profession-Deadeye--47k-

 

-Elementalist Profession--53k 

 

The Community already know the norm practice of Favoritism, Bias and Guild Wars 2 Toxic Culture

 -The Community no longer surprised by Anet Philosophy, Mission, Culture and Vision for Guild Wars 2-

 

Anet, What You Tolerate Won't Change...It Will Always Continue......Endlessly

The power creep isnt creeping its full on racing ahead! Oh another note shade duration is the problem, hello?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Tiviana.2650

[Eddie.9143]

Give ONLY core engi reduced tool kit cds.

[Noro.2879]

Spoiler

Arc Divider

 

[doc.9162]

barh, they aren't listening. sucked the fun right out the game with this patch.

[AresGuildwars.6372]

It's not too late to just revert to before the last patch instead :3 

[Halbarz.3854]

While you are updating druid alacrity anyway --> make the radius larger (not for the heal) but for the boon sharing. 

It's ridiculous that people need to stack like Tetris blocks so we can give alacrity

[Serephen.3420]

On 7/8/2023 at 5:19 AM, gmmg.9210 said:

You didn’t want to hotfix nerf cata in pvp? It’s single handedly killing the mode. 
It’s just needless suffering for that mode, and is really depressing as it’s killing what’s left of the pvp community.

There is always a class "killing" pvp. But imo, pvp already died a long time ago. Hence it gets no more support apart from minor touch ups like raids.

[JPUlisses.8756]

Druid needs buffs the most.

[Izaak.3945]

In terms of the Signet of Suffering necro nerf, be consistent and apply this to Perfect Inscriptions, Mech Core: JDrive, and Written In Stone and then lets see how well received this goes.

It's also upsetting there is not 1 reply from ArenaNet staff on any feedback sent pre or post patch.  Some great suggestions and explanations on how to better fix the combat / why these changes are not fun to play are littered all over the Profession forums.  The staff claim to be listening but clearly just ignoring.  At a minimum just a simple explanation why each drastic change is occurring is not much to ask for, would go a very long way so we can try to understand the reasoning vs assuming the imbalance devs are randomly throwing a dart at a classes trait line and nerfing where it ends up...

[Viper.2436]

4 hours ago, JPUlisses.8756 said:

Druid needs buffs the most.

What should we warriors say?

Edited July 10, 2023 by Viper.2436

[Jessika.4316]

Untamed might still need a slight buff in PvE. It's much better but still not a totally viable PvE build over some of the others.

[Burnfall.9573]

10 hours ago, JPUlisses.8756 said:

Druid needs buffs the most.

I also main Ranger Profession. Have you played against Ranger Profession-Condition Druid? It is broken

 

That puts Ranger Profession-Druid Conditions, close to Engineer Profession-Condition. Necromancer Profession whose Identity and Role are Specialize in Pure Conditions.

That is a Intolerable!!, Inexcusable!!

Therefore; Engineer Profession, Mesmer Profession, Warrior Profession and Ranger Profession conditions must be severely reduced beneath Necromancer Profession.

1st Rule-

A non-specialize Profession should never outperform a pure specialize Profession especially when it their Identity and Role

Necromancer Profession Identity and Role are Conditions....

Absoultely, No Professions Should  Be Its Equal Or Above It

Period!!

 

There are no regard, no Respect for Profession Identity and their roles. This is the reason why Professions are out of control...

BECAUSE ROLES ARE NOT IN PLACE AND IDENTITES ARE BEING STOLEN AND HIJACKED 

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks

Edited July 10, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Dorsai.1458]

Get rid of alac and quickness being sharable buffs.   People build stupidly around these buffs and complain if they can't easily provide 100% uptime.  It would make balancing a hell of a lot easier too.

[Crowface.3287]

4 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

I also main Ranger Profession. Have you played against Ranger Profession-Condition Druid? It is broken

That puts Ranger Profession-Druid Conditions, close to Engineer Profession-Condition. Necromancer Profession whose Identity and Role are Specialize in Pure Conditions.

One of my fears is that Anet will see videos like this, shrug, and say "See? Look - Druid is good! I don't know what they're all whining about. Druid is performing better than ever!"

Maybe I'm in the weird minority here, but I have absolutely zero interest in playing Condi Druid. Yes, fine, it's busted, it's strong - no argument there. I've got Condi Virtuoso if I want to pump damage.

I main my Druid to be a squad/party support, specifically Alac Heal Druid. The upcoming changes on July 17th are a step in the right direction, but they certainly aren't a comprehensive fix for all the changes that were made. Some kind of tweak so it was faster/easier to build up your CA form's bar would help significantly.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Alacrity generation bound to CA form, but if we're stuck with that, it still needs work.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Crowface.3287

[Kushikime.1460]

Revert boon corrupt changes.

[Batalix.2873]

1 hour ago, Crowface.3287 said:

One of my fears is that Anet will see videos like this, shrug, and say "See? Look - Druid is good! I don't know what they're all whining about. Druid is performing better than ever!"

Maybe I'm in the weird minority here, but I have absolutely zero interest in playing Condi Druid. Yes, fine, it's busted, it's strong - no argument there. I've got Condi Virtuoso if I want to pump damage.

I main my Druid to be a squad/party support, specifically Alac Heal Druid. The upcoming changes on July 17th are a step in the right direction, but they certainly aren't a comprehensive fix for all the changes that were made. Some kind of tweak so it was faster/easier to build up your CA form's bar would help significantly.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Alacrity generation bound to CA form, but if we're stuck with that, it still needs work.

I generally agree with this sentiment.

I think abandoning actual specialization roles after HoT was actually a bad move. Some of the most unique especs in the game up until recently were those designed more heavily around support/heal/tank identities: Druid, Herald, Tempest, Scrapper, Chrono.

And while I like that finally broken all-rounders like FB, Scourge, and Mech have finally been pulled back into lower DPS support niches, the damage has already been done. Now every espec has a damage traitline, and unique support niches like rezScourge and burst healers like Herald and Druid have generally lost a lot of unique utility in service of everything homogenizing toward "DPS + alac/quickness".

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the idea of support barrier-Scourge and would like to see more fleshing out of that identity. But Scourge never needed to also be a high DPS class to begin with, and clearly the devs are prioritizing DPS too much in the restructuring. Instead of carving design space out of the DPS traits, they have decided to instead take a hacksaw to the heal/support traits to make room for alacrity, as if each class is only allowed one support line.

And I think that sucks and makes for really boring design, and largely why I am taking a break from the game. I was never lacking for DPS classes, but as someone who prefers mages, supports, healers, tanks, that design space is increasingly getting shoved out and giving me fewer and fewer options that satisfy those archetypal fantasies. More and more non-DPS identities are being transitioned into "DPS+" identities, and boons becoming even more passively traited to pure DPS builds, which is just boring for someone like me who would rather feel like I am making a deliberate decision in how I want to contribute to combat.

I don't think anyone really *wanted* DPS Druid or Tempest. And frankly I would have been playing FB, Scourge, and Mech a lot more from the beginning if they actually were pure support/technical classes instead of just lazy "unearned passive DPS" builds.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Halbarz.3854]

Let's be honest, we all know we can expect Guardians to get more buffs in the next few balance patches. it's the weakest class in the game /sarcasm 😛