Bring Ele' Down To Par For Once.

[Gorani.7205]

Quote

Bring Ele' Down To Par For Once.

This sounds like that the whole Ele line was above everything else forever, at it clearly hasn't been that way.
- Right now, Cata is very strong and I fully agree it has to be looked at, but what about Willbenders and Harbingers? Are those as problematic? I think yes.
- Weaver is for the "expert piano player", still good. Effectiveness in 1v1 or small fights goes down significantly with less skill. Head rolling on keyboard / pushing any buttons don't work if you are honest.
- Tempest profited from the Scepter buffs a while ago (which have been slightly shaved since then) but only when people say that Tempest is strong, they probably see a switch to Alacrity abilities which other Elites had for years and Tempest just caught up with the rest.
- Core Ele is dead weight since HoT, when we had the Tempest coming up. It is OK to make core skills and traits better. It would only be problematic if those changes would benefit Catalyst the most via some sort of synergy.

As as an example Scourges had a very long time, until they got nerfed after the PoF release. That was horrible. If Catas (not the other Elites or Core Ele) will stay in that area, people should be frustrated. But will ANet be quicker and more willing to turn down the dial on Cata? They unleash more balls to juggle with SotO when more weapons become available - on top of the unbalanced state of current things - just pray to Dwayna guys. The only thing left to do for us.

[asterix.9614]

Let ele be op for once. It was pretty much useless for solo roaming for so long, and not as if the other classes don't have stupid op builds.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Hear me out. Turn Auras into boons.

[solemn.9670]

On 7/9/2023 at 1:10 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

Your bias is insanely funny. Ele had strong cele roamer builds before cata. Cele cata doesnt "bring ele to the brokeness level of other builds" it creates a whole new level of broken that very few builds can contest, definitely not top.

The core thing is not an argument, there is almost no one roaming on core builds. Definitely  nothing spectacular on core.

As for the "its hard to play" argument... lol. Its power builds are hard to play, absolutely. Its cele builds are at best a pve rotation with occassional def cd rotation, at worst just button mashing.

When did I even remotely defend cele ele builds lmao. Are you confusing me with someone else, did you reply to the wrong person? I roam on core all the time and still beat most players LOL. That's why it so funny that non-ele players think it's so broken but half the things I do daily they think are impossible.

[The Raven.1320]

Jitters, when not even cele virt can carry you in a 1v1 it might be a skill issue. 

[Nefras.7314]

6 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

(2) Went to GuildJen for a build.

First mistake

[fuzzyp.6295]

For once lol.... Eles dropped from the meta back in 2015 and have only just resurfaced as a top tier class (with a small bump in late 2019 when Fire Weaver took off before the power split nerf in 2020 knocking them back to a mid tier class)

Why not talk about the real issue: Celestial armor stat needs to be looked at. This will fix 90% of the problems... And I say this as someone who likes cele

Edited July 10, 2023 by fuzzyp.6295

[Exzen.2976]

Haha, wow. "For once" xDD A post from someone who really hasn't played the game long. Ele was trash tier in WvW not too long ago.

However, I like things to be balanced, including the class I main. I do agree cata needs a look at and tempest too tbh. Both are kinda op specifically when mixed with cele - not hugely surprising when you consider ele boonspam is very much linked to auras.

I echo Fuzzyp above. A nerf to cele solves a lot of the problems by toning down the builds ppl are complaining about on the forums (not just ele).

[bluberblasen.9684]

Haha

Blaming ele ( I think you mean cata/ especially 900 range celestial cata),

when harbinger and willbender are way more over powered.

Ah and no word on thiefs... Rofl lol

 

[Jitters.9401]

17 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

That's why it so funny that non-ele players think it's so broken but half the things I do daily they think are impossible.

Not impossible. 

The fact that when I can boon steal protection from an ele and the duration I have stolen  has run between 19 and 26 seconds. That is another powered thing, not an impossible one. Huge difference. 

Or when an ele is put into a downed state at the front lines of two blogs fighting,  then that ele mist forms to the back lines to be revived. Noone else is given that get out of jail free card.

That isn't impossible. That is an OP ability.

Or when an ele does not need to target to hit because of the many AOE capabilities, while their opponent has to actually target to use combat skills.... again.. not impossible but unfair.

 

If you can do all these things while the opponent you fight cannot, then it isn't you having awesome skills.  It is you having an easy mode set up to win while your opponent has to jump hurdles because they are not allowed the same opportunities. 

 

All you need to do is look at your skills/abilities,  then ask yourself. "Can my opponent do that?".  Then you have your answer... skill or easy mode.

[babana.7521]

18 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

When did I even remotely defend cele ele builds lmao. Are you confusing me with someone else, did you reply to the wrong person? I roam on core all the time and still beat most players LOL. That's why it so funny that non-ele players think it's so broken but half the things I do daily they think are impossible.

by what you said here, ele is definitely OP. 

[Random dude.5089]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:16 PM, solemn.9670 said:

Honestly you can think whatever you want, and be as smug as you like, since you're still wrong and bad. If you want to complain about pvp sure, I'm down for nerfing ele in pvp. Who isn't? But in WvW? Lmfao. Go play the class and see how you do. You'll get stomped 😂

we all know catalyst is broken , there is no need for you act too agitated in an online argument , yes there is also willbender that is also broken , yes there is also harb that is also broken , but there is a difference between someone who can duel one guy and one guy who can duel 3 guys and have tons of boons and sustain with all boons given by jade spheres and defensives ,  but if the subject is about eli , nobody gonna go and talk about other classes and try to counter argument with other class , that just show how ignorant you are cause this is an eli post , like no s hit right ? and to conclude the mumbling that went on for hours , i would say , skills is not an excuse for making you god mod , people who are very very good at the game ain't gonna receive the " your insanely good at doing ur roatation so we give you the pass to 3 v 1" the balance should be applied no matter how good you are  witjh your class , that means u play at full potential and thats where anet steps out and nerf classes , also you should realy calm down when arguing dude , you look very frustrated when talking about your class.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/10/2023 at 1:25 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Hear me out. Turn Auras into boons.

That means Anet would have to remove more boon rip from the game.

Edit: you forgot stealth, one of the auras should stealth the elementalist for a better balance.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

That means Anet would have to remove more boon rip from the game.

Edit: you forgot stealth, one of the auras should stealth the elementalist for a better balance.

kitten, you're right. If we make Auras count as boons of course CMC will remove the rest of the boon rips and corrupts! What was I thinking.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

15 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Edit: you forgot stealth, one of the auras should stealth the elementalist for a better balance.

The sound wave of teefs whining would circle the earth 5 times over and also create the biggest tsunami ever.
Glorious, I now want it. Giv.

[Kuma.1503]

Ele is definitely overperforming in PvP. There's no debate to be had there. I like the amount of build variety it has, but I question why it's only elementalist that gets to have this level of build diversity while other builds are killed off for far less. And I say that as an ele main. 

 

In WvW, Ele is also top tier, however there's a key difference. In PvP Ele is a lion in a den full of kittens. In WvW roaming, Ele is a lion in a den full of other lions. Its strong, make no mistake about that. But if a player wantss to maximize reward while minimizing effort, there's better choices out there. 

Deadeye is an obvious one. Top tier escape potential, Godlike in 1vX situations, great damage, nigh un1v1able anytime they catch you in an open field. 

Daredevil is another classic. Arguably the single strongest roaming build since I first began playing this game. It's been OP for so long people just accept it at this point. 

Harbinger is another. Especially if they use the degen blood bank build. I tried it myself for the first time last week. I was baffled at how much barrier I could upkeep at all times. I was sitting on a constant 4-5k barrier with occasional spikes up to 11k. Most people I fought struggled to move my health bar through all the rediculous sustain. 

Then there's the obvious willbenders, A build so mobile they can run you down without binding their WASD keys. Tanky, high damage, good sustain, an obnoxious port that doubles as an immobilize. The only thing that can kite this monstrosity is thief. 

There are the classic sic em soulbeasts, now with the ability to pet swap. The rare, but still opnoxious boon beasts who are functionally immortal. Druids who also never die. 

If we're bringing things down to par, it would be nonsense to single out elementalist. WvW roaming has always been a clown fiesta. Ele is just the new kid on the block who everyone likes to point their fingers at. Just like Mechanist was just a few months ago. 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[XenesisII.1540]

4 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

If we're bringing things down to par, it would be nonsense to single out elementalist.

You make it sound like none of those ever had threads of complaints directed at them in the wvw forums, but there have been plenty of them.

Take a number and have a seat.

And finally, the answer to the problem isn't to keep creating more power creeping specs to compete with those other broken specs, you adjust the other broken specs down.

We all know why that isn't happening in this case, but it surely did for another class, multiple times, ahem, Mesmers..... 😏🤷‍♂️

[Kuma.1503]

11 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You make it sound like none of those ever had threads of complaints directed at them in the wvw forums, but there have been plenty of them.

Take a number and have a seat.

And finally, the answer to the problem isn't to keep creating more power creeping specs to compete with those other broken specs, you adjust the other broken specs down.

I can see how someone would come to that conclusion, but that is not the intended take away. 

The thread title is "Bring ele down to par for once". Implying that ele has not only been overperforming in WvW for a long time, but that it's a unique outlier in the game mode, when neither is the case. A lot of things need to be brought down. Some moerso than Ele (Deadeye). Ele just happens to be the new kid on the block, so it's what everyone's got their eyes on at the moment. A simiar sitaution that happened when Mech exploded onto the scene in WvW and everyone wanted it dead. Regardless of whether it was actually stronger than the other builds available at the time (It wasn't. Not in WvW at least).

11 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

We all know why that isn't happening in this case, but it surely did for another class, multiple times, ahem, Mesmers..... 😏🤷‍♂️

I've been vocal about mesmers being disproportionately nerfed in balance patches. Especially as of late. Mesmer and Engi seem to be CMC's favorite targets lately for random nerfs that make no sense. Like how they shafted Scrapper/Core engi in PvP/WvW and turned Virtuosos's F5 into a skill that says "Press this to waste your blades lol." Both in the same patch. 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Zyreva.1078]

48 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

[...], but that it's a unique outlier in the game mode, when neither is the case.

I do belive it is tho. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of overpowered stuff that needs to be toned down, mostly regarding boons and cele gear, but other op stuff still tends to have some counterplay or weakness.

Cata isn't the only one with too much dmg, survivability and general boon spam. But on top it has perma or near perma uptime of stab and resistance, which allows cata to straight up ignore too many important combat mechanics - both offensively and defensively. Then it gets aura spam too which shuts down many builds, that don't have the luxury of ranged non projectile dmg. And cata isn't only very oppressive in 1vs1, it also scales incredibly well into slightly larger fights, especially when stacked with itself. And it's not like those incredibly powerful advantages come with a lot of downsides in other departments. Good and easy to land aoe dmg, great active and passive defense, great sustain, good mobility.

The only thing that makes it bearable atm is the overall low skill level in wvw (bad players die regardless of how op their build is) and the fact that it doesn't have the best chase potential, so running away can be an option.

[oatsnjuices.1698]

I think cata is fun to play against. I like it where it is. But the aura tempest is a pest that is overused by op servers. they pretty much negate allot of damage while being notoriously hard to kill. I have beeen beaten by allot of catalyst, but I know others that annihilate those same toons. That simply means that the good ones are just experienced and should win against players that do not know how to counter them. Any more dps nerf and they will be forced to go more tanky, that is no fun for anyone, esp the few catalyst players.

Edited July 12, 2023 by oatsnjuices.1698

[RazieL.5684]

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[andrewlcl.8176]

1 hour ago, RazieL.5684 said:

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I think you missed a couple more evades in there. 

[oatsnjuices.1698]

3 hours ago, RazieL.5684 said:

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Funny the message between the lines! Well played sir!