End game pve is incredibly gatekept and lacks player population

[yoni.7015]

1 minute ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

I joined a bunch of no requirements groups. Everybody does 20k+ dps and more or less know what they are doing. Like it should be, but I would assume if a game mode is popular you should run into bad players or People who are clearly in the learning process.

So casual means bad and low dps?

I have seen a lot of different players in strike missions, many of them not very good and clearly in the learning process. I know a lot of players that would call themselves casuals that are doing strike missions. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

14 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

So casual means bad and low dps?

I have seen a lot of different players in strike missions, many of them not very good and clearly in the learning process. I know a lot of players that would call themselves casuals that are doing strike missions. 

Maybe to your high standards 80% of the Population are not very good. Yeah some people call themselves casual. But, People are detached addicts. In another discussion someone, who has raids on farm and jumped into WvW for the legendary ring(?) called himself "pretty casual".
Cantha Strikes are downright unplayable without changing your Graphic settings.

I didn't say casuals are bad. I said If someone is low dps, it is probably a casual.

[yoni.7015]

7 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Maybe to your high standards 80% of the Population are not very good. Yeah some people call themselves casual. But, People are detached addicts. In another discussion someone, who has raids on farm and jumped into WvW for the legendary ring(?) called himself "pretty casual".
Cantha Strikes are downright unplayable without changing your Graphic settings.

I didn't say casuals are bad. I said If someone is low dps, it is probably a casual.

I have seen a lot of players in strike missions doing pretty low DPS. 
I never had to change my graphic settings for strike missions, this is nonsense. But what do graphic settings have to do with casual players? 

Edited July 12, 2023 by yoni.7015

[Dreams.3128]

15 hours ago, Final Attempt.8023 said:

have you seen LFG? unless it's right after reset it's a desert and half the listings are players selling carries

idk id rather just play a game that has constant availability of content like WoW where I don't have to be concerned about playing during off hours

gw2 is fun for the pvp/wvw/metas/story but the rest i can't recommend to literally any breathing organism

So as someone that does strikes lemme correct something that you are blatantly wrong about:

There are actual LFG groups for strikes. Every. Single. Day. You wanna know why they aren't lingering up there? Because they get filled up so quickly that it takes about 5-8 minutes to get a full squad to do Easy 3, Whisper + Boneskinner, and then whatever daily Canthan strike. How do I know this? My friend and I do strikes EVERY single day without fail, and every single day around the afternoon time on EST he throws up a tag and in about 8 minutes we have a full group ready to go. 

Same thing for raids. I have about four or five people in my guild that raid and then we fill the rest out with PUGs. Takes about 15 minutes in total to get everything organized, check builds, and then fill out what we need. Open World content? Most popular metas get filled in about 5 minutes, especially Mordremoth fight,  Auric Basin, any of the Canthan metas, Dragonstorm, or the Soo-Won meta.

Squads don't linger, they get filled quickly, so instead of blatantly lying and saying that it is a desert, maybe you should throw up a tag and see the experience for yourself. This is coming from a PvP/WvW vet that does nothing but lazily do metas and instanced content now that PvP ain't the greatest anymore. 

[The Boz.2038]

3 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Maybe to your high standards

What?

Those were your words! When asked what casual meant, you said "low DPS". You now moralize and grandstand about that point, pretending someone else made it!?

smh dude

[Vilin.8056]

4 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

So casual means bad and low dps?

I have seen a lot of different players in strike missions, many of them not very good and clearly in the learning process. I know a lot of players that would call themselves casuals that are doing strike missions. 

It's just how things work in this forum, many players behind the skill gap usually claim themselves as "casuals player" when posting, and we kept it that way to avoid unintentional insults.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Vilin.8056

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What?

Those were your words! When asked what casual meant, you said "low DPS". You now moralize and grandstand about that point, pretending someone else made it!?

smh dude

I see only decent player in Cantha Strikes. My point was: if he see a lot of bad players while doing Cantha Strikes it is because his standards for bad are different from mine. That is not moralizing, just pointing out if you are 6k+ hours invested in something, perspective does shift.
 

5 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

I have seen a lot of players in strike missions doing pretty low DPS. 

In Ibs yes, because they are popular. Cantha Strikes is all Gas. Every dps does decent damage. Everybody around 20k if phases wouldn't drop the number on arc dps.

Edited July 12, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[Zohane.7208]

If you're really interested in learning raids, take a look at Guild Wars 2 Groups | Snow Crows they have a bunch of training groups as well as groups for statics and the likes.

[Krzysztof.5973]

5 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

So as someone that does strikes lemme correct something that you are blatantly wrong about:

There are actual LFG groups for strikes. Every. Single. Day. You wanna know why they aren't lingering up there? Because they get filled up so quickly that it takes about 5-8 minutes to get a full squad to do Easy 3, Whisper + Boneskinner, and then whatever daily Canthan strike. How do I know this? My friend and I do strikes EVERY single day without fail, and every single day around the afternoon time on EST he throws up a tag and in about 8 minutes we have a full group ready to go. 

Same thing for raids. I have about four or five people in my guild that raid and then we fill the rest out with PUGs. Takes about 15 minutes in total to get everything organized, check builds, and then fill out what we need. Open World content? Most popular metas get filled in about 5 minutes, especially Mordremoth fight,  Auric Basin, any of the Canthan metas, Dragonstorm, or the Soo-Won meta.

Squads don't linger, they get filled quickly, so instead of blatantly lying and saying that it is a desert, maybe you should throw up a tag and see the experience for yourself. This is coming from a PvP/WvW vet that does nothing but lazily do metas and instanced content now that PvP ain't the greatest anymore. 

It's all the evil raiders' fault for not posting no requirements LFGs at any time of the day just for me! This game is all about me playing how I want, brining core ranger to the instanced group content and standing far away from everybody. I am the main character! The endgame is all bad! Nobody is allowed to post LFGs unless they are specifically made for me!

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Love how OP has access to player counts, something that is not being shared by Anet.

[rotten.9753]

14 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

I see only decent player in Cantha Strikes. My point was: if he see a lot of bad players while doing Cantha Strikes it is because his standards for bad are different from mine. That is not moralizing, just pointing out if you are 6k+ hours invested in something, perspective does shift.
 

In Ibs yes, because they are popular. Cantha Strikes is all Gas. Every dps does decent damage. Everybody around 20k if phases wouldn't drop the number on arc dps.

I do EoD strikes daily with no KP requirements and I guess you're standards are below what I would say is decent. Usually half of the team is nowhere near decent dps level, being outdps'd by boondps, with 1-2 people having healers' dps.

[Linken.6345]

24 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

I do EoD strikes daily with no KP requirements and I guess you're standards are below what I would say is decent. Usually half of the team is nowhere near decent dps level, being outdps'd by boondps, with 1-2 people having healers' dps.

Eu or Na?

[Dibit.6259]

Amazes me how many people lack the drive to put in the effort to work towards something these days. Rather than try to learn and adapt to the game I keep seeing people asking for things to be nerfed or given straight away. I get this is supposed to be a casual game but doesn't mean the game should be void of harder content or aspects that take some grinding to achieve. There's plenty to do in game so that people can find what they enjoy doing. If everything is given to people off the bat then the game is gonna become boring and dull as there will be no sense of achievement or stuff to aspire to.

 

Edit: mentioning this here as op titled his thread as things being gatekept in pve endgame content. His issue with finding raids/strikes group can be solved if he either creates his own group or joins a guild as previous people have mentioned before.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Dibit.6259
Typos, edit disclaimer

[Vidit.7108]

I'm someone who does tag up for strike missions and forms groups for fractals in LFG. (On North America) There is a lot of people here, trying to tell new players and people struggling that "well actually this isn't a real problem" when what they're talking about is pretty clearly not impacting you. Telling them "join our organized training discord" to do raids is not an argument against the existence of gatekeeping, it's just gatekeeping you think is good/effective. When i play with new players in fractals, it's a very frequent complaint from them that they feel pushed out of trying high level content. It doesn't help that player advice doesn't often consider their perspective anymore, I still see some dinosaur fossils telling newbies to go into raiding before trying fractals like this is 2016. It's rough sometimes, and not especially great for new players, I'm not gonna pretend things are great for them.

The best advice i can give to a new player is try to look up some mechanics, try forming your own group if you can but i'd be lying if i said it will always go the way you want. You might have to wait a while and that sucks.  If you are in t3 fractals, I'm sorry try to form a group to get each other out of there ASAP. IBS strikes, t1-t2 fractals are all still pretty accessible and you will learn a lot just from doing the "easy 3" IBS strikes first. If you kind of follow what other players are doing in the EoD strikes you'll get by fine until Harvest Temple where you'll need to tell someone you are new most likely. The EoD and IBS first three strikes are just intuitive enough that you can join as a dps and learn as you go.

My experience doing strikes is that yes, sometimes it fills quickly especially when you are trying to do a daily strike, but if it's not a daily and not an IBS strike you will wait sometimes as long as 30 minutes or as short as ten depending on the time of the day. Outside of peak times the raid lfg is empty, even during peak times it doesn't always fill quickly, I waited once longer to get a W4 group together than it took to clear it. As it stands i don't really do raids anymore and if you had told me a year ago that next expac would have legendary armor i never would have tried them. Frankly, the bad reputation of raids seems to me completely earned, the friendly people in lfg are almost exclusively guilds trying to fill spots in their static for the week. Your impression seems pretty right to me and that's one part of why i'm not doing them anymore. I'm pretty worried about the long-term future of the EoD strikes, groups in LFG have been dwindling significantly since about a year ago. Players sometimes react very negatively to someone saying they're new to a strike, most times it's a non-issue as long as it's not a weekly strike group. I had in incident just before the turtle engine was added to gyala devles where a new player lied about being a support role to get into a KO daily, if you're new don't do that. I've had players, where I was tag, start going at eachother in chat for some small dumb thing that went wrong. It's not been the greatest there in the last few months.
 

[Dibit.6259]

56 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I'm someone who does tag up for strike missions and forms groups for fractals in LFG. (On North America) There is a lot of people here, trying to tell new players and people struggling that "well actually this isn't a real problem" when what they're talking about is pretty clearly not impacting you. Telling them "join our organized training discord" to do raids is not an argument against the existence of gatekeeping, it's just gatekeeping you think is good/effective. When i play with new players in fractals, it's a very frequent complaint from them that they feel pushed out of trying high level content. It doesn't help that player advice doesn't often consider their perspective anymore, I still see some dinosaur fossils telling newbies to go into raiding before trying fractals like this is 2016. It's rough sometimes, and not especially great for new players, I'm not gonna pretend things are great for them.

The best advice i can give to a new player is try to look up some mechanics, try forming your own group if you can but i'd be lying if i said it will always go the way you want. You might have to wait a while and that sucks.  If you are in t3 fractals, I'm sorry try to form a group to get each other out of there ASAP. IBS strikes, t1-t2 fractals are all still pretty accessible and you will learn a lot just from doing the "easy 3" IBS strikes first. If you kind of follow what other players are doing in the EoD strikes you'll get by fine until Harvest Temple where you'll need to tell someone you are new most likely. The EoD and IBS first three strikes are just intuitive enough that you can join as a dps and learn as you go.

My experience doing strikes is that yes, sometimes it fills quickly especially when you are trying to do a daily strike, but if it's not a daily and not an IBS strike you will wait sometimes as long as 30 minutes or as short as ten depending on the time of the day. Outside of peak times the raid lfg is empty, even during peak times it doesn't always fill quickly, I waited once longer to get a W4 group together than it took to clear it. As it stands i don't really do raids anymore and if you had told me a year ago that next expac would have legendary armor i never would have tried them. Frankly, the bad reputation of raids seems to me completely earned, the friendly people in lfg are almost exclusively guilds trying to fill spots in their static for the week. Your impression seems pretty right to me and that's one part of why i'm not doing them anymore. I'm pretty worried about the long-term future of the EoD strikes, groups in LFG have been dwindling significantly since about a year ago. Players sometimes react very negatively to someone saying they're new to a strike, most times it's a non-issue as long as it's not a weekly strike group. I had in incident just before the turtle engine was added to gyala devles where a new player lied about being a support role to get into a KO daily, if you're new don't do that. I've had players, where I was tag, start going at eachother in chat for some small dumb thing that went wrong. It's not been the greatest there in the last few months.
 

You make some good points here. Think the Rift between those who are considered "newbies" and those who are considered "elitists" has grown the last year or so. The game itself can be a bit lacking with teaching people how to do things or how to be more efficient, but I find players can be very helpful with giving people information or at least pointing them on the right direction (guilds, forums, video guides & websites).  However there are a few that adopt the attitude of "why should I be forced to do x to achieve y" or "lol get good" that make people less and less tolerant to others. The game tries to set out goals and things to work towards but some people want it instantly with little to no effort.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Dibit.6259

[rotten.9753]

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Eu or Na?

EU

[Kalavier.1097]

There is a level of gatekeeping, at least on people who worship the meta and the moment anybody does anything outside of it they start tearing their hair out and screaming in agony.

Just look at some of the druid stuff recently. Guy posts a solo heal raid run that beats bosses, and people scream "MISINFORMATION! BAD GAMEPLAY!" when everything is shown on stream and video and they actually kill raid bosses.

[Linken.6345]

58 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

There is a level of gatekeeping, at least on people who worship the meta and the moment anybody does anything outside of it they start tearing their hair out and screaming in agony.

Just look at some of the druid stuff recently. Guy posts a solo heal raid run that beats bosses, and people scream "MISINFORMATION! BAD GAMEPLAY!" when everything is shown on stream and video and they actually kill raid bosses.

Could you point out were anyone screamed misinformation or bad gamplay because I saw that thread and yea it is possible.

If you want to take command and do whats necessary to be solo heal druid since you have to build the correct squad around it to be able to run that composition.

Add to that it put alot of pressure on that single healer if they mess up its a wipe.

Cant expect random commander to build around your wishes.

When joining as heal druid in pugs people expect alac solo heal druid dont give alac at all.

12 hours ago, rotten.9753 said:

EU

Cant say I had tht experience but also looks like I misread your comment, rarely join no kp squads anymore so thats probabely why 😅

Edited July 13, 2023 by Linken.6345

[rotten.9753]

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Cant say I had tht experience but also looks like I misread your comment, rarely join no kp squads anymore so thats probabely why 😅

They fill much faster, so you trade slower kills for faster grouping. You only really need to carry at HT and maybe OLC.

[Kalavier.1097]

13 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Could you point out were anyone screamed misinformation or bad gamplay because I saw that thread and yea it is possible.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0mpZ46ttMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfAOm5ndpmg&

Treating an explicitly "I'm doing this because I enjoy playing this way, and we made it work easily. I just don't provide Alac while providing a ton of other boons and healing" as if he's trying to rewrite the meta and playing horrifically and spreading misinformation.

Even though they A: are clearing raid bosses, and B: He shows his build and everything was done on stream so there is zero misinformation.

[Linken.6345]

38 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0mpZ46ttMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfAOm5ndpmg&

Treating an explicitly "I'm doing this because I enjoy playing this way, and we made it work easily. I just don't provide Alac while providing a ton of other boons and healing" as if he's trying to rewrite the meta and playing horrifically and spreading misinformation.

Even though they A: are clearing raid bosses, and B: He shows his build and everything was done on stream so there is zero misinformation.

So were are the comments spamming him saying he spread misinformation because I cant see it  on either of those videos.

Hint noone seem to have screamed that, what was said yea thats a way to do it if you wanna put in the work to get it done.

[Kalavier.1097]

16 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

So were are the comments spamming him saying he spread misinformation because I cant see it  on either of those videos.

Hint noone seem to have screamed that, what was said yea thats a way to do it if you wanna put in the work to get it done.

Then you explicitly didn't even look at the comments of the Mathias video.

People acting like playing the druid without Alac = terrible gameplay and being super bad influences on the future of the game as if there aren't plenty of other builds that also provide Alac.

[Linken.6345]

20 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Then you explicitly didn't even look at the comments of the Mathias video.

People acting like playing the druid without Alac = terrible gameplay and being super bad influences on the future of the game as if there aren't plenty of other builds that also provide Alac.

So most of the comments are how he could have played better proactive instead of reactive and 1 is I dont want to play with solo no alac druid so this video is bad since it might affect me.

That is not hateful comments or crying that he is spreading misinformation.

Oh my bad we got the troll comment at the very end, how can you even take that one seriously?

IMAGINE BUILDING AROUND LITERALLY FAILING AT YOUR JOB. GRACE OF THE LAND DOES THE EXACT SAME THING FOR HEALING WHILE GIVING YOU ALACRITY. WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGH YOU SHOULD BE GIVING ALACRITY WHILE PLAYING ONE OF THE HIGHEST EFFECTIVE HPS HEALERS IN THE GAME. EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE LOW DURATION AT LEAST GO PLAY HAM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T USE LINGERING LIGHT. ACTUALLY GOING TO KMS. I WOULD RATHER PLAY HEAL MYSELF FOR EVERY LINGERING LIGHT USER THAN EVEN ADMIT THEY ARE REMOTELY USEFUL AND NOT COMPLETE GARBAGE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Leger.3724]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:40 AM, Dibit.6259 said:

Amazes me how many people lack the drive to put in the effort to work towards something these days. Rather than try to learn and adapt to the game I keep seeing people asking for things to be nerfed or given straight away. I get this is supposed to be a casual game but doesn't mean the game should be void of harder content or aspects that take some grinding to achieve. There's plenty to do in game so that people can find what they enjoy doing. If everything is given to people off the bat then the game is gonna become boring and dull as there will be no sense of achievement or stuff to aspire to.

 

Edit: mentioning this here as op titled his thread as things being gatekept in pve endgame content. His issue with finding raids/strikes group can be solved if he either creates his own group or joins a guild as previous people have mentioned before.

Comments like this amaze me.

Tens of millions of people play other games competitively and non-competitively. 

Guild Wars 2 has an end game pve scene that's probably the smallest of any MMO worth mentioning. Smaller than New World. Smaller than Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft, Runescape both OSRS and RS3.

It's not that people don't want to put an effort into something. It's that Guild Wars 2 has an awful combat system for end game content. And people vote with their feet.

If your system is not worth learning it's not that "people lack the drive". It's that your system is terrible.

11 years later Arena Net is still unsure of where to take things because they decided sometime back in 2008-2010 that they did not want monks, a traditional heal/boon class, in their game and since 2014 they've been putting in the same mechanics monks did but making it unnecessarily stupid and non-obvious so they can still claim "we don't have monks and the holy trinity in our game". And then there's the fact the game does literally no teaching of how important boons are in the game. The story doesn't teach it. The open world doesn't teach it. The dungeons don't teach it because the content is dead and nobody does it. The early fractals don't teach it.

It's a bad combat system all because they didn't want monks in their game. People put in effort into something they think they will enjoy. End game Guild Wars PvE and PvP content is not it. I knew a ton of hard core pvp players in Guild Wars 1 in high ranking guilds. They all moved to League of Legends. Seems to be a lot of people with drive playing that game. The people who enjoyed end game PvE started GW2 and most are gone for FFXIV or no game at all. Again, they don't lack drive. 

I really hope Arena Net is not receiving feedback like yours because it's extremely poor feedback. Guild Wars 2 is not some hidden gem of end game content. It's everything wrong with action combat in an MMO. When the disaster that is New World has a more active end game scene... it's time to rethink how you did action combat for your next MMO whether that's Guild Wars 3 or something else.

It's incredible and it's not just you - a bunch of people in this thread seem to take the approach of "well kitten you OP things are fine". No. No they are not fine. There is a reason they transition from raids to strikes to strikes based on the storymode content. There is a reason you don't need to do a strike for the turtle mount. End game content in this game is not fine. Outside of a tiny vocal group including you - everyone else does end game content in other games, they do pvp content in other games. They actively choose to shut down Guild Wars 2 and start up another game.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Leger.3724

[Mell.4873]

I have suggested this before but alot of this would be solved with the ability to que for this content.