Whiskiz.3091 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 (edited) From builds that pull in and cc then 1sec spin 100 - 0, to cc'd 3 times in a row by a specter then deleted almost as quick, to basically everything once in the know - being 100 - 0 almost instantly Mukluk sums it up perfectly @ 2:28 at the end of this video i found, after having encountered it myself and looking it up: "I don't like matches where people are getting one shot, that's not MMO gameplay, that's FPS gameplay" Absolutely nails it GW2 PvP balancing is extremely poor Is there a particular reason for this? why time to kill is literally in the seconds? are they going for CS:GO market share or something? Did they purposely make it this way to drive off the population, to make one less mode to have to support? Otherwise i don't get it Edited July 29, 2023 by Whiskiz.3091 11 3 1 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Because it's an MMO. That's the short answer to your question. 3 3 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parasite.5389 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 (edited) Is there a Reason why this is in the SotO discussion? (for conteext, this was originially posted in the SotO discussion subforum, the Mods have move it) Edited July 31, 2023 by Parasite.5389 6 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said: Because it's an MMO. That's the short answer to your question. This. MMOs thrive on variety. Balancing a broad range of various effects is difficult at best and impossible more often than not. Personaally I dislike cc spam and prefer systems where some form of temporary cc immunity is granted upon end of existing cc effect. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 (edited) As a ranger that mainly plays competitive... Is he seriously in plat?! First 3 seconds of the video is blindly running to mid, getting bodied, then 'I waS nOT PreParred'; gets a rally, then just yeets off into nowhere land and dies again on what looks to be a SUPPORT build. The rest of the clips are either him on CD's getting 2v1 bursted or being in random corners getting bursted. Zero movement or awareness here. There's also the one clip of 'noo it's a catalyst' then proceeds to swap to staff and do absolutely nothing to avoid the burst 😂 Then this quote.."I can't rez my teammate because Druid starts wtih zero AF"---what?! Try actual rez with positioning or you know the Glyph of Stars you NEVER use? Even if you don't have AF it still provides AoE stability to get rezzes off with manually. And that last clip of just being at mid by himself, trying to hilt bash Youle's alt with 15K health and dying super quick because there's also a mes there bursting...lolol. In summary, running a builds with ~18k health or less to start with...of course he's getting nuked, that's like bare minimum HP on GLASS; I have 26k health running Carrion amulet... This isn't balance. This is a PvE'r going into sPvP, playing like utter trash, and making a whine video about it. Edited July 29, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267 14 5 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solzuul.6294 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 instant cast and instant target makes high level pvp just a battle of gameplay settings 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskiz.3091 Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said: The rest of the clips are either him on CD's getting 2v1 bursted or being in random corners getting bursted in 1 second. bursted in literally 1 second. you missed that part this should not be a thing it's not justifiable no matter what actions were or weren't taken, it should never be possible to lead to 1sec instant death - that's what i mean about terrible balance reduce all damage by 50%, sustain by 75% and go from there it's not just him in that vid, i encountered it too - even in unranked this is a farce of mmo pvp, no wonder everybody online says no-one plays and devs don't support it etc. i wouldn't play or support this trash either Edited July 30, 2023 by Whiskiz.3091 5 1 2 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Whiskiz.3091 said: in 1 second. bursted in literally 1 second. you missed that part this should not be a thing it's not justifiable no matter what actions were or weren't taken, it should never be possible to lead to 1sec instant death - that's what i mean about terrible balance reduce all damage by 50%, sustain by 75% and go from there it's not just him in that vid, i encountered it too - even in unranked this is a farce of mmo pvp, no wonder everybody online says no-one plays and devs don't support it etc. i wouldn't play or support this trash either I think you missed the part where the bursts are mostly combined, as he's mostly at mid kitten around. Look, competitive is unbalanced but high damage isn't why. You run 15k max HP like he did a few times in that vid you SHOULD die to anything, it's glass stats. I get he's got a cool talking Asura avi, but we really shouldn't be using Muk for anything competitive related. 8 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazrul.3086 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Oh man, you should check WoW PvP if you think this is unbalanced. 6 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said: I think you missed the part where the bursts are mostly combined, as he's mostly at mid kitten around. Look, competitive is unbalanced but high damage isn't why. You run 15k max HP like he did a few times in that vid you SHOULD die to anything, it's glass stats. I get he's got a cool talking Asura avi, but we really shouldn't be using Muk for anything competitive related. Man this was broken Ele before big nerfs, stop acting like thats normal dmg. Aa burn alone on ele got nerfed bcs it was crazy 1 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskiz.3091 Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 That's the worst part, sycophants trying to justify what is clearly so broken 2 1 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 The short answer is build diversity. "Balance" sounds great bc in a balanced environment player skill plays a greater role in determining outcomes, and that's what we all want right? We all want that opportunity to win every match based on our own superior skill rather than constantly getting outplayed by someone else's lame "cheat" build. The problem is that ninety percent of us aren't in the top ten percent, and without our builds to carry us we'd be losing so much we'd quit . . . So the game is intentionally unbalanced to allow players of a variety of skill levels an opportunity to be competitive in games amongst one another . . . 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: Man this was broken Ele before big nerfs These ele's were no fun but I finished in Top 250 literally 10 days before this was posted on aforementioned Druid. Ele wasn't any more bonkers during that time than perma-CC Spellbreaker, and to a slightly lesser degree one-shot Nade Engi, teleburst Untamed, etc. 14 hours ago, Whiskiz.3091 said: That's the worst part, sycophants trying to justify what is clearly so broken You probably should stop posting old vids then, as it clearly isn't nearly as bad now. I mean you post month's old vid and on top of that, Muk just being ridiculously bad at sPvP in general--it is starting to sound more like trolling than general concern. Anyway, I'm much less sycophant and more...git gud. Edited July 31, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267 1 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Im so bored of people posting a video they found on YouTube and then adding the equivalent of "I agree" to it. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald McDonald.8165 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/30/2023 at 6:23 AM, Whiskiz.3091 said: That's the worst part, sycophants trying to justify what is clearly so broken Or don't put yourself into a position to get 3v1'd and don't play a kitten build. People are deathly allergic to looking at the mini map and panning the camera to get a general idea of their surroundings. It's astounding how you can watch the same players run in 1v4 over and over in the same match and not learn their lesson. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atshadow.8695 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) Its a kitten balance because its probably kitten to balance 😁 Off topic: Can someone explain to me why stability exists? This game would literally be better without it imo its just dumb Edited July 31, 2023 by atshadow.8695 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downstate.4697 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Some things are designed without considering how it interacts in PvP. DH elite, chrono elite, and spectre elite are a very feelsbad design as it invalidates most stun breaks. PvP will never be more than just numbers adjustments and doesn’t address design flaws because those flaws don’t exist in pve 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) first pve has a higher priority in balance second they have the resources to balance fast and I don't know why they don't Reduced vigor duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only when the Vindicator specialization is equipped. this example above could be broadly implemented not sure why it hasn't happened yet. This could at least bring some core specs back to life, like core thief, with shortbow 5 costing 5 for core and 7 to elites. Edited July 31, 2023 by Khalisto.5780 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 the video used as example also shows a bigger issue than class balancing mukluk is a very very very casual pvp player, and his matched against prince of the arena this shouldnt happen, at least not as fast as it does. We all know this top 10 title ppl q dodge any ppl that could beat them to get easier matches. anet refuses to remove duo q and/or tweak their algorithm so a legendary player doesnt q into a gold 1 player within 5 min 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said: the video used as example also shows a bigger issue than class balancing mukluk is a very very very casual pvp player, and his matched against prince of the arena this shouldnt happen, at least not as fast as it does. We all know this top 10 title ppl q dodge any ppl that could beat them to get easier matches. anet refuses to remove duo q and/or tweak their algorithm so a legendary player doesnt q into a gold 1 player within 5 min Yeah, there's a stream out on shorts twitch from three days ago that shows he me and my duo partner (yerl at that point I think) against a bunch of folks I didn't recognise. Maybe there will bender was passable. You kind of wonder what got it in the Matchmaker's head that this should be the splitting of those 10 people. I just don't get it. And I'd be really frustrated if I was on the other team and wondering why at least some of the folks on our team couldn't have been placed on theirs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccccc.4963 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 3:05 PM, Whiskiz.3091 said: Is there a particular reason for this? why time to kill is literally in the seconds? are they going for CS:GO market share or something? Did they purposely make it this way to drive off the population, to make one less mode to have to support? Otherwise i don't get it mechanically solved game; meta is map control and pushing winning MU/not getting snowballed Ranked gamestate exists because theres a huge population of people who q on z-tier, do nothing builds that peak at taking 1v1s and dying instantly when +1d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ccccc.4963 said: mechanically solved game An MMO should never be mechanically solved, Anet can literally change the board whenever they want. If it's solved despite balance patches it's because the patches didn't do anything to change the intrinsic issues classes face in dealing with certain matchups. You should only be able to solve games with static rosters and static mechanics. If people are solving your MMO you need to do better. Edited July 31, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccccc.4963 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: An MMO should never be mechanically solved Game mechanics =/= class balance btw the games 10+ years old with the same combat system so ofc it's solved 10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: If it's solved despite balance patches it's because the patches didn't do anything to change the intrinsic issues classes face in dealing with certain matchups. Quote meta is map control and pushing winning MU/not getting snowballed Mukkluk standing mid attacking a coreguard with no foresight on what the other teams scrapper would do for first midfight is a l2p issue not balance. Game would be unplayable if a druid was allowed to live through full power scrapper/cata while standing on point Edited July 31, 2023 by ccccc.4963 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ccccc.4963 said: Mukkluk standing mid attacking a coreguard with no foresight on what the other teams scrapper would do for first midfight is a l2p issue not balance. Game would be unplayable if a druid was allowed to live through full power scrapper/cata while standing on point I don't have any large opinion on Mukluk's combat skills atm, nor do I think he should live through a power scrapper nuke without moving. I wasnt commenting on that. Quote Game mechanics =/= class balance btw the games 10+ years old with the same combat system so ofc it's solved The combat system is the same but Anet can make changes to how each and every skill behaves. The game is 10 years old but the way it is played has changed with every expac, and should ideally continue to change as new mechanics are introduced and old ones are reworked. Solved is for fighting games. MMOS (at least the PvP interactivity, cant say the same for static content like dungeons) should not be solvable, ideally. Not unless they're on maintenance mode and don't get changes to the content. I don't think that's the right term, and if it is I think it is indicative of larger issues. Edited July 31, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccccc.4963 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: The combat system is the same but Anet can make changes to how each and every skill behaves. they could also ban every ele player 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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