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Is there a reason why GW2 PvP is so poorly balanced?


Whiskiz.3091

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From builds that pull in and cc then 1sec spin 100 - 0, to cc'd 3 times in a row by a specter then deleted almost as quick, to basically everything once in the know - being 100 - 0 almost instantly

Mukluk sums it up perfectly @ 2:28 at the end of this video i found, after having encountered it myself and looking it up:

"I don't like matches where people are getting one shot, that's not MMO gameplay, that's FPS gameplay"

Absolutely nails it

GW2 PvP balancing is extremely poor

Is there a particular reason for this? why time to kill is literally in the seconds? are they going for CS:GO market share or something?

Did they purposely make it this way to drive off the population, to make one less mode to have to support?

Otherwise i don't get it

Edited by Whiskiz.3091
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1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Because it's an MMO. That's the short answer to your question.

This.

MMOs thrive on variety. Balancing a broad range of various effects is difficult at best and impossible more often than not.

Personaally I dislike cc spam and prefer systems where some form of temporary cc immunity is granted upon end of existing cc effect.

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As a ranger that mainly plays competitive...

Is he seriously in plat?!

First 3 seconds of the video is blindly running to mid, getting bodied, then 'I waS nOT PreParred'; gets a rally, then just yeets off into nowhere land and dies again on what looks to be a SUPPORT build.  

The rest of the clips are either him on CD's getting 2v1 bursted or being in random corners getting bursted.  Zero movement or awareness here.  

There's also the one clip of 'noo it's a catalyst' then proceeds to swap to staff and do absolutely nothing to avoid the burst 😂

Then this quote.."I can't rez my teammate because Druid starts wtih zero AF"---what?! Try actual rez with positioning or you know the Glyph of Stars you NEVER use? Even if you don't have AF it still provides AoE stability to get rezzes off with manually.  

And that last clip of just being at mid by himself, trying to hilt bash Youle's alt with 15K health and dying super quick because there's also a mes there bursting...lolol.  

In summary, running a builds with ~18k health or less to start with...of course he's getting nuked, that's like bare minimum HP on GLASS; I have 26k health running Carrion amulet...

This isn't balance.  This is a PvE'r going into sPvP, playing like utter trash, and making a whine video about it.  

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The rest of the clips are either him on CD's getting 2v1 bursted or being in random corners getting bursted

in 1 second. bursted in literally 1 second. you missed that part

this should not be a thing

it's not justifiable no matter what actions were or weren't taken, it should never be possible to lead to 1sec instant death - that's what i mean about terrible balance

reduce all damage by 50%, sustain by 75% and go from there

it's not just him in that vid, i encountered it too - even in unranked

this is a farce of mmo pvp, no wonder everybody online says no-one plays and devs don't support it etc. i wouldn't play or support this trash either

Edited by Whiskiz.3091
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13 minutes ago, Whiskiz.3091 said:

in 1 second. bursted in literally 1 second. you missed that part

this should not be a thing

it's not justifiable no matter what actions were or weren't taken, it should never be possible to lead to 1sec instant death - that's what i mean about terrible balance

reduce all damage by 50%, sustain by 75% and go from there

it's not just him in that vid, i encountered it too - even in unranked

this is a farce of mmo pvp, no wonder everybody online says no-one plays and devs don't support it etc. i wouldn't play or support this trash either

I think you missed the part where the bursts are mostly combined, as he's mostly at mid kitten around.  

Look, competitive is unbalanced but high damage isn't why.  You run 15k max HP like he did a few times in that vid you SHOULD die to anything, it's glass stats.  

I get he's got a cool talking Asura avi, but we really shouldn't be using Muk for anything competitive related.  

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2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I think you missed the part where the bursts are mostly combined, as he's mostly at mid kitten around.  

Look, competitive is unbalanced but high damage isn't why.  You run 15k max HP like he did a few times in that vid you SHOULD die to anything, it's glass stats.  

I get he's got a cool talking Asura avi, but we really shouldn't be using Muk for anything competitive related.  

Man this was broken Ele before big nerfs, stop acting like thats normal dmg. Aa burn alone on ele got nerfed bcs it was crazy

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The short answer is build diversity. "Balance" sounds great bc in a balanced environment player skill plays a greater role in determining outcomes, and that's what we all want right? We all want that opportunity to win every match based on our own superior skill rather than constantly getting outplayed by someone else's lame "cheat" build. The problem is that ninety percent of us aren't in the top ten percent, and without our builds to carry us we'd be losing so much we'd quit . . .

So the game is intentionally unbalanced to allow players of a variety of skill levels an opportunity to be competitive in games amongst one another . . .

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15 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Man this was broken Ele before big nerfs

These ele's were no fun but I finished in Top 250 literally 10 days before this was posted on aforementioned Druid.  Ele wasn't any more bonkers during that time than perma-CC Spellbreaker, and to a slightly lesser degree one-shot Nade Engi, teleburst Untamed, etc.  

14 hours ago, Whiskiz.3091 said:

That's the worst part, sycophants trying to justify what is clearly so broken

You probably should stop posting old vids then, as it clearly isn't nearly as bad now.

I mean you post month's old vid and on top of that, Muk just being ridiculously bad at sPvP in general--it is starting to sound more like trolling than general concern.

Anyway, I'm much less sycophant and more...git gud.  

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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On 7/30/2023 at 6:23 AM, Whiskiz.3091 said:

That's the worst part, sycophants trying to justify what is clearly so broken

Or don't put yourself into a position to  get 3v1'd and don't play a kitten build.

People are deathly allergic to looking at the mini map and panning the camera to get a general idea of their surroundings. It's astounding how you can watch the same players run in 1v4 over and over in the same match and not learn their lesson.

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Some things are designed without considering how it interacts in PvP. DH elite, chrono elite, and spectre elite are a very feelsbad design as it invalidates most stun breaks.

 

PvP will never be more than just numbers adjustments and doesn’t address design flaws because those flaws don’t exist in pve 

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first pve has a higher priority in balance

second they have the resources to balance fast and I don't know why they don't

  • Reduced vigor duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only when the Vindicator specialization is equipped.

this example above could be broadly implemented not sure why it hasn't happened yet. This could at least bring some core specs back to life, like core thief, with shortbow 5 costing 5 for core and 7 to elites.

Edited by Khalisto.5780
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the video used as example also shows a bigger issue than class balancing

mukluk is a very very very casual pvp player, and his matched against prince of the arena

this shouldnt happen, at least not as fast as it does. We all know this top 10 title ppl q dodge any ppl that could beat them to get easier matches.

anet refuses to remove duo q and/or tweak their algorithm so a legendary player doesnt q into a gold 1 player within 5 min 

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3 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

the video used as example also shows a bigger issue than class balancing

mukluk is a very very very casual pvp player, and his matched against prince of the arena

this shouldnt happen, at least not as fast as it does. We all know this top 10 title ppl q dodge any ppl that could beat them to get easier matches.

anet refuses to remove duo q and/or tweak their algorithm so a legendary player doesnt q into a gold 1 player within 5 min 

Yeah, there's a stream out on shorts twitch from three days ago that shows he me and my duo partner (yerl at that point I think) against a bunch of folks I didn't recognise.  Maybe there will bender was passable.   You kind of wonder what got it in the Matchmaker's head that this should be the splitting of those 10 people.  I just don't get it.  And I'd be really frustrated if I was on the other team and wondering why at least some of the folks on our team couldn't have been placed on theirs.

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On 7/29/2023 at 3:05 PM, Whiskiz.3091 said:

Is there a particular reason for this? why time to kill is literally in the seconds? are they going for CS:GO market share or something?

Did they purposely make it this way to drive off the population, to make one less mode to have to support?

Otherwise i don't get it

mechanically solved game; meta is map control and pushing winning MU/not getting snowballed 

Ranked gamestate exists because theres a huge population of people who q on z-tier, do nothing builds that peak at taking 1v1s and dying instantly when +1d 

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3 minutes ago, ccccc.4963 said:

mechanically solved game 

An MMO should never be mechanically solved, Anet can literally change the board whenever they want. If it's solved despite balance patches it's because the patches didn't do anything to change the intrinsic issues classes face in dealing with certain matchups. 

You should only be able to solve games with static rosters and static mechanics. If people are solving your MMO you need to do better.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

An MMO should never be mechanically solved

Game mechanics =/= class balance btw the games 10+ years old with the same combat system so ofc it's solved

10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If it's solved despite balance patches it's because the patches didn't do anything to change the intrinsic issues classes face in dealing with certain matchups. 

Quote

meta is map control and pushing winning MU/not getting snowballed 

Mukkluk standing mid attacking a coreguard with no foresight on what the other teams scrapper would do for first midfight is a l2p issue not balance.

Game would be unplayable if a druid was allowed to live through full power scrapper/cata while standing on point

Edited by ccccc.4963
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5 minutes ago, ccccc.4963 said:

Mukkluk standing mid attacking a coreguard with no foresight on what the other teams scrapper would do for first midfight is a l2p issue not balance.

Game would be unplayable if a druid was allowed to live through full power scrapper/cata while standing on point

I don't have any large opinion on Mukluk's combat skills atm, nor do I think he should live through a power scrapper nuke without moving. I wasnt commenting on that.

Quote

Game mechanics =/= class balance btw the games 10+ years old with the same combat system so ofc it's solved

The combat system is the same but Anet can make changes to how each and every skill behaves. The game is 10 years old but the way it is played has changed with every expac, and should ideally continue to change as new mechanics are introduced and old ones are reworked.

Solved is for fighting games. MMOS (at least the PvP interactivity, cant say the same for static content like dungeons) should not be solvable, ideally. Not unless they're on maintenance mode and don't get changes to the content. I don't think that's the right term, and if it is I think it is indicative of larger issues. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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