Enthusiastic Players Stay Silent

[Kalavier.1097]

6 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

He was nothing but polite, was a fan of hers in fact...and my description was accurate. 

That was my memory of it as well. He was trying to be polite and she attacked him, and then tried painting the thing as if he was putting her down.

[Nash.2681]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:09 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, and the backlash for that was absolutely massive. So massive they eventually stated nothing like this will ever happen again and there will be no gear progression in gw2 in the future. Unfortunately it seems they are reconsidering now.

On the bright side: now we know Arena.Net's definition of "ever"...

[Gorem.8104]

On 8/8/2023 at 11:09 PM, Ashen.2907 said:

They removed guild functionality in order to package it with guild halls for HoT's release.

 

On 8/9/2023 at 8:09 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, and the backlash for that was absolutely massive. So massive they eventually stated nothing like this will ever happen again and there will be no gear progression in gw2 in the future. Unfortunately it seems they are reconsidering now.

Hah so I stand corrected and was proven wrong there, interesting. Though I bet at least for the backlash on the exotics are concerned back then the game was popular enough that they had to actually care about backlash compared to now where they have shown time and again as to how little they care about feedback, or rather, no care at all since EoD released as we saw with the "beta" tests where they listened to none of our feedback and everything else that followed with the meta where they continued to listen to no feedback and now even "controversial" posts have gotten a lot smaller and less active. 
Which means you know unless they actually do something about this terrible way they releasing Relics like one of the worst ways possible they could do it and just do it anyway it'd be entirely true that this entire forum both positive and negative sides is just an echo chamber that exists to voice our concerns heard by nobody in the hopes people stay and keep giving them money. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Gorem.8104

[Gorem.8104]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:19 AM, Gibson.4036 said:

It’s too bad it didn’t go as far as reverting some of the “balance” changes that were motivated solely by said dev’s dislike of a particular weapon or mechanic.

We’re still suffering with some of those changes.

Good point there, I'm surprised they didn't fix the many issues and mistakes caused by him and instead just kept them in anyway. Though maybe that was their plan, to get the terrible class balance choices through and then used him as a scapegoat to deflect? hah. 

[TheThief.8475]

Wow this post should be about enthusiastic players but everyone is dooming here too 😅

I acknowledge that they dropped the ball insanely with hype material and bad trailers/ blog posts, but let's play the game before judging 🙂

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, TheThief.8475 said:

Wow this post should be about enthusiastic players but everyone is dooming here too 😅

I acknowledge that they dropped the ball insanely with hype material and bad trailers/ blog posts, but let's play the game before judging 🙂

Well Op did say that they stay silent so it kinda tracks that they would not say anything in this thread right?

[Knighthonor.4061]

On 8/2/2023 at 2:14 PM, Alsandar.7420 said:

The GW2 community is significantly nicer than other mmo’s… It’s true…

And there are tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of players who are really hyped for Soto. Many loved EOD as well.

But these players often stay silent because the forums, Reddit, YouTube = full of angry, mean people, who insult and bully anyone who likes the game. 
 

So Anet, please know a lot of us are excited!! And we love what you do!! 

The data from gw2efficiency say otherwise. The game is in a major decline now starting with IBS to now. Mostly dude to poor game design decisions and leadership. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

5 hours ago, TheThief.8475 said:

Wow this post should be about enthusiastic players but everyone is dooming here too 😅

I acknowledge that they dropped the ball insanely with hype material and bad trailers/ blog posts, but let's play the game before judging 🙂

Nah, we didn't need to play EoD to see that it was going to be a flop. You could tell that from the features and MMO game design theory. Same will happen with Soto but will be even worse until expansion 5 gets teased. This decline can't be expected to keep happening while simultaneously expecting the game to stay in a healthy condition. 

[mandala.8507]

25 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Nah, we didn't need to play EoD to see that it was going to be a flop.

Me looking around for evidence of EoD being a flop:

[Knighthonor.4061]

49 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

Me looking around for evidence of EoD being a flop:

 

[mandala.8507]

It actually hurts me that people think efficiency is a reliable and representative indicator of player engagement with content in GW2 across the entire player population.

 

[Knighthonor.4061]

6 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

It actually hurts me that people think efficiency is a reliable and representative indicator of player engagement with content in GW2 across the entire player population.

 

hurts more to see people that ont realize that its reliable because most core players that play the game consistently, most likely have used that site, which tracks account stats directly from Anet

[mandala.8507]

1 minute ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

most core players that play the game consistently, most likely have used that site,

evidence??? because I'm pretty sure this is just an unsupported assumption you're making.

[Bealis.6023]

4 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

The data from gw2efficiency say otherwise. The game is in a major decline now starting with IBS to now. Mostly dude to poor game design decisions and leadership. 

Hmm, just maybe that is why they went on this new model to try to "fix" it. But I believe that the gw2 community should keep reminding them not to overdo it. See for expample other companies who made their model based on their "efficiencies" like Bungie with Destiny 2 (people should not expect another Witch Queen), or even Blizzard with Overwatch (that is even worse). It had the exact opposite result - or in another words the data do not necessary reflect players enjoyment of the game and the fun.

I do not think it has been a bad game design, there are really alot of people who have been enjoying the game as it is, me included.

If I had to pick  a bad thing for me, it is  that the player characters role had been basically a side character in the Iceborrd Saga (we had little to zero agency, Steel and Fire and the whole scrying pool was pointless). And the story in EoD was unfocused (why of ALL things we could do before final battle against Void, we chill with Rama on a boat to help deal with Canthan politics and deal with self-absorbed Joon), and with shortcuts (Ankas "it does all" extractor). So it has been mostly writing.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Bealis.6023

[Batalix.2873]

The entire premise of this thread is just blatantly wrong.

Enthusiasm, strong feelings about anything, beget public displays of that enthusiasm. People, by and large, do not post if they do not feel strongly one way or another (yes there are exceptions and other factors at play, but this is the general trend).

Enthusiastic people, both with positive and negative opinions, and provided they have the means and access to public fora, are vocal. They do not stay silent.

It is the complacent, the relatively uninvested and only mildly entertained/deterred, the ones who do not put much stock either in the game or their own opinions of it, who do not post their opinions for public view and comment.

[Kastagir.2146]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:14 PM, Alsandar.7420 said:

The GW2 community is significantly nicer than other mmo’s… It’s true…

And there are tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of players who are really hyped for Soto. Many loved EOD as well.

But these players often stay silent because the forums, Reddit, YouTube = full of angry, mean people, who insult and bully anyone who likes the game. 
 

So Anet, please know a lot of us are excited!! And we love what you do!! 

Agree 100%

I couldn't believe how some of the popular youtube so-called content creators were acting over Soto changes. They were so hateful and wanted all their followers to feel just like them. 

[Ashen.2907]

GW2E stats must be taken with a grain of salt because there are no controls in place to prevent selection bias and other statistical anomalies...however it is telling that the self selected group(s) that it measures are becoming less and less engaged. So, at least some (arguably highly engaged) players are playing or at least completing less and less of the story over time. The question then is, are there different groups showing increasing engagement over time to offset the trend noted in the chart shown a few posts above?

Even if that chart is not completely representative of the playerbase as a whole, it does show a trend for a sizeable group of players previously highly engaged with the story. We have nothing to measure engagement from non GW2E users so, even if I normally take their numbers with a grain of salt, I think it is worth paying attention to that trend.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Quench.7091]

9 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

Me looking around for evidence of EoD being a flop:

If you want internal evidence that is public, look how fast they dropped the expansion and moved on to the next. We didn't even touch the important places in Drowned Kaineng, where we could use those Skiffs and Jade Bot ziplines the most! There were stories on the Ministry of Purity that haven't been totally finished up on. The undead were something people were hyped about to have as a story! So much that felt cut! It's clear that the dev team wanted to use Cantha more, but couldn't do it.

Edit: For people that don't know, Raisu Palace is in Drowned Kaineng. There were some hints at undead playing a major role in it within EoD.

<Character name>: What are you doing here? In the ruins?

Nika: Watching Raisu Palace. I worry about whatever dwells within... I feel it. The corruption. I will never stop protecting the empire. Even in death.

<Character name>: Raisu Palace?

Nika: The former home of the royal family. It was mostly destroyed during the Zhaitan Disaster... But some ruins remain. I wouldn't recommend getting too close, though.

<Character name>: Why not?

Nika: It's filled with angry spirits and evil magics that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Quench.7091

[enigmatic.3576]

2 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Enthusiastic people, both with positive and negative opinions, and provided they have the means and access to public fora, are vocal. They do not stay silent.

This is false.

[solzuul.6294]

Obviously the most reliable source of evidence is PRspeak written in a blogpost, not years of collected data organized into charts and graphs. /s

Keep looking for peer reviewed articles, I'm sure they will come and finally conclude the things we knew for years, long after everyone has moved on. Never ceases to amaze me that people can be presented with charts and graphs of recorded metrics and people can just turn around and be like "BUT WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?" 

 

I think there will be an exodus of players with SotO. Some because they don't like the change of direction, some because they have to continue to wait for the content they want released, and some because of the legendary rune/relic fiasco. But there will also be new blood coming in, ones that are excited with the new direction Anet is taking and ones that are excited for easier access to legendary armor and skyscale.

I'll drop in for the quarterly updates myself. It'll be fun, but it won't be no maguuma jungle or crystal desert. 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by solzuul.6294

[CETheLucid.3964]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:47 PM, Alin.2468 said:

I hope you are really happy for PvE only, since PvP and WvW got no content with EOD, and will likely get no content with SoTO.

Pretty sure the major system changes like weapon mastery and the rune rework + relics are universal changes that come with SoTO. EoD gave us new elite specs and a couple stat combinations to mess around with (in WvW anyway). Won't say it was a lot but SoTO is already offering more out of the gate in terms of functionality and ways to play, with more to come in the following months. Targeted specific work on PvP and WvW has always been more of it's own thing regardless.

On 8/2/2023 at 1:14 PM, Alsandar.7420 said:

So Anet, please know a lot of us are excited!! And we love what you do!! 

Already got some prep done for the upcoming weps. My skyscale (and griffin) is ready to learn new tricks. Have a rough idea of what sort of relics I want to use on my characters. Preorder hat is very cool. 

[Noc Rubu.5804]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:44 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

Then again, I also skip movies when the trailers are really bad.

I liked how they duped me into that stupid kitten EoD ending scene... How about an option for us not like them?  

[enigmatic.3576]

2 hours ago, Areohtwo.7839 said:

I liked how they duped me into that stupid kitten EoD ending scene... How about an option for us not like them?  

I take it that your dislike is because you don't approve of two people of the same sex getting married?  I don't see what else your "an option for us not like them" question could be taken.

[Labjax.2465]

I will never understand people who are overjoyed to pay for something and want to make sure others feel shamed and bad for not wanting to do the same.

Like some rare gemstone discovery after so many years of encountering customer-antagonistic services, I now put some of my recreational time and money into a service I feel good about spending money on because the people who do the service encourage having expectations and try to meet them, and they aren't weighed down by investors telling them what to do. I am a fan of that service to a high degree, but I would not tell someone else they are mean and a bully if they dislike the service. Tastes differ and so do standards.

With this game, my experience last year was persistently the opposite of what OP describes: if I had a criticism about the game, I would get responses that were routinely mean, if not bordering on bullying. OTOH, as long as I stayed positive and had nice things to say, I don't recall people ever giving me trouble for that.

Which is one of the reasons I left and only check in now and then out of a kind of morbid curiosity. Toxic positivity isn't going to sell anyone on this game in the long-term. It's ok to speak truthfully to a service you're paying money to. And if they don't want to hear that truth, well, I guess they don't like money and don't want to keep the business afloat. Some companies get away with it because of how dependent people are on their service. But an MMO? Naw. Anet, like so many other companies, has gotta lose the mindset that it knows better than the players what they want and that its personal vision is more important than what the players are willing to pay for. If you want to go the personal vision route, do a passion project. If you want to make a profit, you have to sincerely listen and act upon what you hear. There are only so many slots in which to fail upwards; for most people, they don't have that luxury and they have to look elsewhere for employment when the leadership damages yet another service with its sense of superiority in decision-making.

Of course, this is where some would say, "But they can't listen to everyone and everything." And that's factually true. But it's pretty apparent when a service is listening overall. And it's pretty apparent Anet only ever listens reactively when the outrage is too hard to control, not as a matter of sincere interest in listening.

So for those of you who are fed up and are facing down the sunk cost fallacy, I encourage you to believe that better is possible; but elsewhere, not here. Anet has had 10 years to get their act together and they got pulverized with layoffs in recent years instead. Have sympathy for the grunt work folks who put long hours into this game, but don't waste your feelings on Anet the corporation that shows an inability to mature past scattershot half-realized ideas, reactive halfway attempts to listen, and increasingly desperate monetization alongside flagging development resources. Treasure the memories you had and take heart that you got to have them, but don't keep yourself in pain if they keep failing you.

[Donari.5237]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:13 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

The entire premise of this thread is just blatantly wrong.

Enthusiasm, strong feelings about anything, beget public displays of that enthusiasm. People, by and large, do not post if they do not feel strongly one way or another (yes there are exceptions and other factors at play, but this is the general trend).

Enthusiastic people, both with positive and negative opinions, and provided they have the means and access to public fora, are vocal. They do not stay silent.

It is the complacent, the relatively uninvested and only mildly entertained/deterred, the ones who do not put much stock either in the game or their own opinions of it, who do not post their opinions for public view and comment.

Quite possibly true.  However, the forums are not the only place people can talk about the game.  My most active guild right now is full of people deeply enjoying the game, weaving stories in its backdrop, sharing news and screenshots -- and that's all in the guild Discord.  Most of my guildies don't read the forums, let alone post in them.  I've been in a number of other GW2 Discords for various instanced content and WvW and those are full of people being excited about stuff in the game.  I know the forums are very slow these days, but I'm still surrounded by chatter about GW2.