Ranger damage is ridiculous high - when its getting toned down? [Merged]

[aymnad.9023]

33 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

if I may

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Team_roles

 

here's another read 

https://asana.com/resources/roles-and-responsibilities

 

It's not playstyle, it's identity-roles and responsibility of each Professions.

We already do have roles. Sure you can go with a hybrid healer, dps tank tempest but the most common builds are specialized for something because the professions / traits / weapons do encourage you to pick some associations and the different game modes / team expect you to achieve a level of performance. I never really felt like 2 professions with the same role played the same or achieved the same thing. Core guard and tempest feel different as healers, scrapper, scepter cata and untamed are very different forms of dps builds. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Flowki.7194]

16 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

We already do have roles. Sure you can go with a hybrid healer, dps tank tempest but the most common builds are specialized for something because the professions / traits / weapons do encourage you to pick some associations and the different game modes / team expect you to achieve a level of performance. I never really felt like 2 professions with the same role played the same or achieved the same thing. Core guard and tempest feel different as healers, scrapper, scepter cata and untamed are very different forms of dps builds. 

There is a big overuse of the same concepts. For example a new player would be hard pressed to tell you the difference between a meme zerker, ranger, deadeye, renegade, untamed or dh, it takes time to even realise most of those specs are all of complete different classes. And then specter, I mean go ahead and logically explain to a new player that is a thief, not a necro ^^.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[aymnad.9023]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I realise Gw2 tried to be different, nothing wrong with that. But what you need to also understand is I have played games were all ''classess'' could do everything. All that led to was mirror matches, and a complete lack of diversity.

 

So run with that, why is ranger special? give it all, but lets also give spellbreaker more access to swiftness, superspeed, stealth, and significant ranged damage. Lets do this with all classes, until you have no need to specs or then classes, as they will all be much the same thing only with different names. Take revenent, there was no reason at all to make renegade, other than a lack of ideas and direction, since ranger was already in the game, and ren did nothing particularly unique/different. Revenent has some unique things that could have been expanded on, like mind control (if you know the lore) but were not.. and instead you got just another generic ranged spec. Ele suffered the same, conjured weapons, hammer for cata, sword for weaver, dagger meta, all just copy and paste things from other specs with a slight of magic, aka applies fire and bleed (nothing unique there either). When I think of ele, I think more of something like a combination of WOW shaman+mage, a lot of unique oppertunitys were lost with ele.

 

Ranger could have had 3 specs that specialised at different ranges. For example, a spec at 1200, that does less damage, but has superior kiting. A spec limited to shortbow range, slightly more damage, less kiting ability. A crossbow spec limited to 600 range, alot more damage, more melee based mitigation, but the highest risk of dying. You see how that could play out?

59 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

There is a big overuse of the same concepts. For example a new player would be hard pressed to tell you the difference between a meme zerker, ranger, deadeye, renegade, untamed or dh, it takes time to even realise those specs are all of complete different classes. And then specter, I mean go ahead and logically explain to a new player that is a thief, not a necro ^^.

I cannot say this would not work. I enjoyed some wow clone or Tera years ago. In those games I either could have enough nuances to have the variant of range dps you mention but sometimes it also felt really restricted in both role and gameplay.

I do not really have an answer outside of it being a different system. The weapons having skills tied to them and being able to swap is kind of a big thing in gw2. Usually I manage to find enough nuances in how each profession build plays. On some professions I enjoy the variety offered by each spec (like ranger) on others I do not find enough appealing mechanics to go out of my comfort zone(like war).

Edited August 12, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Burnfall.9573]

9 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

We already do have roles. Sure you can go with a hybrid healer, dps tank tempest but the most common builds are specialized for something because the professions / traits / weapons do encourage you to pick some associations and the different game modes / team expect you to achieve a level of performance. I never really felt like 2 professions with the same role played the same or achieved the same thing. Core guard and tempest feel different as healers, scrapper, scepter cata and untamed are very different forms of dps builds. 

Elementalist Profession role is damage and control...that's it. Just because Warrior Profession has access to healing, conditions.. it doesn't make it their roles as a healer nor a conditioner.. 

That is what Anet refuse to understand and is why the players, the Community are confused including with the Professions being our of control. I am not going to even get into Profession identity because in this game; it is a complete shenanigan mess.

Thief Profession new Identity: Necromancer

lol

Edited August 13, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[aymnad.9023]

4 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Elementalist Profession role is damage and control...that's it. Just because Warrior Profession has access to healing, conditions.. it doesn't make it their roles as a healer nor a conditioner.. 

That is what Anet refuse to understand and is why the players, the Community are confused including with the Professions being our of control. I am not going to even get into Profession identity because in this game; it is a complete shenanigan mess.

Thief Profession new Identity: Necromancer

lol

And yet berserker is a warrior condition damage based, reaper is a necro power based, druid is a ranger with healing.

Sure “most” core professions lean towards a few roles but they are completely imbalanced. Core ele /guard have every role while core ranger cannot even be a dps (no teamfight, poor roamer, in the past was not considered an option in PvE). 
edit :I do agree this fight between core / espec is why it takes so long to find a "decent" place (and why the weapon for next expansion is so scary), that not all of them are as engaging but you also had this in core, there are a lot of specs that found a place and even bought something(either in PvP or PvE as I doubt they all can fit every game mode just like it happens in any other mmo).

Edited August 13, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Mell.4873]

On 8/12/2023 at 4:50 AM, zyra.7860 said:

How you can say that you understand class when you cant climb past gold 3? There is no point write those essays.

You do realise the top 150 ranked players are only in Platinum in the US. It's very unlikely anyone gets into Plat these days. I might stay in it for like 5 games max a season. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I cannot say this would not work. I enjoyed some wow clone or Tera years ago. In those games I either could have enough nuances to have the variant of range dps you mention but sometimes it also felt really restricted in both role and gameplay.

I do not really have an answer outside of it being a different system. The weapons having skills tied to them and being able to swap is kind of a big thing in gw2. Usually I manage to find enough nuances in how each profession build plays. On some professions I enjoy the variety offered by each spec (like ranger) on others I do not find enough appealing mechanics to go out of my comfort zone(like war).

True but warrior jus shows a lack of imagination from the developers. Why it has been left to be so simply I don't know, even in wow my tank warrior had over 30keybinds.. it was a good challenge, and you braught a kitten ton of utility, even in pvp modes like CTF.

 

Zerker should have had the mechanics of power necro, and a big 2 handed axe. ''zerker mode'' go red, move faster, take less dmg, hit harder, for 10 second. Obviously balanced properly. I mean they called it beserker, and then did anything but make it a beserker. Its rediculous. Necro, a magic class doing more physical damage than an actual beserker, I mean cmon.. what a fking mess.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 Well this is not WoW. It is hard to Play cause it is as simple as it acutually is....... If this makes sence ^^. This is also the reason why it slaps noobs but get claped against half decent players. Its simply hold behind cause of GW2 Action comebad mechanics means dodges and stuff

Edited August 13, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Burnfall.9573]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

True but warrior jus shows a lack of imagination from the developers. Why it has been left to be so simply I don't know, even in wow my tank warrior had over 30keybinds.. it was a good challenge, and you braught a kitten ton of utility, even in pvp modes like CTF.

 

Zerker should have had the mechanics of power necro, and a big 2 handed axe. ''zerker mode'' go red, move faster, take less dmg, hit harder, for 10 second. Obviously balanced properly. I mean they called it beserker, and then did anything but make it a beserker. Its rediculous. Necro, a magic class doing more physical damage than an actual beserker, I mean cmon.. what a fking mess.

To be honest; there should not be any imagination to begin with because Guild Wars 2 was to carry the roots of Guild Wars with it. This is one of the main reason why the former founding Anet team members left because the new Anet wanted to "re-invent the wheel' by stripping away The Holy Trinity; which held Guild Wars foundation deeply grounded and its root strong.

The new Anet lost sight of everything and does not know where they are going. This is why Guild Wars 2 has no foundation, no cornerstone, no roots, no sense of direction and forever lost and will remain forever lost.

lastly; take a look at Warrior Profession skills in Guild Wars-

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_skills

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[zyra.7860]

Soulbeasts are ruining this pvp season.

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

To be honest; there should not be any imagination to begin with because Guild Wars 2 was to carry the roots of Guild Wars with it. This is one of the main reason why the former founding Anet team members left because the new Anet wanted to "re-invent the wheel' by stripping away The Holy Trinity; which held Guild Wars foundation deeply grounded and its root strong.

The new Anet lost sight of everything and does not know where they are going. This is why Guild Wars 2 has no foundation, no cornerstone, no roots, no sense of direction and forever lost and will remain forever lost.

lastly; take a look at Warrior Profession skills in Guild Wars-

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_skills

 

Yeah they ran a number on warrior looking at that.. what a shame.

[Mell.4873]

The one-shotting Soulbeast is just the flavor of the month build. If you focus a Soulbeast it is probably one of the easiest kills in the game, you can literally free resurrect off their quick death. Same logic applies to Chronomancer.

We have also been dealing with these types of a builds forever on Thief, as soon as someone gets one shot by them you very quickly try get them up. I mean this is 5v5 so try to get caught out alone.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Mell.4873

[voltaicbore.8012]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

The one-shotting Soulbeast is just the flavor of the month build.

This sword/warhorn soulbeast was arguably worse prior to the OWP nerfs that happened a long time ago. If you landed a buffed wh 4, there were a LOT of extra hits. The drawbacks during those times was that sword auto was the only damaging part of that weapon, and I believe warhorn 5 still didn't apply any kind of unblockable at the time. The procedure was

1. ranged poke, then wep swap if you have might-on-swap sigil
2. let smokescale run in first, and channel a smoke assault
3. wh 5
4. merge (taking in all the might on the smokescale as well)
5. OWP
6. wh 4
7. merged smoke assault
8. merged takedown (cc)
9. worldly impact
10. jump up and down in toxic manner on dead body (optional).

I don't know different the current FOTM "oneshot" soulbeast combo is, but the above procedure is far from "press 2 buttons to win." Steps 3-5 have to happen more or less simultaneously, and you had to be fairly careful not to blow the merged cc on anyone with the standard 6ish stacks of stab on them. All of course lacking the unblockable wh 5 has enjoyed for some time now. Ranger in general kind of needs to snowball you to win, so that means they have to land quite a bit to keep the multipliers (like twice as vicious) to finish the job.

I guess the current problem consists mostly of unblockable/lower cd/harder hitting wh 4 and the new sword 2 & 3 hitting as hard as they do? If so, I agree this overtuned FOTM can be put in its place purely with number tweaks.

Just remember that a sw/wh ranger is pretty much all offense. If they're running GS on swap for all the utility that sw/wh lacks, that means they are seriously lacking in the ranged department (that means 16s cd wh 4 is their only way to touch you at range). You might die the first few times, but you should be able to find counterplay windows.

I quit ranked a loooong time ago though, so I could be totally wrong.

EDIT: I just tried a version of this in the lobby, and it does seem quite powerful. I don't recall getting 25 might so easily back in the day, but that could just be me pulling off the listed procedure sloppily. Either way, it was so easy to stack 25 might and down a practice npc. I'll see how it runs in a match, but I suspect I'll have to be careful about almost any 1v1 where the target knows I'm coming.

EDIT 2: I ran this in a few unranked matches, and while I didn't get damage leader much of the time, I was usually able to pull off top heal, one of offense/defense, and top kills with ease... on zerker amulet. Part of this could be that I'm picking targets and avoiding most 1v1s when not stealthed - I'm letting another fight play out for a couple seconds, and once I feel I have a window between enemy CDs, I do the mightstack combo, wh 5 + 4, and sword 2 + 3. Usually ends in a dead target. Then again, this is unranked, and people were noticeably bad. I feel like I got away with things I could never do in p1.

Not sure I care enough to try in ranked. Either way, there does seem to be a very easy 25 might stack and decent burst to exploit panic dodges/burning of defensive cds. Could probably use a numbers shave on sword 2 + 3. Still make them hit harder than the old versions, but just not quite this hard.

Edited August 14, 2023 by voltaicbore.8012

[zyra.7860]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The one-shotting Soulbeast is just the flavor of the month build. If you focus a Soulbeast it is probably one of the easiest kills in the game, you can literally free resurrect off their quick death. Same logic applies to Chronomancer.

We have also been dealing with these types of a builds forever on Thief, as soon as someone gets one shot by them you very quickly try get them up. I mean this is 5v5 so try to get caught out alone.

What kind of tuning down you suggest to get that build line with others?

https://i.imgur.com/i9teXd6.png 

https://i.imgur.com/4ZVFXJT.png

Edited August 14, 2023 by zyra.7860

[Mell.4873]

33 minutes ago, zyra.7860 said:

What kind of tuning down you suggest to get that build line with others?

https://i.imgur.com/i9teXd6.png 

https://i.imgur.com/4ZVFXJT.png

Again you should be around your team members so they can resurrect you. They have no follow up stealth so they are stuck with either stability stacks or cleaving to finish you. 

Probably the easier thing to do is just focus and kill them to trigger a resurrect. 

If you are solo why are you trying to duel them. I mean I would say the same thing to if you saw a Zergers Warrior or Elementalist. They are not very attractive to duel and need 2v1 to pull an advantage off. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Mell.4873

[zyra.7860]

7 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Again you should be around your team members so they can be resurrect you. They have no follow up stealth so they are stuck with either stability stacks or cleaving to finish you. 

Probably the easier thing to do is just focus and kill them to trigger a resurrect. 

If you are solo why are you trying to duel them. I mean I would say the same thing to if you saw a Zergers Warrior or Elementalist. They are not very attractive to duel and need 2v1 to pull an advantage off. 

"Again you should be around your team members so they can be resurrect you."

That could be said about OP signet cata? U need to be next to ur team so they can res u after u die to OP spec? Problem was not signet cata being OP, it was u not being near team.

 

How you balanced soulbeast OP dmg?

Edited August 14, 2023 by zyra.7860

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, zyra.7860 said:

"Again you should be around your team members so they can be resurrect you."

That could be said about OP signet cata? U need to be next to ur team so they can res u after u die to OP spec?

 

How you balanced soulbeast OP dmg?

Well the Catalyst was op for a different reason. I don't believe it was one shoting people. 

The OP element to this Soulbeast build is the great opener, high damage on certain skills plus damage boosts. Once they focus someone they roughly have 10 seconds of constant burst. After that they will normally try run away so they can't contest or be  useful in anyway. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 hours ago, zyra.7860 said:

What kind of tuning down you suggest to get that build line with others?

https://i.imgur.com/i9teXd6.png 

https://i.imgur.com/4ZVFXJT.png

I'm not fully invested in this but these look like normal damage numbers for me. Why are people getting double mauled?

Is the damage the problem, or is the build? If the latter, is it unpreventable?

5-8k hits are fine. Its maul. dodge that. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

5-8k hits are fine. Its maul. dodge that.

 

Different maul actually: Maul (soulbeast porcine) - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

 

also, fun fact

6 ranger mauls! (Maul - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W))

Edited August 15, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[Sahne.6950]

6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm not fully invested in this but these look like normal damage numbers for me. Why are people getting double mauled?

Is the damage the problem, or is the build? If the latter, is it unpreventable?

5-8k hits are fine. Its maul. dodge that. 

Its not the normal maul that people are upset about.

The boar has a f1 skill called "maul", it has alot less casttime and the animation is laughable to say the least.... and the worst part....the dmg.... OH MY.... THE DAMAGE.....

Boar maul :   Damage (2x): 584x(2.2)

Dragonstooth:  Damage: 488x(1.33)

Arcing slice:  Damage: 489x(1.213)

As you can see... the dmg is quite out of hand...

The skill dodged the feb 2020 patch and ontop of that also uses values straight out of PvE....

 

I think no further explanation is needed. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[semak.7481]

7 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm not fully invested in this but these look like normal damage numbers for me. Why are people getting double mauled?

Is the damage the problem, or is the build? If the latter, is it unpreventable?

"I'm clueless (aka cant use wiki or look at first post after OP), someone has to explain it specially for me"

7 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

5-8k hits are fine. Its maul. dodge that. 

Then comes generic "just dodge" in the same post.

[Rhailex.2513]

Reading all this about soulbeast meanwhile oneshotting people faster as vindicator after porting through a wall 😐

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

8 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm not fully invested in this but these look like normal damage numbers for me. Why are people getting double mauled?

Is the damage the problem, or is the build? If the latter, is it unpreventable?

5-8k hits are fine. Its maul. dodge that. 

Those jpgs are showing the pig maul. It's a 2x strike that happens nearly immediately, totally probably about +50% more damage than even Worldly Impact.

It does actually need a nerf. It's just unrealistically souped up for no reason, and the pets that have it aren't even power pets.

[Andy.5981]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Its not the normal maul that people are upset about.

The boar has a f1 skill called "maul", it has alot less casttime and the animation is laughable to say the least.... and the worst part....the dmg.... OH MY.... THE DAMAGE.....

Boar maul :   Damage (2x): 584x(2.2)

Dragonstooth:  Damage: 488x(1.33)

Arcing slice:  Damage: 489x(1.213)

As you can see... the dmg is quite out of hand...

The skill dodged the feb 2020 patch and ontop of that also uses values straight out of PvE....

 

I think no further explanation is needed. 

Firstly as a player of two rangers, I would agree that the coefficient on Porcine Mauls needs to be adjusted. It is hitting a little too hard. That said it shouldn't be nerfed to oblivion, it should pose some danger to players who face tank it.

Also please don't compare apples and oranges.

Sure lets give Maul a shave but if you're giving false equivilences then lets play that game - give Arcing Slice and Dragonstooth cooldown increases to equal Porcine Maul i.e an increase of 4 seconds to 15 seconds . Lets also decease their radius to 130 from 100 and 900... lets also reduce the number of targets they can hit from 5 to 1. Lets remove the combo blast from Dragons tooth and the increased damage from Arcing slice for targets under 50% health along with the 20% critical chance. 

Whats that? Oh you don't like that? No I dont suppose you do. It would be foolish to go through with those changes. Theyre nasty skills and punish those that dont react. This is the same as Maul (and yes I will remind you that it does need coefficient shaves in this joke of a game mode, pvp).

The thing is you are only going to whine about the next "opverpowering" spec that floats to the surface when you deal with Rangers. Its fools errand to keep asking for nerfs on classes.

[anjo.6143]

Ranger dmg+sustain+mobility = totally broken, I mean, UN KITTEN REAL.