So ele back being kitten....

[Arheundel.6451]

Same ol' Ele is back in town....

All I ever asked is to bring ele up to speed with other professions, but the moment that happens, all breaks lose. This kitten community so used to have a handful of people playing ele that the second the class becomes a little more accessible for those who want to enjoy the concept without forcing themselves in suffering carpal tunnel and stiff fingers by the constant smashing of keys...following a hardcore rotation worth of Guitar hero on nightmare level.

Same old problem...and was so happy for scepter changes..."no more full melee with kitchen knifes BS"...alas it didn't last long...with scepter gutted...back to square 1....full melee BS without the sustain to kittening support the gameplay.

Where other professions can chain blocks/evades/stealth like no tomorrow....ele instead with their paltry 11K base HP must rush in with nothing but double dodge and some cantrip...same kitten I decided to quit ele for some time ago...came back for catalyst changes and especially scepter changes....for few months felt like I was playing the class as it supposed to be played since GW1 , and now back to the shitshow that it's GW2 ele...see you again in 5-6 years if the world still here and somehow they decided to make this class viable again for few months worth of gameplay?...yeah guess so

[Nephalem.8921]

Are you talking about pvp? Ele was completely busted there and 5 ele teams won tournaments. no idea what you mean with viable. it was busted.

[manu.7539]

Its all true but sword dagger weaver is still my favorite way to play. Its sadly under-powered but its so dynamic when you know how to play it, then anything else seem to be very boring to play!

I can only be jealous of all the gimmicks I see on other players but eles are still very enjoyable to be honest.

[Avead.5760]

   What made you change your mind since the time of this post?!

[Downstate.4697]

It’s no secret anet over nerfed scepter, but they already ruined the weapon when they made dragons tooth track. Now you need 15 might to do the same damage as anything else on zerker amulet.

will anet revert nerfs? Nope. Never have unless it affects pve

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 hour ago, Downstate.4697 said:

It’s no secret anet over nerfed scepter, but they already ruined the weapon when they made dragons tooth track. Now you need 15 might to do the same damage as anything else on zerker amulet.

will anet revert nerfs? Nope. Never have unless it affects pve

yeah its not the over nerfing of sceptre that was the issue on its own, its over nerfing + signet nerf (way beyond where it was even before the patches started) and then the nail in the coffin, Dragon Tooth Condy damage was savaged.  The cumulative effect to sceptre as a whole made it entirely unviable for condy based builds.  Some were slow to see it, but those playing off meta understood the impact immediately.   I've been forced to go back to melee/swagger for the first time in years and its fundamentally forcing a player away from an entire game style needlessly which is just poor design.  As ive said before, clearly the 'person' who pushed this rash set of crude smashes to the specs was being blinkered by cata/power/hyrbrid builds that gain more from field blasts and strike damage.

Edited August 16, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Khalisto.5780]

I feel you

 

While it was obvious it was broken, the nerfs making scepter and signets worse than before are just poor design

It feels even worse cuz was was happy playing my core ele and not even abuse cata

They should have made the scepter nerfs cata only, like they done with vindi like an year ago, halving the vigor duration for vindi

 

They could have done so much, first mistake was making written in stone a pvp trait, auras are mostly useless in pve, they could have added barrier/resolution/resistance, so it wouldnt proc condi cleanse and prot

Edited August 18, 2023 by Khalisto.5780

[Exzen.2976]

Honestly all the ele nerfs were needed in my opinion. Ele is still pretty great in all game modes. 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I get the complaints about ele (cata scepter) in pvp etc, but most of detractors couldn't note what's wrong actually and just wrap all issues behind anecdotal ones.
Ele does no "high" damage, nor has "high" defense per skill ; everything is about stacking a lot of modifiers and spells; which is part of the high learning curve and disparity of skill amoung eles.
Like the good old "dragon's tooth"; sure the animation is worrying for the target and is part of the idea, but the skill itself didn't deal huge damage, it was all about air/fresh air modifiers, stack of vulnerability, gale etc.

I can agree ele could be hard to balance, but nerfing every skills, and multiply modifiers /bonus/boon spam in all traitlanes to compensate (like cata) is the  worst solution.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Bladestrom.6425]

23 hours ago, Exzen.2976 said:

Honestly all the ele nerfs were needed in my opinion. Ele is still pretty great in all game modes. 

no, some ele builds needed nerfing and some ele bulds are still competitive.  the problem was  that the collateral damage from the recent patches cumulatively ruined many non meta builds.  

for e.g Dragon tooth for condy:

- 2k damage over 6 seconds if it even lands and avoids all condy removal of 6 seconds.   Yep you read that right,  that's down to 0 - 325 damage a second for one of its primary dmg skills!

- It has one of the biggest tells known to man, a big giant tooth over your head saying i am going to hit you in a bit!  

That is useless in pvp and was an entirely unnecessary stupid overreaction to people who didn't like a big tooth over their head despite the fact it was basically a free 'dodge roll to avoid damage' signal

Edited August 18, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Khalisto.5780]

On 8/17/2023 at 3:51 PM, Exzen.2976 said:

Honestly all the ele nerfs were needed in my opinion. Ele is still pretty great in all game modes. 

the last round of nerfs to power sceter was completely unneeded, they only done that to not risk having 2 catas at mat finals again

 

not to mention that written in stne and scepter ended worse than pre rework in pvp

Edited August 18, 2023 by Khalisto.5780

[bluberblasen.9684]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:51 PM, Exzen.2976 said:

Honestly all the ele nerfs were needed in my opinion. Ele is still pretty great in all game modes. 

So all we need is nerfing

Willbender, harbinger, and remove  all kind of thief in wvw  🤣🤣

 

[Exzen.2976]

Condi scepter was kinda crazy tbh.

17 hours ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

for e.g Dragon tooth for condy:

- 2k damage over 6 seconds if it even lands and avoids all condy removal of 6 seconds.   Yep you read that right,  that's down to 0 - 325 damage a second for one of its primary dmg skills!

- It has one of the biggest tells known to man, a big giant tooth over your head saying i am going to hit you in a bit!  

And post nerfs it's still easy to add a load of burning on ele. Also, dragonstooth takes literally 0 skill or brain to use since it was "buffed" (bring back old DT pls). It has a low cd and is spammable. The nerf seems very reasonable to me.

10 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

not to mention that written in stne and scepter ended worse than pre rework in pvp

Both were utterly busted in sPvP and needed the nerfs. I don't understand why anet buffed written in stone like that though, it was clearly going to be horrifically op from the patch notes. 

 

1 hour ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

So all we need is nerfing

Willbender, harbinger, and remove  all kind of thief in wvw  🤣🤣

I mean, yeah, otherwise you get crazy powercreep. Of something was overturned, like ele was, then it should be nerfed. Scepter has kinda been op since the rework, which is why it's received many nerfs since and is still widely used. Cata was completely ridiculously op amd has been in need of nerfs. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love ele, I'm an ele main and I want it to be good still - just balanced. Do harb and willbender need some nerfs in wvw? Ofc, I completely agree. Doesn't mean ele didn't too - I'm sure harb and wb will have their moment. 

[Sepher Yetzirah.4615]

3 hours ago, Exzen.2976 said:

Don't get me wrong, I love ele, I'm an ele main and I want it to be good still - just balanced. 

I honestly don't understand how anyone can feel that the Elementalist class is anywhere near balanced.

I used to love playing with my Ele, indeed it was not only my main for a very long time, but pretty much the only class I played, until I recently bought an expansion and began investing more on a second and third characters.

Admittedly, I haven't played any of the elite specs but, at core level at least, my second-born Warrior feels much stronger, demanding far less effort, even against a DPS totem that doesn't move or fight back.

Someone may argue, and I wouldn't argue back, that I'm just not as proficient with my Ele as I am with my Warrior, this despite being far more experienced in the former. Most certainly, a Warrior is far less complex to learn and play, having only two sets of weapon skills, against the Ele's four x two sets, in a single gear template. Perhaps, if I were a better Ele player, I might be able to consistently deal the same amount of damage, if not more, and die as (less) often as when I play my Warrior.

Still, I might argue back and ask that, if that is indeed the case, shouldn't higher playing skills come with higher rewards? Right now, at best, it feels like achieving the supposed Ele balance requires far more playing skill and, if this is true, it is - quite simply - not fair.

And fairness implies balance.*

*p.s. - Not that I would ever suggest that life is fair, so maybe the game just reflects that and that's what it comes down to: to be an equally or more powerful Ele, you need to be a much better player, turning the Elementalist into an elitist class.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Sepher Yetzirah.4615

[Sporks.4395]

Catalyst is a problem. The signets and scepter pre nerf was only an issue on Catalyst. Every other spec it was just ok. The issue with catalyst is the way aura's interact with the traits. The more aura's you get, the better you class is. So, we nerfed the kitten out of the weapon and the signets (in PvP) for every spec, while catalyst is still able to run around and abuse getting aura's in all sorts of ways. 

[Warscythes.9307]

2 hours ago, Sepher Yetzirah.4615 said:

I honestly don't understand how anyone can feel that the Elementalist class is anywhere near balanced.

I used to love playing with my Ele, indeed it was not only my main for a very long time, but pretty much the only class I played, until I recently bought an expansion and began investing more on a second and third characters.

Admittedly, I haven't played any of the elite specs but, at core level at least, my second-born Warrior feels much stronger, demanding far less effort, even against a DPS totem that doesn't move or fight back.

Someone may argue, and I wouldn't argue back, that I'm just not as proficient with my Ele as I am with my Warrior, this despite being far more experienced in the former. Most certainly, a Warrior is far less complex to learn and play, having only two sets of weapon skills, against the Ele's four x two sets, in a single gear template. Perhaps, if I were a better Ele player, I might be able to consistently deal the same amount of damage, if not more, and die as (less) often as when I play my Warrior.

Still, I might argue back and ask that, if that is indeed the case, shouldn't higher playing skills come with higher rewards? Right now, at best, it feels like achieving the supposed Ele balance requires far more playing skill and, if this is true, it is - quite simply - not fair.

And fairness implies balance.*

*p.s. - Not that I would ever suggest that life is fair, so maybe the game just reflects that and that's what it comes down to: to be an equally or more powerful Ele, you need to be a much better player, turning the Elementalist into an elitist class.

 

Why would you try to compare core ele vs core warrior? When players are talking about classes in general, the discussion is around the generally picked builds and core ele was never a thing unless you are a F2P player in open world or you just don't have the hero point for elite specs yet. You might as well compare a condi core warrior and complain why is bad, well because it is a bad build. 

You are literally trying to complain about something that you have only played parts of it, well of course you wouldn't know what is going on. Please actually play the entire class before discussing any classes in general.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Warscythes.9307

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, Sporks.4395 said:

Catalyst is a problem. The signets and scepter pre nerf was only an issue on Catalyst. Every other spec it was just ok. The issue with catalyst is the way aura's interact with the traits. The more aura's you get, the better you class is. So, we nerfed the kitten out of the weapon and the signets (in PvP) for every spec, while catalyst is still able to run around and abuse getting aura's in all sorts of ways. 

Exactly.

[Shiyo.3578]

On 8/17/2023 at 2:51 PM, Exzen.2976 said:

Honestly all the ele nerfs were needed in my opinion. Ele is still pretty great in all game modes. 

No ele spec is worth playing in PvE. All of it's builds have easier and more effective alternatives on another class.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Shiyo.3578

[Sepher Yetzirah.4615]

1 hour ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

You are literally trying to complain about something that you have only played parts of it, well of course you wouldn't know what is going on. Please actually play the entire class before discussing any classes in general.

Firstly, I am not "trying to complain", I'm sharing my experience with both classes, which in my case is that Core Warrior is  stronger than Elementalist with less effort. Elementalists have 25 skills and utilities,  against the Warrior's 15. An Elementalist also to move more,

It makes perfect sense to compare core Ele and Warrior even if in the context general classes, comparable builds. Metabattle, for example. For even if one has attained your Royal Highness's right to share their view in this forum, "core builds" are still 2/3 of Your Royal Highness's Elite Builds.

Now, if Your Royal Heighness tells me that Elite Warrior and Elementalist builds are more levelled, most happy for You and all of the Aristocracy of players that have had to endure the harder path of Elementalists to get all the points, at least in my most miserable experience.

Sometimes a pain from the bottom is as pain in ****.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Sepher Yetzirah.4615

[Warscythes.9307]

2 hours ago, Sepher Yetzirah.4615 said:

Firstly, I am not "trying to complain", I'm sharing my experience with both classes, which in my case is that Core Warrior is  stronger than Elementalist with less effort. Elementalists have 25 skills and utilities,  against the Warrior's 15. An Elementalist also to move more,

It makes perfect sense to compare core Ele and Warrior even if in the context general classes, comparable builds. Metabattle, for example. For even if one has attained your Royal Highness's right to share their view in this forum, "core builds" are still 2/3 of Your Royal Highness's Elite Builds.

Now, if Your Royal Heighness tells me that Elite Warrior and Elementalist builds are more levelled, most happy for You and all of the Aristocracy of players that have had to endure the harder path of Elementalists to get all the points, at least in my most miserable experience.

Sometimes a pain from the bottom is as pain in ****.

 

I assume you are new to MMOs, or rather games with builds so please try to understand something. Just because you can build something, it doesn't mean is good. Not all build is equal. I can put on a mix of soldier and shaman with fire, water and earth with random traits. That technically is a "core ele" build. It doesn't mean is good. The builds being talked about are the ones that generally have a working coherent theme. You are basically playing a bad build of one class and complain that is bad when generally we are discussing the class as a whole or more specifically, the working builds. You don't see people complain that condi core warrior is so bad do you? 

In this case, core warrior generally simply performs better because random mishmash of gear and build works with core warrior than core ele. Both builds are simply serviceable in PvE, there is no way around it. Barring a few very specific cases, all core builds are bad because elite specs tend to specialize in one thing and tend to perform better. Therefore core builds was never in consideration when in discussion like this. These are essentially "leveling" builds and nobody cares about the general perform of leveling builds because trying to balance low lvl content is a fool's errand. You literally are lacking tools in your kit. That is the issue. You are basically complaining how something is bad in comparison to others when you don't even have the full access. Therefore of course is invalid. 

You can talk about whatever you want, I also just happen can also point out why you are wrong. People are basically talking about complete builds and you are complaining about core builds. It is completely different. Elite builds have unique mechanics that core simply do not have, it is nowhere near 2/3 of an elite build. If you don't understand something, then please try and ask. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Warscythes.9307

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

No ele spec is worth playing in PvE. All of it's builds have easier and more effective alternatives on another class.

Power sword weaver is a top tier DPS and I see it played quite often in raids, strikes, and fractals.  Catalyst also seems fairly popular.

I personally don't care about playing the meta, though.  As long as I perform adequately for the group.  To provide a recent example, I did fractal CMs.  We had one guy switching between quickness catalyst and alacdps tempest, condi scepter tempest, and myself on condi sword weaver.  None of these builds are meta.  We still cleared CMs no problem and beat relevant DPS checks (e.g. skipping air phase on Ai).

There are ele builds I would like to see buffed, but it's not like this is some disadvantaged class that is holding your group back if you play it.

 

[Shiyo.3578]

Just now, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Power sword weaver is a top tier DPS and I see it played quite often in raids, strikes, and fractals.

Power willbender takes 1/10th the effort and does the same dps, 9/10 condi druids and power/hybrid soulbeasts will outdamage a weaver (less on average, because you'll mess up while their rotations are extremely easy).. Power Soulbeast basically has a vanilla WOW frost mage rotation, too.

It's not worth the effort to do the same damage only when you play a harder rotation perfectly.

[Megametzler.5729]

5 hours ago, Sporks.4395 said:

Catalyst is a problem. The signets and scepter pre nerf was only an issue on Catalyst. Every other spec it was just ok. The issue with catalyst is the way aura's interact with the traits. The more aura's you get, the better you class is. So, we nerfed the kitten out of the weapon and the signets (in PvP) for every spec, while catalyst is still able to run around and abuse getting aura's in all sorts of ways. 

But I thought Written in Stone was nerfed because of Tempest.🤯 /s

This guy gets it: Catalyst is the issue. No other ele spec is, while they are solid enough and most ele players don't mind the extra complexity (I keep the jokes on scepter ele players to myself 😄).

This is mostly competitive modes of course.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Megametzler.5729

[Sepher Yetzirah.4615]

58 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

 

I assume you are new to MMOs, or rather games with builds so please try to understand something.

How ****ing condescending. Try to understand something, you assume too much, I'be been playing MMO spellcasters for 20 years. My account with GW2 is a few years old.

All core builds are bad, compared to Elite, some are worse than others and core traitlines are used in all builds.

Quote

In this case, core warrior generally simply performs better because random mishmash of gear and build works with core warrior than core ele.

My point precisely, thank you.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Sepher Yetzirah.4615

[AliamRationem.5172]

41 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Power willbender takes 1/10th the effort and does the same dps, 9/10 condi druids and power/hybrid soulbeasts will outdamage a weaver (less on average, because you'll mess up while their rotations are extremely easy).. Power Soulbeast basically has a vanilla WOW frost mage rotation, too.

It's not worth the effort to do the same damage only when you play a harder rotation perfectly.

I guess I don't see power sword as a difficult rotation and it seems to perform quite well.  I see it played a lot more than I see willbender or druid.