Wizard vault's weekly wvw defense events, like, why...?

[evlover.6270]

Not going to complain about the rewards cause if people would actually read and do the maths of what they can get every month, they'd see it's a huge increase compared to the daily rewards we had.

Also not going to complain about the huge nerf to login with numerous alt accs just for a second to get daily loot, because it's a necessary change that had to happen even sooner rather than later.

But can we at least get rid of tasks that are unreliable to get credit for? Like, the Wvw Weekly achievement was adjusted so you didn't need the tower/keep defense achievements to get the weekly because getting credit for defense events in Wvw is so unreliable, then how on earth could it be a good idea to add it again in new weekly content aside from the Wvw weekly meta achievement? Destroying siege that has been damaging the objective never counts as defense. Killing the one that operated the siege doesn't count either, killing people in small skirmishes only seems to count if you happen to kill someone who killed a few guards, if you happen to kill 4 people that didn't tag a guard, there goes your defense credit down the drain as well. The only reliable way to get defense credit, is to cap an objective and then kill some of the enemies that were still inside cause that always seems to proc the defense credit somehow. Sadly most of the time, either all defenders are dead by the time you're capping, or there was no enemy in there to begin with. Just get rid off the defense events for people who pick Wvw and replace them by whichever other Wvw related content you can come up with, but not these defense events that barely ever proc -.-'

Like, I do Wvw up until diamond chest most of the weeks, and even after all those hours tower defense is the only one I miss nearly every week. Keep defenses gets done most of the time because there's often some previous defenders in there that you can kill after the cap for credit, which shows how badly the defense events work. I don't get them done by actually defending, but by attacking previous defenders..  

[evlover.6270]

Just checked my current Wvw progress of this week, halfway mithril chest, tower guardian 1/8, keep keeper 1/3 with all other achies done and numerous times of successfully defending towers/keep against enemies. Says everything..

[Hachimaro.6234]

People are getting too few rewards, not too many, so this issue is not a priority. Just avoid playing WvW for now, or pretend the defense events don't exist.

[Zephyrus.9680]

I have thousands of hours in WvW and still don't even know the multiple triggers required getting credit on defense. It's something like: 

1: objective was contested (has an X)

2: some form of participation like killing an opposing player or siege(?) while near(?)/inside(?) the objective. Though repairing walls no longer works after they changed that a couple years ago. 

3: you are in the zone when the defense timer hits 0 (?). Not even sure on this but there are so many instances not getting credit I assume this is a condition. 

So all 3 conditions must be true to get credit. It's maybe not as bad as veteran creature slayer from the old system but it's not at all intuitive and more importantly, normal gameplay in WvW will usually miss it. They should just remove that from the daily and particularly weekly rotations. 

[plasticzaku.5143]

29 minutes ago, Hachimaro.6234 said:

People are getting too few rewards, not too many, so this issue is not a priority. Just avoid playing WvW for now, or pretend the defense events don't exist.

I was fine pretending it didn't exist until it became required for some of the dailies rolls. Numerous people are just asking for this event type to be removed from the WvW pool until it can be addressed.

[Zephire.8049]

31 minutes ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

I have thousands of hours in WvW and still don't even know the multiple triggers required getting credit on defense. It's something like: 

1: objective was contested (has an X)

2: some form of participation like killing an opposing player or siege(?) while near(?)/inside(?) the objective. Though repairing walls no longer works after they changed that a couple years ago. 

3: you are in the zone when the defense timer hits 0 (?). Not even sure on this but there are so many instances not getting credit I assume this is a condition. 

So all 3 conditions must be true to get credit. It's maybe not as bad as veteran creature slayer from the old system but it's not at all intuitive and more importantly, normal gameplay in WvW will usually miss it. They should just remove that from the daily and particularly weekly rotations. 

I don't think #2 is even a given. There's been times I've crossed into a zone briefly and gotten credit for defending an objective I was never even near while other times I've killed players and siege but gotten zero credit. Nothing like getting credit for defending SMC when all you did was flip one of the sentries and ran off to a camp, or not getting credit for a 10+ minute siege while also having a growing stack of bags and a shiny new daily chest for defeating 3 enemy players.

[Doggie.3184]

Please remove the WvW Defense Dailys/Weeklies. They are way too difficult and time consuming ever since you changed the way Defense credit works.

For people who don't know; from my testing (I spend weeks trying to finish off my 20-30 remaining defenses for Tower Guard after defense patch) it works like this:

1. You need to kill someone who gained XP from the objective; like FULLY destroying a wall or killing an NPC or killing a player inside objective.

2. They need to still be near the objective when they die though it seems buggy with this. But I can confirm killing someone I witnessed kill a guard after chasing them far away didn't give me credit plenty of times.

3. You need to be in zone when defend timer hits 0 and still owning the objective.

This goal is way too reliant on chance, it can literally take several hours to complete, or even never if not lucky enough or low population on either side.

Also even attempting to finish these will likely degen your participation to 0 since you'll be waiting for opprotunities to arise rather than playing.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Quench.7091]

This is something they should address by making obtaining defense credit easier. We have other achievements related to defending objectives. If these dailies are just simply removed, it is sweeping the issue under the rug. Here are some ideas for making defense objectives easier to contribute to:

• We need the ability to get credit for defending against treb attacks outside of the zone of influence of an objective, such as using a shield generator to block an attack. Shield generators should grant credit for blocking a siege attack, just like how siege attacks grant credit for striking a wall.
• Destroying completed siege equipment should count as credit.
• Removing enemy supplies, disabling enemy siege, and painting enemy targets should grant a very small amount of EXP/credit. These are very important defensive tactics, because they help inform allies and stall for time. Traps are underutilized by players, even though they do some pretty great things.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Quench.7091

[WRay.2391]

2 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Please remove the WvW Defense Dailys/Weeklies. They are way too difficult and time consuming ever since you changed the way Defense credit works.

For people who don't know; from my testing (I spend weeks trying to finish off my 20-30 remaining defenses for Tower Guard after defense patch) it works like this:

1. You need to kill someone who gained XP from the objective; like FULLY destroying a wall or killing an NPC or killing a player inside objective.

2. They need to still be near the objective when they die though it seems buggy with this. But I can confirm killing someone I witnessed kill a guard after chasing them far away didn't give me credit plenty of times.

3. You need to be in zone when defend timer hits 0 and still owning the objective.

This goal is way too reliant on chance, it can literally take several hours to complete, or even never if not lucky enough or low population on either side.

Also even attempting to finish these will likely degen your participation to 0 since you'll be waiting for opprotunities to arise rather than playing.

This was discussed some time past. With latest system you need to participate in a kill of player who gets participation in assault (kill guard, defending player or capping circle, not sure about wall). You can kill a player who didn't get participation yet, and this will not count. If they capping circle, most probably you dead or they'll flip objective stopping defence event. The only reasonable option is to get a kill and hope that guy was getting assault participation.

You in fact don't need to be on objective when event ends, just on the same map from my experience.

[willow.8209]

7 hours ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

it's not at all intuitive and more importantly, normal gameplay in WvW will usually miss it. They should just remove that from the daily and particularly weekly rotations. 

agreed

[willow.8209]

6 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

This goal is way too reliant on chance, it can literally take several hours to complete, or even never if not lucky enough or low population on either side.

Also even attempting to finish these will likely degen your participation to 0 since you'll be waiting for opprotunities to arise rather than playing.

+1 

[willow.8209]

6 hours ago, Quench.7091 said:

This is something they should address by making obtaining defense credit easier. We have other achievements related to defending objectives. If these dailies are just simply removed, it is sweeping the issue under the rug. Here are some ideas for making defense objectives easier to contribute to:

• We need the ability to get credit for defending against treb attacks outside of the zone of influence of an objective, such as using a shield generator to block an attack. Shield generators should grant credit for blocking a siege attack, just like how siege attacks grant credit for striking a wall.
• Destroying completed siege equipment should count as credit.
• Removing enemy supplies, disabling enemy siege, and painting enemy targets should grant a very small amount of EXP/credit. These are very important defensive tactics, because they help inform allies and stall for time. Traps are underutilized by players, even though they do some pretty great things.

agreed

[willow.8209]

returning to a system where you had more choices for dailies would also help

[TheNurgle.4825]

Had defense as daily yesterday and it was hardest task to achieve from wizard's vault. Temporal removal or actually fixing defense "events" would work. Like I thought when 2 or more ppl repair completly broken wall, then we would get defense task done and I was wrong.

[Dawdler.8521]

Weeklies have 2 optionals, like the old system. Daily on the other hand...

Edited August 25, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[plasticzaku.5143]

35 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Had defense as daily yesterday and it was hardest task to achieve from wizard's vault. Temporal removal or actually fixing defense "events" would work. Like I thought when 2 or more ppl repair completly broken wall, then we would get defense task done and I was wrong.

You're right, wall repairs used to give defense credit, but that was removed in the last WvW update. Now it's... a mystery.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Weeklies have 2 optionals, like the old system. Daily on the other hand...

Yep, thankfully they gave a bit of leeway with the weeklies. I have 2 that won't be happening this week, Defend 10 WvW objectives and Obsidian Sanctum jumping puzzle.

With terrible possibilities like those (and the incredibly boring "escort 10 dolyaks") I've just deselected WvW tasks, and that's after having done WvW dailies for years. Sad.

[JestersFear.2538]

ANet can't be serious. 1 mandatory defense event to complete the daily?

No thanks, I won't do my daily WvW anymore. Unchecked the option. Bye WvW.

[Quench.7091]

2 hours ago, plasticzaku.5143 said:

You're right, wall repairs used to give defense credit, but that was removed in the last WvW update. Now it's... a mystery.

Now you need to become a spider. You first need to wait for a camp to be attacked. Stall for time for the servers to download CampIsUnderAttack.exe by trapping them in your web to root them in place! After that, suck their blood dry. Pft pft pft! Like that! That is how you get defense credit.

Edit: I missed an important detail! CampIsUnderAttack.exe is downloaded from a Russian server in Siberia. It only has 1 KB of RAM, so it can take awhile for the camps to flag as under attack.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Quench.7091

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

(and the incredibly boring "escort 10 dolyaks") 

Far easier than people think unless they are under attack. You only need to escort a dolly a relatively short distance, like a third of the way0 and then you can move onto the next, you can do both from camps and 4 from dbl at the same time if you hustle.

I'm in a community guild that sometimes do the WvW guild mission but I can never join because discord would just be filled with the sound of teeth grinding over the speed and ineffeciency.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

43 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Far easier than people think unless they are under attack. You only need to escort a dolly a relatively short distance, like a third of the way0 and then you can move onto the next, you can do both from camps and 4 from dbl at the same time if you hustle.

I'm in a community guild that sometimes do the WvW guild mission but I can never join because discord would just be filled with the sound of teeth grinding over the speed and ineffeciency.

That is very dependent on your server's performance and the time of day your playing. Having one camp available with one nearby tower can be a luxury in my particular situation. I did it yesterday because I wanted to do my weeklies and there were already 2 that are even less attractive (Stonemist + 10 defenses). I even had to flip that 1 camp back and wait for a dolyak several times. Took me almost 90 minutes to escort 10 dolyaks.

And I really know it can be incredibly fast. I once "escorted" over 100 dolyaks to score some achievements just by standing afk in a place where both passed on their route while I was having a sandwich. As with all things WvW, there is no comparing player's experiences on different servers.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Manasa Devi.7958

[Gorem.8104]

22 hours ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

I have thousands of hours in WvW and still don't even know the multiple triggers required getting credit on defense. It's something like: 

1: objective was contested (has an X)

2: some form of participation like killing an opposing player or siege(?) while near(?)/inside(?) the objective. Though repairing walls no longer works after they changed that a couple years ago. 

3: you are in the zone when the defense timer hits 0 (?). Not even sure on this but there are so many instances not getting credit I assume this is a condition. 

So all 3 conditions must be true to get credit. It's maybe not as bad as veteran creature slayer from the old system but it's not at all intuitive and more importantly, normal gameplay in WvW will usually miss it. They should just remove that from the daily and particularly weekly rotations. 

It used to be a lot better before they continued to make wvw worse. if a wall was under attack, you could repair it and it would give you contribution, then when the timer ticked, that would count as you defending, no matter where on the map you were. But we can't have good wvw anymore. 

[Hachimaro.6234]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:19 AM, plasticzaku.5143 said:

I was fine pretending it didn't exist until it became required for some of the dailies rolls. Numerous people are just asking for this event type to be removed from the WvW pool until it can be addressed.

I agree it's quite confusing why it was included in the new dailies and weeklies since clearly it wasn't working as intended.

In general, the Wizard's Vault is an improvement, but a lot of the objectives seem to be designed arbitrarily by people with very limited knowledge of the actual gameplay. I can't imagine someone who's familiar with WvW thinking adding the Obsidian Sanctum as a weekly would be something players would appreciate.

[Olvendred.3027]

There's a very simple solution:

1) Repairing gives guaranteed defence credit

2) No extra rewards if repairing was your only reason for defence credit.

[Neathra.1950]

On 8/27/2023 at 2:29 AM, Olvendred.3027 said:

There's a very simple solution:

1) Repairing gives guaranteed defence credit

2) No extra rewards if repairing was your only reason for defence credit.

Can we also add "any kill on an enemy inside the objective"? Because I have not gotten the kitten credit because the enemy ported in.