RANGER REALLY?

[Mell.4873]

Honestly though outside of a few outlying issues like the Pig Maul coefficient. Soulbeast is fine, it's honestly really fun to see them burst into you only for you turn around and one shot them. 

In a strange way Healers and Brawler/Bunkers have returned to the Meta since so many people have been dying the one-shot builds. 

[bethekey.8314]

11 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I’m not advocating for ranger nerfs (though I believe things like the ranger and catas sitch are symptoms of more overarching issues of the game)…ranger just absolutely crushed me yesterday. Albeit I haven’t played in a while so I was very rusty and was wasting my dodges. I play in the top 100 bracket so the players I’m fighting aren’t bad.
 

I can only imagine what happens when gold or silver level players fight such builds and get absolutely trounced.
 

Getting hit for 20k with a hunters call + one wolf pack combo, which is just persistent damage you can’t avoid is pretty rough. 

my suggestion is that if you have a 3s block, to save that block for hunters call. Save your dodges only for maul, and use your stun break to escape CC and kite out…as the ranger will either Worldy impact you or maul you. WI roots them in place so your more likely able to kite out of it before it lands but you need to dodge maul cause they will attempt to follow you to land the attack if you happen to break stun.

Another and probably better strategy is to simply zone the ranger all game. Peel for your teammates when the ranger comes by and just zone them so hard that they don’t have a chance to bulldoze your team.

I find it helps to compare the level of effort needed to fight from both perspectives.

A blind folded ranger, who isn't reacting to anything, can literally press a sequence of ~3-4 buttons and often secure a kill.

Meanwhile, you're writing up a detailed strategy that only really applies in good scenarios (dodges up, block up, stab for pet knockdowns?, and perfect execution), to avoid the MULTIPLE stuns and 6 - 15k bursts that ranger is throwing out at you.

This doesn't seem wrong to you? It should lol.

[Rhailex.2513]

Wait, you're telling me that you don't bring a single CC / Block in your build to survive? No wonder people die so easily.

The ranger's strength is the duration of their burst. One Wolf Pack is 6s long and Sic'Em is 10 seconds.
Sic'em grants 25% more damage
Hunter's Call applies 16x Vuln if all hits hit, that's 16% more damage from everything
In total, if you don't dodge the initial burst, you'll take about 50%-60% bonus damage from the ranger.

If you're glass cannon, then RIP. That's what glass cannons are.

Have you seen the kind of burst Vindicators can do in less time? They can even shadowstep 1.2k range through walls/obstacles... Even in Battle of Kyhlo they can shadowstep from outside the building to the mid point.

The only change I'd do to soulbeast are these two:
Tone down Sic'Em damage buff. It's a skill that's in literally every single build. It lasts 10 seconds and you activate it as soon as you start damaging someone. You only have 18 seconds left before you can use it again after it expires.
Increase the "Strike Interval" time for One Wolf Pack to 1/2 or even more to reduce the number of bonus 1.5k crits it gives. I could only get about 8-10 extra hits from this, technically you can achieve more if you have more hits to dish out. But even 10 extra hits is roughly 15k added to everything else. I am pretty sure this skill is wrongly balanced, as in PVE the strike interval is 1 second VS PVP's 1/4 second...

[Sahne.6950]

I like how those two Rangermains (you know who i am talking about) do mentalgymnastics trying to tell people that ranger is balanced.... 

It is literally using a skill that is not Damagesplit between PvE and PvP.... and its consistently hitting over 10k (highest i have hit is 17,4k)     

Thats not how other professions work xD   

They seriously have forgotton how hard it is to even get a 6k hit as any other profession

i mean.... LOOK AT IT!

You can NOT tell me that this is balanced XD

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Sereath.1428]

12 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

The balance is amazing right now.

 

1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Everything I said wasnt meant to fix anything. Because nothing needs fixing.

Ok, you have been very good at trolling for a while now. Almost got me.
👏

[Burial.1958]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I like how those two Rangermains (you know who i am talking about) do mentalgymnastics trying to tell people that ranger is balanced.... 

It is literally using a skill that is not Damagesplit between PvE and PvP.... and its consistently hitting over 10k (highest i have hit is 17,4k)     

Thats not how other professions work xD   

They seriously have forgotton how hard it is to even get a 6k hit as any other profession

i mean.... LOOK AT IT!

You can NOT tell me that this is balanced XD

It is broken af.

[WingSwipe.3084]

4 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

XD
Coal tier players wisdom I see.
Big damage is fine, big damage with high mobility, kitten load of boons, kitten load of defenses is in fact not fine.
You see, there should be something called "cost of opportunity" within class balance in a game if developers care about healthy playerbase, like "if you have big damage, you've weak defenses". I know, for many of you it's an alien concept since you were carried by powercreep far too long.
If you think that nothing needs fixes then nice, this game is as good as dead.

I just wanted to respond and say thank you.

The fact that rangers kits in PVP are min/maxed to hell and back is whats bothering people.

Oneshotting isnt a bad thing, its oneshotting without counterplay that is. Being able to hit heavy armour classes for their entire healthpool in less then a second is so frustrating to play against.
The human reaction time + server latency makes your average reaction time roughly about 0,4 - 0,5 seconds at best. I've been onetapped from stealth having 24k hp in less then that.

Edited August 28, 2023 by WingSwipe.3084

[Sahne.6950]

15 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

The human reaction time + server latency makes your average reaction time roughly about 0,4 - 0,5 seconds at best. I've been onetapped from stealth having 24k hp in less then that.

And now you pair that with the "stealth-delay"... and its impossible to avoid when done right!

 

see the example i posted above:

The Soulbeast pulls with boar F3, but doesnt get revealed just yet, he then uses Boarmaul and only then gets revealed. 

If you pause the video and move it frame by frame, you can see that the Soulbeast gets revealed in the exact frame the mesmer enters downstate.  

How do you counter that?

 

Its funny how you have rangermains in this thread like:   "Just dodge bro"

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Dreams.3128]

Remember when I said that Ranger was gonna fly out of control as soon as Ele got nerf? Man oh man, how people are eating their words now. It is like eating at a buffet right now. And I get to sit back to enjoy every single bite. 🤣

It's like people forget certain classes keep other classes in check and when you nerf them, the problem starts to grow. If Anet would have buffed something like Necro corrupts for Cata or Revs damage to make Eles think twice about attacking very aggressively, we would have probably some sort of check and balance with classes, but NOPE. People in this community want to nerf everything into the floor instead of using critical thinking skills.

Can't wait to see what class gets called out after Ranger. Engie again, maybe? 

[Sahne.6950]

Lets not try and sell Signetcata as a healthy addition to the spvp roster XD

[WingSwipe.3084]

4 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

And now you pair that with the "stealth-delay"... and its impossible to avoid when done right!

in the clip i linked above, you can see how someone dies at the exact same frame that the soulbeast becomes visible.

The Soulbeast pulls, but doesnt get revealed just yet, he then uses Boarmaul and only then gets revealed. 

If you pause the video and move it frame by frame, you can see that he gets visible in the exact frame the mesmer enters downstate.   

How do you counter that?

From a "reaction play" point of view, you cant, its practically impossible to counterplay with the resources that exist.
As a warrior player, unless you have a shield out and time it frame perfect you wont make it, even then you are very likley to lose 50% of your health from the initial barrage.

I think this is where situational awareness plays a heavy factor in what happens in PVP combat. 
But the only way i've seen counterplay to a ranger is teamwork or a massive, and I mean massive, amount of defensive boons.

[Dreams.3128]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Lets not try and sell Signetcata as a healthy addition to the spvp roster XD

Signets in that form wasn't healthy, you're right. But that still doesn't explain half of the other pointless nerfs that had nothing to do with SignetCata in the first place. As I said, this is WELL deserved mostly because people decided to scream out to nerf every other thing on Ele but the actual problem. So now, Rangers can deal with the same issue. I'll pray for them to see if they don't get pointless nerfs before they actually point out the actual problem 🙏

Edited August 28, 2023 by Dreams.3128

[WingSwipe.3084]

Just now, Dreams.3128 said:

Signets in that form wasn't healthy, you're right. But that still doesn't explain half of the other pointless nerfs that had nothing to do with SignetCata in the first place. As I said, this is WELL deserved mostly because people decided to scream out to nerf every other thing on Ele but the actual problem. So now, Rangers can deal with the same issue. I'll pray for them to see if they don't get pointless nerfs before they actually point out the actual problem 🙏

Thats because Anet has a terrible habit of nerfing core traitlines when elite specs are the issue.

Same thing happened to warriors defensive traits when Spellbreaker was overperforming so disgustingly last year.

Shockingly, nerfing core trait viability hurts the profession as a whole, who could have seen this coming?

[Dreams.3128]

Just now, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Thats because Anet has a terrible habit of nerfing core traitlines when elite specs are the issue.

Same thing happened to warriors defensive traits when Spellbreaker was overperforming so disgustingly last year.

Shockingly, nerfing core trait viability hurts the profession as a whole, who could have seen this coming?

I've been shouting this out for YEARS and people still don't get it.  This happened with Engie, Rev, Mes, War, Ele, and Thief. Only ones that haven't felt the effects of their core being gutted was Necro and of course,  our lovely Ranger. If people don't get it now, they won't get it until this game shuts down. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly though outside of a few outlying issues like the Pig Maul coefficient. Soulbeast is fine, it's honestly really fun to see them burst into you only for you turn around and one shot them. 

This right here. When they previewed their logic for the Feb2020 patch and all the changes they were making I know things would fall through the cracks. I even posted a thread that the smarter thing to do would be to limit the amount that damage modifiers could be stacked or cap critical damage in competitive modes. Blanket changes like that would not have things like Pig Maul fall through the cracks and get missed for almost 4 years.

But yes, as has been said, one shots are fine, but there has to be an opportunity cost. If a build is able to pull one shots while also having lots of survivability and boon access beyond might, fury, and quickness then that needs to be addressed. If it goes to the core chassis of the profession that is the problem, then you can make the argument that one shots should not be available to that profession or acknowledge that something about that chassis needs to be changed.

[Endo.1652]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:49 PM, Domino.1359 said:

Once you get G3+, plat, it's fairly common to see around 2 power rangers per team.

That sounds pretty mighty morphin bro

[Downstate.4697]

I like the part where you play a 13k health willbender and you die to just warhorn 4 and OWP. 
 

Soulbeast is not fine. It has counter play and doesn’t win everything, but it wins fights it normally wouldn’t.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

9 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I find it helps to compare the level of effort needed to fight from both perspectives.

A blind folded ranger, who isn't reacting to anything, can literally press a sequence of ~3-4 buttons and often secure a kill.

Meanwhile, you're writing up a detailed strategy that only really applies in good scenarios (dodges up, block up, stab for pet knockdowns?, and perfect execution), to avoid the MULTIPLE stuns and 6 - 15k bursts that ranger is throwing out at you.

This doesn't seem wrong to you? It should lol.

My opinion is that: SB is not the only thing that does this kind of burst gameplay (so when it gets nerfed there will be another one right behind it). The issue is not having meaningful options present to counter-play dominating strategies…something as simple as toughness existing in the game mode might actually quell the insurgence in this kind of build.

Additionally before ever crying nerfs I believe there exists out there in the build space, a build that can deal with SB…whether people are clever enough to find what that might be remains to be the deciding factor. I do think those exist cause it seems some people don’t have that much of an issue with them and they do have some weaknesses (like being squishy) 

Your right though in that SB will normally appear to clean you up when you have no CD’s…but this is kinda part of the game mode fundamentally…you wanna clean people out who spent their CD’s not anticipating getting plused by a plus 1er. That’s where zoning strategies help players who are occupied in a fight not have to deal with getting plused.

Finally: I don’t think nerfing it won’t do much of anything unless you nerf it out of existence. I’d much rather that not happen. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

9 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Additionally before ever crying nerfs I believe there exists out there in the build space, a build that can deal with SB…whether people are clever enough to find what that might be remains to be the deciding factor. I do think those exist cause it seems some people don’t have that much of an issue with them and they do have some weaknesses (like being squishy) 

If you watch the MAT or any match for that matter, it is quite clear than anything toughness/condi related just counters Soulbeast all to hell.

Right now as the top example, current Condiserk is like immune to Soulbeast unless the Condiserk is just a really bad player.

[jdawgie.1835]

10 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Coal tier players wisdom I see.

Insults? 

10 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

yo be careful w this advice

back in the day when the population was over double it is now, there was the ability for these pvp players who all wanted to play as a team and work together to actually play together. apparently this was ruining the game, and even tho population has only shrunk since it was removed, and all the pvp guild died too. so be careful. apparently teamwork and thinking is toxic and you should probably be banned for you wanting to heal or peel for your teammate.

This is the truth about my post -  @TrollingDemigod.3041 Its ironic because your tag suggests you use facts and logic (the root of my posts) and that you roll your eyes at emotional damage from being confronted with the truth. Unless I misunderstand your response - your acting against your own tag line. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[coro.3176]

Just now, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If you watch the MAT or any match for that matter, it is quite clear than anything toughness/condi related just counters Soulbeast all to hell.

Right now as the top example, current Condiserk is like immune to Soulbeast unless the Condiserk is just a really bad player.

What is toughness? I know for kitten sure, there's no amulet I can stick on my condi engi that's going to let it go up against that kind of burst. Doesn't matter if I land literally everything. Doesn't matter if they have no cleanse at all. That condi is going to take .. what, 10s at least to kill them? They only need less than 1 to kill me. I basically can't take a single hit.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

XD

You see, there should be something called "cost of opportunity" within class balance in a game if developers care about healthy playerbase, like "if you have big damage, you've weak defenses." 

It's called weak to condis my dude.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 minutes ago, coro.3176 said:

What is toughness? I know for kitten sure, there's no amulet I can stick on my condi engi that's going to let it go up against that kind of burst. Doesn't matter if I land literally everything. Doesn't matter if they have no cleanse at all. That condi is going to take .. what, 10s at least to kill them? They only need less than 1 to kill me. I basically can't take a single hit.

Carrion amulet? Got 25k HP when equipping that, the only thing you have to do is learn how to dodge the burst.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 minutes ago, coro.3176 said:

What is toughness? I know for kitten sure, there's no amulet I can stick on my condi engi that's going to let it go up against that kind of burst. Doesn't matter if I land literally everything. Doesn't matter if they have no cleanse at all. That condi is going to take .. what, 10s at least to kill them? They only need less than 1 to kill me. I basically can't take a single hit.

Yeah, that's a core engi problem, not a soulbeast problem.

I mean seriously, you play anything with toughness/condi and a couple tricks that stop evade frames like spectral ring or ring of ward or slick shoes, you can turn the 1shot right around on the soulbeast and 1shot it back.

-- Important to note -- that evade frames on soulbeast cannot go over force effects like spectral ring, line of ward right of ward, slick shoes, dragon maw, DH f1 pull, ect ect. There are so many ways to completely interupt and stop the soulbeast's offense. Start using them.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Carrion amulet? Got 25k HP when equipping that, the only thing you have to do is learn how to dodge the burst.

Vitality is not much of the answer in this situation. Least not from my own experiences yesterday running around with 20k HP. The burst is really that strong (20k clap from just birds) you really need a combo of sustain, resistance to damage and either a lot of damage yourself or condi.

whatever the solution is, it will have to be pretty novel. I’m expecting a borked out condi tank…

Edited August 28, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684