Astral Acclaim limit of 1300 in Wizard's Vault [Merged]

[ShatteredStars.6548]

13 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I think it's absolutely player-unfriendly that you can only have a maximum of 1300 Astral Acclaim in the Wizard's Vault and everything above that expires. Because it forces you to buy things even if you don't really want/need them, if you don't want to lose further Astral Acclaim.

What do you think: Will Anet put an “astral acclaim storage expander” in the gem store at some point? Would make sense from a greedy microtransaction monetization perspective.

 

Greedy? they made this battlepass free when other companies ask for money and players are still angry about a 100% free battlepass?

Edited August 30, 2023 by vrauns.3215

[Trejgon.9367]

45 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Or he could do one set of weeklies per season for 20++ seasons for exactly the same result. The overall amount of play and effort put into it would remain exactly the same. So, your point was?

Here is a thing you don't seem to take into consideration - if someone does all the dailies, all the weeklies, and all the special tasks, the total AA generated over span of 75 days is in great excess of what is needed to buy out every single season-limited thing in the store. Which without the cap would mean that you could play very actively for one season, and then buy out most of next season stuff on day one.

[Zok.4956]

21 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not like OP really doesn't have anything to spend on.

Of course not. There's still a lot I *can* buy, but there's nothing left that's worth enough to me that I'd want to buy with AA. I don't care about the offered skins or the ascended armor/weapons. And I think the "build storage expansion" is crap. So I will buy next all the items that do have a sellable gold value. To buy something useful. But is it fun? I don't hink so.

 

30 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

why is ovecapping currency an issue?

Last time I checked, I could not overcap. Because the game only lets you get the achievements if you do not overcap the 1300. I understand why, so nothing gets lost. So the game constantly reminds me (with the  annoying exclamation mark hint) to buy something.

"Loosing" currency/aa is not fun. Being "forced" into buying something of little/no value is not fun. Setting the achievement selector to a game mode I don't play isn't fun. Not playing just so I don't get this achievements isn't fun. 

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

It's also the opposite to a player unfriendly system. Having a cap is a barrier against having to keep logging in or doing the tasks and constantly gain AA. This way if you hit 1000 AA you can ignore them for a bit. Or gain them at your own pace. This is a good thing

There are different daily/weekly caps in the game. But the vault not only has a daily and weekly cap but also a total cap.

I can think of several reasons why Anet implemented this very system. From Anet's point of view, this can make sense. But why is the aa cap a good thing for the game and the players?
 

[Zok.4956]

24 minutes ago, vrauns.3215 said:

6 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

What do you think: Will Anet put an “astral acclaim storage expander” in the gem store at some point? Would make sense from a greedy microtransaction monetization perspective.

Greedy? they made this battlepass free when other companies ask for money and players are still angry about a 100 % battlepass?

I think you misunderstood the meaning of that sentence above, which is about the hypothetical possibility of an "astral acclaim storage expander". And besides, this isn't about any other games.

[ShatteredStars.6548]

Just now, Zok.4956 said:

I think you misunderstood the meaning of that sentence above, which is about the hypothetical possibility of an "astral acclaim storage expander". And besides, this isn't about any other games.

You said greedy, so yes it does.

[Randulf.7614]

11 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

There are different daily/weekly caps in the game. But the vault not only has a daily and weekly cap but also a total cap.

I can think of several reasons why Anet implemented this very system. From Anet's point of view, this can make sense. But why is the aa cap a good thing for the game and the players?
 

It's right there in the quote. It removes the pressure to constantly keep logging in and doing dailies/weeklies above all else - they can be skipped and not feel they are left out. Same reason daily AP has a cap. Caps help manage players who would otherwise feel they must keep up. It also encourages buying stuff which is healthy for the game and its economy.

Caps are part of a responsible management system that are in the best interest of both the game and the players

Edited August 30, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[PyaKura.4895]

38 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

"Loosing" currency/aa is not fun. Being "forced" into buying something of little/no value is not fun. 

I don't understand how you're losing anything. At worst you simply get less value out of your AA, but you don't - cannot, even - "lose" anything. Heck, you would need to go out of your way to get "nothing" - which would still be better than "losing" anything which is not what's happening.

Yes you might not be getting much out of your AA but you're still getting something, and probably more than you would have doing dailies pre-SotO. Just move on at this point.

Edited August 30, 2023 by PyaKura.4895

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

the only real problem i have with the cap...

is (this is the logic leading up to my problem) IF i understand correctly, once capped at 1300 AA, i can't complete (claim the rewards on) more daily / weekly / special achievements until i spend AA on something, so the vault make room for more AA so that i can complete more  Wizard's Vault achievements, meaning (my problem) i can't get the daily 10 Achievement Points from completing the Wizard's Vault Daily Achievement.

otherwise, if there's nothing i want to spend AA on (nothing i want to buy), what difference does it make if i can't earn a currency i'll never spend?

Edited August 30, 2023 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

you can't round an a infinity number, baka!

No, but I can round certain number representations to infinity.

[Zok.4956]

8 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

It's right there in the quote. It removes the pressure to constantly keep logging in and doing dailies/weeklies above all else - they can be skipped and not feel they are left out. Same reason daily AP has a cap. Caps help manage players who would otherwise feel they must keep up. It also encourages buying stuff which is healthy for the game and its economy.

Caps are part of a responsible management system that are in the best interest of both the game and the players

That's a very general answer that doesn't actually answer the question. Because if someone is always tempted to buy any stuff with aa in time, the 1300 aa cap doesn't matter. But in return, a behavior is encouraged to buy things even if you don't really want them.

So the result of the 1300 AA Cap isn't not to overdo the gaming, it's more of an incentive to buy things.

[Randulf.7614]

3 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

That's a very general answer that doesn't actually answer the question. Because if someone is always tempted to buy any stuff with aa in time, the 1300 aa cap doesn't matter. But in return, a behavior is encouraged to buy things even if you don't really want them.

So the result of the 1300 AA Cap isn't not to overdo the gaming, it's more of an incentive to buy things.

It answers your quesion completely. Not agreeing or like the answer doesnt make it "general" or "not answering the question"

So yes, the cap is a friendly system that allows freedom to players to choose to do the content or ignore. That doesn't mean it isn't also an incentive to buy things. The two ideas work hand in hand rather well.

Also, it's a strange argument to say players are forced to buy items they don't want. Yet, the login/daily system gave the same rewards automatically. This just allows more freedom of choice, plus a few extra luxuries into the mix. If players are hitting the cap and just continuing to hoard, Im not sure how that is a good thing for anyone

[Gorani.7205]

I don't think that the general limit of 1300 AA is a problem. The deviation from the "bouncy chest" had people confused though (Once you finish the achievement you have to actively click both the single achievement (e.g. craft 3 rare items) and the category achievement (e.g. the completed daily chest). I think that is what got people confused.

The limit makes you repeatedly chose rewards, you just can't "click, forget & hoard" like you did with the old system. I actually like, that I can skip the Luck essences etc., which I do not need any more for something else. If you care to ponder a while, you don't miss-click on the wrong coin box, too ... and for all the newcomers: They get Legendary gear reliable from dailies! No waiting for a extremely rare drop, no expensive crafting of the precursor weapon, even some Gifts for the final process.

[Danikat.8537]

One thing to consider is this is replacing the login reward and daily reward systems where you got a pre-determined item whether you wanted it or not. So if the worst case scenario for people who don't want any of the rewards but also don't want to miss out on accumulating more of the currency is having to get something they don't actually want then it's no worse than the previous system.

The only difference is you get to choose which of the 'useless' items is the least useless (or least undesirable) for you. Maybe pick laurels so it can just go into your wallet and be forgotten, or luck so you can just right-click, use all and it's gone.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

"Loosing" currency/aa is not fun. Being "forced" into buying something of little/no value is not fun. Setting the achievement selector to a game mode I don't play isn't fun. Not playing just so I don't get this achievements isn't fun. 

You could just spend it on MCs, Laurels and such you know. 

When you first opened the WV panel it asked you which categories you wanted. Clicking okay without reading is not the game's fault, it's user error.

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

One thing to consider is this is replacing the login reward and daily reward systems where you got a pre-determined item whether you wanted it or not.
(...)
The only difference is you get to choose which of the 'useless' items is the least useless (or least undesirable) for you.

Thanks. Yes, after a coffee break, I think that is the main difference that bothers me.

I somehow already wrote it at the very beginning in the first post, but the discussions and answers in between may have meandered a bit.

I've gotten used to worthless things in my inventory and how to get rid of them. I don't want to be greedy or ungrateful either, and I think it's good that with the new system you can get things with aa that until then you could only buy with gold/gems.

But it bothers me that I'm being manipulated (in a way) by the game into buying things I don't think are worth buying. I think this is a kind of "dark pattern" to train a certain behavior. It doesn't matter that I get the AA simply by playing or that I probably got less with the old system or that I can just buy bag of gold with AA.

For players who are already familiar with, or have become accustomed to, such a battlepass-system, or who are excited about the things that can be purchased with this system, my point of view may be difficult to understand. And I suspect that there will not be many players who see it the same way.

[ShatteredStars.6548]

4 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Thanks. Yes, after a coffee break, I think that is the main difference that bothers me.

I somehow already wrote it at the very beginning in the first post, but the discussions and answers in between may have meandered a bit.

I've gotten used to worthless things in my inventory and how to get rid of them. I don't want to be greedy or ungrateful either, and I think it's good that with the new system you can get things with aa that until then you could only buy with gold/gems.

But it bothers me that I'm being manipulated (in a way) by the game into buying things I don't think are worth buying. I think this is a kind of "dark pattern" to train a certain behavior. It doesn't matter that I get the AA simply by playing or that I probably got less with the old system or that I can just buy bag of gold with AA.

For players who are already familiar with, or have become accustomed to, such a battlepass-system, or who are excited about the things that can be purchased with this system, my point of view may be difficult to understand. And I suspect that there will not be many players who see it the same way.

Other battlepass systems have rewards you have to claim, not ones you want to claim.

other battlepasses make you get the rewards they choose.

Edited August 30, 2023 by vrauns.3215

[Darklord Roy.2514]

5 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

No. I want to target the things I want and then buy them without hoarding aa. But the current system means that at some point (sooner or later) in the course of a quarter, the "valuable" things are no longer available.

So then do exactly that. Buy all the things you want, and then when you no longer care about any other items in the store, you can simply turn all the AA that you continue to get through the season into raw gold. Most things do have a cap to them, but the 30 AA gold bags are infinite so you can buy them throughout the entire season.

There is no real reason for increasing the cap when it's already 300 AA higher than the cost of the most expensive rewards. Realistically, if you have already purchased all the things you want, there's no purpose in stocking up on AA to the point that you would hit the cap in the first place. Just turn it into gold and do whatever you want with it.

Also, increasing the cap isn't going to make your issue of "the valuable things eventually run out" go away. With current caps, the system is already significantly more rewarding per quarter than a comparable 3 months of login + daily rewards in the previous system. Removing any of the caps isn't gonna make it more player friendly, it's just gonna ruin the game's economy. If you could buy as many mystic coins or clovers as you could afford (just as an example), why would you buy anything else?

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sidenote: it took me maybe 20 minutes to do 6/6 weekly milestone this week.

If someone cares about AA, they don't stop at 6.

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sidenote: it took me maybe 20 minutes to do 6/6 weekly milestone this week. Ans someone that would care about the game so much they'd be invested in getting the rewards for the next 4 years without fail would definitely play more than that in each season anyway.

Hint: in your example the player plays more now - where it matters most for Anet. And if in the future they were to stop playing, they'd probably have stopped playing anyway.

...you missed the majority of the post:

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And when he starts playing for a week, there's a chance (actually pretty high, unless he simply dislikes the game altogether) there will be something he likes playing so he'll play a bit more. Meanwhile when he opts out for log in, buy out a stack of gold, log out ritual, he's not going to play at all. He'll "just get some optimalized gold in case he ever wants to go back to playing". You might think these two things are somehow the same, but they really aren't.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[phandaria.4891]

1 hour ago, Zok.4956 said:

But it bothers me that I'm being manipulated (in a way) by the game into buying things I don't think are worth buying. I think this is a kind of "dark pattern" to train a certain behavior. It doesn't matter that I get the AA simply by playing or that I probably got less with the old system or that I can just buy bag of gold with AA.

Partly agree. The current skins offered do not interest me. I would like to save up for future potential skins that I might like, but unable due to this 1300 cap. However this "dark pattern" you mentioned is a bit of a stretch. 

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Last time I checked, I could not overcap. Because the game only lets you get the achievements if you do not overcap the 1300. I understand why, so nothing gets lost. So the game constantly reminds me (with the  annoying exclamation mark hint) to buy something.

"Overcapping" in the meaning that you finish objectives which would get you more currency, but you won't because it's capped. I thought the rest of the post you quoted 1/10th of would make that part clear, but if it wasn't, I hope it is now.

4 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

"Loosing" currency/aa is not fun. Being "forced" into buying something of little/no value is not fun. Setting the achievement selector to a game mode I don't play isn't fun.

In terms of this currency, buying rewards is its point and the whole "fun" it provides. Why do you care about "losing currency" when you said you don't want to hoard it and you aren't interested in other rewards anyways? That currency has little/no value to you then.
Why would you "set the achievement selector to a game mode you don't play"? Where did this one even come from?

 

4 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

So I will buy next all the items that do have a sellable gold value. To buy something useful. But is it fun?

You keep using that "fun" word, but what would be fun here? You don't want to hoard, you don't want to buy anything other than gold, but when you buy gold it's... still not fun? What point are you exactly trying to make? Don't want to buy it? Then don't. Want more gold? Then buy it for the currency.
I still wonder why losing currency you just estimated as low/no value is supposed to feel bad. If it has low/no value, you shouldn't even care about it and do whatever else you want. Increasing cap won't suddenly make it any more "fun" or increase its value. So what's your point with all of this?

Edited August 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758
to

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...you missed the majority of the post:

And you missed the part where i mentioned that someone that went full bore on WV system for one quarter just to stock on AAs is not likely to do it and then stop playing completely while still continuing to log in just to buy stuff for next 5 years. Not unless there would be some other issues that would make that person stop playing, in which case they would have did that either way.

In short, lack of cap won't make anyone stop playing. Cap however might lower incentive for engaging with the system.

[Sylvyn.4750]

The odd thing to me is that they also made AA be a wallet currency, and every other wallet currency has no real limit...anything that has a cap like this should not also be a wallet currency.  You see your total in the vault, so just leave it out of the wallet.  Makes me think they initially intended for there to be no cap, but then they decided to cap it near the end.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Sylvyn.4750

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And you missed the part where i mentioned that someone that went full bore on WV system for one quarter just to stock on AAs is not likely to do it and then stop playing completely while still continuing to log in just to buy stuff for next 5 years.

I didn't miss that, the fact is that exact situation was mentioned in my previous post you initially responded to, was I supposed to repeat that again? Ok, here: 

(...)As a result what you want is play now, wait for the currency to accumulate and then buy out "that thing you want" every seasonal change, possibly without playing. That makes it an attempt to use this as new login rewards in the longer run. That's why you want to hoard currency and that's probably also EXACTLY why anet introduced that limit in the first place.

 

So... now you can go back to the rest of the post you previously missed?

6 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And when he starts playing for a week, there's a chance (actually pretty high, unless he simply dislikes the game altogether) there will be something he likes playing so he'll play a bit more. Meanwhile when he opts out for log in, buy out a stack of gold, log out ritual, he's not going to play at all. He'll "just get some optimalized gold in case he ever wants to go back to playing". You might think these two things are somehow the same, but they really aren't.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sylvyn.4750]

When they say the exclusive skins that you don't manage to buy this season will still be in the vault for the next season but at a higher price, I would hope the mount skin that costs 1k AA this season doesn't end up costing more than 1,300 next season...unless they take layaway plans? 😉

Edited August 30, 2023 by Sylvyn.4750