[Feedback] Legendary Obsidian Armor

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Yes, it's coming from the same people, because we exactly said that the only way Anet would do it is like this, insane grind, which at the time was "fine", but now that it's a thing it's funnily not fine anymore.

How is it weird then that proposals from players that wanted the idea to fail were not met with good reception then, when you mentioned them first time, and still weren't met with good reception now, when they were put in reality?

[Okhu.7948]

World PvErs asked for this.

[vares.8457]

31 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

How is it weird then that proposals from players that wanted the idea to fail were not met with good reception then, when you mentioned them first time, and still weren't met with good reception now, when they were put in reality?

This is simply not true. There were many open world players who wanted a long grind and whenever the amount of grind was brought into the discussion open world players were okay that it will be way more than raids or WvW.  So the idea was mostly met with good reception. 
 

 

25 minutes ago, Okhu.7948 said:

World PvErs asked for this.

yes, they got exactly what they asked for and yet they are crying. But I and many others predicted this. 
 

I did some t3 rifts with the guild today, it was actually fun we were all in voice and had a good time. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by vares.8457

[Astralporing.1957]

51 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

This is simply not true. There were many open world players who wanted a long grind and whenever the amount of grind was brought into the discussion open world players were okay that it will be way more than raids or WvW.  So the idea was mostly met with good reception.

What was being talked (and agreed upon) by OW players in those threads has about as much in common with Rifts as (to give instanced content equivalent example) Raids have with DRMs. You keep insisting  on ignoring those differences however. I do not want to think you are doing it intentionally and knowingly, so i will just assume you simply lack any understanding of OW content and OW players' mindset.

[vares.8457]

38 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

What was being talked (and agreed upon) by OW players in those threads has about as much in common with Rifts as (to give instanced content equivalent example) Raids have with DRMs. You keep insisting  on ignoring those differences however. I do not want to think you are doing it intentionally and knowingly, so i will just assume you simply lack any understanding of OW content and OW players' mindset.

I was part of many of the discussions and remember very well what open world players in these discussions wanted. 
So no I don’t lack any understanding of open world content or open world players mindset. You on the other hand seem to have forgotten much of these discussions. 

No matter how much you are complaining, it doesn’t change the fact that Anet did what open world players asked for.  You only have to do open world content, no raids or other instanced content, no WvW or PvP. 

And after the months of complaining from open world players (including you) that the great DE meta is too difficult, I think rifts are good content for open world players to get the legendary armor. This is what they are obviously capable of doing on their own.  Many open world players are not very good at this game and don’t really know how to play properly so they had to come up with something everyone can do.
It looks like you lack any understanding of open world players mindset. 
You don’t like doing rifts? Great, there are three other ways to get legendary armor, no one is forced to do rifts. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by vares.8457

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

What was being talked (and agreed upon) by OW players in those threads has about as much in common with Rifts as (to give instanced content equivalent example) Raids have with DRMs.

No, the proposed methods were boring and grindy, with agreement that it should take a long time, but now the complaint is that the ow method is... boring and grindy, while you keep repeating your false claim over and over again. Except anyone reading and remembering those threads knows what kind of methods were also being proposed there -and not by people "opposing it"- and rifts aren't exactly far from them at all.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Ashantara.8731]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You mean since never? because OW players never actually asked for anything like that. The only people okay with monotonous and lengthy grinds would be hardcore farmers, which OW players for the most part are not.

Funny how all the "people asked for this" comments come from people that even in original threads didn't even try to hide they do not even understand what OW legandary armor proposers want and why, and the only thing they understood from those proposals was that they were against them.

This. When I play in OW, I dive into its multifaceted contents, not into one single activity day in and day out.

6 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Yes, it's coming from the same people, because we exactly said that the only way Anet would do it is like this, insane grind, which at the time was "fine", but now that it's a thing it's funnily not fine anymore.

As Astralporing said, you only make such claims because you want those people to suffer through it, because... reasons ("You don't want to play raids? Suffer, you noobs!"). 😉

Seriously, how anyone with a bit of common sense would go for the argument that anyone in their right mind actually asked to grind one single activity for months is completely beyond me. 😄

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

4 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

As Astralporing said, you only make such claims because you want those people to suffer through it, because... reasons ("You don't want to play raids? Suffer, you noobs!"). 😉

Seriously, how anyone with a bit of common sense would go for the argument that anyone in their right mind actually asked to grind one single activity for months is completely beyond me. 😄

Yes, I only say these, because people said grindy OW Legendary would be perfectly fine, but now there's complaining that OW Legendary is grindy. I'm not saying that they should suffer, I'm saying they shouldn't be complaining for getting what they asked for.

[BlueJin.4127]

7 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

Some Open World players are like politicians, they don’t remember what they said yesterday. 
I remember many threads and posts from open world players that basically asked for a long and monotonous grind for open world legendary armor. 
So yeah, Anet did what these people asked for. 

I'm a casual open world PVE player. Please link the post that I made where I asked for open world legendary armors that require mindless repetition with absolutely no challenge, variety, or engaging gameplay. All I see from your posts is prejudice based on over generalization and your lack of understanding of the diversity of the player base.

Open world PVE players are more diverse than you think you know. Some are skilled, some are not. Some want challenge, some don't. You keep saying open world players want mindless stuff like rifts, except that many of these replies are clearly showing you that there are also plenty of open world players who do not want mindless stuff like rifts, and that they want more variety in the open world for obtaining essences. Just saying rifts are what PVE players want and anyone who doesn't like rifts should go do raids/pvp/wvw clearly shows you don't know the player base as much as you think you do.

Edited September 19, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[Gibson.4036]

On 9/18/2023 at 11:33 AM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Well, this is what people asked for. Open World grinding that involve no challenge and only PvE.

 

The bulk of the request was an OW path to legendary armor. Quit implying that most people requesting that were dreaming of the simplest, most repetitive task possible. It’s dishonest.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, the proposed methods were boring and grindy

Thanks for clearly illustrating how you completely lack understanding of what motivates OW players.

Hint: what was proposed seemed boring and grindy to you. Not to the proposers. And, again, Rifts are not something anyone in those threads suggested. Nor did anyone suggest repeating single narrow content literal thousands of times. So, please, do not try to misrepresent what those threads were all about.

What you keep repeating is (again) about as much true as trying to claim that DRMs and Shiverpeaks Strike are the exact same thing as Raids.

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Thanks for clearly illustrating how you completely lack understanding of what motivates OW players.

Hint: what was proposed seemed boring and grindy to you. Not to the proposers. And, again, Rifts are not something anyone in those threads suggested. Nor did anyone suggest repeating single narrow content literal thousands of times. So, please, do not try to misrepresent what those threads were all about.

What you keep repeating is (again) about as much true as trying to claim that DRMs and Shiverpeaks Strike are the exact same thing as Raids.

Nope. Hint: as mentioned plenty of times and every single time left without answer by you, repeatedly camping world bosses surely isn't any more interesting than going after rifts. At this point it's rather clear it's not about "content being repetitive" or "boring", but about people not being able to log in on timer, tag a boss once and be done with it. 

Ah -and proposed numbers of repetitions weren't excatly all that different from the needed number of rifts repetitions if we count using motivations and not benefiting from weekly rifts achievements at all. And yes, it was proposed by players who actually wanted that way, as opposed to what you keep repeating in your posts now.

 

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The bulk of the request was an OW path to legendary armor. Quit implying that most people requesting that were dreaming of the simplest, most repetitive task possible. It’s dishonest.

Of course "the request was for an ow path", but that doesn't change the fact did people keep saying it's not about being faster or easier and that it can indeed be grindy. Pretty sure you knew well (...who didn't?) whatever way you'd get, something would need to be repeated xyz times. Not sure by what logic it shouldn't be.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Zera.9435]

Those of you who are saying we 'got what we asked for' are dead wrong. What we wanted was something that involves going all over the game world and doing a large variety of open world content like we had to do for Prismatic Champion's Regalia, or even Vision and Aurora, or any of the gen 1 precursor collections. THAT is open world legendary.  What we got was monotonous repetition of one tiny aspect of the open world that you can do consistently and efficiently in really only one feasible map thanks to griffon.

I don't mind doing rifts. I don't mind a time investment. What I do mind is needing tens of thousands of each of 3 different currencies that you can only get from rifts and nowhere else. When was the last time you needed 10800 of any one item in this game?  How about 21600?  54000? How about 10800 ectos? Or the many thousands more of those very same currencies needed to craft enough motivations just to do the content?  Open world variety like we got with the work for Prismatic Champion's Regalia, Vision, and Aurora were  serious time investments, but at least it was engaging and fun (not to mention a little profitable).

We can only hope that they add essences as rewards to map metas to help supplement a little, or that the next (last) map offers more essences.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

7 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Yes, I only say these, because people said grindy OW Legendary would be perfectly fine, but now there's complaining that OW Legendary is grindy. I'm not saying that they should suffer, I'm saying they shouldn't be complaining for getting what they asked for.

wrong...collections is a good way to acquire them...not massive farming + collections, though the crafting portions is a nice touch its too kitten much

[Linken.6345]

22 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You mean since never? because OW players never actually asked for anything like that. The only people okay with monotonous and lengthy grinds would be hardcore farmers, which OW players for the most part are not.

Funny how all the "people asked for this" comments come from people that even in original threads didn't even try to hide they do not even understand what OW legandary armor proposers want and why, and the only thing they understood from those proposals was that they were against them.

Yuo where saying?

23 minutes ago, Sawyer.4127 said:

1. I like some of the legendaries, I like the convenience that comes with them. And despite popular belief, I'm quite entitled to want to make one and still not want to play PvP/WvW.

21 minutes ago, Sawyer.4127 said:

I'd love to earn my own legendaries, and I have already and I do enjoy majority of the process behind it. Nobody is asking for "easy" or "faster". Quite the opposite actually. I'll take harder and slower if it means I can continue to play the game mode I enjoy. And honestly if that's not good enough, then I feel like you're just looking to make people miserable. And for what? 

[Linken.6345]

9 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Those of you who are saying we 'got what we asked for' are dead wrong. What we wanted was something that involves going all over the game world and doing a large variety of open world content like we had to do for Prismatic Champion's Regalia, or even Vision and Aurora, or any of the gen 1 precursor collections. THAT is open world legendary.  What we got was monotonous repetition of one tiny aspect of the open world that you can do consistently and efficiently in really only one feasible map thanks to griffon.

I don't mind doing rifts. I don't mind a time investment. What I do mind is needing tens of thousands of each of 3 different currencies that you can only get from rifts and nowhere else. When was the last time you needed 10800 of any one item in this game?  How about 21600?  54000? How about 10800 ectos? Or the many thousands more of those very same currencies needed to craft enough motivations just to do the content?  Open world variety like we got with the work for Prismatic Champion's Regalia, Vision, and Aurora were  serious time investments, but at least it was engaging and fun (not to mention a little profitable).

We can only hope that they add essences as rewards to map metas to help supplement a little, or that the next (last) map offers more essences.

You do remember that the cost to make those collections is why only 4 gen 2 have those right?

Then they took forever to introduce the other 12 to complete gen 2.

And then gen 3 is a copy paste on all of the added skins aint it?

And yea the final stage might still very well be a collection going all around the world for all we know tho.

[Astralporing.1957]

33 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yuo where saying?

Yeah. I were saying. You might reread what you actually quoted, because what you highlighted clearly show that people asked for a path through the content they will enjoy doing. And not through something that is there "to make people miserable".

Hint: allowing for longer (but enjoyable) path is not the same as asking for a boring joyless minddumbing grind of extreme proportions.

So, again, people did not ask for what we've got at all.

[rawisz.6439]

SOTO was advertised as selfcontained expansion focused to bring new players to game - new story, new begining, "you dont need to know what happened previously, jump straight to new maps". Its pretty obvious that they couldnt put legendary armor and give collection/events from whole world because there would be cry about forcing ppl to buy previous expansions/living stories to obtain it. Other legendaries also needed only expansion in which they were introduced. So i dont know why anyone would even assume that there will be travel through previous maps... They were limited to only 2maps in SOTO + core game.

You compain about amount of rifts required but they didnt even release whole content yet. With t4 rifts and convergences it will be probably much faster then right now. Is it even that much considering how many ppl already have full sets of essence ready to go?

[Zera.9435]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

You do remember that the cost to make those collections is why only 4 gen 2 have those right?

Then they took forever to introduce the other 12 to complete gen 2.

And then gen 3 is a copy paste on all of the added skins aint it?

And yea the final stage might still very well be a collection going all around the world for all we know tho.

Yes, I get that it's a lot of work for the devs to make the collections. I also get that it takes time to make the content, but that's what they're getting paid to do as game developers. Instead, they opted for requiring a ridiculous amount of essences in lieu of actual open world engagement. That's my disappointment: they demonstrated that they were capable of making engaging content with Prismatic Regalia and Aurora, but chose not to.

This is also an example of why some people felt like they bought an 'incomplete' and rushed expansion. In particular, I bought the expansion really only because I was interested in the open world armor set, so you can imagine my surprise that the expansion itself is going to be released in parts over the course of like a year. Why not just delay the expansion a little and release a complete expansion? All I can do is try to enjoy myself, but so far it's not been all that fun. It's... just ok.

Sure, there may be some parts later on that could involve going to more places, but that doesn't address the issue of needing several tens of thousand of the three different items that you can only get from one thing. The least they can do is add some of all 3 essence types as part of the reward for Amnytas meta since it is just one big kitten rift event. Perhaps they can do something like at least 20 T1, 15 T2, and 10 T3. It's not a lot, but it's something and it's kind of in line of doing one of each rift type. I don't know man I'm just throwing ideas out there that could make the overall experience better. This is a feedback thread, and I'm giving feedback. Whether or not ArenaNet pays attention to that feedback is out of my hands.

[Zera.9435]

23 minutes ago, rawisz.6439 said:

 Is it even that much considering how many ppl already have full sets of essence ready to go?

I have no idea. I have no way of looking at the banks/inventories of other players. Please tell me how many players are sitting on 54000 despair essences, 21600 greed essences, 10800 triumph essences, and 10800 ectos? I've only managed to get a little over 2000 triumph so far, and I've been using my despair and greed essences to make the motivations to do the T3, so I basically have only about double digit despair and greed essences at the moment.

[rawisz.6439]

4 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

I have no idea. I have no way of looking at the banks/inventories of other players. Please tell me how many players are sitting on 54000 despair essences, 21600 greed essences, 10800 triumph essences, and 10800 ectos? I've only managed to get a little over 2000 triumph so far, and I've been using my despair and greed essences to make the motivations to do the T3, so I basically have only about double digit despair and greed essences at the moment.

Numbers you put are for all 3 weight of armor, dont know if its mistake or you try to exagarate amount of essence needed.

Lets do quick math, if you want to decrease amount of grind and buy essence from TP (kryptis motivations) you get 3-7 essence for luring boss + 6-13 for killing boss + 19-31 for kryptis motivation  = 28-51 essences per rift. It means 450 t1, 180 t2 and 90 t3 rifts to collect all essences needed for 1 set of armor (avg 40essence/rift with motivation). After 1 month since release of expansions you get 15 t1,  6 t2 and 3 t3 rifts per day.  Is this some huge amount of grind? There is 6month since release of expansion till release of armor, it means that if you have gold you need only 2.5 t1 per day,  ~1 t2 per day and 1 t3 every 2nd day.  And its not even counting what you get extra from weekly rift hunting.

Edited September 20, 2023 by rawisz.6439

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

I have no idea. I have no way of looking at the banks/inventories of other players.

Some people were sharing they have enough essence for the full set ~2-3 weeks after the soto release. That's by actually "grinding" them. And sure, it will take longer without hyperfocusing on rift grinds, but it's not nearly as much as some people here like to claim. Note that the number of rifts needed to complete go consistently down if you DON'T grind them since weeklies rewarding additional essence chests are a thing. Also considering the numbers of t1/2/3 essence I have without grinding them, these numbers are rather far from something unreasonable for legendaries. Perhaps people complaining about it should focus less on wanting it asap and chip at the materials here and there over longer periods of time exactly as it was requested so many times.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[BlueJin.4127]

As stated many times, for many of us, it's not so much about time or resources needed to get the upcoming legendary armors. Many of us already have a lot of legendary weapons and trinkets from various modes, so we're well aware of the time and resources needed to make legendaries.

The problem with the upcoming open world legendary armors is that it is mindlessly repetitive, at least in its current state. PvP and WvW are very dynamic, so they're nowhere as repetitive as fighting PVE enemies. Raids are not as dynamic, but you do get dozens of bosses all with their own dangerous mechanics that you must learn. On the other hand, all rifts are basically the same mindless thing with little variation. The first phase is the same for all 3 tiers. The final bosses have few mechanics to discern one boss from another. We really could use more variety for obtaining essences, sooner rather than later.

As disappointed as I am with how essences are obtained at the moment, I'm not too concerned about farming essences for legendary armors. I'm quite confident we'll get more variety for getting essences before we get legendary armors months from now. There's also plenty of time so there is no need to burn oneself out farming them ASAP. Right now, I just occasionally buy motivations from the TP (since crafting uncommon and rare motivations result in losing essences) and do rifts on the side, in between my other GW2 activities.

Edited September 20, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[Sobx.1758]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:35 PM, BlueJin.4127 said:

 

The problem with the upcoming open world legendary armors is that it is mindlessly repetitive, at least in its current state. PvP and WvW are very dynamic, so they're nowhere as repetitive as fighting PVE enemies. Raids are not as dynamic, but you do get dozens of bosses all with their own dangerous mechanics that you must learn. On the other hand, all rifts are basically the same mindless thing with little variation.

Mate -if people requesting another pve way to armor were ok with more interesting varying raid mechanics, they'd learn them and get that set in the first place. But they didn't because varying mechanics with at least certain personal responsibility within a more limited group is something they did not want to do. What else did you expect (like... really reasonably expect, not what you baselessly dreamed of) when that option you're now describing as more interesting wasn't good enough?

Good news though: those other more interesting and varying options are still available for everyone. They can even mix and match different parts of legendary gear between the modes to not get burned out by playing just one.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Sobx.1758
typo

[Zera.9435]

3 hours ago, rawisz.6439 said:

Numbers you put are for all 3 weight of armor, dont know if its mistake or you try to exagarate amount of essence needed.

Lets do quick math, if you want to decrease amount of grind and buy essence from TP (kryptis motivations) you get 3-7 essence for luring boss + 6-13 for killing boss + 19-31 for kryptis motivation  = 28-51 essences per rift. It means 450 t1, 180 t2 and 90 t3 rifts to collect all essences needed for 1 set of armor (avg 40essence/rift with motivation). After 1 month since release of expansions you get 15 t1,  6 t2 and 3 t3 rifts per day.  Is this some huge amount of grind? There is 6month since release of expansion till release of armor, it means that if you have gold you need only 2.5 t1 per day,  ~1 t2 per day and 1 t3 every 2nd day.  And its not even counting what you get extra from weekly rift hunting.

Yes, I know my numbers are for all 3 sets. I'm not exaggerating. It's what I'm working towards and I'm not the only one going for all 3 sets. Your numbers are also assuming you don't use any essences to craft motivations. I've been using mine to craft motivations so that I can try to be more efficient with my rift farming. Sure, I can buy motivations, but like most players I'm not sitting on thousands of gold to buy up all those motivations. What gold I used to have has gone to make motivations, so my farming is only going to grow slower as time goes on.

No idea where you're getting that you can get up to 51 per rift, most I've seen is like 40  total that one time, with the vast majority being around 33 or so. The other day I did 30 T3 rifts with motivations and barely got over 1000 essences (it was like 1012). That's about 33 per rift, so for 3600 (or 10800 for three sets) T3 essences it's about 105 (315) T3 rifts at that rate. Again, this is all assuming you have the motivations already. That does not include all the T1 and T2 you need just to make the motivations, nor the fact that you need the same number of ectos as you need T3 essences, plus the additional hundreds of ectos you need just to make the motivations.

Also, luring the boss event gives T1 essences regardless of tier lured, so you are only getting, by your numbers, 25-44 per T3 rift.

Yes, it's meant to be broken down over time, and maybe the very large numbers are just psyching me out, but they ARE large numbers. You may be one of those players who is sitting on tends of thousands of gold and able to just buy up all the motivations (or all the mats needed to make the motivations), but that's not most players.

And ALL of this is JUST for the 18 gifts of expertise.